To those who think Jony Ive's amazing design is going to blow all the other car companies away, there's not much freedom in automobile design because the shape (how streamlined it is) has a major effect on gas usage or battery efficiency. That is why all cars look the same. I predict that Apple's car (when it eventually comes out) will look hardly any different from a Tesla.
As Jobs and Ive have said so many times, design in not just about what it looks and feels like, design is how it works.
I would say Tesla cult is stronger than Apple's (now). Would you?
Revenue-wise and cult-wise, one six-figure Tesla purchase outweighs a ton of four and five-figure Apple purchases. Six figures is a serious commitment to a vendor and product.
If Apple is able to wring 30%+ margins from five-figure car prices, bully for them. I'll believe it when I see it.
Achieving things is what counts, not making a profit, but I'll give you a ring.
you're the one claiming Apple won't be able to achieve this because they don't have Musk's magic ability to see into successful car product development ala Jobs, despite their proven design talent, manufacturing and inventory management mastery, and deep pockets to hire the best. I find that odd.
I just read Musk's wiki and can't find where he's personally building cars. in fact I can't find where he personally engineered anything. his career started as a web guy with his brother and funded by his father.
Yeah, I just read it too. I was surprised to learn that he was not the founder of either PayPal or Tesla. He dropped out of Stanford after two days. Divorced, remarried, then divorced and remarried his original wife. There is a lot of revealing history in the Wiki. Everyone should go read it before commenting.
Tesla cars are sweet! Not sweet enough for me to drop 100k on one, but sweet nevertheless. I'm unsure which demographic Apple would target, being the "luxury brand" that they are.
Wonder if he jumps around like a monkey at company meetings too, twisting his ankle while he's at it
I ..... Love ...... This ...... Company ..... YEAAAAHHH!!
Oh, I miss Ballmer sometimes...
Just watch LA Clipper games...
dude is so butthurt. He won't allow his employees to have Apple products at work
Its really fun to make fun of Ballmer, even though it's low hanging fruit because he is such an emotional buffoon and always comes across as goofball. Too easy.
But the photo in that second pic was a great game and the Clippers won to push a game 7 and went on to win the series against San Antonio.
In general, fans of sports almost always look incredibly idiotic in photos and video. Its just part of the game.
Please explain how Microsoft can develop software for Apple if they don't let their employees use Apple products at work. I would imagine that Apple has a few Microsoft products being used for development, testing, etc.
For personal use? I bet it's seriously frowned upon.
Just like it is frowned upon to own anything but Apple gear for personal use if you work at Apple.
If you work at Ford its frowned upon to drive a Chevy and vice versa. If you drive a delivery truck for Pepsi its frowned upon to be seen drinking a Coke on the clock. And on and on.
These kinds of things are nothing new and are not remarkable.
Never said that Apple couldn't do it in principle, I only doubt they can do it in practice, that's why I stated that they have to prove themselves and Musk already has.
Concluding that one IT person is successful building cars (which I agree with) doesn't make it a law.
Musk success comes from a very special insight in this kind of technology, similar, I think to Steve Jobs insight in the future of some consumer appliances.
Currently I haven't seen such insight from anyone at Apple.
The facts are Musk has not proven he is able to run a car company that runs a profit.
Anyone can sell cars if they sell them at a $30k loss per car.
Wake me up when Musk turns a profit and proves his business model is legit.
How much profit does Amazon make? It doesn't appear they will be going out of business anytime soon.
Wake me up when there are no more government bailouts for car companies, airlines, financial institutions, entire countries, etc.
Elon Musk is building technology that is shaping the future. If he wants to give his opinion on a company making really well marketed consumer goods, I think he's entitled.
So you think Apple is successful based on marketing (only)? Apple's marketing is good, even great, but not that much better the competition (that would reflect such a great success versus the competition).
The fact is that their products are well engineered and they are building new technology through great engineering and R&D. They also have a top notch design department that follows engineering practices and they have leaders who understand how to run a business, and are not just bean counters.
