What you can and cannot do with an Apple Pencil on iPad Pro

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  • Reply 81 of 118
    The ones complaining about the omission of an eraser end are not seeing the obvious: apple is working on a second tool, called Apple Eraser ;)
  • Reply 82 of 118
    ursine1 wrote: »
    It's interesting to see all the negative comments regarding the lack of an "erasure" on the Apple Pencil. I started using mechanical pencils back in high school 50+ years ago and I haven't used a regular wooden pencil in over a decade. Back when I did use pencils, I also used a separate erasure as the one that was on the pencil would usually smudge more than it would erase. And I often wondered "where did I put that damn erasure?"<snip>

    I couldn't resist and fully agree: professional pencils do not have any erasers on them.

    Most artists I know use kneadable erasers.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kneaded_eraser
    http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:kneadable eraser


    700


    I've been looking for a pencil in my sketch box all morning and can't find one... although the unopened Fabers have an eraser-cap that you can use... although I never have.

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  • Reply 83 of 118
    The ones complaining about the omission of an eraser end are not seeing the obvious: apple is working on a second tool, called Apple Eraser ;)

    Funny sarcasm :D

    However I'll bet they ARE working on a pencil that's 100% self contained that can be used on any writing surface, whether paper, wood, glass... monitor or screen of any kind... without needing the sensor tech built in to the screen/tablet or a separate sensor clip or cable like *below.

    At about $300-400, Wacom can kiss their butts goodbye.

    * There's others on the market, but this is what I'm talking about... without the unneeded tech and cable.

    Top 10 Smart Pens Reviewed -- Apple would eat up this category on the first day.

    http://digital-pen-review.toptenreviews.com/

    http://www.livescribe.com/en-us/smartpen/echo/

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  • Reply 84 of 118
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

     

    Skeuomorphism has it's place. People intuitively know what to do with a product that mimics what it looks like. For someone who's never used a digital drawing device like the Pencil, they would instinctively know that turning it over might erase. 


    Professional artists would not instinctively expect an eraser at the other end because professional drawing pencils typically do not have erasers. Assuming that Apple designed the Pencil as an artist's tool rather than a universal scribbling input device it makes sense to not put an eraser at the other end. An artist uses a separate eraser which has a sharp edge for maximum precision, hence with the Apple Pencil you switch into erase mode for total control of all the eraser brushes. Why wouldn't you want the same level of control with your eraser that you have in the drawing mode?

  • Reply 85 of 118
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,549member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TGR1 View Post

     

    Does this address some of your questions? Links to a video for the Umake sketching app.

     


    Are you using the uMake app for Industrial Design? If you are I would like to hear your views on it for that.

     

    I'm looking for a App for conceptual design which is how some engineers view Industrial Design software; I have Mechanical CAD applications but they are generally poor for conceptual design. Autodesk could bring Alias to the iPad Pro, at some level, and that would be another possibility.

  • Reply 86 of 118
    ireland wrote: »
    The lack of an eraser is a glaring oversight.

    no it isn't. you just like to latch onto things to bag on about. it's a pattern.
  • Reply 87 of 118
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,454member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    Professional artists would not instinctively expect an eraser at the other end because professional drawing pencils typically do not have erasers. Assuming that Apple designed the Pencil as an artist's tool rather than a universal scribbling input device it makes sense to not put an eraser at the other end. An artist uses a separate eraser which has a sharp edge for maximum precision, hence with the Apple Pencil you switch into erase mode for total control of all the eraser brushes. Why wouldn't you want the same level of control with your eraser that you have in the drawing mode?




    You're taking my statement a little out of context, but fair enough. Apple tends to design products for the average consumer. However, since the Pencil is only available for the "Pro" iPad, one could theoretically say that means the Pencil is designed for "Pros". And in that light, you are absolutely correct, it would be counter-intuitive for a graphics professional used to using Wacom tablet to then use an eraser on the end of the Pencil. Personally, when I'm using a pencil professionally, I always use a separate eraser. I find it much quicker and more efficient. So you've got no argument from me that having an eraser on the end of the Apple Pencil would be counter-productive for most professional uses. Nevertheless that's not what my original point was with that statement.

