Chromebooks now account for >50% of the education market. Initial purchase price is only part of the TCO, as Chromebooks can be issued to students as "managed" devices, with very low ongoing administrative effort required.
Coding is an important skill, and nothing about the Chrome OS design prevents a Chromebook from being used to code. Developer Joe Marini posted this 2 years ago, and the tools available to developers have only improved since 2013: Tools for Developing on ChromeOS.
In high school, I studied calculus, for which I have never had any practical use in my adult life. That doesn't mean that studying calculus was a waste of time.
I think Apple is missing a key target by staying product elite. You don't always need to drink out of crystal stemware. Sometimes a solo cup works great.
I would love to see stripped-down tablets to used for mass markets. Apple and iOS is positioned where it can integrate itself in everything. My latest example was sitting in a presentation with 50 people. Instead of a stack of printed packets to hand out to each person, why not low cost tablets attached to your seat? iOS is solid enough and user friendly where it could replace these kind of repetitious duties. A $500 iPad times 20 does not bode well for a kindergarten.
Right... Despite 50 years of proof that race to bottom will kill you Apple should "try it".... Oh, my.... If Google still exists and making a profit in 15 years, talk to me.
You want to short Google stock for 15 years? I'll take all action on the other end all day.
Coding is, and will be in the future, a critical skill for success. Coding is, at its most basic level, simply a protocol for solving problems and it should be introduced early in the educational system. Like any skill set there are varying levels of proficiency, but every student should understand the basic concepts and probably have at two or three courses by the time they finish high school.
I think you hit the nail on the head there. Problem solving and ordered, logical thinking are the underlying benefits. Not everyone will grow up coding for a living but the other benefits will give them a foundation for success.
Agreed but do you need coding skills to learn that? Couldn't a couple of Philosophy courses in Critical Thinking & Logic and Reasoning lead to the same result?
You can't use rhetorical arguments to fix a broken program. Computers are relentlessly, unyieldingly logical.
I think Apple is missing a key target by staying product elite. You don't always need to drink out of crystal stemware. Sometimes a solo cup works great.
I would love to see stripped-down tablets to used for mass markets. Apple and iOS is positioned where it can integrate itself in everything. My latest example was sitting in a presentation with 50 people. Instead of a stack of printed packets to hand out to each person, why not low cost tablets attached to your seat? iOS is solid enough and user friendly where it could replace these kind of repetitious duties. A $500 iPad times 20 does not bode well for a kindergarten.
While there will be jobs for low-cost tablets, that is not where Apple will play. There are already hundreds of cheap tablet models available, that make the companies very little money per unit, with a build quality and lifespan that reflect that.
The entire reason that Apple is as successful today as they are is due to a primary focus on markets where design/quality/usability/TCO matter. They provide a premium product that users are willing to pay for (for any number of those reasons). This works best in the consumer market as a % of the population is willing to pay for more than the equivalent of "grey shirt & grey pants". However, this is not how the enterprise market, and potentially a vast amount of the education market, works. Where the purchase is "almost" entirely made based on price, and the user is not the buyer, Apple's strengths are not decisive, so it is not their primary focus.
As for your example above - in a conference why provide anyone with a cheap, soon-to-be-in-landfill-tablet, rather than just provide a soft copy, or cloud-copy, of the material and people access it from their own device?
Apple's strength is ecosystem and integration. Apple is moving to broader markets that they cannot fully control. Carplay and Apple TV experience relies directly on the components it's attached to. So clearly Apple is willing to compromise in order to spread the ecosystem.
Now, bring in a tablet that relies strictly on iCloud and Apps for the masses. These wouldn't need high end GPU, Super HD, 10 hour battery, multi cameras, touch ID, unlimited memory etc etc. You strip it down, you create a new market with client devices. Now every place there are masses of people, you can serve up Apple's way to deliver content, with unmatched reliability, ease of use, and security. Apple is always going to miss out on the education market as long as they keep themselves just out of reach. It is not some much the cost, but the way it's used. Apple's education suite cannot match Google's. Also, after 10 dropped iPads in the first week, no school is going to re-up their order.