The facts are Musk has not proven he is able to run a car company that runs a profit.
Anyone can sell cars if they sell them at a $30k loss per car.
Wake me up when Musk turns a profit and proves his business model is legit.
You really have no idea how this works, do you? Tesla does not make money now and will not make any money for the next few years. If/when the Model 3 comes out they will begin selling in volume and then they will start making a profit. Musk has done to EVs what Jobs did to cellphones - make them sexy. Tesla has a phenomenal brand right now. They sell every car they can make and they do not advertise at all.
If you think they're going out of business anytime soon you are delusional. Musk is trying to change the world and help us move away from fossil fuels, and there are plenty of people that want to see him succeed.
Elon Musk is building technology that is shaping the future. If he wants to give his opinion on a company making really well marketed consumer goods, I think he's entitled.
So you think Apple is successful based on marketing (only)? Apple's marketing is good, even great, but not that much better the competition (that would reflect such a great success versus the competition).
The fact is that their products are well engineered and they are building new technology through great engineering and R&D. They also have a top notch design department that follows engineering practices and they have leaders who understand how to run a business, and are not just bean counters.
In my mind it comes down to something like price, utility, and design.
Want a super-powerful laptop that is cheap? Get ready to lug around 10 pounds of gear. Want the latest super-awesome phone that is thin and light? Better get out your wallet. Want a somewhat affordable laptop that is light and looks great? Get ready to give up some of that utility.
For the most part you get to pick two.
Apple for the most part makes a product that is functional for most people, with good design that most people like, at a price that people who can afford it are willing to pay.
The rest of the market is full of products for people who pick two. For the most part it seems anyway.
Yeah, I just read it too. I was surprised to learn that he was not the founder of either PayPal or Tesla. He dropped out of Stanford after two days. Divorced, remarried, then divorced and remarried his original wife. There is a lot of revealing history in the Wiki. Everyone should go read it before commenting.
if you're being snarky, my point still stands -- no engineering degree. nowhere could I find he's personally engineering anything at SpaceX or Tesla. so the claim that he is an engineer while Jobs was just a salesman remains bunk.
You win the award for most dilusional post of the year.
1. PayPal essentially created online banking. He sold if years ago so Paypal's current state has nothing to do with Musk.
2. SpaceX is the only rocket company that actually builds their technology from scratch. I think you have SpaceX confused with Boeing and the other dinosaurs.
3. Tesla makes about 30% margin on their cars. They reinvest their money into R&D and the GigaFactory.
Please do a little research before spewing your fake analysis.
Huh! Built from scratch? It's base on 50 years of engineering elsewhere.
The tech is old and proven. That's why Nasa can get out of it; it's not cutting edge science or even cutting edge engineeringI
it's an engineering optimisation problem. If it was cutting edge, you'd need a hell of lot more money to do it.
Also, when Tesla shits his pants an go broke in 5 years, come and see me and talk to me about your little hero.
BTW, Tesla's knowledge of engineering is nearly zero, paypall and Facebook are about the same tech level, pretty low.
He's a fracking daddy's boy born with a silver spoon (a bit like trump). That breeds a lot of ego that needs to be constantly fed like a beast.
His interviews are worse and worse with time; he should just shut the hell up.
Elon Musk is the only one talking. Elon talked about hiring away Apple engineers while Apple was struggling to hire Tesla engineers even with offering a $260,000 salary.Then a little later Elon Musk again talked about Apple's successful hiring of Tesla engineers was a fraction of the number of engineers Tesla was hiring away from Apple. Now Elon Musk is talking about Apple hiring the engineers fired from Tesla...the engineers who could not make it at Tesla. Without saying anything publicly about its car plans outside of Car Play, Apple has the leading EV manufacturer in the USA if not the world, talking a great deal about Apple and Tesla engineer hirings. This makes me think Elon Musk wants to focus more on cracking how to get humankind successfully to and from Mars than continuing to focus on EVs. He has done the hard, exciting work with EVs. The ball is in motion and even though there is much work remaining to be done, that work is refinement of what has been done. Like a lot of engineers, the refinement part becomes excruciatingly boring. Elon Musk does not handle boring well, in my opinion. Other car manufacturers are not making anything as exciting as Tesla. Apple has become THE company that WILL elevate the design, usability, etc. of EVs in the eyes of many. Yes, I believe Elon Musk is ready to pass the baton to Apple. Time will tell if I am guessing correctly.
