When someone has a bad idea before a tragic event, and the tragic event makes them say their same idea louder, the bad idea doesn't become a good idea, and they're not reacting to the event, they're exploiting it.
My understanding is that under the current situation, even if Homeland Security gets the evidence of unlawful activity - and subsequently a warrant - it is technically impossible to get access to the private data without the owner knowing about it (and giving you their passcodes). So what happens when you have evidence against a person but you want to catch them in the planning act in order to broaden your understanding of the threat and the other participants? You can't do that anymore. That was (once upon a time) a huge advantage for homeland security. Don't discount the importance just because we all cherish our privacy and fear the government. There is a proper balance somewhere.
The most dangerous crimes usually involve conspiracy. They should physically surveil people who have raised enough suspicision and get the information they need by making a deal with the little guy to squeal on the big guy. Consider that in the past a lot of this digital evidence wouldn't even have existed. It would have been private conversations that took place in person or by courier or some other means that it would not even be possible to know about unless you were there. There was no equivalent to a web search history even 30 years ago. The entire premise that the existence of electronic communication should allow the government the ability and power to know more about the people than they did a hundred years ago is debatable.
The most dangerous crimes usually involve conspiracy.
Uh oh. Better get out your tin foil; the very concept of a “conspiracy” is insane!
They should physically surveil people who have raised enough suspicision and get the information they need by making a deal with the little guy to squeal on the big guy.
I’ve never liked deals in criminal trials, but that’s me.
The entire premise that the existence of electronic communication should allow the government the ability and power to know more about the people than they did a hundred years ago is debatable.
I rather think there’s no debate. The government has no such power, has never had such power, and will never have such power. New technologies coming into existence don’t inherently change the Constitution.
I have to agree. Not sure why people think email are somehow protected communications. You are correct, the NSA has been monitoring internet communication for a long time. I worked for a networking equipment company and one of our largest customers was the NSA. Back in the 90's they were running more fiber than any other company out there. They have more bandwidth coming into their facilities than most of the telecoms had at the time.
You know you send a letter in the US mail and the government can not open or touch it there are all kinds of laws in place to protect your snail mail. Not the same for emails, this is why companies now have signature lines on outgoing email that state the content of the email is only for the sender and recipient otherwise if is forward then it is free for anyone to look at and use.
In the case the government is just upset they can not use your own personal communications against you in court. They can not make your testify against yourself, but they sure feel that can use your emails against you.
It might surprise you to learn that every piece of mail that goes through the US postal service is scanned and recorded. And you might be interested to learn that various "three letter agencies" intercept package deliveries for the purpose of installing spyware and electronic monitoring equipment.
For example, strong encryption in iOS 8 and above makes it virtually impossible to eavesdrop on iMessage conversations or gain physical device access, even with appropriate warrants.
Just how does encryption prevent physical access to a device? Yes, it might contain a bunch of gibberish if unencrypted but you'd still have your hands on it.
Just how does encryption prevent physical access to a device? Yes, it might contain a bunch of gibberish if unencrypted but you'd still have your hands on it.
I have the impression that iMessages are not kept on Apple's servers, they are only kept on the devices (similar to BitTorrent). My understanding may not be accurate and if someone knows otherwise, say so.
I have the impression that iMessages are not kept on Apple's servers, they are only kept on the devices (similar to BitTorrent). My understanding may not be accurate and if someone knows otherwise, say so.
iMessages are kept on Apple's servers to a certain extent but are encrypted and only the end users have the private keys needed to decrypt them. Ever wonder how iMessages are synced between a Mac and iPhone using handoff?
I have the impression that iMessages are not kept on Apple's servers, they are only kept on the devices (similar to BitTorrent). My understanding may not be accurate and if someone knows otherwise, say so.