     

    My point is that Skeuomorphism has a place in design, and that handing a person who has never used a Wacom tablet, an Apple Pencil, it's intuitive to flip the pencil over to make erasures, without learning any custom software. And there are some applications where that might be the best solution -- a notepad app for instance intended for jotting down quick notes. Rather than learn the conventions of digital graphics applications, flipping the Pencil over to erase something is intuitive. Now, I will agree that Apple did not design the Pencil for that purpose, and that their target audience is not the average consumer who wants to use a stylus to jot notes on the iPad. In fact that's the last thing Apple probably wants, given their stance on the stylus, which is why I think we'll never see the iPhone support the Apple Pencil. And based on their statements, I agree they did intend the Pencil for use primarily by digital artists. In which case, I agree that an eraser on the end is not the most pragmatic solution. Nevertheless, my point about Skeuomorhism stands.

  • Reply 88 of 118
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    Is there any way it replicates what a side hardware button would do? I get why Apple passed on other things, but I can't imagine using my Intuous without its hardware button. Go over to the tool menu and tap to change to eraser? Touching the button is so much better, IMO. It can be programmed to do any action, from toggling brush shapes to switching in and out of the text tool, basically anything you've found yourself making too many trips to a menu or toolbox to do. You find what you switch most and use them. Kind of surprised they left out the ability to do this, or right click, while holding the pencil.
  • Reply 89 of 118
    No, palm rejection does not work in all apps because it doesn't work in Outline despite their claim of iPad pro support in the latest version.

    I'm surprised that there's no mention of handwriting recognition. This is an essential feature of all other pen-enabled tablets, Whether they're Android or Windows based. Fortunately for Apple WritePad Pro has stepped into the breach and has provided us with an excellent HWR keyboard that works much better than the integrated keyboard that comes with Windows 10 on my Surface Pro 3.
  • Reply 89 of 118
    No, palm rejection does not work in all apps because it doesn't work in Outline despite their claim of iPad pro support in the latest version.

    I'm surprised that there's no mention of handwriting recognition. This is an essential feature of all other pen-enabled tablets, Whether they're Android or Windows based. Fortunately for Apple WritePad Pro has stepped into the breach and has provided us with an excellent HWR keyboard that works much better than the integrated keyboard that comes with Windows 10 on my Surface Pro 3.
  • Reply 91 of 118
    I'm surprised that Handwriting recognition if not more of an issue. HWR is an essential feature for all pen-enabled tablets before the iPad. Fortunately, Phatware's Writepad pro gives us an excellent HWR Systemwide keyboard that works really well. Works better than the Surface Pro 3 built-in HWR in my opinion.
  • Reply 92 of 118
    Great for sketching and storing an image of handwriting, but no handwriting recognition. There are only a few Palm Pilot like 3rd party handwriting recognition apps available, all of them with so-so reviews. Please don't tell me that I don't need handwriting recognition, I know my own work environment and about two centuries ago I used to use a Newton 2000 extensively. I understand why it had to be dropped (practically and as a consequence of Jobsian psychology), but I still miss it and can't wait to ditch my A4 sketch/note book and replace it with an iPad and aPencil and handwriting recognition built in.
  • Reply 93 of 118
    For fun, I created a demo image processing application that uses the Pencil as a joystick of sorts. You can see it in operation here:


    [VIDEO]


    Cheers!

    Simon
  • Reply 94 of 118
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member

    This weekend at The Metropolitan Museum of Art in the Greek and Roman section there was a guy sketching one of the heads, the work was wonderful, light expressive lines, really catching the marble's form. And he was using an iPad Pro with the Pencil.

