Oh goodness, lots of us have been waiting years for this update, another year would be yet another year longer than we've already waited! The App Store is what many of us have wanted for quite some time, that feature alone is worth the upgrade. The good news is that the device is cheap enough if they upgrade the device with something I can't do without, I'll sell the current one and upgrade to it, though I'm not sure exactly what this one lacks that would compel me to upgrade. I'm happy with it today, and I'm sure I'll enjoy it even more than I've enjoyed both my other ATVs (most used devices in the house).
I think Apple could have future proofed it a little bit by supporting 4K. I see this product as having a long tail and not something that needs to be refreshed frequently. Even if 4K content isn't widely available what's the harm in this box supporting it for when it does become more widely available? Other than marketing thinking they need a reason for people to shell out another $150 in two years. That's a shame.
Given the nature of how 3rd party apps currently work, I don't see how a universal sign-in would even be implemented at this point. Each app runs its own subscription check. Open your iPhone and count how many apps and websites require a separate, unique login. Even AI forum requires a login. How could Apple grant full access to ALL paid apps using a universal sign-in? I have Netflix on at least 10 different devices. Each device required authentication and maintains a unique login. If you stay in the Apple ecosystem(iTunes, etc) then you can bounce around with ease. Until all providers cut themselves from packaged services, and go strictly a la cart, I don't see this being resolved.
So all the devices you use Netflix on require a different ID and password? I think Apple could have worked with the content providers to come up with something that is seamless. I subscribe to DirecTV. Just give me an option in settings to put in my ID and password and then let the content providers grab that information for authentication. I'm not exactly sure how it would work technically but there's got to be some sort of solution other than what we have now. Isn't Apple supposed to be all about solving problems and providing a superior user experience? This is one area where I think they could have done that.
I have two ATV3's and recently sold two ATV2's. The ATV3 does everything I want right now and I can't see this new ATV4 bringing anything new until the apps start coming out. I think I'll wait for the ATV5 with Siri access everywhere and 4k. This is definitely not revolutionizing TV in it's current condition. They should have waited another year, polished Siri, signed all the content providers and solved the single login. That would have had a much bigger splash than this.
Adding 4k would add additional costs. They would need to pay a licensing fee and probably have to use an A9 to run 4k smoothly. Obviously they could not use the A9 now because they need the chips for the iPhones.
So why should Apple add a feature that very few will use and cause the product to cost more for everyone?
And now they can sell us a new ?TV in 1 or 2 years that does support 4K (and hopefully convinces Wall St. that Apple does have long term means to sustain its profits and the stock will finally go up to its true value).
Given the nature of how 3rd party apps currently work, I don't see how a universal sign-in would even be implemented at this point. Each app runs its own subscription check. Open your iPhone and count how many apps and websites require a separate, unique login. Even AI forum requires a login. How could Apple grant full access to ALL paid apps using a universal sign-in? I have Netflix on at least 10 different devices. Each device required authentication and maintains a unique login. If you stay in the Apple ecosystem(iTunes, etc) then you can bounce around with ease. Until all providers cut themselves from packaged services, and go strictly a la cart, I don't see this being resolved.
So all the devices you use Netflix on require a different ID and password? I think Apple could have worked with the content providers to come up with something that is seamless. I subscribe to DirecTV. Just give me an option in settings to put in my ID and password and then let the content providers grab that information for authentication. I'm not exactly sure how it would work technically but there's got to be some sort of solution other than what we have now. Isn't Apple supposed to be all about solving problems and providing a superior user experience? This is one area where I think they could have done that.
What about different passwords for each different service? How is Apple supposed to know all that? You would still be inputting each login.
AppleTV is by far my favorite product and this update ticks all the marks I've been pining for for 3 years:
- That remote!
- Aggregated Search
- Siri
- Apps
- 802.11ac
- Fast chip for better AirPlay
There's so much more, but that's what I really wanted to see. It is a no brainer update. How anyone could "not see a reason" to update is simply not looking for one.
Siri doesn't work with all search functions? That needs to be changed.
My bet is we will see rapid releases of TvOS updates adding many features we all want and many we haven't even thought of. I have a gut feeling AppleTV will rise over the next few years to be a major player in not only TV but games and yet unknown markets.
As I stated above, Apple provided a direct response to the question to Andy Ihnatko (and if I recall correctly, Ihnatko stated this in a Macbreak Weekly video podcast recently).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismY
I don't think there is any certainty there at all. My gut feeling is that Apple won't support 4K UHD until they the iTS content ready to support it with H.265 encoded content with a certain threshold of content providers on board, and that this will come with an updated version of the Apple TV HW and SW.
There are several elements that need to fall into place, and since this is a rumors/speculation site, my musings include:
1) What is Apple's desire? My guess is they have already built a library of 4k material, and/or in the process of doing so. Filmmakers have been shooting/telecining 4k for years. So plausible. It's also likely since they have tens of millions of 4k cameras being shipped every month, and no way to watch them for those that don't have a 4k/5k iMac.
