Billions of dollars and several years later also hasn't stopped Intel either.
Only Apple will be able to take on Intel with respect to CPU design.
Intel's laptop CPUs handily beat Qualcomm's mobile offerings.
Windows 10 running on an Intel CPU will be an awfully hard combination to beat going forward. Especially with the ability to run the breadth of Android applications.
The Windows guys are literally salivating at the prospect of taking away Android's ARM market share. They have good reason too. The buzzards are beginning to circle. Google is worried. And what they are proposing reeks of desperation.
Sure, the Intel processor will handily beat Qualcomm's current offering. The caveat is that Intel is pricing those processors at quite a premium, and most consumers would probably acknowledge that current premium Android OS phones or iPhone have more than adequate performance.
So what is MS actually bringing to mobile that consumers want? I apologize in advance, but I'm not seeing it.
Sure, the Intel processor will handily beat Qualcomm's current offering. The caveat is that Intel is pricing those processors at quite a premium, and most consumers would probably acknowledge that current premium Android OS phones or iPhone have more than adequate performance.
So what is MS actually bringing to mobile that consumers want? I apologize in advance, but I'm not seeing it.
Microsoft is bringing the ability to run legacy Windows applications. There are still a host of Windows programs that would be nice to run on a phone, even with a cramped screen. On a tablet the issue is much less of a problem. The Surface pro as a tablet is a very capable platform. Running Android and its multitude of apps makes it far more compelling. Especially when it's on the company budget. And my company is forking out a lot of dollars buying these surface things for the employees. The machine is far more capable than anything outside of the iPad Air 2 from what I am seeing. I have no experience with the iPad pro however.
For gaming or CPU intensive software, it would be a disaster if a Windows tablet, much less phone runs Android software better, faster and more capably than a native high end Android device such as the Samsung. Even the few high end Android buyers will move off the Android-ARM platform and over to Windows running Android. Especially with Windows providing more memory to the application and with a better GPU for portable gaming.
If MSFT and INTC can bring a competitively priced machine to the market that outperforms any other Android device, it will sell very well.
I am an Apple guy but have lots of old Windows software including print drivers for old hardware sitting in a closet. A Surface or Surface Pro that would allow me to install the software, use my legacy devices while running all of the new fangled Android apps would be extremely nice. A native Android device is a non-starter. But Windows running an android runtime environment allows me the best of both worlds. And there are a lot of people with legacy software and hardware based on Windows. For those that have a Windows laptop and an Android phone, ditching the phone in the next upgrade process for a Windows phablet running Android makes a lot of sense to me.
Microsoft would have no compunction in taking Google's search engine off any and all Windows devices, both desktop and mobile. Hence Google's/Alphabet's precarious position.
MS has finally made a (small) profit on Bing after losing money since beginning. So if it scales, it can start sucking away Google business.
But it's Apple that has made it possible to search (Spotlight) without using Google or Bing that should keep Google up at night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbivore
With Apple's marketshare, MSFT does not have to worry about the monopoly issue in taking on Google head on. And that's where they are headed. Google is now in a race against time.
My thinking is that Google has already run out of time. Apple has already released HW and SW that Google can't match. Apple spent years after putting together their SoC (ARM CPU/GPU) design team to release their first Ax SoC. If somehow, someone could shit a ready-to-fab design in the next year... Apple will never let them catch up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbivore
They had better hope they can work with someone in coming up with a CPU that offers unique functionality on mobile devices running Android, that the functionality is a show stopper, and in a timely fashion before MSFT and INTC can release even better products. Otherwise, Android users will begin the migration back to Wintel. I've not seen many dump their iPads for a surface/surface pro. But with the release of the surface/surface pro, the Android tablets have nearly entirely disappeared. And MSFT can lock out Google search like they did with the Netscape browser all those years ago. This time without having to worry about antitrust issues given Apple's position.
Intel can fab ARM chips at Samsung prices, but they don't want to be just a fab house and compete on that thin margin business. Intel would like to design and fab and charge an arm and a leg, like they could with the X86 chips. I think they need to admit they had a good run, but the salad days are over. Intel isn't doing too bad turning out low-voltage X86 chips, but if ARM can grow an order-of-magnitude in computing power, then Intel will have to drop prices or lose users.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbivore
Siri and Cortana will be the next battlefield for search. Google's platform dreams are going to go up in a puff. They did themselves no favors in attempting to make Android a commodity model and worked with Intel porting Android onto x86. It's now going to come back and bite them hard. The unfortunate thing for them is that MSFT is going for the jugular.
