Microsoft exec jabs at Apple, tweets drawing of 'converged' toaster and refrigerator

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 99
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Anome View Post



    SUVs? You mean those ridiculous vehicles people buy because they need 7 seats in case Tarquin gets involved in some kind of social activity? Or because they have a gravel drive? And that they then try to squeeze into the small vehicle parking spaces at the shopping centre? I've never seen anything that is so unfit for purpose, whether the purpose they are supposedly built for, or the purpose 98.7% of them are put to.

     

    The thing is, your opinion doesn't reflect the market popularity of multi-role products! Take the car market - SUVs are hugely popular. What about other categories? Here are some great examples of convergence where hybrid devices have proved tremendously popular -

     

    1. Radio alarm clock

    2. Smartphone camera

    3. Microwave oven

    4. Fridge freezer

    5. Mini / Micro HiFi systems

     

    Once a converged device is good enough for most people, it can quickly go mainstream. Tablet / laptop hybrids are no different in this respect.

  • Reply 82 of 99
    normmnormm Posts: 653member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wigby View Post

     

    The funny thing is Apple did copy some aspects of the Surface but that doesn't mean Apple was wrong. 


    My understanding was that MS had to license the keyboard cover patent from Apple when they came out with the Surface.  I also remember many Logitech and other keyboard covers being available for iPad long before the Surface.  So the great innovation you're talking about that Apple is copying now seems to be to sell a first party keyboard cover.

  • Reply 83 of 99
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TechLover View Post

     

     

     

    Did you ever own the original Xbox? It was absolutely, without a doubt revolutionary and innovative. Its influence on consoles, online gaming, as well as third party gaming controllers are all a signal that they were innovative. Let alone the games. Halo for example was amazing when it came out. Racing against your friends and strangers (who then became friends) while talking with them playing Project Gotham was fantastic.

     

     


     

    People have been doing that for years on PC before the Xbox.


    Did you not read my entire post? Where in the next paragraph I said:

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TechLover View Post

     

    This was a whole new world for lots of people, ushered in by Microsoft. Before that it was a relatively small community of online gamers on PC's with headsets. PC's running Windows mind you. So still within Microsofts wheel house. The difference was you didn't need to spend all that money on a computer.

     


  • Reply 84 of 99
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TechLover View Post

     

     

     

    Did you ever own the original Xbox? It was absolutely, without a doubt revolutionary and innovative. Its influence on consoles, online gaming, as well as third party gaming controllers are all a signal that they were innovative. Let alone the games. Halo for example was amazing when it came out. Racing against your friends and strangers (who then became friends) while talking with them playing Project Gotham was fantastic.

     

     


     

    People have been doing that for years on PC before the Xbox.


    I will also add that just because something existed for years doesn't mean a company can't innovate upon it, make it better and popularize it.

     

    See the iPod. Digital music players existed before it for years but Apple nailed it with the innovative iPod/iTunes combo.

    See the iPad. Tablets existed before it existed but Apple nailed it with the innovative interface, hardware and ecosystem.

    See the iPhone. Smartphones and even a few touchscreen smartphones existed before Apple innovated and nailed it with iPhone.

     

    It's the same with the Xbox. Online gaming existed for years on PC's but Microsoft innovated and nailed it with the Xbox and popularized online gaming for millions of people.

  • Reply 85 of 99
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Anome View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TechLover View Post



    Halo for example was amazing when it came out.


    Halo? You mean Marathon Infinity+1?

     


    SUVs? You mean those ridiculous vehicles people buy because they need 7 seats in case Tarquin gets involved in some kind of social activity? Or because they have a gravel drive? And that they then try to squeeze into the small vehicle parking spaces at the shopping centre? I've never seen anything that is so unfit for purpose, whether the purpose they are supposedly built for, or the purpose 98.7% of them are put to.



    So I guess they are a good analogy for tablet/PC hybrids.

    Marathon Infinity, that is a blast from the past. Thumbs up for that.

     

    Also some people just like driving bigger cars whether they need them or not. Gas mileage, need and parking be damned.

     

    I own two vehicles, one small-ish compared to the other one that is quite large. Sometimes I am just in the mood to drive the big one for no good reason at all other than its what I feel like at the moment.

  • Reply 86 of 99
    plovellplovell Posts: 825member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TechLover View Post

     
    You do realize that even Apple in their TOS reserves the right to track you and advertise to you accordingly. Just like Google does.