Don't back up iMessages to Apple's cloud servers if you want to make sure there's no access. Apple can't decrypt messages in transit, but does hold the encryption keys to anything stored in iCloud. Facetime is a bit unique in that there is not a backup of it anyplace.
iMessages are kept on Apple's servers to a certain extent but are encrypted and only the end users have the private keys needed to decrypt them. Ever wonder how iMessages are synced between a Mac and iPhone using handoff?
It might surprise you to learn that every piece of mail that goes through the US postal service is scanned and recorded. And you might be interested to learn that various "three letter agencies" intercept package deliveries for the purpose of installing spyware and electronic monitoring equipment.
Actually that does not surprised me since I have known this for a long time, I worked for one of the companies who designed the mail sorting systems the USPS uses, and they were a Mainframe computer company so they designed in ability to do this back in the 80's when they started to move away from people direction mail to the correct location to a OCR system that did it automatically. They always had the data, they are just now storing it so they can post process and analysis. But they are not ready the content of the mail. I also believe the NSA monitors who was sending mail to whom but not readying the actually content since that would require lots of storage, but we know today the NSA now has that storage capability.
On the package thing, I have seen posting by individual will their packages for no reason were being routed through the DC area verse through the normal shipping companies hubs. It was always thought that the NSA was peeking at those packages.
You mean the ones who weren’t citizens of the country in question and who owned guns? How about that.
There was no genocide. I bet you think Jackson’s actions were destructive to the Indioes, too.
All of Russia’s first-class aviation fuel was supplied by the USA. Their boots and most of the uniform material, as well. Blue rubber for their tires, all of their aluminum, fully ? of their munitions, over 500,000 trucks (all far better than the 200,000 Russia produced themselves during the war). Upgunned (76mm) Sherman tanks were a big part of the Russian drive through the Balkans, where hundreds of them participated and had a measure of success. Aerocobras, P40s, C-47s, and A-20s (18,000+) all considerably assisted the Russian war effort. Almost all telephone communication was over American phones. The Russians produced 92 railway locomotives; they got 2,000 through lend-lease.
Well over half the Luftwaffe was engaged in the west from 1942-5, and 75% of German aircraft casualties were against the western Allies. Each U-boat cost 5,000,000 Marks to build. The Germans built over 1,000. A Panther tank cost 117,000 Marks, That means about 40,000 tanks were not built so that the Germans could wage the War of the Atlantic. Think 40,000 panthers might have made a difference against an unallied Russia in the East? Each V2 rocket cost, in labor and material, the same as 3.5 fighter planes. The Germans launched over 3,000 V2s. Do the math on that.
The British and Americans deployed over 20,000 heavy bombers against the Germans, causing great destruction. The Russians never developed one. The Allies supplied 317,000 tons of explosive materials, including 22,000,000 shells–over half the total Soviet production of ~600,000 tons. Additionally, the Allies supplied 103,000 tons of toluene, the primary ingredient of TNT. In addition to explosives and ammunition, 991,000,000 miscellaneous shell cartridges were also provided to speed up the manufacturing of ammunition. In addition to military equipment, other wartime commodities were essential to the effort. These included 2,300,000 tons of steel, 229,000 tons of aluminum, 2,600,000 tons of petrol, 3,800,000 tons of foodstuffs, 56,445 field telephones, and 600,000 kilometers of telephone wire. The Soviet Union also received 15,000,000 pairs of army boots. Lend-lease aircraft amounted to 18% of all Soviet air forces–20% of bombers, 16% of all fighters, and 29% of naval aircraft.
There were also 10,000 heavy caliber anti-aircraft guns defending the Reich. Do you think those would have shored up German defenses in the East?
What would have happened if Rommel’s Africa Corps and the 30+ German divisions in France would have been in the don bend in fall 1942 protecting Stalingrad instead of waiting for British and American divisions to land? What would have happened if the 400,000 troops stationed in Norway could have helped Army Group North capture Leningrad? What would have happened if, in 1944, the German armies trying to hold the divisions fighting in Italy and the Balkans could have been freed to fight against the Russians in the south? What would have happened if, in 1944, the German armies trying to hold the Allies out of France could have been sent to Bylorussia prior to Bagatron? The Germans were never really able to muster more than half their strength against the Russians. They were fighting a technological war against the Brits and Americans that required a huge manufacturing effort.