Google's platform dreams are going up in smoke, but I think malware is going to be the match that burns down the house of mirrors. It's going to be a race to see which dog catches them first, but my money's on malware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbivore
Google is now going to be in a fight for it's very survival. And that fight is with MSFT, not Apple.
Personally, Google has to worry about both MS and Apple—AND their own self. No matter which product Google turns out, the product lacks a clear vision of how it's going to grow over time. Google is too much like a dog with ADHD and when someone yells, "SQUIRREL", they are off on another tack.
Google did take their focus off of MSFT and now have been caught off guard. MSFT is supreme at mastery of the commodity model. A model that Google was desperate to bring to the smartphone model. Now that they succeeded, they are now in a race to make Android hardware proprietary. It seems that MSFT has them very worried. Even with Windows locked to x86 CPUs.
Malware is truly an issue, but it doesn't seem to have slowed Android much. Apple has sucked the profits out of mobile. Now comes Microsoft ready to take whatever high users Android has left. And if MSFT succeeds and moves the Android market back on Wintel hardware, they will potentially be able to circumvent Google's ad revenues by moving those users over to Bing.
Unlike Apple who is targeting the high end of the market, MSFT is targeting the existing Android market, including the low end. Google really has no chance at the high end and if they also lose the low end, well, I won't be shedding any tears for their demise.
I think the current designs are well ahead of Apple who themselves use a hotter fast single tread core.
That is fine for a fast single thread app like Safari, but background apps like Facebook eat battery. Will 2016 be the year of the Big.Little Apple AX chip revolution?
Tablets and hybrids are really the only niche that MS has a chance of improving in, and I'm not seeing any huge benefit to MS from consumers switching from notebooks to hybrids; it seems a wash to me, contrary to the optimism that it will lead to improve ASP's.
Ultimately, Android OS has had good success with a breadth of offerings in mobile, and really only needs to up its game in tablets to block MS. A couple of decent ARM offerings from Qualcomm or Samsung, and Google is back in the game.
The immediate benefit to MS is selling $800-$1400 tablets and 2 in 1s under it's own brand rather than Dell and picking up the high end PC market margins.
The breadth of offerings for Windows is phones through Core i7 2 in 1s. There's no ARM offering that will match a Core i7 anytime soon.
Comments
Billions of dollars and several years later also hasn't stopped Intel either.
Only Apple will be able to take on Intel with respect to CPU design.
Intel's laptop CPUs handily beat Qualcomm's mobile offerings.
Windows 10 running on an Intel CPU will be an awfully hard combination to beat going forward. Especially with the ability to run the breadth of Android applications.
The Windows guys are literally salivating at the prospect of taking away Android's ARM market share. They have good reason too. The buzzards are beginning to circle. Google is worried. And what they are proposing reeks of desperation.
Sure, the Intel processor will handily beat Qualcomm's current offering. The caveat is that Intel is pricing those processors at quite a premium, and most consumers would probably acknowledge that current premium Android OS phones or iPhone have more than adequate performance.
So what is MS actually bringing to mobile that consumers want? I apologize in advance, but I'm not seeing it.
For gaming or CPU intensive software, it would be a disaster if a Windows tablet, much less phone runs Android software better, faster and more capably than a native high end Android device such as the Samsung. Even the few high end Android buyers will move off the Android-ARM platform and over to Windows running Android. Especially with Windows providing more memory to the application and with a better GPU for portable gaming.
If MSFT and INTC can bring a competitively priced machine to the market that outperforms any other Android device, it will sell very well.
I am an Apple guy but have lots of old Windows software including print drivers for old hardware sitting in a closet. A Surface or Surface Pro that would allow me to install the software, use my legacy devices while running all of the new fangled Android apps would be extremely nice. A native Android device is a non-starter. But Windows running an android runtime environment allows me the best of both worlds. And there are a lot of people with legacy software and hardware based on Windows. For those that have a Windows laptop and an Android phone, ditching the phone in the next upgrade process for a Windows phablet running Android makes a lot of sense to me.
