Neil deGrasse Tyson had said the evidence you should trust the least in court is eyewitness account. It's not scientific. He's a very smart guy.
I agree with Mr. Tyson. The main reason why eyewitness accounts are not reliable is because the witness often fabricates their own reality and introduces their own biases. Or is led to state something they didn't actually see.
I will not dispute that ones own brain can be awfully deceiving to itself.
But for as cheap as a 4K set is compared to the others. Even if I am being deceived. That is pretty cheap deception on the margin over the life of the television. And if I purchase a 4K television today it will play 4K content in the future. No chance of a 1080 set doing that.
Of course the 4k will look better than the 1080p sets at a store:
1. The store sets it up that way so you buy the much more expensive 4k sets.
2. The 4k sets have a wider color gamut
3. The 4k sets have better contrast and black levels
4. The 4k sets have better brightness and white levels
5. The 4k sets are running a superior source material
6. The 4k sets have superior glass and panel quality
The only way you can truly tell if 4k resolution makes a difference if you have 2 TV's that have identical components except one has a 1080p panel and one has a 4k panel. And they need to be using the same source material and calibrated exactly the same.
What you see in stores is the EXACT opposite of that.
IMO, the difference you are seeing at the store at normal viewing distances is the superior components in the 4k set that have NOTHING to do with resolution.
I won't dispute reason #1, some stores more than likely do this. Although no decent self respecting A/V store does.
Reasons #2 through #6 are reason enough to go for the 4K set considering its not that much more expensive these days. Especially if you average it out over the life of a TV.
It's like buying something from Apple. Might be a little bit more expensive up front but it will serve you better for years.
No doubt the Netflix 4k stream is better than their 1080p stream. They do that so they can charge you MORE for 4k access.
But what if Netflix increased the bitrate of their 1080p stream? It would be much better and even be close to Bluray quality.
My whole point is Netflix could have easily just increased the quality of its 1080p streams (since they look significantly worse than Bluray) by increasing bitrate instead of giving us a low bit rate 4k. My point is 1080p streaming is not even CLOSE to being maximized and yet we are already moving to 4k. The reason is they want to charge you more for 4k.
I dont begrudge them charging me a little extra for a premium product.
The difference is some people are constantly bickering and bitching about Apple.
They are the best. Just because they don't meet your expectations does not mean they aren't.
I agree that Apple has the best products overall - but that doesn't mean that every single feature of every single device and every single app is "the best".
Most people agree that the Apple products are "the best" - and so they purchase them! The problem comes when they find a feature missing that they would like or some specific functionality that works better in another app or on another device and they comment on it....
They are completely valid comments but some people can't take it if Apple is criticized even a little bit and they spew crap like "take it or leave it" or "go buy something else if you don't like it". It's rude and its non-productive. Sure - Apple products are "the best" - but it doesn't mean that they are perfect. Most of them can be improved - so why do people get so upset when other people want to talk about how to improve them??? I mean it's one thing if someone jumps on and starts spewing negativity and denigrating everything in general with nothing but opinion to back them up - but I've seen people get slammed in here just for politely expressing that they wished some thing worked differently - or even just for asking "why" something works a certain way.... And that's just wrong. People should be able to express their opinion and make suggestions for improvements without being told to "go buy an andrioid". We need to save harsh reactions like that for the obvious trolls - not for individuals with genuine suggestions/observations/questions....
That's a pretty shitty response. I think it's a completely legitimate question.
explaining how product design works and asking you to vote with your dollars is a "shitty response"? my, my. somebody isn't equipped to deal with reality...
as I said -- decisions will be made for you by any manufacturer. Apple picks privacy. you want something closer to google decisions. so -- what's stopping you from having it? buy it. but don't be naive about the fact that every manufacturer will make decisions for you, their customer. you can only align yourself with the one that appeals to you. sounds like that isn't Apple.
Apple should of had a base of 32GB and everyone knows that. You've even said so yourself a few times.
Most people I assist when upgrading their device are perfectly fine* in the 16GB capacity perhaps a 12Mpx camera, 4K video (if they even turn that one), and whatever size iOS 10 will be, will cave that, but for the basic user and, from what I hear, corporate use where it's locked down to specific apps and not for recreational use, 16GB is if fine.
* By perfectly fine, I mean using less than half their available capacity.
Gee, it's a good thing Apple doesn't offer an App Store that allows people to replace all the system apps with third party solutions...