What has he done? Almost everything he's done as been done internally at most big car company's except their not selling expensive showpiece at a loss, so its mostly put in cheaper cars with smaller motors.
He's fracking big a ego boosting himself, but I don'T think anything he"s done is woth the "worship".
Jobs was a salesman, Musk is a genius engineer. Jobs was great with his vision and speaking abilities. Musk has the same vision but actually creates the product instead of pushing others to do it.
He'S a fracking engineer or a genius; he'S a salesment... And btw, I am an computer engineer....
Please explain how Microsoft can develop software for Apple if they don't let their employees use Apple products at work. I would imagine that Apple has a few Microsoft products being used for development, testing, etc.
For personal use? I bet it's seriously frowned upon.
I was talking about Balmer not letting LA Clipper employees use Apple products at work. Balmer owns the LA Clippers.
Obviously Ballmer (its Ballmer, not Balmer btw) owns the Clippers.
My previous statement still stands. He is a Microsoft guy in the blood and wants the organization that he purchased to reflect that. Can you really blame him for feeling that way?
Lets say you made billions at company A and then left (pushed out/fired whatever you want to call it) but still love company A. It would stand to reason that since you still love company A, you would do everything in your power to still support company A when you purchased and started to run company B.
I don't see why this brand of fanboy-ism is so hard to for you to understand.
Even I see a handful, in the very small town in which I live (admittedly, the own is a tad well-off). That's impressive. I think they're very beautifully designed on the outside (except for the chrome).
But the inside -- especially the dashboard -- looks like the tech set of a 1980s movie. Fugly.
The interior is what turned me off from Model S. The value of the car went down for me from that point.
Comments
To those who think Jony Ive's amazing design is going to blow all the other car companies away, there's not much freedom in automobile design because the shape (how streamlined it is) has a major effect on gas usage or battery efficiency. That is why all cars look the same. I predict that Apple's car (when it eventually comes out) will look hardly any different from a Tesla.
As Jobs and Ive have said so many times, design in not just about what it looks and feels like, design is how it works.
Your too much focused on money. Read my comment again, never said that Musk wasn't interested in money.
I would say Tesla cult is stronger than Apple's (now). Would you?
Revenue-wise and cult-wise, one six-figure Tesla purchase outweighs a ton of four and five-figure Apple purchases. Six figures is a serious commitment to a vendor and product.
If Apple is able to wring 30%+ margins from five-figure car prices, bully for them. I'll believe it when I see it.
I'd rather have a P85D than an iWatch...
Achieving things is what counts, not making a profit, but I'll give you a ring.
you're the one claiming Apple won't be able to achieve this because they don't have Musk's magic ability to see into successful car product development ala Jobs, despite their proven design talent, manufacturing and inventory management mastery, and deep pockets to hire the best. I find that odd.
no ring for you.
I just read Musk's wiki and can't find where he's personally building cars. in fact I can't find where he personally engineered anything. his career started as a web guy with his brother and funded by his father.
Yeah, I just read it too. I was surprised to learn that he was not the founder of either PayPal or Tesla. He dropped out of Stanford after two days. Divorced, remarried, then divorced and remarried his original wife. There is a lot of revealing history in the Wiki. Everyone should go read it before commenting.
He sold if years ago so Paypal's current state has nothing to do with Musk.
He did not sell PayPal. He was ousted before it was sold to eBay. He did profit from the shares he held.
