Apple hires away Nvidia's director of deep learning software, suggests work on autonomous vehicle

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  • Reply 21 of 75
    Two random comments:

    1. When snow covers the road, how will autonomous vehicles determine lane boundaries?

    2. A world with autonomous vehicles would probably be easier if ALL the vehicles were autonomous. One of the challenges must stem from our inevitable hybrid model of needing to anticipate the behavior of both autonomous and human-driven vehicles in the same space.
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  • Reply 22 of 75
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slprescott View Post



    Two random comments:



    1. When snow covers the road, how will autonomous vehicles determine lane boundaries?



    2. A world with autonomous vehicles would probably be easier if ALL the vehicles were autonomous. One of the challenges must stem from our inevitable hybrid model of needing to anticipate the behavior of both autonomous and human-driven vehicles in the same space.



    1. currently, they don't. It is easy: such systems require either optical or other indicators for determining the boundaries. Some concepts think about incorporating transmitters into the road in order to accomplish this independent of weather conditions. That presents, however, an enormous investment, no one is currently willing to undertake. btw. Same for heavy fog etc.

     

    2. Yes. And there are a lot of tests on OEM and supplier level in that direction. Clearly, the "internet-of-things" is the future for mobility as well: vehicles and to some degree roads communicating with each other for safety and traffic guiding. Remember, however, that this still leaves the systems with the biggest challenges: Unexpected behavior, such as children running across the street, obstacles falling onto the road, etc.

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  • Reply 23 of 75
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane 

     


     

    Thanks for those well-informed answers.  Interesting...

     

    Another thought:

    Will fully autonomous vehicles provide no manual controls (steering wheel, accelerator, brake) for situations that require unique decision making?   Example: after getting into an accident, each car has to retract from the situation and pull off to a safe space to let other cars pass.  How to do this will vary 100% by situation, so it's hard to imagine that a computer would have enough situational awareness to do this automatically.  In that situation, you'd want to grab the wheel yourself and quickly get out of danger.

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  • Reply 24 of 75
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,680member
    Apple don't mess around.
    Yet all those "experts" saying Apple can't compete with the establishment. The old guard.
    And the trolls who think Apple is foolish to try because of their lack of experience.
    Of course Apple can compete. They can enter any segment of any business if that's what they want as they have more resources than about any company on the planet. Only regulators stand in the way of anything Apple wants to do. Heck if they don't want to be bothered with developing everything from scratch just buy it. They have all the cash they'd need. Anyone saying Apple can't do this or that is foolish IMHO.
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  • Reply 25 of 75
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,090member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

     

    It's becoming real. Not sure how should I feel about Apple Car.




    as opposed to a google or microsoft car? i'll put my money on apple.

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  • Reply 26 of 75
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Apple don't mess around.
    Yet all those "experts" saying Apple can't compete with the establishment. The old guard.
    And the trolls who think Apple is foolish to try because of their lack of experience.

    When rumors surfaced that Apple was going to become an MVNO it didn't take therm long to shoot it down. Apple has not shot down any of the EV rumors other than Tim Cook saying Apple has no relationship with Tesla. In 2012 Tim Cook was asked about wearables and said "the wrist is interesting". We now have ?Watch. This year Jeff Williams said the car is the ultimate mobile device and Tim Cook said the automobile industry is ripe for change.

    Apple is very secretive about future products but executives do give hints. The biggest hint with the car is all the people they're hiring and the real estate they're gobbling up. Another hint was Jony Ive's promotion where Cook said he would be focused on "new ideas and future initiatives" (among other things). Certainly an Apple EV would be a new initiative. I wouldn't be surprise too if Bob Mansfield is heavily involved in this project as well.
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  • Reply 27 of 75
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,342member
    I for one never doubted the rumors that Apple was going to build a car from day one. It fits the company's DNA perfectly. A DNA of redesigning something we use everyday to make something new and compelling.

    Unlike other tech companies, Apple doesn't trumpet every minimal accomplishment, so there is a tendency for bloggers and the tech media to downplay Apple's prowness inbetween product launches.

    But Apple has the "bile and fire-in-the-belly" to get the job down. The engineers at Apple will relish the challenge and work hard to make it happen. And what they don't have, they will buy. And Tim Cook & company are supply chain and production masters.

    The old guard will of course so it is a different industry and Apple doesn't get it. But they forget that it will be a single electric car. So scalability and production issues will be different.

    The only thing I ruminate about is the type of car. I see two options:

    1. A medium priced car that will get millennials excited about driving again. It would be a small, fun and effective car that would be a modern living tool.