Russia gives the western allies no credit for tying down so many German resources and destroying so many others (30% of 1944’s total production) with their strategic bombing campaign. Russians like to think themselves hard and are proud of the fact that over 20,000,000 Soviet soldiers died in WWII, when that only shows how useless and undisciplined Russian soldiers are.
A detailed and compelling work of fiction. If you wish to challenge your prejudices then read All Hell let Loose by Max Hastings.
A detailed and compelling work of fiction. If you wish to challenge your prejudices then read All Hell let Loose by Max Hastings.
I've read that book before. It's utter crap. Hasting's generalizations about the war are so wrong. I've never read so much exaggeration about WWII before. Hastings also gets a ton of facts wrong in the book. If you want to read about WWII, don't read anything from Hastings.
The real useful information, the networks of interconnected people, is already either open from company records or obscured beyond retrieval with burner phones.
Speaking personally, I would swap the minor loss of privacy in having the UK agencies access my E-Mail information sufficiently to eliminate me from their enquiries for the avoidance of an attack like that in Paris. 129 people dead is not something that I can take lightly and, in UK, I believe that the agencies are essentially dedicated to protecting the populace (bar the odd individual who might have a personal agenda but I'll take that chance).
The concern I do have is the principle that future regimes might abuse these powers: that's a different problem that needs constant vigilance and a free (and sometimes, in UK, noxious) press. In the present, we need to avoid a repeat of the events in Paris (and it's not the only occurrence).
I can't comment on the situation in the US. However, if you really think your government, in any country, is systematically abusing the population instead of serving and protecting it then you have a bigger problem than private E-Mails being read.
Comments
When someone has a bad idea before a tragic event, and the tragic event makes them say their same idea louder, the bad idea doesn't become a good idea, and they're not reacting to the event, they're exploiting it.
My understanding is that under the current situation, even if Homeland Security gets the evidence of unlawful activity - and subsequently a warrant - it is technically impossible to get access to the private data without the owner knowing about it (and giving you their passcodes). So what happens when you have evidence against a person but you want to catch them in the planning act in order to broaden your understanding of the threat and the other participants? You can't do that anymore. That was (once upon a time) a huge advantage for homeland security. Don't discount the importance just because we all cherish our privacy and fear the government. There is a proper balance somewhere.
The most dangerous crimes usually involve conspiracy. They should physically surveil people who have raised enough suspicision and get the information they need by making a deal with the little guy to squeal on the big guy. Consider that in the past a lot of this digital evidence wouldn't even have existed. It would have been private conversations that took place in person or by courier or some other means that it would not even be possible to know about unless you were there. There was no equivalent to a web search history even 30 years ago. The entire premise that the existence of electronic communication should allow the government the ability and power to know more about the people than they did a hundred years ago is debatable.
Uh oh. Better get out your tin foil; the very concept of a “conspiracy” is insane!
I’ve never liked deals in criminal trials, but that’s me.
I rather think there’s no debate. The government has no such power, has never had such power, and will never have such power. New technologies coming into existence don’t inherently change the Constitution.
It might surprise you to learn that every piece of mail that goes through the US postal service is scanned and recorded. And you might be interested to learn that various "three letter agencies" intercept package deliveries for the purpose of installing spyware and electronic monitoring equipment.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/29/5253226/nsa-cia-fbi-laptop-usb-plant-spy
For example, strong encryption in iOS 8 and above makes it virtually impossible to eavesdrop on iMessage conversations or gain physical device access, even with appropriate warrants.
Just how does encryption prevent physical access to a device? Yes, it might contain a bunch of gibberish if unencrypted but you'd still have your hands on it.