Gee... You know your sarcasm actually supports my theory right? Since Apple will now offer an App Store for the AppleTV, if any of those Apps offered 4K, they might draw users away from the Apple Apps that don't. Since the AppleTV doesn't do 4K, none of the third party Apps will be able to offer it ahead of Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon
They continued offering optical drives on Macs long after they stopped selling Apple software on disc. I mean, if that was the concern, why open up the AppleTV at all? Just continue putting content only they want on there and keep telling those they don't like to get lost!
The A8 has h265 support but no iTunes content for it; it's used for FaceTime and only between other A8 devices. Why add support for something hardly used? Could it be...future proofing?
Optical drives? Continuing to provide legacy hardware or software is a lot different than adding tech they aren't ready for.
You may be right... Future proofing may be their intent... so maybe they will turn on 4k on all the devices that will support it. Of course this again supports my theory that "Once they have 4K widely available on iTunes they will add it to AppleTV."
Exactly! It's not about whether or not they COLLECT user data - it's more about how they use it...and about giving users the ability to opt-out. Google collects data for nefarious purposes. They sell it, they use it to target you and who knows what else - and this is all spelled out in their privacy agreements. To differentiate themselves from Google, Apple has gone to great lengths to NOT collect user data...but they could just as easily differentiate themselves by collecting the data (with permission) and being very clear and controlled about HOW THEY USE IT... If the Apple privacy agreement said that the data would ONLY ever be used to improve the services they provide to you, that it was secure while stored in Apple Systems and that it was strictly opt-in....they would be welcome to my data. The concerns with this approach though are that no matter how noble Apples intentions are - if the data is stored in their systems - governments can force them to release it - and that's not a concern if the data doesn't exist in the first place...
no. even collecting personal data is something I don't want. corporations get hacked, can be bought out, and be spied on.
collecting it is the problem. pretending it isn't is naive.
As much as I dislike ranting and whining, I also feel the 3 reasons you've given aren't super compelling.
I bought a 4K LG with the WebOS 2.0 smart features earlier this year. Of course I'd prefer an Apple interface, but the LG WebOS is perfectly serviceable and the price was pretty reasonable. And if I have one, 4K is not something only a tiny percentage of people can afford, in fact I feel soon 4K will completely replace 1080p just like 720p was replaced several years ago.
There is 4K content just waiting for delivery. The NBC show The Blacklist is available via Netflix in 4K and it is pretty awesome! I'd imagine most top shelf TV is shot at least 4K these days.
Poor George Lucas... He shot the Star Wars prequels in 2K. They'll have to be remade...thankfully. ????
Can someone explain why the iPhone 6s supports 4K video recording, we now have 4K and 5K iMacs yet the ?TV doesn't support 4K (while competitor boxes from the likes of Amazon and Roku do)? That makes no sense to me other than Phil Schiller decided it needed to be held back so Apple had a reason for you to buy a new one in a couple years.
I love when non-technical people keep bringing up these talking points over and over again. Do the Amazon and Roku boxes support 4K gaming? Even gamers with very high end, custom-built PCs with top of the line graphics cards don't run most games at 4K because the frame rates drop significantly.
Anyone can do video at 4K because the decoding and displaying of video frames is all done in hardware. Gaming at 4K is a much more difficult problem because you need to transfer a lot of data between the CPU and the GPU, which is a difficult bottleneck to overcome even on high end PCs. This is most likely the reason why the ?TV doesn't support 4K: because it's impossible to create a good experience across the entire gamut of what it can do (video playback and gaming) at 4K, especially at the sub-$200 price point which people expect a TV box to be.
But I suppose I'm wasting my words if it's all just mindless talking points here.
explaining how product design works and asking you to vote with your dollars is a "shitty response"? my, my. somebody isn't equipped to deal with reality...
as I said -- decisions will be made for you by any manufacturer. Apple picks privacy. you want something closer to google decisions. so -- what's stopping you from having it? buy it. but don't be naive about the fact that every manufacturer will make decisions for you, their customer. you can only align yourself with the one that appeals to you. sounds like that isn't Apple.
Except Apple isn't an advertising company. They don't need to sell my data to make money. The issue isn't having people's data, the issue is what you do with that data. If Apple is explicit on why they want my data and how they're going to use it, how it's going to benefit me and how I can opt-out, I have no problem with them having my data.
Exactly! It's not about whether or not they COLLECT user data - it's more about how they use it...and about giving users the ability to opt-out. Google collects data for nefarious purposes. They sell it...
FUD.
The user data they have is used for their own services and protected like crown jewels, not sold off like some other companies do. A bit of reading might do you well to assuage your fears. BTW, Google lets you opt out of data collection too. If you can't be bothered to look let me know and I'll post the links for you.
FACT: There is no benefit to 4k at normal viewing distances unless the screen is 70 inches or larger.
