A belief system is what one believes in to make sense of the world, and their existence.
So not believing in God does not help one "make sense of the world, and their existence." Therefore, not believing in something, whether God, Santa Claus, or the Easter bunny isn't a belief system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
1. Define Santa Claus. For my 9 yr old son I'm Santa Claus which he obviously knows not. It's part of his belief system but not mine.
I did not ask if you believed in Santa Claus. I asked "Would you define your belief system as being based on not believing in Santa Claus and, if not, why?" The first part is a yes/no and the second part, if you answered no, is just an explanation of why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
2. Since you don't believe in water heater aliens then it's not part of your belief system.
So, since I don't believe in God, that's not part of my belief system either. We're making progress...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
3. I have also been the tooth fairy, so it's not part of my belief system
I did not ask if you believed in the Tooth Fairy. I asked "Would you describe your lack of belief in the Tooth Fairy as a "belief system"?"
Why are you being so evasive? You even went to the trouble of erasing the actual questions from the quote, apparently to hide the fact that you were not really answering them.
A belief system is what one believes in to make sense of the world, and their existence.
So not believing in God does not help one "make sense of the world, and their existence." Therefore, not believing in something, whether God, Santa Claus, or the Easter bunny isn't a belief system.
1. Define Santa Claus. For my 9 yr old son I'm Santa Claus which he obviously knows not. It's part of his belief system but not mine.
I did not ask if you believed in Santa Claus. I asked "Would you define your belief system as being based on not believing in Santa Claus and, if not, why?" The first part is a yes/no and the second part, if you answered no, is just an explanation of why.
I did not ask if you believed in the Tooth Fairy. I asked "Would you describe your lack of belief in the Tooth Fairy as a "belief system"?"
[/CONTENTEMBED]
Why are you being so evasive? You even went to the trouble of erasing the actual questions from the quote, apparently to hide the fact that you were not really answering them.
I didn't hide the questions. I don't know why they didn't show up?
Not believing in God means there's a alternate belief of how the universe, world, and life was created, and that is a belief system.
No it isn't. Catholicism is definitely a system...and an extremely political one at that. Atheism and agnosticism do not require anything other than a skeptical mind.
This is a dictionary definition of natural selection: "the process whereby organisms better adapted to their environment tend to survive and produce more offspring. The theory of its action was first fully expounded by Charles Darwin and is now believed to be the main process that brings about evolution."
We have not observed God creating even one creature, much less man. We did not observe God creating life from non-life. So if we're going to reject evolution due to it not being observed by us, then we must reject creationism on that same basis.
Of course the big difference between the two is that the vast majority of the scientific community and academia supports evolutionary theory as the only explanation that can fully account for observations in the fields of biology, paleontology, molecular biology, genetics, anthropology, and others. And evolution has the advantage of being consistent with our understanding of the natural world and biological processes rather than relying on a belief in a supernatural, all-powerful, undetectable being.
So, as you say, "try again!"
I'd like to note it is BELIEVED by evolutionists, we have not observed one kind changing into another. I agree natural selection enables a kind to better adapt to its environment. So try again. We do not observe one kind changing into another by means of natural selection. But more importantly, we also do not see life rising from non life - even in laboratory tests where we should be able to produce the perfect environment.
It's like saying "I'm nowhere", no you're always somewhere. If you say "I don't believe" then you believe that you don't believe.
No. If you are without belief, then you are free to go find some other belief system to believe in. a-
Let's simplify this, why are you without belief?
What does "why" have to do with this argument? You no longer appear to be engaging in good faith (no pun intended) debate here, but rather just playing very poor word games to try to rescue an untenable and stupid starting position. Now it's a belief system because we "believe that we don't believe"? That nonsense does not even deserve to be dignified with a response.
The only way to not believe one way or another is to have zero knowledge of the subject matter. If you believe in what science tells us then that's your belief system because much what science tells us can't be proven. Even science has faith which is simply believing something without proof or witnessing it.
