I can't say why regarding Apple Music, but there's a good chance ATV4 was released now specifically for the holiday quarter but I get what you're saying. You can make a case that Apple Watch should be added to that list.
"Quite honestly I think Eddy Cue has done a mediocre job running services and perhaps Cook needs to replace him or give some of his workload to someone else."
I've agreed with for awhile now.
I like my ?Watch but I agree that it's rough around the edges too. In the case of the Watch I really do think there was pressure to release something. Everyone was looking for the next thing from Apple and there was a constant drumbeat of what's next and Apple's not innovating, just doing incremental updates. Also I think Apple didn't want to let Google get a head start with being the wearable platform for 3rd party apps. As far as Eddy Cue goes, I think he has way too much on his plate. His focus should be content - iTunes, App Store, Apple Music and ?TV. Let someone else run iCloud, maps, Siri and ?Pay. And if he has any oversight of Apple's first party apps like iWork give that to Schiller or Federighi.
tvOS *is* iOS but instead of UIKit, it's using TVKit. It's pretty easy to understand. The UI is just one component of iOS which can be easily separated out and a different high-level user interface framework replacing it. WatchOS is fundamentally different and runs on different hardware completely.
I like my ?Watch but I agree that it's rough around the edges too. In the case of the Watch I really do think there was pressure to release something. Everyone was looking for the next thing from Apple and there was a constant drumbeat of what's next and Apple's not innovating, just doing incremental updates. Also I think Apple didn't want to let Google get a head start with being the wearable platform for 3rd party apps. As far as Eddy Cue goes, I think he has way too much on his plate. His focus should be content - iTunes, App Store, Apple Music and ?TV. Let someone else run iCloud, maps, Siri and ?Pay. And if he has any oversight of Apple's first party apps like iWork give that to Schiller or Federighi.
"His focus should be content - iTunes, App Store, Apple Music and ?TV. Let someone else run iCloud, maps, Siri and ?Pay. "
Good point. And they should give control of iWork, iMovie, Photos, Garagaband, LPX, FCPX, etc. to a 3rd person. I'm pretty sure Schiller & Federighi already have enough on their plate.
"His focus should be content - iTunes, App Store, Apple Music and ?TV. Let someone else run iCloud, maps, Siri and ?Pay. "
Good point. And they should give control of iWork, iMovie, Photos, Garagaband, LPX, FCPX, etc. to a 3rd person. I'm pretty sure Schiller & Federighi already have enough on their plate.
I agree with that, though I don't think it requires an SVP level position. I think iCloud/Siri/Maps/Apple Pay does. iCloud especially.
Honestly I get the feeling all these guys are overworked. If you read that New Yorker piece on Jony Ive there were times where he was almost falling asleep during some of the interviews. And he caught pneumonia towards the end of 2014 because he said he had worked himself into not being well. Go on Glassdoor and the number one employee complaint is work/life balance.
What exactly is so wrong with the new Apple TV that it was "not ready for release"? Aside from the remote app not working, it seems to work perfectly. The App Store works great, they now have released Top Charts... it's a completely new market segment that seems to be going off with nary a hitch and some how they've failed? The issues you have stated can be easily added to tvOS at any time (and Apple does that, gasp!)
What exactly is so wrong with the new Apple TV that it was "not ready for release"? Aside from the remote app not working, it seems to work perfectly. The App Store works great, they now have released Top Charts... it's a completely new market segment that seems to be going off with nary a hitch and some how they've failed? The issues you have stated can be easily added to tvOS at any time (and Apple does that, gasp!)
No one's said they've failed. Far from it. I just get the feeling they're rushing to get things out the door on some arbitrary schedule, which goes against their own philosophy / culture.
Baloney! The new remote is fantastic. I totally reject your opinion. Siri is great. The touch pad is great. Don’t like it? Return it!
