Microsoft's Surface Book 'tries too hard,' Tim Cook says

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  • Reply 61 of 71
    I don't think Cook actually meant that MS tried hard at producing a great product. More like they tried to do too many things that don't allow it to be a truly great product.

    Steve Jobs used to say he was just as proud of what he chose NOT to add to a product as what he did add.

    Focus Daniel-san.
  • Reply 62 of 71
    Pride comes before a fall! Steve Ballmer was the same when he scoffed at the iPhone back in 2007, we saw what happened. Now Tim Cook makes the pretty same mistake. I was an Apple Evangelist for nearly 15 years, but what Apple now produces is not what I like anymore. And this arrogance from Cook leads me to buy that awsome Surface Book as next machine, and the Lumia 950XL, well very interesting, too. Bye Apple, those were nice 15years, I don't look back in Anger.
  • Reply 63 of 71
    pistispistis Posts: 247member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CanukStorm View Post

     

    I'm gonna assume that those issues can probably be fixed, mostly through software updates




    Really, this has been the mantra of Windows users ever since the dawn of time, and has has really only led to more bloat and a worse experience

  • Reply 64 of 71
    Diluted. Tim was saying the Surface book is diluted. Not deluded. 2 different things. C'mon editors!

    That being said... Love you Ai!
  • Reply 65 of 71
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pistis View Post

     



    Really, this has been the mantra of Windows users ever since the dawn of time, and has has really only led to more bloat and a worse experience


    Isn't that the reality of tech today? Release then update / patch / iterate over time?

  • Reply 66 of 71
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,738member
    "It's trying to be a tablet and a notebook and it really succeeds at being neither. It's sort of deluded."


    Pretty sure that quote is supposed to be "diluted." Not "deluded."
  • Reply 67 of 71
    paul94544paul94544 Posts: 1,027member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CanukStorm View Post

     

    Isn't that the reality of tech today? Release then update / patch / iterate over time?


    Putting up with at best mediocre  downright flawed at it's worst yes has become what we users have become used to, does not mean that it is correct. This default expectation is very unproductive and is the reason why SJ used to say "we don't build crap". 

     

    Most electronics and software  is designed, built and assembled with no class or any passion.  Some of the intefaces look like they were designed by a complete idiot. Microsoft has become the laughing stock in this direction. I work in a MS only corporation and the enterprise version of Windows we run on our workstations gets periodic break, fixes and update almost every day. Most of these involve reboots. It's absolutely intolerable that we are forced to cope with this disaster of an OS. I have had my work station re-imaged several times over the years just to keep it running! This does not include the outages that regularly occur on the corporate exchange, servers, the messaging and   sharepoint servers

     

    The question becomes at what point does dealing with this garbage MS puts out actually become not worth the effort. Is IBM going to Apple a indicator of a continuing trend?

     

    The day I retire I will be "high fiving" my co-workers saying " I no longer have to put up with windows - AT LAST"

  • Reply 68 of 71
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

     

    Putting up with at best mediocre  downright flawed at it's worst yes has become what we users have become used to, does not mean that it is correct. This default expectation is very unproductive and is the reason why SJ used to say "we don't build crap". 

     

    Most electronics and software  is designed, built and assembled with no class or any passion.  Some of the intefaces look like they were designed by a complete idiot. Microsoft has become the laughing stock in this direction. I work in a MS only corporation and the enterprise version of Windows we run on our workstations gets periodic break, fixes and update almost every day. Most of these involve reboots. It's absolutely intolerable that we are forced to cope with this disaster of an OS. I have had my work station re-imaged several times over the years just to keep it running! This does not include the outages that regularly occur on the corporate exchange, servers, the messaging and   sharepoint servers

     

    The question becomes at what point does dealing with this garbage MS puts out actually become not worth the effort. Is IBM going to Apple a indicator of a continuing trend?

     

    The day I retire I will be "high fiving" my co-workers saying " I no longer have to put up with windows - AT LAST"


    I am not saying it is correct.  Just pointing out what I observe. Anecdotally of course.

