Apple Pencil torn apart to find incredibly small logic board, folded in half to maximize space

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  • Reply 21 of 69
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post





    What's that all about? IFixit is at least useful as a web site.

    Very much unappreciated. Just like the A series chips that literally make iOS devices possible.

     

    I appreciate what they do there... it fills a need.  

     

    I have two IPs so I can visit the site once on each of my balanced lines to make up for the person boycotting <img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" /> 

  • Reply 22 of 69
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    sog35 wrote: »
    But the pencil is the superior device for marking up documents and notetaking also.  Its just flatout the superior product.

    This discussion all stems from an argument I had with a clown here who said the Surface Pen is just as good as the Apple Pencil.  He was trying to convince people the Surface Pro is a better deal because it comes with a 'free' $100 stylus and is comparable to the Apple Pencil.  That is flatout bullshit.  The Apple pencil is out performing $2000 standalone drawing tools.  While the Surface pen is using the same tech as $20 China brand stylus.

    Yes I get that Apple Pencil is good for those things too my point was I don't think Microsoft's pencil was designed with artists in mind whereas Apple Pencil was.
  • Reply 23 of 69
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    I think they did a joke tear down of the Apple II and praised it for being easy to service. After that, it knew that if iFixit had their way, we'd advance no further than the 20th century in tech and manufacturing to appease the amateur DIY crowd.

    The amateur DIY crowd is a very important element in reducing waste and thus junk going to landfills. However that isn't the only way to environmental responsibility, having something professionally repaired also helps reduce the environmental impact of a device.

    In a nut shell it is bad design to manufacture something that is extremely difficult to repair.
  • Reply 24 of 69
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,474member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

     



    This is indeed a good video that shows the real life superiority of the Apple Pencil.

    The Hermès Watch is ain't to shabby either. :)

     

    ...


    Too bad the camera was looking over her left shoulder blocking the writing.  Should have been over her right shoulder since she is left handed.

  • Reply 25 of 69
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    wizard69 wrote: »
    The amateur DIY crowd is a very important element in reducing waste and thus junk going to landfills. However that isn't the only way to environmental responsibility, having something professionally repaired also helps reduce the environmental impact of a device.

    In a nut shell it is bad design to manufacture something that is extremely difficult to repair.

    So th Appl Pencil is bad design to you? Or just miniaturization in general?
  • Reply 26 of 69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post





    The amateur DIY crowd is a very important element in reducing waste and thus junk going to landfills. However that isn't the only way to environmental responsibility, having something professionally repaired also helps reduce the environmental impact of a device.



    In a nut shell it is bad design to manufacture something that is extremely difficult to repair.

     

    If you have hire failures in DIY repairable devices - how is that good for the environment?  More broken parts still have to be recycled and would be discarded, while a higher percentage of devices that continue to be useful and resold if you chose to upgrade.  There is a fairly sizable industry in places like this were devices are refurbished to a point and resold used.  It is not necessarily a function of repairability as much as the fact that in North America if it is no longer useful to you it is not worth the hassle and just dumped in the recycling bin.... and trashed as opposed to being resold.

  • Reply 27 of 69
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    bkkcanuck wrote: »
    Some people seem to be taking iFixit ( read I as in DIY) to task because they give poor repairability scores to many of the new devices.... the fact is that they are right... and yet generally irrelevant at the same time.
    I wouldn't say that they are irrelevant, rather that they are being skewered by people lacking intelligence. Repairing or having somebody repair something for you, can be a responsible approach to a real environmental problem. Does anybody here even knows what will happen to pencil if it fails prematurely?
     There are advantages to not building things to be "repairable".
    Sure but do they outweigh the concerns from people looking at the greater picture?
     Being able to break things down and replace components leads to devices that are more likely to break (each "plug" in component etc. is more likely to be a point of failure).  It also means that the device will typically be more clunky than it would otherwise be.  Manufacturers save money on warrantees by doing this (less repairs but higher cost ... but still overall lower repair cost over all devices).  
    That is largely garbage. The pencils most likely failure point is the battery, at best it is a few connections to be made up.
    iFixit (and many people who like building or upgrading their devices) have a specific point of view that irritates some people... but their point of view is valid to those that are in that camp.  If you are part of the majority of buyers - it is pretty meaningless.
    That is because over a few decades we have trained ourselves to be a throwaway society. It really didn't use to be that way and is something we can unlearn.