Well, that is your opinion, but most find it annoying to use. Swiping and trying to land a floating cursor on an icon, or worse, small letters in the horizontal alphabet is tedious. Swiping on a touch interface that you actually touch, is a completely different experience. Swiping to navigate something on a screen 10 feet or more in the distance is a challenge. Thankfully, any previous remote, or universal remote can be used so you can click to exactly what you want. Explain how Siri is great, when it only supports a small number of apps. Even the App Store is not supported with Siri. Most watch content from their local library, which Siri does not support. So how is Siri useful when it primarily only finds content to buy from iTunes? They pushed Siri like crazy, but it is barely supported. The remote is light and flimsy, not weighted to indicate the bottom or the top. The buttons are identical in the middle of the remote, so it is easy to flip it the wrong way, especially in a dimly lit room. The original remote was easy to handle and you knew exactly if it was in your hand correctly.
Read some reviews and comments. Many people ARE returning it for a refund with similar complaints. I returned both of mine this morning. The third-party apps, such as Netflix and HBO Go are worse than the versions in the AppleTV3, and worse than those on a SmartTV. How is that progress? Now apps no longer have to follow the AppleTV UI, so you have a bunch of apps with inconsistent interfaces. People might as well use the apps in their SmartTV or TiVo box, since the new AppleTV apps are similar in appearance, but lack some features. Now nothing makes the AppleTV stand out as a better product since the apps are identical across devices. The Netflix app no longer allows you to search or browse various genres or program types. HBO Go has a tiny blue indicator that is hard to see, and fonts so small you cannot read them from your preferred seating area. The prior UI offered so much more as far as search and recommendations, and it was consistent in all apps. So $149/$199 gets you a cloudy white interface (horrible to look at in a dim or dark room), poorly implemented apps that match their SmartTV counterparts in appearance, but less features, Siri that is very limited in use, and a poorly implemented remote. Most don't see that as progress. I could not imagine trying to control a game with that remote! I got mine on Friday and only opened one. I used it all weekend, and tried to like it, but when I tried to use the apps compared to the AppleTV3, I knew right away it was going back. It does not offer any significant improvement over the AppleTV3, especially not worth the price tag. Maybe one day when they get enough feedback from customers, they might force the developers to retain the AppleTV UI, but for now it is not worth replacing the AppleTV3. Just compare the Netflix apps and the AppleTV3 version is far superior.
Apple Siri should be option to use if you own a Siri-capable iPhone or iPad. Include it for family members that don't have access to their own iOS device, but don't force it's use. It's not that comfortable in hand, and it's a relatively poor experience.
It should not be difficult to have an updated Remote app, or whatever they call it, be a great in-your-hand or in-your-lap extension of the ATV interface, including a virtual touch button to capture Siri requests and send to the TV
And bring back IP control protocols like Apple had fully enabled in ATV3. All remote control software now, such as Simple Control, sold on the App Store, are dead in the water without it - and it worked beautifully before. I'd think Apple would want to encourage people to use iPhones or iPads as a richer way to interface with ATV. The handheld remote is not ergonomically well thought out, and its forced use is several years backward.
The new Remote and IP control functionality should have been implemented in concert with the overall product design - I'm rather shocked it was forgotten or purposely not developed.
I'm betting it's going to be compatible with the iOS and WatchOS remote apps. We'll see. I just played with one in the Apple Store for the first time ever today, and was very impressed. Going to be picking one up for sure.
You'll change your mind when you see the Netflix app. It is even missing features that are included in the SmartTV version. The horizontal layout of alpha characters is a pain to navigate when searching or entering IDs and passwords. The remote is poorly designed, easy to flip around and not know which way is up. Not worth replacing the AppleTV3 at $149/$199.
They need to add a universal sign on for Cable provider so you don't have to activate every channel manually. And really Apple, no support for your own Bluetooth keyboard. That's just sad.
You'll change your mind when you see the Netflix app. It is even missing features that are included in the SmartTV version. The horizontal layout of alpha characters is a pain to navigate when searching or entering IDs and passwords. The remote is poorly designed, easy to flip around and not know which way is up. Not worth replacing the AppleTV3 at $149/$199.