OK - so you are clueless about the process and meaning of science too? Once again I'll say that the nonsense you just posted does not deserve a response. You have to be trolling us here, so I'm going to stop responding. No one is as dense as you are pretending to be.
I didn't hide the questions. I don't know why they didn't show up?
Not believing in God means there's a alternate belief of how the universe, world, and life was created, and that is a belief system.
Atheism is not the belief system. Whatever the a-theist decides to believe once the belief in a man up in the clouds is relinquished is the belief system.
It's like saying "I'm nowhere", no you're always somewhere. If you say "I don't believe" then you believe that you don't believe.
No. If you are without belief, then you are free to go find some other belief system to believe in. a-
Let's simplify this, why are you without belief?
What does "why" have to do with this argument? You no longer appear to be engaging in good faith (no pun intended) debate here, but rather just playing very poor word games to try to rescue an untenable and stupid starting position. Now it's a belief system because we "believe that we don't believe"? That nonsense does not even deserve to be dignified with a response.
The only way to not believe one way or another is to have zero knowledge of the subject matter. If you believe in what science tells us then that's your belief system because much what science tells us can't be proven. Even science has faith which is simply believing something without proof or witnessing it.
OK - so you are clueless about the process and meaning of science too? Once again I'll say that the nonsense you just posted does not deserve a response. You have to be trolling us here, so I'm going to stop responding. No one is as dense as you are pretending to be.
Of course I know what science is. I happen to love science but I know a lot of it is guessing by the little evidence that exists.
I'd like to note it is BELIEVED by evolutionists, we have not observed one kind changing into another. I agree natural selection enables a kind to better adapt to its environment. So try again. We do not observe one kind changing into another by means of natural selection. But more importantly, we also do not see life rising from non life - even in laboratory tests where we should be able to produce the perfect environment.
But unlike the beliefs of creationists, the beliefs of evolutionary biologists are supported by science, including a rich fossil record and DNA with which they can analyze differences between different species.
All that you've done is shown that creationists have a much weaker case. Not only have they never observed the creation of life, they don't even have evidence to support their views. When presented with the fossil record, they make up silly stories about God, or Satan, hiding fossils all over the Earth like the Easter Bunny hiding colored eggs.
No matter how many times I "try again," your "faith" will not be swayed by reason, evidence, facts, and logic, so there's really no point.
I considered your arguments and found them to be wholly unconvincing. But thank you for your time.
Fred, I respect your articulate response, even though you used several rhetorical tricks. Here's the deal, I am a secular guy who believes strongly in the freedoms granted to individuals by our constitution. I personally support gay marriage, no Federal drug laws, no Federal environmental laws, - since these are NOT articulated in the Constitution as a Federal power - doggone Ninth and Tenth Amendments. These are state issues and should be regulated by the state's.
You have defended several things which I find abhorrent. First, the government's, in this case Mayor Parker's, use of any political strategy which seems aimed at stifling freedom of speech or religion. Since the city pulled back demands to see the speeches, it would seem it was an intimidation tactic. Second, the Colorado and Oregon bakers. You really want to go down the path of having people pick their professions based on what the government.promotes? Really?! As to your point about "it's not in the constitution, but that is why we pass legislation". - really? I believe President Obama, a constitutional lawyer, stated the Constituion is a negative document, not a positive one - in other words it limits what government can do rather than articulate what government should do. Great, legislators, presidents and judges don't like to be limited, but if you want to enjoy your freedoms, let us hope they are restrained by the rule of law and in particular laws which limits their power. Using government to excessively force individuals to do things against their wills is tyranny.
A few facts which influence my thoughts. I spent an extended period of time traveling in Communist Eastern Europe - seeing first hand what soft tyranny looks like. I've been to or lived in 65 countries and my wife has done about 70. We've seen or experienced nearly every conceivable governmental system. I recognize the nasty realities of our governmental system - poverty, discrimination, inequality, etc. That said, liberty and the freedom to choose has a price and that price is a messy system. But so does every other system. But our system hasn't put a bullet in the back of people's skulls like National Socialism (Nazis, Peronists, Ba'athists, Nation Front, etc) and the other multitudes of Socialistic systems (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Mao's Little Red Book of Socialism, Kahdafi's Little Green Book of Islamic Socialism, Khomer Rouge, etc) out there. I believe in the last Century socialism killed over a hundred million in pogroms, genocides, etc. As a final note, I believe our nation has moved strongly in the direction of National Socialism (ever since Woodrow Wilson), a belief based on a firm understanding of what this political philosophy means. This is a scary direction and I would encourage you to really reflect what will happen if we continue further down this path.