     

    No. Apple does reserve certain rights in the TOS. But It does NOT reserve the rights "[j]ust like Google does"

     

    There is a world of difference between the two.  In case you haven't noticed, Porsche announced today that it is supporting Apple CarPlay but will not support Android Auto because of Google demands for data

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/10/05/porsche-only-allows-apple-carplay-into-new-911-models-for-fear-of-android-auto-data-gathering?

     

    No more need be said.

  • Reply 87 of 99
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by plovell View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TechLover View Post

     
    You do realize that even Apple in their TOS reserves the right to track you and advertise to you accordingly. Just like Google does.


     

    No. Apple does reserve certain rights in the TOS. But It does NOT reserve the rights "[j]ust like Google does"

     

    There is a world of difference between the two.  In case you haven't noticed, Porsche announced today that it is supporting Apple CarPlay but will not support Android Auto because of Google demands for data

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/10/05/porsche-only-allows-apple-carplay-into-new-911-models-for-fear-of-android-auto-data-gathering?

     

    No more need be said.


    I will just leave these links here for your edification.

     

    http://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/

     

    https://www.google.com/intl/en-GB/policies/privacy/

     

    Please read them both, they are not that different.

     

    What Google wanted from Porshe in terms of their car data is a different story entirely and not what I was talking about.

     

    The post that you quoted from me was in rebuttal to Sog35 saying that Android as a platform is spyware/adware.

     

    Individuals are not car companies. I would appreciate it if you please do not conflate two entirely different things with each other.

     

    Thanks.

  • Reply 88 of 99
    idreyidrey Posts: 647member
    So, they trying to sell a phone that can replace your pc and tablet,
    Than a tablet that is meant to replace your laptop and
    Than they try to sell a laptop? What the hell I my missing?
    Do they know what direction are they trying to take?
    Other than trying to turn into Apple.
  • Reply 89 of 99
    Apple had a powered keyboard attachment with the very first iPad. (Which, in fact, I still like and use.) Shortly after, 3rd party companies introduced keypad covers. Apple also introduced covers with magnetic catches. Microsoft's powered cover with magnetic catches wasn't anything new. The thing that was new was a tablet that tried to squish in a full version of Windows so that it could run desk top apps that didn't work well on tablets. And that's what Cook was referring too in his comment about mashing up. So far, Apple hasn't tried to force OSX into a tablet.

    And so far, the Surface line is a big yawn.
  • Reply 90 of 99
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mackay Bell View Post



    And so far, the Surface line is a big yawn.

     

    If $1.1 billion revenue is a yawn, it would, indeed, be a big one. 

  • Reply 91 of 99
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    If $1.1 billion revenue is a yawn, it would, indeed, be a big one. 

    When Apple's iPad profits for a quarter far exceed all the revenue generated by a fridge-toaster over several years, then, yes, it's a yawn. Note, MS reported that as the Surface plus accessories, whereas Apple has an entirely different accounting segment for accessories, which also exceeded the Surface + accessories revenue.

    Additionally, $1 billion for revenues is a drop in the bucket for either the PC or tablet market segments, and a mere water molecule in size when you combine the two like MS did.
  • Reply 92 of 99
    plovellplovell Posts: 825member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TechLover View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by plovell View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TechLover View Post

     
    You do realize that even Apple in their TOS reserves the right to track you and advertise to you accordingly. Just like Google does.


     

    No. Apple does reserve certain rights in the TOS. But It does NOT reserve the rights "[j]ust like Google does"

     

    There is a world of difference between the two.  In case you haven't noticed, Porsche announced today that it is supporting Apple CarPlay but will not support Android Auto because of Google demands for data

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/10/05/porsche-only-allows-apple-carplay-into-new-911-models-for-fear-of-android-auto-data-gathering?

     

    No more need be said.


    I will just leave these links here for your edification.

     

    http://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/

     

    https://www.google.com/intl/en-GB/policies/privacy/

     

    Please read them both, they are not that different.

     

    What Google wanted from Porshe in terms of their car data is a different story entirely and not what I was talking about.

     

    The post that you quoted from me was in rebuttal to Sog35 saying that Android as a platform is spyware/adware.

     

    Individuals are not car companies. I would appreciate it if you please do not conflate two entirely different things with each other.

     

    Thanks.


     

    If you think that they are "not that different" then you clearly have not read and compared them.

     

    For example, where in Apple's ToS do you find "If you have a Google Account, we may display your Profile name, Profile photo, and actions you take on Google or on third-party applications connected to your Google Account (such as +1’s, reviews you write and comments you post) in our services, including displaying in ads and other commercial contexts"

     

    Or "Our automated systems analyse your content (including emails) to provide you personally relevant product features, such as customised search results, tailored advertising and spam and malware detection."