Hmmm... Okay, well fair enough. I didn't have a chance to check out Netflix at the ? Store, so I'll have to take your word for it. All I can say is I was pretty impressed with what I was able to play around with while I was there.
And In response to your earlier comment, from my small time with the remote I found I really liked using it. However, as you said, using it in a dimly lit room and not really knowing which way is up may be difficult. I'll have to see with prolonged use if that is a problem for me. I must say though, I surprisingly enjoyed using it while playing Asphalt 8. Also, re: your concerns over the inconsistenct app UI's and your suggestion to just use the smartTV UI; unfortunately does not apply with me as my TV is not a smartTV. Partly why I wanted ? TV was to make my TV "smart," so I will have to see how that works out for me.
I do thank you for the heads up with your concerns, though. I am still excited to purchase my ? TV, but I will have to see after some personal use if any of those things you mentioned hamper my enjoyment.
The siri worked but only showed me programs from iTunes but that could easily be my search not including anything from Netflix. I think Siri is clever but it remains useless unless it can search across multiple databases.
thankfully for the rest of us, thats exactly how it works on ATV.
Im sick of all the excuses on fan sites when someone asks a question.
youre probably as sick of that as i am of reading all the moaning & hand-waiving by people expecting 100% perfect devices. miracles on earth. powered by unicorn dust.
reality -- these are tools & devices made by people just like us, and nothings perfect. thankfully, software can be updated and it usually gets improved.
that isnt what he said. he asked what about the ATV is so failed that it "isnt' ready for release", as was most certainly claimed on this very thread. rogifan: "and now Apple TV we have two products/services that clearly were released before they were ready"
the ATV is ready to be released. an aux iOS app isnt mandatory functionality for the device itself. thus the release.
Hmmm... Okay, well fair enough. I didn't have a chance to check out Netflix at the ? Store, so I'll have to take your word for it. All I can say is I was pretty impressed with what I was able to play around with while I was there.
And In response to your earlier comment, from my small time with the remote I found I really liked using it. However, as you said, using it in a dimly lit room and not really knowing which way is up may be difficult. I'll have to see with prolonged use if that is a problem for me. I must say though, I surprisingly enjoyed using it while playing Asphalt 8. Also, re: your concerns over the inconsistenct app UI's and your suggestion to just use the smartTV UI; unfortunately does not apply with me as my TV is not a smartTV. Partly why I wanted ? TV was to make my TV "smart," so I will have to see how that works out for me.
I do thank you for the heads up with your concerns, though. I am still excited to purchase my ? TV, but I will have to see after some personal use if any of those things you mentioned hamper my enjoyment.
I understand you do not have a SmartTV. The point I was making was that people chose the AppleTV because the app UI was far superior compared to the apps in a SmartTV, Blu-Ray, or other streaming box. Netflix in the AppleTV2/3 was so much better than the version in a TV or other streaming box. It was easy to navigate, select what you want, and search or browse specific genres. That is what made the AppleTV stand out. The new AppleTV loses all that. The Netflix version in the AppleTV4 mimics the SmartTV version, but missing features. You cannot search or browse genres. You cannot see details on a specific program and highlight different actors to see what else they are featured in. That is all gone. It is difficult to see what episode you are hovering over because there is no indicator. So now the AppleTV is no different than a SmartTV or other streaming box because the apps no longer use the AppleTV UI. It is unfortunate because I wanted to like the new AppleTV, but not with the lousy apps that mimic the SmartTV versions. The horizontal layout of the alphabet for searching, etc. is a pain to use, especially with the new remote. Takes longer to enter information trying to swipe and land on a letter. Sure, things can be fixed in software, but I don't think the third-party vendors will change their apps. Give it a try, see if you like it. Adding an app store and changing the interface from black to white does not justify the huge price increase. Siri does not offer much help either to make it worth it. Many apps require in-app purchases to view content, not something many people want to do.
Well, that is your opinion, but most find it annoying to use.
cite your claim please -- because i think youre just making that up.