So which version do you think most likely happened?
I'm not the right person to ask. You should ask a cosmologist. I am just an engineer who was part of teams that built, tested, and launched satellites and a space probe (currently in the asteroid belt).
Quote:
Btw, no and no to Santa Claus, and the Tooth Fairy because they're not pertinent to how, and why we exist.
In my view, they have as much to do with how, and why, we exist as God does.
So which version do you think most likely happened?
I'm not the right person to ask. You should ask a cosmologist. I am just an engineer who was part of teams that built, tested, and launched satellites and a space probe (currently in the asteroid belt).
What does a hairdresser, and makeup artist have to do with anything? There's always time for a laugh, we can't take life (however it came to be) serious all the time.;)
Comments
A belief system is what one believes in to make sense of the world, and their existence.
So not believing in God does not help one "make sense of the world, and their existence." Therefore, not believing in something, whether God, Santa Claus, or the Easter bunny isn't a belief system.
1. Define Santa Claus. For my 9 yr old son I'm Santa Claus which he obviously knows not. It's part of his belief system but not mine.
I did not ask if you believed in Santa Claus. I asked "Would you define your belief system as being based on not believing in Santa Claus and, if not, why?" The first part is a yes/no and the second part, if you answered no, is just an explanation of why.
Quote:
2. Since you don't believe in water heater aliens then it's not part of your belief system.
So, since I don't believe in God, that's not part of my belief system either. We're making progress...
Quote:
3. I have also been the tooth fairy, so it's not part of my belief system
I did not ask if you believed in the Tooth Fairy. I asked "Would you describe your lack of belief in the Tooth Fairy as a "belief system"?"
Why are you being so evasive? You even went to the trouble of erasing the actual questions from the quote, apparently to hide the fact that you were not really answering them.
I didn't hide the questions. I don't know why they didn't show up?
Not believing in God means there's a alternate belief of how the universe, world, and life was created, and that is a belief system.
I never claimed that Atheism is a belief system in of itself but every atheist has some sort of belief system.
That is a lie!
Quote:The point is, if you read any of those links, is that in court it was decided that atheism is in fact a religion.
Atheism is not a religion. That's a juvenile comment.
It is, however, a belief system.
You are astoundingly unethical.
I'll assume you have no idea. Thank for playing
No it isn't. Catholicism is definitely a system...and an extremely political one at that. Atheism and agnosticism do not require anything other than a skeptical mind.
I'd like to note it is BELIEVED by evolutionists, we have not observed one kind changing into another. I agree natural selection enables a kind to better adapt to its environment. So try again. We do not observe one kind changing into another by means of natural selection. But more importantly, we also do not see life rising from non life - even in laboratory tests where we should be able to produce the perfect environment.
I didn't hide the questions. I don't know why they didn't show up?
If you don't know, then God must have done it, right?
And, yet, you still did not answer two of the questions, despite me posing them four times:
Not believing in God means there's a alternate belief of how the universe, world, and life was created, and that is a belief system.
No, not believing in God means just that -- you do not believe in God. It doesn't imply a belief in anything else.
It's like saying "I'm nowhere", no you're always somewhere. If you say "I don't believe" then you believe that you don't believe.
No. If you are without belief, then you are free to go find some other belief system to believe in. a-
Let's simplify this, why are you without belief?
What does "why" have to do with this argument? You no longer appear to be engaging in good faith (no pun intended) debate here, but rather just playing very poor word games to try to rescue an untenable and stupid starting position. Now it's a belief system because we "believe that we don't believe"? That nonsense does not even deserve to be dignified with a response.
