Apple's iPad Pro boasts 'top tier display,' but falls behind iPad mini 4 & Microsoft Surface Pro 4

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  • Reply 21 of 58
    It's getting miiiighty defensive in this comment section...
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  • Reply 22 of 58
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    Raymond Soneira has been getting more and more infatuated with his "objective" instruments. He's way off in the weeds with some numerical anomalies, meanwhile losing his ability to make commonsense judgments with his eyes and brain.
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  • Reply 23 of 58
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Boltsfan17 View Post

     

    I agree. I was at the Apple Store yesterday checking out the iPad Pro. There is no way the Surface screen is better. The iPad Pro's display looks amazing. The Surface Pro display isn't bad by any means, but it doesn't come close to the iPad Pro display in my opinion. 


    But they are both using much of the same technology and both have been scientifically tested to be extremely close in performance, to the point that it's really very unlikely that you would notice any difference. How could one 'not come close'?

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  • Reply 24 of 58
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post



    Raymond Soneira has been getting more and more infatuated with his "objective" instruments. He's way off in the weeds with some numerical anomalies, meanwhile losing his ability to make commonsense judgments with his eyes and brain.

    Isn't that kind of like saying 'well, the laser rangefinder says that Object A is 100 meters away and Object B is 110 meters away, but from my vantage point they both appear to be the same size. So they must be the same size!'



    'Common sense judgements with his eyes and brain' are not the same as objective measurements, and an A- rating vs. A does not make the iPad Pro screen terrible.

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  • Reply 25 of 58



    I realize this may be cherry-picking, but look at the Brightness and Contrast scores. These qualities contribute a large part of how us humans assess visual performance:

     

    http://www.displaymate.com/iPad_2015_ShootOut_1.htm#Brightness_Contrast

     

    The low reflectance contributes to Excellent to Very Good ratings across the iPad product line. One test I feel that is very important and has practical benefit is "Screen Readability in High Ambient Light," with all three iPads rated as Excellent. I think sacrificing a slight amount of color accuracy to achieve high performance in these areas is worth the minor trade-off.

     

    Overall, given the current level of display technology, it is not surprising to see that there is near parity amongst all of the various upper tier manufacturers. While there is certainly room for improvement, we are pretty much in the "splitting hairs" realm. This reminds me of a situation a little over ten years ago, when I was in a demo suite with a bunch of projector display engineers tweaking a projector being fed with a 480i component video source. HD had not quite taken hold, but even then it was apparent to some of us that the image was only going to get so good, and that we were basically spinning our wheels. Us techies can be such dweebs at times.

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  • Reply 26 of 58
    sog35 wrote: »
    Ancedotal evidence is all I need when it comes to screens and displays.

    No two eye balls are the same.  My eyes may have certain defeats, who knows.  But IMO the iPad Pro screen destroys the Surface.  And all that matters is what I SEE.  Because I won't be using someone elses eyeballs to use my iPad.

    But what is the difference?
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  • Reply 27 of 58

    So iPad Pro is behind MS Surface 4 in terms of screen quality?

    Riiight.

    Lets see what Displaymate numbers are for both:



    ---------------- iPad Pro | MS Surface Pro4 

    Color Gamut  105% | 102%

    Absolute color accuracy: (Average/Max) 2.6/6.6  |  1.9/ NA(no numerical values given)

    Image contrast accuracy: Very Good, Slightly irregular | Very good , Image contrast slightly too low,

    Average gamma: 2.13 | NA (no numerical values given)

    Average screen reflection  2.6% | 5.6%

    Mirror reflection  2.8% | 6.3%

    contrast rating in high ambient light: 163 (excellent)  |  78 (very good).

    Calibration: Very good but WP is slightly too blue 7164K 1.8 JNCD from D65 WP | Excellent 6886K 1.5 JNCD from D65 WP

    Max brightness measured 424 cd/m^2 | 436 cd/m^2

    Lowest peak brightness: 4 cd/m^2 | 7 cd/m^2


    True black brightness at 0 lux: 0.26 cd/m^2 | 0.31 cd/m^2

    Constrast ratio at 0 lux: 1631 | 1406




    p.s. S65 was a typo, of course. D65 is a correct version.