Swiping to navigate something on a screen 10 feet or more in the distance is a challenge.
works for me.
Explain how Siri is great, when it only supports a small number of apps.
simple, its great for what it does -- search for content in apps that have implemented it, and for navigating during viewing ("what'd he say?" "go back 20 seconds", "subtitles", etc). that it doesnt cure cancer doesnt make it not great at its job.
Most watch content from their local library,
nonsense. techies do, but not most people.
how is Siri useful when it primarily only finds content to buy from iTunes?
patently false. do you actually own one?
it is easy to flip it the wrong way, especially in a dimly lit room. The original remote was easy to handle and you knew exactly if it was in your hand correctly.
i agree with that.
The third-party apps, such as Netflix and HBO Go are worse than the versions in the AppleTV3,
thats absurd and not the ATV's problem, any more than it's microsoft's fault there are crummy windows apps.
Comments
I think the new remote works great. Couldn't be happier with it.
I like my ?Watch but I agree that it's rough around the edges too. In the case of the Watch I really do think there was pressure to release something. Everyone was looking for the next thing from Apple and there was a constant drumbeat of what's next and Apple's not innovating, just doing incremental updates. Also I think Apple didn't want to let Google get a head start with being the wearable platform for 3rd party apps. As far as Eddy Cue goes, I think he has way too much on his plate. His focus should be content - iTunes, App Store, Apple Music and ?TV. Let someone else run iCloud, maps, Siri and ?Pay. And if he has any oversight of Apple's first party apps like iWork give that to Schiller or Federighi.
tvOS *is* iOS but instead of UIKit, it's using TVKit. It's pretty easy to understand. The UI is just one component of iOS which can be easily separated out and a different high-level user interface framework replacing it. WatchOS is fundamentally different and runs on different hardware completely.
I like the remote too. Not sure why people are complaining about it.
I like my ?Watch but I agree that it's rough around the edges too. In the case of the Watch I really do think there was pressure to release something. Everyone was looking for the next thing from Apple and there was a constant drumbeat of what's next and Apple's not innovating, just doing incremental updates. Also I think Apple didn't want to let Google get a head start with being the wearable platform for 3rd party apps. As far as Eddy Cue goes, I think he has way too much on his plate. His focus should be content - iTunes, App Store, Apple Music and ?TV. Let someone else run iCloud, maps, Siri and ?Pay. And if he has any oversight of Apple's first party apps like iWork give that to Schiller or Federighi.
"His focus should be content - iTunes, App Store, Apple Music and ?TV. Let someone else run iCloud, maps, Siri and ?Pay. "
Good point. And they should give control of iWork, iMovie, Photos, Garagaband, LPX, FCPX, etc. to a 3rd person. I'm pretty sure Schiller & Federighi already have enough on their plate.
I agree with that, though I don't think it requires an SVP level position. I think iCloud/Siri/Maps/Apple Pay does. iCloud especially.
Honestly I get the feeling all these guys are overworked. If you read that New Yorker piece on Jony Ive there were times where he was almost falling asleep during some of the interviews. And he caught pneumonia towards the end of 2014 because he said he had worked himself into not being well. Go on Glassdoor and the number one employee complaint is work/life balance.
What exactly is so wrong with the new Apple TV that it was "not ready for release"? Aside from the remote app not working, it seems to work perfectly. The App Store works great, they now have released Top Charts... it's a completely new market segment that seems to be going off with nary a hitch and some how they've failed? The issues you have stated can be easily added to tvOS at any time (and Apple does that, gasp!)
What exactly is so wrong with the new Apple TV that it was "not ready for release"? Aside from the remote app not working, it seems to work perfectly. The App Store works great, they now have released Top Charts... it's a completely new market segment that seems to be going off with nary a hitch and some how they've failed? The issues you have stated can be easily added to tvOS at any time (and Apple does that, gasp!)
No one's said they've failed. Far from it. I just get the feeling they're rushing to get things out the door on some arbitrary schedule, which goes against their own philosophy / culture.