2) Is the new Apple TV fast enough to process 4k? Don't know, but the general commentary I've read is that the ATV, (which is significantly, as a percentage, larger than it's predecessor) is a very capable processor. So plausible
3) Does it have the right codecs? No. Can that be updated via firmware? Likely. So plausible
4) Does it have copy protection? Yes, but not HDCP 2.2 which is the new standard. Can Apple use a different CP method that satisfies the industry, or did they back in a way to allow its support via firmware. Possible on the first option, less likely on the second. Remember, they invented a CP for the music industry that was acceptable. But none of this is needed for non-CP material, including what you shoot on your iPhone 6s. So plausible/unnecessary (depending on content)
5) Does it have sufficient HDMI bandwidth? For up to 4k30p, yes. So confirmed.
I have a hard time believing serious gamers are looking to AppleTV for their gaming fix. I have no problem with AppleTV being geared towards more casual games. Apple has never been a company focused on gaming so I never expected the new AppleTV to focus on games. Serious gamers are buying either Xbox or PlayStation.
Rogifan,
I tend to agree with you. I have a Mini Mac hooked to my Home Theater set up and can take advantage of different services in that manner. This new box is not compelling enough to go get at the moment. How can they have 4K capabilities in their other devices but not in the new Box? DirecTV puts out an excellent picture....and with Logitech's Ultimate Home remote you can use the voice inputs to finds shows on TV.
Just as with retina displays, it depends how far you are away from your screen. For a average living room scenario a decent 4k TV set needs to be about 4m x 2.25m or higher. (Your milage and living room may vary:) )
4k TV Sets that have a smaller physical size just offer me pixels I cant see anyway. Its just as with the Samsung Android Phones. There is no point in a high density of pixels if they are way beyond of what you can see.
Beside who has the bandwidth and network performance for 4k streaming?
And yes,I mean streaming and not downloading to cache as iTunes on Apple TV does. (which is the best solution IMHO)
It will be a long time till the networks are able to deliver 4k to many. Before that point we will see Internet connections with OoS for paying customers. Hopefully those ppl will then have a TV that is large enough for their 4k experience. But by that time we have probably the next standard coming up.
Alas, just my opinion. I don't claim I am right - just I don't see any point in 4k if I cant proper use.
What about the 4K video you can currently shoot and edit on both iPad and iPhone? It'd be nice to be able to stream that video to the new AppleTV.
I don't think there is any certainty there at all. My gut feeling is that Apple won't support 4K UHD until they the iTS content ready to support it with H.265 encoded content with a certain threshold of content providers on board, and that this will come with an updated version of the Apple TV HW and SW.
I confess I haven't read up on this but do we know for a fact 4K will require different hardware as opposed to just a software update?
Why did you even bother upgrading your ?TV 2s? I have an ?TV 2 and it does everything my ?TV 3 does at work. The 4 definitely does more than either, and seems worth the upgrade comparatively.
For the most part I would agree with you however I've been having a few issues over the last month or two with my ?TV 2. Random resets about once per day, photo sync has been hit or miss, etc. Not sure if it's my unit or the software on it. ?TV 2 OS is version 6.X, ?TV 3 is 7.X. There are currently movie bundles I can't access on ?TV 2, James Bond is one and I can't think what the other is right now. Finally when Apple Music was announced shortly after Apple said it would be coming to ?TV 3 but not 2.
Definitely not reasons to run out immediately and get an ?TV 4, but when you factor in the new features I think it's a worthwhile upgrade. In reference to the post you responded to I think its funny that someone would go from 2-3 but not 4.
Lack of Siri app search and lack of universal sign-in shows me that Steve Jobs has been dead for too long. These are the kind of things he would not have let ship until they were "perfect".
no universal sign-in because Apple have not secured the content provider contracts. Right now your sign-in is verified by the provider you subscribed to, that's why you do it independently yourself. Once Apple secure the content, your iTunes account is your sign-in.
I think Apple could have future proofed it a little bit by supporting 4K. I see this product as having a long tail and not something that needs to be refreshed frequently. Even if 4K content isn't widely available what's the harm in this box supporting it for when it does become more widely available? Other than marketing thinking they need a reason for people to shell out another $150 in two years. That's a shame.
it's a $149 device, Mr. 4K is 3 years away in the future in term of widely available programs. Next gen of ATV will have it. When did Apple release a product that support a limited service? I don't recall one.
What about different passwords for each different service? How is Apple supposed to know all that? You would still be inputting each login.
Other than paid subscriptions which apps would have different IDs/passwords? Any "free" app that requires a cable subscription would use the same ID/password no?
it's a $149 device, Mr. 4K is 3 years away in the future in term of widely available programs. Next gen of ATV will have it. When did Apple release a product that support a limited service? I don't recall one.
On the other hand, Apple was the first company to go all-Retina screen resolution, which drove high-res content creation. There was no market for that kind of content until Apple made a platform to view it.