Sounds like Steve Ballmer.
Wonder if he jumps around like a monkey at company meetings too, twisting his ankle while he's at it
I ..... Love ...... This ...... Company ..... YEAAAAHHH!!
Oh, I miss Ballmer sometimes...
Just watch LA Clipper games...
dude is so butthurt. He won't allow his employees to have Apple products at work
Its really fun to make fun of Ballmer, even though it's low hanging fruit because he is such an emotional buffoon and always comes across as goofball. Too easy.
But the photo in that second pic was a great game and the Clippers won to push a game 7 and went on to win the series against San Antonio.
In general, fans of sports almost always look incredibly idiotic in photos and video. Its just part of the game.
Please explain how Microsoft can develop software for Apple if they don't let their employees use Apple products at work. I would imagine that Apple has a few Microsoft products being used for development, testing, etc.
For personal use? I bet it's seriously frowned upon.
Just like it is frowned upon to own anything but Apple gear for personal use if you work at Apple.
If you work at Ford its frowned upon to drive a Chevy and vice versa. If you drive a delivery truck for Pepsi its frowned upon to be seen drinking a Coke on the clock. And on and on.
These kinds of things are nothing new and are not remarkable.
I was talking about the facts.
Never said that Apple couldn't do it in principle, I only doubt they can do it in practice, that's why I stated that they have to prove themselves and Musk already has.
Concluding that one IT person is successful building cars (which I agree with) doesn't make it a law.
Musk success comes from a very special insight in this kind of technology, similar, I think to Steve Jobs insight in the future of some consumer appliances.
Currently I haven't seen such insight from anyone at Apple.
The facts are Musk has not proven he is able to run a car company that runs a profit.
Anyone can sell cars if they sell them at a $30k loss per car.
Wake me up when Musk turns a profit and proves his business model is legit.
How much profit does Amazon make? It doesn't appear they will be going out of business anytime soon.
Wake me up when there are no more government bailouts for car companies, airlines, financial institutions, entire countries, etc.
Elon Musk is building technology that is shaping the future. If he wants to give his opinion on a company making really well marketed consumer goods, I think he's entitled.
So you think Apple is successful based on marketing (only)? Apple's marketing is good, even great, but not that much better the competition (that would reflect such a great success versus the competition).
The fact is that their products are well engineered and they are building new technology through great engineering and R&D. They also have a top notch design department that follows engineering practices and they have leaders who understand how to run a business, and are not just bean counters.
You really have no idea how this works, do you? Tesla does not make money now and will not make any money for the next few years. If/when the Model 3 comes out they will begin selling in volume and then they will start making a profit. Musk has done to EVs what Jobs did to cellphones - make them sexy. Tesla has a phenomenal brand right now. They sell every car they can make and they do not advertise at all.
If you think they're going out of business anytime soon you are delusional. Musk is trying to change the world and help us move away from fossil fuels, and there are plenty of people that want to see him succeed.
Elon Musk is building technology that is shaping the future. If he wants to give his opinion on a company making really well marketed consumer goods, I think he's entitled.
So you think Apple is successful based on marketing (only)? Apple's marketing is good, even great, but not that much better the competition (that would reflect such a great success versus the competition).
The fact is that their products are well engineered and they are building new technology through great engineering and R&D. They also have a top notch design department that follows engineering practices and they have leaders who understand how to run a business, and are not just bean counters.
In my mind it comes down to something like price, utility, and design.
Want a super-powerful laptop that is cheap? Get ready to lug around 10 pounds of gear. Want the latest super-awesome phone that is thin and light? Better get out your wallet. Want a somewhat affordable laptop that is light and looks great? Get ready to give up some of that utility.
For the most part you get to pick two.
Apple for the most part makes a product that is functional for most people, with good design that most people like, at a price that people who can afford it are willing to pay.