Baloney! The new remote is fantastic. I totally reject your opinion. Siri is great. The touch pad is great. Don’t like it? Return it!
Well, that is your opinion, but most find it annoying to use. Swiping and trying to land a floating cursor on an icon, or worse, small letters in the horizontal alphabet is tedious. Swiping on a touch interface that you actually touch, is a completely different experience. Swiping to navigate something on a screen 10 feet or more in the distance is a challenge. Thankfully, any previous remote, or universal remote can be used so you can click to exactly what you want. Explain how Siri is great, when it only supports a small number of apps. Even the App Store is not supported with Siri. Most watch content from their local library, which Siri does not support. So how is Siri useful when it primarily only finds content to buy from iTunes? They pushed Siri like crazy, but it is barely supported. The remote is light and flimsy, not weighted to indicate the bottom or the top. The buttons are identical in the middle of the remote, so it is easy to flip it the wrong way, especially in a dimly lit room. The original remote was easy to handle and you knew exactly if it was in your hand correctly.
Read some reviews and comments. Many people ARE returning it for a refund with similar complaints. I returned both of mine this morning. The third-party apps, such as Netflix and HBO Go are worse than the versions in the AppleTV3, and worse than those on a SmartTV. How is that progress? Now apps no longer have to follow the AppleTV UI, so you have a bunch of apps with inconsistent interfaces. People might as well use the apps in their SmartTV or TiVo box, since the new AppleTV apps are similar in appearance, but lack some features. Now nothing makes the AppleTV stand out as a better product since the apps are identical across devices. The Netflix app no longer allows you to search or browse various genres or program types. HBO Go has a tiny blue indicator that is hard to see, and fonts so small you cannot read them from your preferred seating area. The prior UI offered so much more as far as search and recommendations, and it was consistent in all apps. So $149/$199 gets you a cloudy white interface (horrible to look at in a dim or dark room), poorly implemented apps that match their SmartTV counterparts in appearance, but less features, Siri that is very limited in use, and a poorly implemented remote. Most don't see that as progress. I could not imagine trying to control a game with that remote! I got mine on Friday and only opened one. I used it all weekend, and tried to like it, but when I tried to use the apps compared to the AppleTV3, I knew right away it was going back. It does not offer any significant improvement over the AppleTV3, especially not worth the price tag. Maybe one day when they get enough feedback from customers, they might force the developers to retain the AppleTV UI, but for now it is not worth replacing the AppleTV3. Just compare the Netflix apps and the AppleTV3 version is far superior.
tvOS is strongly tied to iOS, so makes sense to sync the major versions up with iOS.
The AppleTV2 and AppleTV3 were already running iOS with a different UI. tvOS is a silly name and all it adds is an app store.
It should not be difficult to have an updated Remote app, or whatever they call it, be a great in-your-hand or in-your-lap extension of the ATV interface, including a virtual touch button to capture Siri requests and send to the TV
And bring back IP control protocols like Apple had fully enabled in ATV3. All remote control software now, such as Simple Control, sold on the App Store, are dead in the water without it - and it worked beautifully before. I'd think Apple would want to encourage people to use iPhones or iPads as a richer way to interface with ATV. The handheld remote is not ergonomically well thought out, and its forced use is several years backward.
The new Remote and IP control functionality should have been implemented in concert with the overall product design - I'm rather shocked it was forgotten or purposely not developed.
I'm betting it's going to be compatible with the iOS and WatchOS remote apps. We'll see. I just played with one in the Apple Store for the first time ever today, and was very impressed. Going to be picking one up for sure.
You'll change your mind when you see the Netflix app. It is even missing features that are included in the SmartTV version. The horizontal layout of alpha characters is a pain to navigate when searching or entering IDs and passwords. The remote is poorly designed, easy to flip around and not know which way is up. Not worth replacing the AppleTV3 at $149/$199.
Hmmm... Okay, well fair enough. I didn't have a chance to check out Netflix at the ? Store, so I'll have to take your word for it. All I can say is I was pretty impressed with what I was able to play around with while I was there.