FACT: There is very little real 4k media available.
FACT: Netflix 4k streaming is not any better than a standard Bluray disc because of bitrate limitations
FACT: With current technology the only way to get real 4k video is to buy 4k discs (not available till 2016) or download the entire 100GB file.
FACT: HDTV took 7-10 years to go mainstream. And the jump from standard definition to high definition was a massive jump that could be easily seen even on regular sized TV's. The jump from HD to 4k is much harder to see on regular sized TV's.
Fact: Comcast still offers more channels in SD than in HD and has added very few HD channels in the last 3 years. The general public does not know the difference or care. So 4K is just feature for a small minority.
I actually went through this thought process a few years ago with my current AppleTV, and, in the end, was able to run AppleTV -> HDMI -> TV -> passthrough optical audio to surround sound.
It works well - my Samsung TV even has the ability to adjust the audio delay +/- a few milli?seconds, though it wasn't necessary.
I would recommend seeing if this is an option for your setup (I've got AppleTV, SageTV & an Xbox all hooked up this way via the TV)
Thanks for the tip. I'm going to take a look at what options my TV has, and see if I'm able to do the same sort of passthrough from it, and get optical that way.
Let's discuss a feature that will actually be in the new Apple TV. I am not a gamer and so I think I can do fine with the 32GB model and don't need 64GB. Or am I missing something?
Hey now, what's wrong with a soundbar? It's actually the first soundbar that I ever bought, and I think that it works pretty decently.
I have my Apple TV hooked up to a TV in a room that's not that huge, and the soundbar is actually the optimal choice for that set up in my opinion. I don't have the room for any elaborate multi speaker surround system.
When I bought the soundbar, my main goal was the to get better sound than what was coming out of the TV, and that goal was definitely achieved, because the soundbar sounds 1000 times better than the internal TV sound.
Exactly! It's not about whether or not they COLLECT user data - it's more about how they use it...and about giving users the ability to opt-out. Google collects data for nefarious purposes. They sell it...
FUD.
The user data they have is used for their own services and protected like crown jewels, not sold off like some other companies do. A bit of reading might do you well to assuage your fears. BTW, Google lets you opt out of data collection too. If you can't be bothered to look let me know and I'll post the links for you.
My suggestion is to just read Googles all-encompassing privacy policy and to also read the numerous privacy policies from Apple.
I spent some effort enumerating the subtle differences, and proved that mostly they are similar here before. But my posts were removed for some reason.
So don't waste your time Gatorguy. I already have tried and been deleted.
As much as I dislike ranting and whining, I also feel the 3 reasons you've given aren't super compelling.
I bought a 4K LG with the WebOS 2.0 smart features earlier this year. Of course I'd prefer an Apple interface, but the LG WebOS is perfectly serviceable and the price was pretty reasonable. And if I have one, 4K is not something only a tiny percentage of people can afford, in fact I feel soon 4K will completely replace 1080p just like 720p was replaced several years ago.
There is 4K content just waiting for delivery. The NBC show The Blacklist is available via Netflix in 4K and it is pretty awesome! I'd imagine most top shelf TV is shot at least 4K these days.
Good fracking god, 4K netflix doesn;t even beat OTA 1080P of the same god damn show at the viewing distance people watch a TV.
I'm so tired of the same crap argument on and on and on and on.
Do you have 40/20 vision or watching your 4K content native (not compressed streas) on your Computer, if not, please spare me the 4K spiel, you are a marketing victim.
LCD used for TV's are so bad at resolution when talking of a moving image that it makes the whole thing more absurd even.
Comments
They are the best in your opinion. That's all. Just because you say it's the best doesn't make it true.
Apple should of had a base of 32GB and everyone knows that. You've even said so yourself a few times.
Neil deGrasse Tyson had said the evidence you should trust the least in court is eyewitness account. It's not scientific. He's a very smart guy.
I agree with Mr. Tyson. The main reason why eyewitness accounts are not reliable is because the witness often fabricates their own reality and introduces their own biases. Or is led to state something they didn't actually see.
I will not dispute that ones own brain can be awfully deceiving to itself.
But for as cheap as a 4K set is compared to the others. Even if I am being deceived. That is pretty cheap deception on the margin over the life of the television. And if I purchase a 4K television today it will play 4K content in the future. No chance of a 1080 set doing that.
Of course the 4k will look better than the 1080p sets at a store:
1. The store sets it up that way so you buy the much more expensive 4k sets.
2. The 4k sets have a wider color gamut
3. The 4k sets have better contrast and black levels
4. The 4k sets have better brightness and white levels
5. The 4k sets are running a superior source material
6. The 4k sets have superior glass and panel quality
The only way you can truly tell if 4k resolution makes a difference if you have 2 TV's that have identical components except one has a 1080p panel and one has a 4k panel. And they need to be using the same source material and calibrated exactly the same.