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  • Reply 28 of 58
    19831983 Posts: 1,225member

    I'm sorry but I'm really disappointed by this. I really believed the iPad Pro was easily going to have the best quality tablet display out there. It doesn't and to add insult to injury, that of the bloody Surface Pro 4 is better! At least the Mini 4's display is as good as MS's.

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  • Reply 29 of 58
    19831983 Posts: 1,225member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Anton Zuykov View Post

     

    So iPad Pro is behind MS Surface 4?

    Riiight.

    Lets see what Displaymate numbers are for both:



    ---------------- iPad Pro | MS Surface Pro4 

    Color Gamut  105% | 102%

    Absolute color accuracy: (Average/Max) 2.6/6.6  |  1.9/ NA(no numerical values given)

    Image contrast accuracy: Very Good, Slightly irregular | Very good , Image contrast slightly too low,

    Average gamma: 2.13 | NA (no numerical values given)

    Average screen reflection  2.6% | 5.6%

    Mirror reflection  2.8% | 6.3%

    contrast rating in high ambient light: 163 (excellent)  |  78 (very good).

    Calibration: Very good but WP is slightly too blue 7164K 1.8 JNCD from S65 WP | Excellent 6886K 1.5 JNCD from S65 WP

    Max brightness measured 424 cd/m^2 | 436 cd/m^2

    Lowest peak brightness: 4 cd/m^2 | 7 cd/m^2


    True black brightness at 0 lux: 0.26 cd/m^2 | 0.31 cd/m^2

    Constrast ratio at 0 lux: 1631 | 1406


     




    Oh, so they're closer than I thought...not quite as disappointed anymore!

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  • Reply 30 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 1983 View Post

     



    Oh, so they're closer than I thought...not quite as disappointed anymore!




    I always find it fascinating how people trust someones interpretation of a set of numbers, without checking actual numbers and without knowing metrics of how a certain number is translated into a category "good/very good/ best" 

    That is why I posted numbers here.



    And judging by numbers iPad Pro screen definitely doesn't fall behind MS Surface 4 screen. It is rather both have their strong sides and weak spots, but they are certainly in the same category.

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  • Reply 31 of 58
    flaneur wrote: »
    Raymond Soneira has been getting more and more infatuated with his "objective" instruments. He's way off in the weeds with some numerical anomalies, meanwhile losing his ability to make commonsense judgments with his eyes and brain.

    Why not? Consumer electronics are meant to be measured with instruments, not used by people.
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  • Reply 32 of 58
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,771member
    Why not? Consumer electronics are meant to be measured with instruments, not used by people.
    :no:
    What a ridiculous assertion. Who cares what some set of specs says?? The screen quality is obvious!! All you have to do is look at it. What's important...

    Oh wait, that was sarcasm wasn't it.

    (In first LOL)
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  • Reply 33 of 58
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,031member
    sog35 wrote: »
    Nice job.

    Microsoft's check is in the mail.

    Total and utter bullshit.  I've seen both and the Pro totally destroys the Surface screen.  I don't need some nerd in a lab to tell me what my eyes are seeing.

    Eye*s*? You've got two? :-)
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  • Reply 34 of 58
    1983 wrote: »
    I'm sorry but I'm really disappointed by this. I really believed the iPad Pro was easily going to have the best quality tablet display out there. It doesn't and to add insult to injury, that of the bloody Surface Pro 4 is better! At least the Mini 4's display is as good as MS's.

    what injury? what insult?

    (the handwringing is absurd)
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  • Reply 35 of 58
    gatorguy wrote: »
    What a ridiculous assertion. Who cares what some set of specs says?? The screen quality is obvious!! All you have to do is look at it. What's important...