And In response to your earlier comment, from my small time with the remote I found I really liked using it. However, as you said, using it in a dimly lit room and not really knowing which way is up may be difficult. I'll have to see with prolonged use if that is a problem for me. I must say though, I surprisingly enjoyed using it while playing Asphalt 8. Also, re: your concerns over the inconsistenct app UI's and your suggestion to just use the smartTV UI; unfortunately does not apply with me as my TV is not a smartTV. Partly why I wanted ? TV was to make my TV "smart," so I will have to see how that works out for me.
I do thank you for the heads up with your concerns, though. I am still excited to purchase my ? TV, but I will have to see after some personal use if any of those things you mentioned hamper my enjoyment.
thankfully for the rest of us, thats exactly how it works on ATV.
youre probably as sick of that as i am of reading all the moaning & hand-waiving by people expecting 100% perfect devices. miracles on earth. powered by unicorn dust.
reality -- these are tools & devices made by people just like us, and nothings perfect. thankfully, software can be updated and it usually gets improved.
that isnt what he said. he asked what about the ATV is so failed that it "isnt' ready for release", as was most certainly claimed on this very thread. rogifan: "and now Apple TV we have two products/services that clearly were released before they were ready"
the ATV is ready to be released. an aux iOS app isnt mandatory functionality for the device itself. thus the release.
Hmmm... Okay, well fair enough. I didn't have a chance to check out Netflix at the ? Store, so I'll have to take your word for it. All I can say is I was pretty impressed with what I was able to play around with while I was there.
And In response to your earlier comment, from my small time with the remote I found I really liked using it. However, as you said, using it in a dimly lit room and not really knowing which way is up may be difficult. I'll have to see with prolonged use if that is a problem for me. I must say though, I surprisingly enjoyed using it while playing Asphalt 8. Also, re: your concerns over the inconsistenct app UI's and your suggestion to just use the smartTV UI; unfortunately does not apply with me as my TV is not a smartTV. Partly why I wanted ? TV was to make my TV "smart," so I will have to see how that works out for me.
I do thank you for the heads up with your concerns, though. I am still excited to purchase my ? TV, but I will have to see after some personal use if any of those things you mentioned hamper my enjoyment.
I understand you do not have a SmartTV. The point I was making was that people chose the AppleTV because the app UI was far superior compared to the apps in a SmartTV, Blu-Ray, or other streaming box. Netflix in the AppleTV2/3 was so much better than the version in a TV or other streaming box. It was easy to navigate, select what you want, and search or browse specific genres. That is what made the AppleTV stand out. The new AppleTV loses all that. The Netflix version in the AppleTV4 mimics the SmartTV version, but missing features. You cannot search or browse genres. You cannot see details on a specific program and highlight different actors to see what else they are featured in. That is all gone. It is difficult to see what episode you are hovering over because there is no indicator. So now the AppleTV is no different than a SmartTV or other streaming box because the apps no longer use the AppleTV UI. It is unfortunate because I wanted to like the new AppleTV, but not with the lousy apps that mimic the SmartTV versions. The horizontal layout of the alphabet for searching, etc. is a pain to use, especially with the new remote. Takes longer to enter information trying to swipe and land on a letter. Sure, things can be fixed in software, but I don't think the third-party vendors will change their apps. Give it a try, see if you like it. Adding an app store and changing the interface from black to white does not justify the huge price increase. Siri does not offer much help either to make it worth it. Many apps require in-app purchases to view content, not something many people want to do.
cite your claim please -- because i think youre just making that up.
works for me.
simple, its great for what it does -- search for content in apps that have implemented it, and for navigating during viewing ("what'd he say?" "go back 20 seconds", "subtitles", etc). that it doesnt cure cancer doesnt make it not great at its job.
nonsense. techies do, but not most people.
patently false. do you actually own one?
i agree with that.
thats absurd and not the ATV's problem, any more than it's microsoft's fault there are crummy windows apps.