  • Reply 95 of 118
    pmzpmz Posts: 3,433member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nagromme View Post



    As a life-long Wacom fan (I have one before me right now), I will say that I always liked the IDEA of side-buttons and eraser end. The idea. But in practice, I've found both features super annoying. Tapping a tool is quicker than reversing the entire stylus in your hand, and besides, I'd rather have the precision point for ALL edits, including erasure. As for side buttons, they force you to be careful how you hold it, they don't feel good, and I hit them by mistake occasionally. If they save time, it's not enough to be worth it. If ever simplicity was a virtue, it's in an artist's pencil.



    Interesting about edge gestures. I guess they want you to feel free to draw right up and past the edge--and back again--in all apps.



    Surprised--and very pleased--that palm rejection works in all apps with no software support needed!



    Bingo. A physical eraser has to be a big rubber bump, an ideal digital eraser is not.

  • Reply 96 of 118
    You didn't mention the Pressure Sensitivity. Is that information released? All I saw was:


    [VIDEO]
  • Reply 97 of 118
    I don't have either iPad or Pencil to test, but I think the use of multi-touch gestures can be solved by invoking the accessibility features. It would be interesting to know if those work with the Pencil, although I do not see why not. You get virtual home button, and other features/functions that are designed to work with just one finger.
  • Reply 98 of 118
    Please now artist exhibition of iPad Pro pencil - styles of: webcomic, realism, mimicking paint/graphite/conte%u2026, linework vs brushstrok-ish. Are people discarding/re-examining a possible artist table purchase because of iPad Pro (wacoms and yiynovas)
  • Reply 99 of 118
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,667moderator
    Are people discarding/re-examining a possible artist table purchase because of iPad Pro (wacoms and yiynovas)

    Some reviewers have said so, one had an iPad and a Wacom and said they'd sell both and use the iPad Pro. It makes a lot of sense to do that because the money needing to be put towards the iPad Pro would be a small amount once you get the resale value from an iPad + Wacom. Wacom estimated they had 85% marketshare of creative tablets here:

    http://investors.wacom.com/media/files/investor-relations/wacom_intro_e_201502_print.pdf

    The next biggest competitors they list as Waltop (Aiptek) and Ugee:

    http://www.aiptek.de/index.php/en/products/archive/archive-graphic-tablets/mediatablet-10000u
    http://www.waltop.com/english/01_products/02_detail.php?SID=152
    http://ugee.net/products.asp

    Wacom made $650m last year with 40% gross margins like Apple products:

    http://investors.wacom.com/media/files/investor-relations/2015-english/2015AR_final.pdf

    Net income was just $29m. Net assets are $282m. They have an employee count of 1072 and most of their expenses go on selling, general and admin.

    Wacom sells display-less tablets for a large variety of prices but Cintiqs with displays start around $800:
    http://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Cintiq-Interactive-Display-DTK1300/dp/B00BSOSCNE

    There's a Ugee one for $430:
    http://www.amazon.com/Ugee-Graphics-Drawing-Monitor-Protector/dp/B00NL4P3Y0

    If you divide out Wacom's revenue into Cintiqs, it's about 813,000 units per year. Once you factor in the displayless tablets, more expensive Cintiqs and accessories, the amount they sell is fairly low relative to iPad volume. They sell a lot of pens for iOS and Android tablets:

    http://www.wacom.com/news-and-events/united-states/2014/us-1064

    If Apple brings the Pencil to the smaller iPads, that company will probably suffer quite a lot. There will still be demand for really large graphics tablets and possibly cheaper displayless tablets but I could see a large chunk of their userbase migrating to iPads given the quality of the drawing and the fact it's fully mobile and a complete iPad. I imagine Wacom will try to partner with as many companies making Android products as they can, maybe Samsung will buy them out. That's probably their best chance of surviving in the mainstream graphics tablet market.
  • Reply 100 of 118
    I sure hope at some point Apple adapts Logic Pro for iPad Pro. I'd want LP or GarageBand updated at some point to recognize handwritten notation for composing. Much faster than diddling with little blocks of notes in MIDI.
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