  • Reply 93 of 99
    aquaticaquatic Posts: 5,602member

    I have wanted a MacBook Touch since the first iPad. 

     

    And a blank slab you could plug a phone into running full OS X like the Asus Padfone. With optional slider QWERTY phone model.

     

    In fact a laptop docking station would be nice. The Duo was awesome.

     

    Why will none of this happen? AAPL makes more money selling you 3 devices instead of one. 

     

    Good business model for now. But watch out. Microsoft is doing interesting things with Surface and this new Holo thing. And cortana. The problem for now is Microsoft software. I don't think they have written a single good application except Microsoft Word 5 for Mac. Windows 8 and 10 are just stupid. OS X is great. Mac laptops are freakin' awesome. But... I would not be surprised to see Surfaces start selling. Windows Phone... notsomuch. Yet. But Apple should be thinking about this longterm. Now, it is better for AAPL to sell multiple devices to you. In 5-10 years, maybe not.

  • Reply 94 of 99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by plovell View Post

     

    If you think that they are "not that different" then you clearly have not read and compared them.

     

    For example, where in Apple's ToS do you find "If you have a Google Account, we may display your Profile name, Profile photo, and actions you take on Google or on third-party applications connected to your Google Account (such as +1’s, reviews you write and comments you post) in our services, including displaying in ads and other commercial contexts"

     

    Or "Our automated systems analyse your content (including emails) to provide you personally relevant product features, such as customised search results, tailored advertising and spam and malware detection."

     

    Troll.


    I had a feeling this was going to happen. You would scour them and try to find any differences without realizing that they really are largely similar. They are far more similar than not.

     

    Where they are largely different is where they refer to different products and services. 

     

    For your first example Apple does not offer a product or service like Google+ or YouTube. And you can easily opt in or out of it entirely. You would see that if you clicked the link in Googles TOS (that you just read) that takes you here: https://plus.google.com/settings/endorsements

     

    For your second example Google's all encompassing privacy policy does go a step further than Apple does:

     

    "Apple’s websites, online services, interactive applications, email messages, and advertisements may use “cookies” and other technologies such as pixel tags and web beacons. These technologies help us better understand user behavior, tell us which parts of our websites people have visited, and facilitate and measure the effectiveness of advertisements and web searches."

     

    And:

     

    "We also use personal information to help us create, develop, operate, deliver, and improve our products, services, content and advertising, and for loss prevention and anti-fraud purposes."

     

    I suppose the main difference is I don't see where Apple mentions that they do any kind of spam or malware filtering. But I find that hard to believe that they don't. They must have some sort of automated system that analyzes the content of your email for spam.

     

    In addition your second example might also pertain to things like Google Now or something like Siri. A couple of examples would be how Google Now knows flight information and automatically gives a reminder based on scanning email, or automatically tracks shipping of packages from scanning email. If I ask Siri to find all of my emails from UPS for example, it would be impossible to do that without an automated system scanning all my email. 

     

    Regarding Siri, if you want to read up on that you would have to go to the separate iOS TOS where Apple says:

     

    "When you use Siri or Dictation, the things you say will be recorded and sent to Apple in order to convert what you say into text and to process your requests. Your device will also send Apple other information, such as your name and nickname; the names, nicknames, and relationship with you (e.g., “my dad”) of your address book contacts; song names in your collection, and HomeKit-enabled devices in your home (e.g., “living room lights”) (collectively, your “User Data”). All of this data is used to help Siri and Dictation understand you better and recognize what you say"

     

    "By using Siri or Dictation, you agree and consent to Apple’s and its subsidiaries’ and agents’ transmission, collection, maintenance, processing, and use of this information, including your voice input and User Data, to provide and improve Siri, Dictation, and dictation functionality in other Apple products and services."

     

    And I am not trolling you or anyone. Not trolling in the slightest. Just trying to have a reasonable conversation, maybe learn something and maybe educate.

     

    Edited for typo.

  • Reply 95 of 99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    When Apple's iPad profits for a quarter far exceed all the revenue generated by a fridge-toaster over several years, then, yes, it's a yawn. Note, MS reported that as the Surface plus accessories, whereas Apple has an entirely different accounting segment for accessories, which also exceeded the Surface + accessories revenue.



    Additionally, $1 billion for revenues is a drop in the bucket for either the PC or tablet market segments, and a mere water molecule in size when you combine the two like MS did.