What you see in stores is the EXACT opposite of that.
IMO, the difference you are seeing at the store at normal viewing distances is the superior components in the 4k set that have NOTHING to do with resolution.
I won't dispute reason #1, some stores more than likely do this. Although no decent self respecting A/V store does.
Reasons #2 through #6 are reason enough to go for the 4K set considering its not that much more expensive these days. Especially if you average it out over the life of a TV.
It's like buying something from Apple. Might be a little bit more expensive up front but it will serve you better for years.
I dont begrudge them charging me a little extra for a premium product.
I agree that Apple has the best products overall - but that doesn't mean that every single feature of every single device and every single app is "the best".
Most people agree that the Apple products are "the best" - and so they purchase them! The problem comes when they find a feature missing that they would like or some specific functionality that works better in another app or on another device and they comment on it....
They are completely valid comments but some people can't take it if Apple is criticized even a little bit and they spew crap like "take it or leave it" or "go buy something else if you don't like it". It's rude and its non-productive. Sure - Apple products are "the best" - but it doesn't mean that they are perfect. Most of them can be improved - so why do people get so upset when other people want to talk about how to improve them??? I mean it's one thing if someone jumps on and starts spewing negativity and denigrating everything in general with nothing but opinion to back them up - but I've seen people get slammed in here just for politely expressing that they wished some thing worked differently - or even just for asking "why" something works a certain way.... And that's just wrong. People should be able to express their opinion and make suggestions for improvements without being told to "go buy an andrioid". We need to save harsh reactions like that for the obvious trolls - not for individuals with genuine suggestions/observations/questions....
explaining how product design works and asking you to vote with your dollars is a "shitty response"? my, my. somebody isn't equipped to deal with reality...
as I said -- decisions will be made for you by any manufacturer. Apple picks privacy. you want something closer to google decisions. so -- what's stopping you from having it? buy it. but don't be naive about the fact that every manufacturer will make decisions for you, their customer. you can only align yourself with the one that appeals to you. sounds like that isn't Apple.
Most people I assist when upgrading their device are perfectly fine* in the 16GB capacity perhaps a 12Mpx camera, 4K video (if they even turn that one), and whatever size iOS 10 will be, will cave that, but for the basic user and, from what I hear, corporate use where it's locked down to specific apps and not for recreational use, 16GB is if fine.
* By perfectly fine, I mean using less than half their available capacity.
Gee, it's a good thing Apple doesn't offer an App Store that allows people to replace all the system apps with third party solutions...
Gee... You know your sarcasm actually supports my theory right? Since Apple will now offer an App Store for the AppleTV, if any of those Apps offered 4K, they might draw users away from the Apple Apps that don't. Since the AppleTV doesn't do 4K, none of the third party Apps will be able to offer it ahead of Apple.
They continued offering optical drives on Macs long after they stopped selling Apple software on disc. I mean, if that was the concern, why open up the AppleTV at all? Just continue putting content only they want on there and keep telling those they don't like to get lost!
The A8 has h265 support but no iTunes content for it; it's used for FaceTime and only between other A8 devices. Why add support for something hardly used? Could it be...future proofing?
Optical drives? Continuing to provide legacy hardware or software is a lot different than adding tech they aren't ready for.
You may be right... Future proofing may be their intent... so maybe they will turn on 4k on all the devices that will support it. Of course this again supports my theory that "Once they have 4K widely available on iTunes they will add it to AppleTV."
no. even collecting personal data is something I don't want. corporations get hacked, can be bought out, and be spied on.
collecting it is the problem. pretending it isn't is naive.
Poor George Lucas... He shot the Star Wars prequels in 2K. They'll have to be remade...thankfully. ????
Can someone explain why the iPhone 6s supports 4K video recording, we now have 4K and 5K iMacs yet the ?TV doesn't support 4K (while competitor boxes from the likes of Amazon and Roku do)? That makes no sense to me other than Phil Schiller decided it needed to be held back so Apple had a reason for you to buy a new one in a couple years.
I love when non-technical people keep bringing up these talking points over and over again. Do the Amazon and Roku boxes support 4K gaming? Even gamers with very high end, custom-built PCs with top of the line graphics cards don't run most games at 4K because the frame rates drop significantly.