    Early in the PC business I earned a fair amount of money custom assembling clones (when they were called clones).... but when I look back the build quality of the cases and the components are extremely bad by todays standard. 
    Well that is an example of building a new product. The point here though is how many times did those machined get enhanced over time? If the shoddy case prevented the sale of multiple new machines over the years then it did some good.

    Now today I'd be the first to admit that PC's remain viable for users longer than they use to, it is easy for somebody to be satisfied with performance in the 5-10 year range. That however makes repair ability a bigger issue, you will want to be able to swap out a battery without jumping through hoops to do it for example. Apples MBP are a perfect example here of a machine that could loose its battery even is the rest of the machine is perfectly usable. I really don't think many people on this forum would be all that happy if Apple said tough luck when the batteries die in a MBP.
  • Reply 28 of 69
    peteopeteo Posts: 402member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    But the pencil is the superior device for marking up documents and notetaking also.  Its just flatout the superior product.

     

    This discussion all stems from an argument I had with a clown here who said the Surface Pen is just as good as the Apple Pencil.  He was trying to convince people the Surface Pro is a better deal because it comes with a 'free' $100 stylus and is comparable to the Apple Pencil.  That is flatout bullshit.  The Apple pencil is out performing $2000 standalone drawing tools.  While the Surface pen is using the same tech as $20 China brand stylus.


    Wow, I have not tried the Pencil and it looks amazing, but really you have 0 clue about what your talking about.

    The surface pen is an active stylus that talks to special sensors in the display. It is not a $20 china stylus. Microsoft bought N-Trig a company like Wacom that has been doing this tech for years. If you watch the above video, or any of the surface 4/book reviews from creative people you will understand that their stylus is VERY good (maybe not pencil level but very close) A lot of people are dumping their Wacom drawing digitizers/tablets and getting surface pro/book since it runs full Photoshop (you then only need 1 device) 

    If any one is screwed its Wacom, because for the most part artist hate their product but they had to live with it since there was nothing better. Now there 2 amazing products that blow Wacom away.

  • Reply 29 of 69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

     
     

    Now today I'd be the first to admit that PC's remain viable for users longer than they use to, it is easy for somebody to be satisfied with performance in the 5-10 year range. That however makes repair ability a bigger issue, you will want to be able to swap out a battery without jumping through hoops to do it for example. Apples MBP are a perfect example here of a machine that could loose its battery even is the rest of the machine is perfectly usable. I really don't think many people on this forum would be all that happy if Apple said tough luck when the batteries die in a MBP.

     

    The battery is replaceable it is just not that easy.  Even when they were replaceable by the time the battery was to be replaced....  most people (in North America) get hit by the sticker shock of a new battery costing in the order of $150 or even $200 dollars for the battery and then calculating the resale value of the laptop and then deciding either to do without a new battery and reusing it in that use case -- or disposing of the whole computer and getting a new one that is much more powerful and often cheaper in the long run.  The old computer is then discarded, and if lucky someone bundles them all up and ships them over to countries like this one where labour is cheaper and the computer is cleaned up - and then sold either with a new battery etc.   The battery by the way is probably the most damaging to the environment - so if you are worried about the environment DON'T buy devices with batteries.   If it is a corporation, then the business case for keeping anything more than a set number of years actually gets worse - as many companies lease computers (sometimes from corporations that they own offshore) and would replace them anyway.

  • Reply 30 of 69
    peteopeteo Posts: 402member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    its still using the same tech as $20 China Wacom knock offs.


    no its not. Again you have 0 clue what you are talking about. But nice try

  • Reply 31 of 69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

     
     

    Sure but do they outweigh the concerns from people looking at the greater picture?

    ....

    That is largely garbage. The pencils most likely failure point is the battery, at best it is a few connections to be made up.


     

    Lets focus on these non-repairable devices (which are often portable devices).....  Things like the Macbook are made up of a very very small logic board, aluminum body, and a very large battery.  

     

    The body can be melted down and recycled.  The battery which makes up 95% of the remaining device is garbage and toxic to the environment, leaving only the final 5% to quibble about.  So I get back to the point that if you are really worried about the environment.... don't buy devices with batteries - since they are made with a finite lifetime.

  • Reply 32 of 69
    wizard69 wrote: »
    The amateur DIY crowd is a very important element in reducing waste and thus junk going to landfills. However that isn't the only way to environmental responsibility, having something professionally repaired also helps reduce the environmental impact of a device.