  • Reply 69 of 71
    If Apple had produced the Surface Book, the people commenting here would be fainting in the streets.

    For years now, Windows PCs have all had touch screens and have been far advanced over Apple PCs. Even the Apple people who have fully drunk the Kool Aid are starting to see this.

    If you want to compare the Surface Book to Apple technologies do this. On one side of the scale place a fully loaded Surface Book. On the other side place a fully loaded Mac Book Pro plus a fully loaded iPad Pro. THAT is the comparison in technologies. The Apple stack is a good 1.5 times the weight of the Surface Pro. For price, the fully loaded Surface Pro & Mac Pro both come in at about $3200. Add to that another $1500 for the iPad Pro with its stylus and keyboard.

    You probably don't like this comparison but for all of you who have both an Apple laptop and an Apple tablet, it is very accurate. And it is accurate from every other point of view. If you have both an Apple tablet and an MacBook Pro, you have pathetically outdated attempt to match the Surface Book.

    The simple reality is this. For businesses, large and small, and anyone who works for them, it is Microsoft software that has helped them to put bread on the table for thirty five years now.

    Apple has become Apple by selling not technology, but jewelry and status symbols. But people are starting to see through it. The iPad Pro is a dead ringer, in every way, for the Surface Pro - at the skin deep level. If you have any sense at all you know that the iPad is half brain dead compared to the Surface Pro. The Surface Pro is a full blown sixth generation Core i7 with 16 GB of RAM running Windows 10 and all that that implies. iPad Pro claiming, as though it is a miracle, that it can run apps in split screen. Really? The 1990s called, it wants its split screen back.

    As the quote from Good Morning Vietnam put it, right now Apple doesn't know if it's been shot, F---ed, powder burned or snake bit. It has been left so far behind, and caught so flatfooted that it's not funny. Pile an iPad Pro on top of a MacBook, then set a Surface Book down next to it. It's a sorry sight. And the more you actually use a Surface Book and Windows 10, the sorrier and sorrier it looks for Apple.
  • Reply 70 of 71
    paul94544paul94544 Posts: 1,027member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by alumis View Post

     

    M$ wants tablet to be a form factor.  Apple sees tablet as a unique platform.  The SB is just M$' latest riff on their differing take.  

     

    Let's face it, Tim Cook is a great "product guy" - good enough that Job's handed him the key to the city at sunset.  But Cook is no visionary.  He's not even much of a techie if he's honestly not using a laptop or desktop anymore.  Under his watch we've seen the Apple Watch, Apple Music, and supersized iDevices - all good, but hardly visionary, products.  So, I'm going to take his criticisms of others' work with a grain of salt.


    Yes mister 1 post wonder

  • Reply 71 of 71
    paul94544paul94544 Posts: 1,027member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

     



    Agreed. I like that Microsoft is trying something different. It's better than a competitor that's simply trying to copy everything you do, the instant you do it. If MS pulls it off, great. If not, at least they explored a different trail and gave us options. I'd love to be able to use modo or ZBrush on a Mac tablet, but I understand the reasons Apple doesn't think laptops and desktops are great fits for the touch paradigm.


    I  can think of only 4 gestures suited for a laptop or desktop screen

     

    1) Pinch to zoom

    2) swipe 

    3) touch and hold  to drag a window

    4) double tap to open

     

    Doing these with a mouse is petty tedious because it involves many operations for instance like: find mouse, locate pointer on screen drag mouse to a location, in case of zoom must go to  menu drop down and click a zoom setting. with the others similar series of operations are needed too.

     

    Seems to me that these operations are quicker with gestures as long as one is not holding up one's whole arm up for too long. Try holding your hand up in front of you for even 20 seconds and see how it feels. Imagine doing that for hours on end! A quick  hand gesture up to the screen very occasionally is okay i think. As long as I'm not lifting my hand up frequently to perform these gestures Excessive use of touch on a laptop is ridiculous.

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