The rest of the market is full of products for people who pick two. For the most part it seems anyway.
if you're being snarky, my point still stands -- no engineering degree. nowhere could I find he's personally engineering anything at SpaceX or Tesla. so the claim that he is an engineer while Jobs was just a salesman remains bunk.
if you care to take down this point, please do.
You win the award for most dilusional post of the year.
1. PayPal essentially created online banking. He sold if years ago so Paypal's current state has nothing to do with Musk.
2. SpaceX is the only rocket company that actually builds their technology from scratch. I think you have SpaceX confused with Boeing and the other dinosaurs.
3. Tesla makes about 30% margin on their cars. They reinvest their money into R&D and the GigaFactory.
Please do a little research before spewing your fake analysis.
Huh! Built from scratch? It's base on 50 years of engineering elsewhere.
The tech is old and proven. That's why Nasa can get out of it; it's not cutting edge science or even cutting edge engineeringI
it's an engineering optimisation problem. If it was cutting edge, you'd need a hell of lot more money to do it.
Also, when Tesla shits his pants an go broke in 5 years, come and see me and talk to me about your little hero.
BTW, Tesla's knowledge of engineering is nearly zero, paypall and Facebook are about the same tech level, pretty low.
He's a fracking daddy's boy born with a silver spoon (a bit like trump). That breeds a lot of ego that needs to be constantly fed like a beast.
His interviews are worse and worse with time; he should just shut the hell up.
Elon Musk is the only one talking. Elon talked about hiring away Apple engineers while Apple was struggling to hire Tesla engineers even with offering a $260,000 salary.Then a little later Elon Musk again talked about Apple's successful hiring of Tesla engineers was a fraction of the number of engineers Tesla was hiring away from Apple. Now Elon Musk is talking about Apple hiring the engineers fired from Tesla...the engineers who could not make it at Tesla. Without saying anything publicly about its car plans outside of Car Play, Apple has the leading EV manufacturer in the USA if not the world, talking a great deal about Apple and Tesla engineer hirings. This makes me think Elon Musk wants to focus more on cracking how to get humankind successfully to and from Mars than continuing to focus on EVs. He has done the hard, exciting work with EVs. The ball is in motion and even though there is much work remaining to be done, that work is refinement of what has been done. Like a lot of engineers, the refinement part becomes excruciatingly boring. Elon Musk does not handle boring well, in my opinion. Other car manufacturers are not making anything as exciting as Tesla. Apple has become THE company that WILL elevate the design, usability, etc. of EVs in the eyes of many. Yes, I believe Elon Musk is ready to pass the baton to Apple. Time will tell if I am guessing correctly.
What has he done? Almost everything he's done as been done internally at most big car company's except their not selling expensive showpiece at a loss, so its mostly put in cheaper cars with smaller motors.
He's fracking big a ego boosting himself, but I don'T think anything he"s done is woth the "worship".
Jobs was a salesman, Musk is a genius engineer. Jobs was great with his vision and speaking abilities. Musk has the same vision but actually creates the product instead of pushing others to do it.
He'S a fracking engineer or a genius; he'S a salesment... And btw, I am an computer engineer....
Please explain how Microsoft can develop software for Apple if they don't let their employees use Apple products at work. I would imagine that Apple has a few Microsoft products being used for development, testing, etc.
For personal use? I bet it's seriously frowned upon.
I was talking about Balmer not letting LA Clipper employees use Apple products at work. Balmer owns the LA Clippers.
Obviously Ballmer (its Ballmer, not Balmer btw) owns the Clippers.
My previous statement still stands. He is a Microsoft guy in the blood and wants the organization that he purchased to reflect that. Can you really blame him for feeling that way?
Lets say you made billions at company A and then left (pushed out/fired whatever you want to call it) but still love company A. It would stand to reason that since you still love company A, you would do everything in your power to still support company A when you purchased and started to run company B.
I don't see why this brand of fanboy-ism is so hard to for you to understand.
The interior is what turned me off from Model S. The value of the car went down for me from that point.