I have the impression that iMessages are not kept on Apple's servers, they are only kept on the devices (similar to BitTorrent). My understanding may not be accurate and if someone knows otherwise, say so.
I have the impression that iMessages are not kept on Apple's servers, they are only kept on the devices (similar to BitTorrent). My understanding may not be accurate and if someone knows otherwise, say so.
iMessages are kept on Apple's servers to a certain extent but are encrypted and only the end users have the private keys needed to decrypt them. Ever wonder how iMessages are synced between a Mac and iPhone using handoff?
http://www.apple.com/privacy/approach-to-privacy/
http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/27/apple-explains-exactly-how-secure-imessage-really-is/
Apple offers details on it and other Apple services here:
http://www.apple.com/privacy/approach-to-privacy/
Thanks.
At no point in the story did it mention these terrorists were using an iPhone, so the whole argument is a farce.
..., as the bill is headed to the House of Representatives and, if passed, to President Obama for ratification.
Presidents do not "ratify" bills, they sign them into law or veto them. Back to Schoolhouse Rock for you!!!!
In what possible universe is that a logical conclusion? You think that lawmakers would draft a bill that says “only Android phones need backdoors”?!
What’s worrying is the media narrative that the Playstations used to communicate were “peer to peer”. That’ll be the first to go.
It might surprise you to learn that every piece of mail that goes through the US postal service is scanned and recorded. And you might be interested to learn that various "three letter agencies" intercept package deliveries for the purpose of installing spyware and electronic monitoring equipment.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/29/5253226/nsa-cia-fbi-laptop-usb-plant-spy
Actually that does not surprised me since I have known this for a long time, I worked for one of the companies who designed the mail sorting systems the USPS uses, and they were a Mainframe computer company so they designed in ability to do this back in the 80's when they started to move away from people direction mail to the correct location to a OCR system that did it automatically. They always had the data, they are just now storing it so they can post process and analysis. But they are not ready the content of the mail. I also believe the NSA monitors who was sending mail to whom but not readying the actually content since that would require lots of storage, but we know today the NSA now has that storage capability.
On the package thing, I have seen posting by individual will their packages for no reason were being routed through the DC area verse through the normal shipping companies hubs. It was always thought that the NSA was peeking at those packages.
In what possible universe is that a logical conclusion? You think that lawmakers would draft a bill that says “only Android phones need backdoors”?!
What’s worrying is the media narrative that the Playstations used to communicate were “peer to peer”. That’ll be the first to go.
Just what we need. The government spying on conversations between gamers on the PS4.
A detailed and compelling work of fiction. If you wish to challenge your prejudices then read All Hell let Loose by Max Hastings.
A very controversial matter, since both parts are right ... Privacy has to be protected, but State security in this time is a concern....
No solution.
I want my iMessages to be encrypted, but what about iMessage being used by terrorists?
So they simply use open methods and avoid using terms like "bomb", "assault weapon", "targets" and "death to the unbelievers".
"Let's all have dinner at 7:30 at Frank's house on that first Monday in December".
A detailed and compelling work of fiction. If you wish to challenge your prejudices then read All Hell let Loose by Max Hastings.
I've read that book before. It's utter crap. Hasting's generalizations about the war are so wrong. I've never read so much exaggeration about WWII before. Hastings also gets a ton of facts wrong in the book. If you want to read about WWII, don't read anything from Hastings.
Or this
The real useful information, the networks of interconnected people, is already either open from company records or obscured beyond retrieval with burner phones.
The concern I do have is the principle that future regimes might abuse these powers: that's a different problem that needs constant vigilance and a free (and sometimes, in UK, noxious) press. In the present, we need to avoid a repeat of the events in Paris (and it's not the only occurrence).
I can't comment on the situation in the US. However, if you really think your government, in any country, is systematically abusing the population instead of serving and protecting it then you have a bigger problem than private E-Mails being read.