The only way to not believe one way or another is to have zero knowledge of the subject matter. If you believe in what science tells us then that's your belief system because much what science tells us can't be proven. Even science has faith which is simply believing something without proof or witnessing it.
OK - so you are clueless about the process and meaning of science too? Once again I'll say that the nonsense you just posted does not deserve a response. You have to be trolling us here, so I'm going to stop responding. No one is as dense as you are pretending to be.
Of course I know what science is. I happen to love science but I know a lot of it is guessing by the little evidence that exists.
I'll assume you have no idea. Thank for playing
"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."
I'd like to note it is BELIEVED by evolutionists, we have not observed one kind changing into another. I agree natural selection enables a kind to better adapt to its environment. So try again. We do not observe one kind changing into another by means of natural selection. But more importantly, we also do not see life rising from non life - even in laboratory tests where we should be able to produce the perfect environment.
But unlike the beliefs of creationists, the beliefs of evolutionary biologists are supported by science, including a rich fossil record and DNA with which they can analyze differences between different species.
All that you've done is shown that creationists have a much weaker case. Not only have they never observed the creation of life, they don't even have evidence to support their views. When presented with the fossil record, they make up silly stories about God, or Satan, hiding fossils all over the Earth like the Easter Bunny hiding colored eggs.
No matter how many times I "try again," your "faith" will not be swayed by reason, evidence, facts, and logic, so there's really no point.
I considered your arguments and found them to be wholly unconvincing. But thank you for your time.
And that something came from nothing. Which is more plausible?
And that something came from nothing. Which is more plausible?
That something came from nothing. Trust me, if Stephen Hawking believes that and you believe the Bible, you lose.
You have defended several things which I find abhorrent. First, the government's, in this case Mayor Parker's, use of any political strategy which seems aimed at stifling freedom of speech or religion. Since the city pulled back demands to see the speeches, it would seem it was an intimidation tactic. Second, the Colorado and Oregon bakers. You really want to go down the path of having people pick their professions based on what the government.promotes? Really?! As to your point about "it's not in the constitution, but that is why we pass legislation". - really? I believe President Obama, a constitutional lawyer, stated the Constituion is a negative document, not a positive one - in other words it limits what government can do rather than articulate what government should do. Great, legislators, presidents and judges don't like to be limited, but if you want to enjoy your freedoms, let us hope they are restrained by the rule of law and in particular laws which limits their power. Using government to excessively force individuals to do things against their wills is tyranny.
A few facts which influence my thoughts. I spent an extended period of time traveling in Communist Eastern Europe - seeing first hand what soft tyranny looks like. I've been to or lived in 65 countries and my wife has done about 70. We've seen or experienced nearly every conceivable governmental system. I recognize the nasty realities of our governmental system - poverty, discrimination, inequality, etc. That said, liberty and the freedom to choose has a price and that price is a messy system. But so does every other system. But our system hasn't put a bullet in the back of people's skulls like National Socialism (Nazis, Peronists, Ba'athists, Nation Front, etc) and the other multitudes of Socialistic systems (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Mao's Little Red Book of Socialism, Kahdafi's Little Green Book of Islamic Socialism, Khomer Rouge, etc) out there. I believe in the last Century socialism killed over a hundred million in pogroms, genocides, etc. As a final note, I believe our nation has moved strongly in the direction of National Socialism (ever since Woodrow Wilson), a belief based on a firm understanding of what this political philosophy means. This is a scary direction and I would encourage you to really reflect what will happen if we continue further down this path.
So which version do you think most likely happened?
Btw, no and no to Santa Claus, and the Tooth Fairy because they're not pertinent to how, and why we exist.
Quote:
So which version do you think most likely happened?
I'm not the right person to ask. You should ask a cosmologist. I am just an engineer who was part of teams that built, tested, and launched satellites and a space probe (currently in the asteroid belt).
In my view, they have as much to do with how, and why, we exist as God does.
What does a hairdresser, and makeup artist have to do with anything? There's always time for a laugh, we can't take life (however it came to be) serious all the time.;)