Government has a role to play with increasing or establishing technology funds to public schools. There's nothing wrong with Chromebooks in elementary and some of middle school, but its necessary to step up capability past that point.
We can't be a powerful first world country and have our schools so underfunded as to depend on 3rd world technology.
And this is coming from someone who has a Dell Chromebook and enjoys it as well as his Macbook Pro.
Government has a role to play with increasing or establishing technology funds to public schools. There's nothing wrong with Chromebooks in elementary and some of middle school, but its necessary to step up capability past that point.
We can't be a powerful first world country and have our schools so underfunded as to depend on 3rd world technology.
And this is coming from someone who has a Dell Chromebook and enjoys it as well as his Macbook Pro.
Disagree. The power of Chromebooks in schools comes from it's education suite and cloud sharing. It doesn't require top of the line equipment. Google understands this, Apple doesn't
Government has a role to play with increasing or establishing technology funds to public schools. There's nothing wrong with Chromebooks in elementary and some of middle school, but its necessary to step up capability past that point.
We can't be a powerful first world country and have our schools so underfunded as to depend on 3rd world technology.
And this is coming from someone who has a Dell Chromebook and enjoys it as well as his Macbook Pro.
Disagree. The power of Chromebooks in schools comes from it's education suite and cloud sharing. It doesn't require top of the line equipment. Google understands this, Apple doesn't
WRONG. Google understands they can lose money selling Chromebooks less than cost and make money mining kid's data.
And before you or anyone chimes in you should also know I was the very first to post news of the EFF compliant here, a full day or more before AI noted it and nearly a week before you seem to have first read about it. So yeah I post anti-Google news items too. Google does questionable stuff on occasion and should be called out for it when it happens.
Let's me tell you my own experience, give an i Pad and a CB in kids between 8-10 years old and guess what they are using the most? Sorry Apple, they chose the CB and this is very annoying for Apple.
Utter BS. You just won a best lie prize in this decade!
As a classroom teacher in the 80s, I was very impressed with Seymour Paper's book "Mindstorms" and subsequently spent a lot of time and effort working with students using the Logo computer language. Steve Jobs followed a similar line of thought when he talked about computers being a "bicycle of the mind." Coding is obviously a part of that process but so too is composing a Keynote presentation or an iBooks Author eBook. These are all tools that help us learn how to learn and how to do interesting and useful things with what we learn. I believe that this is the difference between iOS and ChromeOS that Cook is alluding to. On OS X, there are lots of great opportunities to write code using tools that are more accessible to students than what can be done through Xcode. There is AppleScript, Automator and the successors to HyperCard such as Roger Wagner's HyperStudio. There is also Logo. The problem with Cook's comments is that these options or options like them are not available on iOS. Perhaps he was hinting that these things are coming. I hope so.
Having friends who work IT support in the K-12 environment, I can tell you that what is paid for hardware wanes to the cost / time of maintenance. I also know of a hardware vendor that has the support contract for a county school system and during their breaks at the school system service 1,000 plus laptop units. Things are going to happen to hardware in the K-12 environment and I do not think the cheapest hardware is the best solution for the problem.
While you can get many models of Chromebooks for under $200, the cost of keyboard and screen repairs (the most common point of failure followed shortly by hard drives) will more than out pace the cost of the initial purchase. It will be interesting to see what happens to the cheap device in the K-12 environment. Does the school just plan to purchase new units on a yearly or twice yearly basis?
It is not a "race to the bottom" and Cook knows it. ChromeOS is not Windows or even Android. It is the Chrome browser and just enough of an OS to run it. That means that you can not only make a very good product by putting ChromeOS on outdated or low performance hardware i.e. Intel Celeron CPUs that were powering Windows XP PCs 10-15 years ago or Chinese ARM chips that are used to make throwaway Android phones, but make a decent profit on each device while doing so. The manufacturers are lining up to make these things because they are an excellent way to move parts that they would have to otherwise dispose of (i.e. pieces from all those Windows 8 devices that they never sold) or can get real cheap from suppliers looking to dump old inventory.