Anyone can do video at 4K because the decoding and displaying of video frames is all done in hardware. Gaming at 4K is a much more difficult problem because you need to transfer a lot of data between the CPU and the GPU, which is a difficult bottleneck to overcome even on high end PCs. This is most likely the reason why the ?TV doesn't support 4K: because it's impossible to create a good experience across the entire gamut of what it can do (video playback and gaming) at 4K, especially at the sub-$200 price point which people expect a TV box to be.
But I suppose I'm wasting my words if it's all just mindless talking points here.
Except Apple isn't an advertising company. They don't need to sell my data to make money. The issue isn't having people's data, the issue is what you do with that data. If Apple is explicit on why they want my data and how they're going to use it, how it's going to benefit me and how I can opt-out, I have no problem with them having my data.
The user data they have is used for their own services and protected like crown jewels, not sold off like some other companies do. A bit of reading might do you well to assuage your fears. BTW, Google lets you opt out of data collection too. If you can't be bothered to look let me know and I'll post the links for you.
Right. And that's why all of this should be opt-in, not we're not going to do it because some people don't want it or have concerns.
FACT: There is no benefit to 4k at normal viewing distances unless the screen is 70 inches or larger.
FACT: There is very little real 4k media available.
FACT: Netflix 4k streaming is not any better than a standard Bluray disc because of bitrate limitations
FACT: With current technology the only way to get real 4k video is to buy 4k discs (not available till 2016) or download the entire 100GB file.
FACT: HDTV took 7-10 years to go mainstream. And the jump from standard definition to high definition was a massive jump that could be easily seen even on regular sized TV's. The jump from HD to 4k is much harder to see on regular sized TV's.
Fact: Comcast still offers more channels in SD than in HD and has added very few HD channels in the last 3 years. The general public does not know the difference or care. So 4K is just feature for a small minority.
I actually went through this thought process a few years ago with my current AppleTV, and, in the end, was able to run AppleTV -> HDMI -> TV -> passthrough optical audio to surround sound.
It works well - my Samsung TV even has the ability to adjust the audio delay +/- a few milli?seconds, though it wasn't necessary.
I would recommend seeing if this is an option for your setup (I've got AppleTV, SageTV & an Xbox all hooked up this way via the TV)
Thanks for the tip. I'm going to take a look at what options my TV has, and see if I'm able to do the same sort of passthrough from it, and get optical that way.
Let's discuss a feature that will actually be in the new Apple TV. I am not a gamer and so I think I can do fine with the 32GB model and don't need 64GB. Or am I missing something?
soundbar. LOL.
Hey now, what's wrong with a soundbar? It's actually the first soundbar that I ever bought, and I think that it works pretty decently.
I have my Apple TV hooked up to a TV in a room that's not that huge, and the soundbar is actually the optimal choice for that set up in my opinion. I don't have the room for any elaborate multi speaker surround system.
When I bought the soundbar, my main goal was the to get better sound than what was coming out of the TV, and that goal was definitely achieved, because the soundbar sounds 1000 times better than the internal TV sound.
Exactly! It's not about whether or not they COLLECT user data - it's more about how they use it...and about giving users the ability to opt-out. Google collects data for nefarious purposes. They sell it...
FUD.
The user data they have is used for their own services and protected like crown jewels, not sold off like some other companies do. A bit of reading might do you well to assuage your fears. BTW, Google lets you opt out of data collection too. If you can't be bothered to look let me know and I'll post the links for you.
My suggestion is to just read Googles all-encompassing privacy policy and to also read the numerous privacy policies from Apple.
I spent some effort enumerating the subtle differences, and proved that mostly they are similar here before. But my posts were removed for some reason.
So don't waste your time Gatorguy. I already have tried and been deleted.
As much as I dislike ranting and whining, I also feel the 3 reasons you've given aren't super compelling.
I bought a 4K LG with the WebOS 2.0 smart features earlier this year. Of course I'd prefer an Apple interface, but the LG WebOS is perfectly serviceable and the price was pretty reasonable. And if I have one, 4K is not something only a tiny percentage of people can afford, in fact I feel soon 4K will completely replace 1080p just like 720p was replaced several years ago.
There is 4K content just waiting for delivery. The NBC show The Blacklist is available via Netflix in 4K and it is pretty awesome! I'd imagine most top shelf TV is shot at least 4K these days.
Good fracking god, 4K netflix doesn;t even beat OTA 1080P of the same god damn show at the viewing distance people watch a TV.
I'm so tired of the same crap argument on and on and on and on.
Do you have 40/20 vision or watching your 4K content native (not compressed streas) on your Computer, if not, please spare me the 4K spiel, you are a marketing victim.
LCD used for TV's are so bad at resolution when talking of a moving image that it makes the whole thing more absurd even.