Microsoft would have no compunction in taking Google's search engine off any and all Windows devices, both desktop and mobile. Hence Google's/Alphabet's precarious position.
MS has finally made a (small) profit on Bing after losing money since beginning. So if it scales, it can start sucking away Google business.
But it's Apple that has made it possible to search (Spotlight) without using Google or Bing that should keep Google up at night.
With Apple's marketshare, MSFT does not have to worry about the monopoly issue in taking on Google head on. And that's where they are headed. Google is now in a race against time.
My thinking is that Google has already run out of time. Apple has already released HW and SW that Google can't match. Apple spent years after putting together their SoC (ARM CPU/GPU) design team to release their first Ax SoC. If somehow, someone could shit a ready-to-fab design in the next year... Apple will never let them catch up.
They had better hope they can work with someone in coming up with a CPU that offers unique functionality on mobile devices running Android, that the functionality is a show stopper, and in a timely fashion before MSFT and INTC can release even better products. Otherwise, Android users will begin the migration back to Wintel. I've not seen many dump their iPads for a surface/surface pro. But with the release of the surface/surface pro, the Android tablets have nearly entirely disappeared. And MSFT can lock out Google search like they did with the Netscape browser all those years ago. This time without having to worry about antitrust issues given Apple's position.
Intel can fab ARM chips at Samsung prices, but they don't want to be just a fab house and compete on that thin margin business. Intel would like to design and fab and charge an arm and a leg, like they could with the X86 chips. I think they need to admit they had a good run, but the salad days are over. Intel isn't doing too bad turning out low-voltage X86 chips, but if ARM can grow an order-of-magnitude in computing power, then Intel will have to drop prices or lose users.
Siri and Cortana will be the next battlefield for search. Google's platform dreams are going to go up in a puff. They did themselves no favors in attempting to make Android a commodity model and worked with Intel porting Android onto x86. It's now going to come back and bite them hard. The unfortunate thing for them is that MSFT is going for the jugular.
Google's platform dreams are going up in smoke, but I think malware is going to be the match that burns down the house of mirrors. It's going to be a race to see which dog catches them first, but my money's on malware.
Google is now going to be in a fight for it's very survival. And that fight is with MSFT, not Apple.
Personally, Google has to worry about both MS and Apple—AND their own self. No matter which product Google turns out, the product lacks a clear vision of how it's going to grow over time. Google is too much like a dog with ADHD and when someone yells, "SQUIRREL", they are off on another tack.
You are so right about Google and ADHD.
Google did take their focus off of MSFT and now have been caught off guard. MSFT is supreme at mastery of the commodity model. A model that Google was desperate to bring to the smartphone model. Now that they succeeded, they are now in a race to make Android hardware proprietary. It seems that MSFT has them very worried. Even with Windows locked to x86 CPUs.
Malware is truly an issue, but it doesn't seem to have slowed Android much. Apple has sucked the profits out of mobile. Now comes Microsoft ready to take whatever high users Android has left. And if MSFT succeeds and moves the Android market back on Wintel hardware, they will potentially be able to circumvent Google's ad revenues by moving those users over to Bing.
Unlike Apple who is targeting the high end of the market, MSFT is targeting the existing Android market, including the low end. Google really has no chance at the high end and if they also lose the low end, well, I won't be shedding any tears for their demise.
That is fine for a fast single thread app like Safari, but background apps like Facebook eat battery.
Will 2016 be the year of the Big.Little Apple AX chip revolution?
Tablets and hybrids are really the only niche that MS has a chance of improving in, and I'm not seeing any huge benefit to MS from consumers switching from notebooks to hybrids; it seems a wash to me, contrary to the optimism that it will lead to improve ASP's.
Ultimately, Android OS has had good success with a breadth of offerings in mobile, and really only needs to up its game in tablets to block MS. A couple of decent ARM offerings from Qualcomm or Samsung, and Google is back in the game.
The immediate benefit to MS is selling $800-$1400 tablets and 2 in 1s under it's own brand rather than Dell and picking up the high end PC market margins.
The breadth of offerings for Windows is phones through Core i7 2 in 1s. There's no ARM offering that will match a Core i7 anytime soon.