I think that a lot of Apple fans have forgotten that being able to come up with good, inexpensive solutions to problems has always been a goal of engineering and product design. And as a Chromebook is A) cheaper than a comparable Windows PC and actually has a large enough screen, keyboard/mouse etc. to provide a good UI/UX for people who lack tech experience and expertise (which would by definition include most elementary and middle school kids as well as most high school kids in areas that aren't economically advantaged) as well as the management tools and products and services designed for educational environments that Apple lacks and most school districts do not have the resources or expertise to develop themselves, ChromeOS is precisely that: a success in engineering and product design that solves its problem in a cost effective way. Cook knows this, which is why he plays the "race to the bottom" canard and then tries to change the subject to the need to get kids to code. Never mind that it is almost certainly easier for your average 7th grader to learn to code on a Chromebook than a device with a 7.9 inch screen that has no keyboard or mouse.
It is almost as if certain people want everyone to use Apple hardware that the exclusion of everything else, and to spare no expense or resource in the pursuit of doing so. It would be far better to expect Apple to either provide products that actually do a better job of meeting real market needs - and yes cost is a legitimate need - or to simply stay out of markets when they cannot or do not want to do so. If you are someone who thinks that kids need to just learn how to use iPads, schools need to restructure their curriculums around them, and districts who can't afford them just need to raise taxes ... you are doing a great job of advocating for Apple but terrible when it comes to considering how technology is actually supposed to be used, which is to solve as many problems for as many people as possible, not merely to provide maximum benefit for a single company or that company's loyal consumers.
Having friends who work IT support in the K-12 environment, I can tell you that what is paid for hardware wanes to the cost / time of maintenance. I also know of a hardware vendor that has the support contract for a county school system and during their breaks at the school system service 1,000 plus laptop units. Things are going to happen to hardware in the K-12 environment and I do not think the cheapest hardware is the best solution for the problem.
While you can get many models of Chromebooks for under $200, the cost of keyboard and screen repairs (the most common point of failure followed shortly by hard drives) will more than out pace the cost of the initial purchase. It will be interesting to see what happens to the cheap device in the K-12 environment. Does the school just plan to purchase new units on a yearly or twice yearly basis?
When commenting on maintenance costs you must be referring to Windows-based laptops I presume? Chromebooks are covered under warranty for 3 years and don't require schools to pay for their own repairs. Here's how the education program works per Google:
"Everything for $20 per month Starting at $20/device per month, Chromebooks for Education include the
hardware and operating system, updates, cloud-based management, and
complete support, all supplied directly from Google. Because schools no
longer need to purchase software licenses, servers, security solutions, and
maintenance plans, the total cost of owning a Chromebook can be 70% lower
than the ownership costs for a traditional PC. After 3 years, schools receive a
whole new set of Chromebooks and can keep their original set (without cloud
management or ongoing support) at no charge."
It is not a "race to the bottom" and Cook knows it. ChromeOS is not Windows or even Android. It is the Chrome browser and just enough of an OS to run it. That means that you can not only make a very good product by putting ChromeOS on outdated or low performance hardware i.e. Intel Celeron CPUs that were powering Windows XP PCs 10-15 years ago or Chinese ARM chips that are used to make throwaway Android phones, but make a decent profit on each device while doing so. The manufacturers are lining up to make these things because they are an excellent way to move parts that they would have to otherwise dispose of (i.e. pieces from all those Windows 8 devices that they never sold) or can get real cheap from suppliers looking to dump old inventory.