    Oh wait, that was sarcasm wasn't it.

    not sure if your own post is sarcastic or not, but that is why the google/android cheer team will never understand apple -- it's not about the specs, it's about the final experience. some spec may say the Pro is behind the Surface per some display metric, but in actual use that doesnt seem to matter.
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  • Reply 36 of 58
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,771member
    nolamacguy wrote: »
    not sure if your own post is sarcastic or not, but that is why the google/android cheer team will never understand apple -- it's not about the specs, it's about the final experience. some spec may say the Pro is behind the Surface per some display metric, but in actual use that doesn't seem to matter.
    I thought sarcasm was obvious to any reader but apparently it was not.

    Note the use of the word "sarcasm" and "LOL".
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  • Reply 37 of 58
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,315member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Boltsfan17 View Post

     

    I agree. I was at the Apple Store yesterday checking out the iPad Pro. There is no way the Surface screen is better. The iPad Pro's display looks amazing. The Surface Pro display isn't bad by any means, but it doesn't come close to the iPad Pro display in my opinion. 


     

    Maybe it's the much better Anti-Glare of the iPad screen over the surface that makes the ipad look better in real world use!

     

    Microsoft did go all out with a good screen also!!  It's just who wants to deal with Anti-Virus software, Firewalls, Spyware software, and the 30+ security updates a month it seems.  I know as I get so many of them every month on my Windows Desktop.  I just want my tablet to turn on and work and not deal with all that crap.  That in the end is really why the surface is failing.  You have a thing that's trying to be everything to everyone.  

     

    Personally I think maybe Windows RT  ONLY for tablets and phones and left the full OS for Desktop's and Laptop's.  RT designed for complete Touch screen access and none of that crap on Full Windows, Mouse and keyboard.  Few people want to reach up and touch the screen on a laptop, but especially a desktop.  That's what a mouse or trackpad is for.

     

    While sales of the surface is growing every year as they get better, it's still a TINY fraction of iPad sales.  I'm going to assume even the ipad PRO alone will have more sales then the surface.

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  • Reply 38 of 58
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,315member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JDGAZ View Post



    If absolute quality of viewing really mattered to people then Panasonic would still be producing plasma TV's and Samsung would have been out of business a long time ago.

     

    I love my 2 50" Panasonic Plasma's and hope I get a number of years more out of them.  Though my one in my Bedroom is shutting off at times for some reason.  I'm not sure if it's the TV, or maybe something to do with the new AppleTV sending a off signal t it?  It didn't start doing it until I got the new AppleTV.

     

    Plasma's have a better picture at at a lower cost and yet people still went after LCD display's.  It's sickening.   I don't know of people were scared of screen burn in?  I've been gaming for years on mine and there's none of that.  Maybe since they use LCD displays on their computers that it's good enough for their HDTV?  maybe it's the way to bright Vivid Mode the LCD's are putting out in the stores over the Plasma displays that no one in their right mind would watch their TV like that at Home!!!   Or it was the larger profit selling LCD's over the Plasma's so LCD's were pushed onto people.   lastly, the higher power requirements of Plasma's.  Though that was dropping.

     

    The market seems to pick the worse formats!!!  VHS over BETA.  BETAMAX had the better picture also, but people went with VHS as it could hold more.   Same with HD DVD over BlueRay.  HD DVD was the better format for a number of reasons, but Blu-Ray could hold a little more after they finally figured out how to produce the duel layer discs reliably.  

     

    I'm sure the surface has a great screen, doesn't mean I want to deal with all the Windows issues on a tablet that i just want to work.  The Anti-Glare is a lot better on the iPad Pro screen over the surface, and in real world viewing, maybe that's enough to make the iPad screen look better to people.  Especially in a store with overhead florescent lights.

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  • Reply 39 of 58
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member

    Some of you guys are way too sensitive about this stuff.  Microsoft's display is slightly better?  Well done Microsoft.

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  • Reply 40 of 58
    jdgazjdgaz Posts: 408member



    I love my 2 plasmas. Will keep the running as long as I can. Oh, and I don't have any Bill Gates / Steve Balmer / stuff in the house. Just purchased an iPad pro for my daughter. She thinks it is simply beautiful. I could not agree more. Might have to get one for myself one day. 

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