Comments
I think Apple could have future proofed it a little bit by supporting 4K. I see this product as having a long tail and not something that needs to be refreshed frequently. Even if 4K content isn't widely available what's the harm in this box supporting it for when it does become more widely available? Other than marketing thinking they need a reason for people to shell out another $150 in two years. That's a shame.
So all the devices you use Netflix on require a different ID and password? I think Apple could have worked with the content providers to come up with something that is seamless. I subscribe to DirecTV. Just give me an option in settings to put in my ID and password and then let the content providers grab that information for authentication. I'm not exactly sure how it would work technically but there's got to be some sort of solution other than what we have now. Isn't Apple supposed to be all about solving problems and providing a superior user experience? This is one area where I think they could have done that.
What about different passwords for each different service? How is Apple supposed to know all that? You would still be inputting each login.
AppleTV is by far my favorite product and this update ticks all the marks I've been pining for for 3 years:
- That remote!
- Aggregated Search
- Siri
- Apps
- 802.11ac
- Fast chip for better AirPlay
There's so much more, but that's what I really wanted to see. It is a no brainer update. How anyone could "not see a reason" to update is simply not looking for one.
As I stated above, Apple provided a direct response to the question to Andy Ihnatko (and if I recall correctly, Ihnatko stated this in a Macbreak Weekly video podcast recently).
I don't think there is any certainty there at all. My gut feeling is that Apple won't support 4K UHD until they the iTS content ready to support it with H.265 encoded content with a certain threshold of content providers on board, and that this will come with an updated version of the Apple TV HW and SW.
There are several elements that need to fall into place, and since this is a rumors/speculation site, my musings include:
1) What is Apple's desire? My guess is they have already built a library of 4k material, and/or in the process of doing so. Filmmakers have been shooting/telecining 4k for years. So plausible. It's also likely since they have tens of millions of 4k cameras being shipped every month, and no way to watch them for those that don't have a 4k/5k iMac.
2) Is the new Apple TV fast enough to process 4k? Don't know, but the general commentary I've read is that the ATV, (which is significantly, as a percentage, larger than it's predecessor) is a very capable processor. So plausible
3) Does it have the right codecs? No. Can that be updated via firmware? Likely. So plausible
4) Does it have copy protection? Yes, but not HDCP 2.2 which is the new standard. Can Apple use a different CP method that satisfies the industry, or did they back in a way to allow its support via firmware. Possible on the first option, less likely on the second. Remember, they invented a CP for the music industry that was acceptable. But none of this is needed for non-CP material, including what you shoot on your iPhone 6s. So plausible/unnecessary (depending on content)
5) Does it have sufficient HDMI bandwidth? For up to 4k30p, yes. So confirmed.
I have a hard time believing serious gamers are looking to AppleTV for their gaming fix. I have no problem with AppleTV being geared towards more casual games. Apple has never been a company focused on gaming so I never expected the new AppleTV to focus on games. Serious gamers are buying either Xbox or PlayStation.
Rogifan,
I tend to agree with you. I have a Mini Mac hooked to my Home Theater set up and can take advantage of different services in that manner. This new box is not compelling enough to go get at the moment. How can they have 4K capabilities in their other devices but not in the new Box? DirecTV puts out an excellent picture....and with Logitech's Ultimate Home remote you can use the voice inputs to finds shows on TV.
Originally Posted by pmz
- Fast chip for better AirPlay
Was chip speed really the issue with AirPlay?
What about the 4K video you can currently shoot and edit on both iPad and iPhone? It'd be nice to be able to stream that video to the new AppleTV.
I confess I haven't read up on this but do we know for a fact 4K will require different hardware as opposed to just a software update?
Why did you even bother upgrading your ?TV 2s? I have an ?TV 2 and it does everything my ?TV 3 does at work. The 4 definitely does more than either, and seems worth the upgrade comparatively.
For the most part I would agree with you however I've been having a few issues over the last month or two with my ?TV 2. Random resets about once per day, photo sync has been hit or miss, etc. Not sure if it's my unit or the software on it. ?TV 2 OS is version 6.X, ?TV 3 is 7.X. There are currently movie bundles I can't access on ?TV 2, James Bond is one and I can't think what the other is right now. Finally when Apple Music was announced shortly after Apple said it would be coming to ?TV 3 but not 2.
Definitely not reasons to run out immediately and get an ?TV 4, but when you factor in the new features I think it's a worthwhile upgrade. In reference to the post you responded to I think its funny that someone would go from 2-3 but not 4.
I recall reading somewhere that the hdmi port physically won't support 4K..
HDMI 1.4 can do 4K at 30 frames per second.
HDMI 2.0 can do 4K at 60 frames per second and was seen in TV's from early 2014.
Other than paid subscriptions which apps would have different IDs/passwords? Any "free" app that requires a cable subscription would use the same ID/password no?
On the other hand, Apple was the first company to go all-Retina screen resolution, which drove high-res content creation. There was no market for that kind of content until Apple made a platform to view it.
Thanks for the information.