    In a nut shell it is bad design to manufacture something that is extremely difficult to repair.

    Handing your outdated Android phone to Apple for recycling is also environmentally responsible. Repairability isn't the sole path to reducing landfill waste. It's just the one that appeals to DIY fans. It's not a universal solution.
  • Reply 33 of 69
    peteopeteo Posts: 402member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Huion Rechargeable Mouse Digitizer Pen 

    http://www.amazon.com/Huion-Rechargeable-Digitizer-Wireless-Christmas/dp/B00DOW6TUQ/ref=sr_1_9?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1447950597&sr=1-9&keywords=digital+pen

     

    $19.99 

     

    uses the same tech as the Surface Pen

     

    or even better

     

    HTC Stylus Scribe Digital Pen for Flyer

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008LEKI0O/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B008LEKI0O&linkCode=as2&tag=surfafanat-20&linkId=T6CQMF6JHCXTPSAA

     

    $19.99

     

    "One of these is the HTC Scribe Stylus for the HTC Flyer tablet, which can be found for $20 or under. You might be wondering why the stylus for an old Android tablet would work on the Surface Pro 3. That is because they both utilize N-trig technology for their active digitizers."


    again CLUE LESS. The surface 4/pro have a chip inside it just for pen/touch input and it works really well.  (go to 2:08) its not perfect but its way better than the surface pro 3. 

  • Reply 34 of 69
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,474member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Hope you are getting a nice commission check for pumping Surface merchandise here.

     

    Fine.  The Surface Pen is as good as a $30 China Pen.  Happy now?




    $35.99

  • Reply 35 of 69
    irelandireland Posts: 17,794member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

    And this is why the Apple pencil blows away the Surface pen.

     

    Now where is that joker that was arguing with me that the Surface pen was the equal to the Apple Pencil?




    To the user the only thing that matters is the experience. Pencil has a better experience. That said, they should have included an eraser feature on the end.

  • Reply 36 of 69

    I like to tinker with individual transistors, resistors, and capacitors. Why can't I fiddle with the sub-components in the Apple Penci? 

  • Reply 37 of 69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

     



    To the user the only thing that matters is the experience. Pencil has a better experience. That said, they should have included an eraser feature on the end.


    And they should have also simulated the fact that the eraser attached to the end of pencil is typically inferior <img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />

  • Reply 38 of 69
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    ireland wrote: »

    To the user the only thing that matters is the experience. Pencil has a better experience. That said, they should have included an eraser feature on the end.

    That's easy to say not being involved in the development of the product. It's like saying iPP should have included 3D Touch. As much as I complain about Phil Schiller's upsell obsession I don't think Apple purposely leaves technology out of a product so they have a reason for you to upgrade the next year. Hardware ships when it's ready and is included in products when the engineering is nailed and there is sufficient quantity. Having said that I do think there is an order of priority and if Apple doesn't have ample supply of something 9 times out of 10 iPhone will be prioritized over iPad.
  • Reply 39 of 69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    That's easy to say not being involved in the development of the product. It's like saying iPP should have included 3D Touch. As much as I complain about Phil Schiller's upsell obsession I don't think Apple purposely leaves technology out of a product so they have a reason for you to upgrade the next year. Hardware ships when it's ready and is included in products when the engineering is nailed and there is sufficient quantity. Having said that I do think there is an order of priority and if Apple doesn't have ample supply of something 9 times out of 10 iPhone will be prioritized over iPad.

    The order of priority is likely set by use cases for the devices in combination volume needed, and volume available etc.  The iPad Pro obviously has priority when it comes to pencil and keyboard over iPhone :p.  The faster touch id goes to the phone simply because users press to unlock hundreds of times a day potentially (lock code needed for security, but also payments), while the iPad will likely stay unlocked for hours.... so maybe used a couple times a day.... (I lock my phone with a passcode, but I don't bother on my iPad because it is not that important).  

  • Reply 40 of 69
    wizard69 wrote: »
    The amateur DIY crowd is a very important element in reducing waste and thus junk going to landfills. However that isn't the only way to environmental responsibility, having something professionally repaired also helps reduce the environmental impact of a device.

    In a nut shell it is bad design to manufacture something that is extremely difficult to repair.

    its bad design to manufacture something that doesnt work as well as it could. poorly designed products end up as landfill when they become junk that doesnt work very well.

    the DIY crowd represent a fraction of a fraction -- they bear no effect on landfill waste... dont flatter yourself.
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