    2. A higher end and larger vehicle that would take on Tesla directly.

    Though I think option one makes more sense, option two maybe necessary due to engineering considerations such as battery pack size to achieve acceptable range.

    Time will tell. Either way, I'm getting one as a first day adopter. The cult demands it.
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  • Reply 28 of 75
    matrix07 wrote: »
    It's becoming real. Not sure how should I feel about Apple Car.

    how could you? you have absolutely no info from Apple describing its features and benefits.
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  • Reply 29 of 75
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post





    The roadmap I am aware of in the automotive OEM and tier 1 level is seeing autonomous driving not emerging before 2025. And that's very optimistic. The level of assistance will obviously increase with any year. However, the last step of true autonomous driving is the hardest.

     

    Autonomous driving in places like long haul freeways will occur before 2025 for sure. (it could be done now)

    In general, in many cases the obstacles are not technical, but regulatory and cultural.

    Though in places like inner cities, even 2025 is optimistic.

    I think Manhattan won't see it full automation before 2030-2035 at the earliest.

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  • Reply 30 of 75
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BadMonk View Post



    I for one never doubted the rumors that Apple was going to build a car from day one. It fits the company's DNA perfectly. A DNA of redesigning something we use everyday to make something new and compelling.



    Unlike other tech companies, Apple doesn't trumpet every minimal accomplishment, so there is a tendency for bloggers and the tech media to downplay Apple's prowness inbetween product launches.



    But Apple has the "bile and fire-in-the-belly" to get the job down. The engineers at Apple will relish the challenge and work hard to make it happen. And what they don't have, they will buy. And Tim Cook & company are supply chain and production masters.



    The old guard will of course so it is a different industry and Apple doesn't get it. But they forget that it will be a single electric car. So scalability and production issues will be different.



    The only thing I ruminate about is the type of car. I see two options:



    1. A medium priced car that will get millennials excited about driving again. It would be a small, fun and effective car that would be a modern living tool.



    2. A higher end and larger vehicle that would take on Tesla directly.



    Though I think option one makes more sense, option two maybe necessary due to engineering considerations such as battery pack size to achieve acceptable range.



    Time will tell. Either way, I'm getting one as a first day adopter. The cult demands it.

     

    If your just producing some small fun car ...

    You're not talking about something will do because that's basically just a variation of the same spiel everyone is producing now.

     

    The reasons the younger sets doesn't own a car are:

       - Cost to own and operate

       - It's no longer seen as a rite of passage, a sign of maturity or liberty to own a car (so, cultural changes)

       - Rise of virtual interactions

       - Inner cities, denser development are seen as the place to be, condo and appartment living

       - People have children later, which means they don't need to buy that suburban house (the only one they could afford), car less needed

       - Having children late means

       - Environmental concerns

       - Traffic is getting worse and worse and driving is painfull because of it no matter what car you drive

       - Driving is lost time

       - Driving takes full attention and anything that currently makes the experience more interresting detracts from this attention

     

    If Apple produces a upper high end car with low TCO that's fun to drive with a better in car experience, well that's basically what most car makers could also be doing soon.

     

    You're not offering something really disruptive, you're not really answering all the pain points of the potential customer.

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  • Reply 31 of 75
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

    Apple don't mess around.

    Yet all those "experts" saying Apple can't compete with the establishment. The old guard.

    And the trolls who think Apple is foolish to try because of their lack of experience.

     

    Just like the television set.

     

    Wait...

     

    Originally Posted by foggyhill View Post

       - It's no longer seen as a rite of passage, a sign of maturity

       - People have children later


     

    Genocide.

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  • Reply 32 of 75
    slprescott wrote: »
    Thanks for those well-informed answers.  Interesting...

    Another thought:
    Will fully autonomous vehicles provide no manual controls (steering wheel, accelerator, brake) for situations that require unique decision making?   Example: after getting into an accident, each car has to retract from the situation and pull off to a safe space to let other cars pass.  How to do this will vary 100% by situation, so it's hard to imagine that a computer would have enough situational awareness to do this automatically.  In that situation, you'd want to grab the wheel yourself and quickly get out of danger.

    You're looking at a scenerio that may never happen or is many, many decades down the road.

    In order to stop these "doomsday scenarios" we need to look at how technology progresses in steps. Automobiles that take some of the effort from the driver for both ease of use and safety have been with us for our entire lives. This will be the way this will occur going forward, too.
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  • Reply 33 of 75
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post

     
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slprescott View Post



    Two random comments:



    1. When snow covers the road, how will autonomous vehicles determine lane boundaries?



    2. A world with autonomous vehicles would probably be easier if ALL the vehicles were autonomous. One of the challenges must stem from our inevitable hybrid model of needing to anticipate the behavior of both autonomous and human-driven vehicles in the same space.