     

    The yawn is that while Apple is continuing to lead, iPad revenue is dropping. The peak is past, and what's interesting is what business is growing. One such business is Tablet PCs, and Surface revenue is increasing. I guess when Apple invents the tablet PC in a year or two, then it will be the next big thing?

     

    Whatever. My finances are diversified enough that I really don't care who has a healthier outlook. What's interesting to me is how the hardware available supports my business and activities. For the kinds of demos we are doing, an iPad is a toy, and a Surface Pro is a tool. People doing actual production work have to do so on PC workstations (mostly Alienware these days), but the biz dev folks make great use of tablet PCs.

  • Reply 96 of 99
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    When Apple's iPad profits for a quarter far exceed all the revenue generated by a fridge-toaster over several years, then, yes, it's a yawn. Note, MS reported that as the Surface plus accessories, whereas Apple has an entirely different accounting segment for accessories, which also exceeded the Surface + accessories revenue.



    Additionally, $1 billion for revenues is a drop in the bucket for either the PC or tablet market segments, and a mere water molecule in size when you combine the two like MS did.

     

    The yawn is that while Apple is continuing to lead, iPad revenue is dropping. The peak is past, and what's interesting is what business is growing. One such business is Tablet PCs, and Surface revenue is increasing. I guess when Apple invents the tablet PC in a year or two, then it will be the next big thing?

     

    Whatever. My finances are diversified enough that I really don't care who has a healthier outlook. What's interesting to me is how the hardware available supports my business and activities. For the kinds of demos we are doing, an iPad is a toy, and a Surface Pro is a tool. People doing actual production work have to do so on PC workstations (mostly Alienware these days), but the biz dev folks make great use of tablet PCs.


    You make some good points and I don't disagree.

     

    It will be interesting over the next year or so to see if there is a sustained uptick in iPad sales due to the new iPad Pro. With it's new larger form factor, pencil/screen combo and Apple made keyboard I wouldn't be surprised if it fuels some serious sales. We shall see. It does look good for artists.

     

    Which leads me to your good point about needing the right machine for the job. If all you do is write words for a living, then an iPad with a keyboard might be all you need. Or if all you do with a computer is check email, consume content, and do some light gaming and light browsing, then an iPad (and lots of other tablets) usually works pretty well.

     

    But last time I checked you can't make an iPad app using an iPad. For that you need Xcode on a Mac. Maybe some day Apple will let you do serious business like make apps for an iPad/iPhone/Mac etc. using only an iPad. Apple can't be that far away, for all of the "desktop class" ARM processor talk we hear from them. They must be thinking about using the "desktop class" software to go along with it to get the hard work done. 

     

    Anyway I am mostly echoing what you said but just felt like chiming in.

  • Reply 97 of 99
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    I thought it was a cute jab, nothing evil about it just fun. I don't think of the iPad Pro as a convertible though, just a bigger version of the iPad a tablet. Plus, iPads have always had custom keyboards so it's not like their being hypocritical. A person in the market for a convertible laptop/tablet I don't think would even consider an iPad as a viable option. Unless of course that person was an artist or music creation enthusiasts.
  • Reply 98 of 99
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    The yawn is that while Apple is continuing to lead, iPad revenue is dropping. The peak is past, and what's interesting is what business is growing. One such business is Tablet PCs, and Surface revenue is increasing. I guess when Apple invents the tablet PC in a year or two, then it will be the next big thing?

    Whatever. My finances are diversified enough that I really don't care who has a healthier outlook. What's interesting to me is how the hardware available supports my business and activities. For the kinds of demos we are doing, an iPad is a toy, and a Surface Pro is a tool. People doing actual production work have to do so on PC workstations (mostly Alienware these days), but the biz dev folks make great use of tablet PCs.
    As a programmer and musician, I find that the Surface Pro can pretty much do it all and do it very well. Though I honestly don't use their keyboard much. When in tablet mode I have no problem using the virtual keyboard and when it's sitting on my desk I prefer using Microsofts Wedge Keyboard and Mouse combo, like Apple's bluetooth keyboard and mouse, it's just a better typing experience. I'm also using an external monitor. I just placed an order for the new Surface Pro, i7, 16GB, 256GB model, the expense to jump to 512GB didn't make much sense, since I'll be using my new SanDisk 200GB SD Card. That and I really don't keep many files local anymore but store them in OneDrive. That way every computer has the same exact data and organization. In fact, most of the folders in the home directory are just links to OneDrive.
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