    1. currently, they don't. It is easy: such systems require either optical or other indicators for determining the boundaries. Some concepts think about incorporating transmitters into the road in order to accomplish this independent of weather conditions. That presents, however, an enormous investment, no one is currently willing to undertake. btw. Same for heavy fog etc.

     

    2. Yes. And there are a lot of tests on OEM and supplier level in that direction. Clearly, the "internet-of-things" is the future for mobility as well: vehicles and to some degree roads communicating with each other for safety and traffic guiding. Remember, however, that this still leaves the systems with the biggest challenges: Unexpected behavior, such as children running across the street, obstacles falling onto the road, etc.


    Maybe someone will come up with an affordable road lane/child paint that is detectable through 3 feet of snow, heavy rain or fog.*

     

    *patent pending ;) 

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  • Reply 34 of 75
    techlover wrote: »
    <span style="line-height:1.4em;">Maybe someone will come up with an affordable road lane/child paint that is detectable through 3 feet of snow, heavy rain or fog.*</span>


    *patent pending ;)  

    As Tesla repeatedly states, Autopilot does not mean you should take your hands off the steering wheel. It's effectively no different than cruise control or adaptive cruise control doesn't mean you can remove your feet from being in front of the break and acceleration pedals.

    Personally, I think calling it Auotpilot was a bad move, even with all their warnings. I assume they wanted this to make waves in the media to being more attention to Tesla (and it worked), but people are stupid so we often have to advertise to the weakest mental link (which is why I also think WiFi Asssit should have been opt-in).

    Anyway, I think the future of safe, autonomous vehicles will likely work in heavy snow fall with sensors looking for multiple other points, not just the lines on the road. Satellites, terrestrial towers, road sensors, and other vehicles will likely all be used (if not more) for safely moving cars on the road.

    I also predict this will also likely be incorporated at the state or federal level with separated driving areas on the highway, like HOV lanes are today.
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  • Reply 35 of 75
    I personally don't really care about autonomous cars. What gets me excited for the future is thinking about an Apple foray into electric cars.

    Sure the first version will be bulky and a little limited, but Apple will rapidly iterate and a version or two down the road (sorry) Apple will be the thought leaders in cars. Hopefully the old guard will stop their current window dressing efforts around e-cars and try to catch up with serious designs.
    E-cars could become mainstream very fast and we could get out of the Middle East, establish some real energy independence & stop pumping crap into the air that we breathe.

    Apple could really change the world here. So yeah, I'm excited.
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  • Reply 36 of 75
    Originally Posted by lostkiwi View Post

    ...stop pumping crap into the air that we breathe.

     

    That would only increase with the increase in electricity needed for the cars...

     

    What we actually need is a battery tech revolution. General Purpose Humanoid Robotics can never exist without batteries an order of magnitude better than the crap we use now.

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  • Reply 37 of 75
    That would only increase with the increase in electricity needed for the cars...

    What we actually need is a battery tech revolution. General Purpose Humanoid Robotics can never exist without batteries an order of magnitude better than the crap we use now.

    Hi TS, thanks for the reply.
    Yep, I agree that battery tech is an area that needs some real innovation. That will make all the difference towards mainstream adoption of e-cars.
    Not everyone can afford a $90k Tesla but they are the only ones producing an e-car with decent range right now. But if anyone can make a difference here, it is Apple. An e-car ties in super well with so many of Apple's philosophies.

    Also I am aware my comments have an NZ perspective to them. Over 80% of our electricity is renewable, so e-cars would be great here. Unfortunately the current government only likes to talk about e-cars but does absolutely nothing to support them.
    In the States, a large proportion of electricity is produced fossilly I believe.
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  • Reply 38 of 75
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,301member
    "Do you want to sell sugar pixels for the rest of your life, or do you want to come with me and change the world?"

    If Apple makes a car, which I hope they do, it'll hardly "change the world".
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  • Reply 39 of 75
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    
    
    
    matrix07 wrote: »

    Ha ha. That's true. It's strange that my next car may likely be Google's, Apple's or Tesla rather than Audi or BMW. :O

    If one of them builds a pickup truck or SUV I might be in. Otherwise I find most modern cars a little to compact for a 6 foot plus frame.
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  • Reply 40 of 75
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    I wonder if Apple is planning on building a single, universal base frame that houses the electric motors and batteries, and then adjusting the wheelbase, wheels, suspension and the cab accordingly so they can use horizontal integration for the core of several vehicle types, much like Tesla is doing with the Model S and Model X.
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