I think that a lot of Apple fans have forgotten that being able to come up with good, inexpensive solutions to problems has always been a goal of engineering and product design. And as a Chromebook is A) cheaper than a comparable Windows PC and actually has a large enough screen, keyboard/mouse etc. to provide a good UI/UX for people who lack tech experience and expertise (which would by definition include most elementary and middle school kids as well as most high school kids in areas that aren't economically advantaged) as well as the management tools and products and services designed for educational environments that Apple lacks and most school districts do not have the resources or expertise to develop themselves, ChromeOS is precisely that: a success in engineering and product design that solves its problem in a cost effective way. Cook knows this, which is why he plays the "race to the bottom" canard and then tries to change the subject to the need to get kids to code. Never mind that it is almost certainly easier for your average 7th grader to learn to code on a Chromebook than a device with a 7.9 inch screen that has no keyboard or mouse.
It is almost as if certain people want everyone to use Apple hardware that the exclusion of everything else, and to spare no expense or resource in the pursuit of doing so. It would be far better to expect Apple to either provide products that actually do a better job of meeting real market needs - and yes cost is a legitimate need - or to simply stay out of markets when they cannot or do not want to do so. If you are someone who thinks that kids need to just learn how to use iPads, schools need to restructure their curriculums around them, and districts who can't afford them just need to raise taxes ... you are doing a great job of advocating for Apple but terrible when it comes to considering how technology is actually supposed to be used, which is to solve as many problems for as many people as possible, not merely to provide maximum benefit for a single company or that company's loyal consumers.
Kids don't need iPads, they need Macbooks or Windows Laptops at a certain point. Who wants to graduate high school, and get a job using a Mac or PC with Microsoft Office when all they've used are Chromebooks? Chromebooks are a huge win for schools, because of the price, ease of us, and how it streamlines everything. It's not a huge win for students however, who at some point (early high school), need to use actual programs for photo editing, video editing, and Microsoft Office work.
Chromebooks are a reflection of our times. Test heavy schools, limited government funding and poor tax revenue from economically strained communities. We need to fix overburdened school systems, and allow a greater amount of money to flow into educational system, specifically technology. That way they can invest in better more interactive computers, stuff that will be used by creators and entrepreneurs of the future. (Hint: not Chromebooks).
I personally have no problem with ChromeOS itself and enjoy it, I also don't own a crappy Chromebook, I have the Dell Chromebook 13 with an IPS display and a Broadwell i3. I suspect 9th graders are saddled with some Acer model with a TN panel and a rockchip CPU and that's their window in scholastic technology. Kind of gross and needs to change. But that starts with better school funding and a better economy. Or maybe stop paying a bajillion dollars to have a football program.
Education is filled with dinosaurs. I'd rather Apple not compromise for relics of the past. The edu market has consistently shown an unwillingness to get with the times.
I'd say you're behind the times if you think that schools can afford top-of-the-line tablets these days, when their budgets are constantly getting slashed so hard they can barely afford pencils.
Way to not understand the point TheWhiteFalcon was making. He was referring to the very people who cut the budgets for schools.
He said "education" was filled with dinosaurs. This means he's referring to teachers, school administration, etc., who are often doing everything they can just to get by. The ones cutting the budget are not in education; they're the politicians who always seem to think of education as being the very lowest priority in the whole damn budget. Often they justify it with statements that sound a lot like what TheWhiteFalcon said. :-/
Comments
Coding is an important skill, and nothing about the Chrome OS design prevents a Chromebook from being used to code. Developer Joe Marini posted this 2 years ago, and the tools available to developers have only improved since 2013: Tools for Developing on ChromeOS.
More recently, see: Dressed in Code
In high school, I studied calculus, for which I have never had any practical use in my adult life. That doesn't mean that studying calculus was a waste of time.
Now, bring in a tablet that relies strictly on iCloud and Apps for the masses. These wouldn't need high end GPU, Super HD, 10 hour battery, multi cameras, touch ID, unlimited memory etc etc. You strip it down, you create a new market with client devices. Now every place there are masses of people, you can serve up Apple's way to deliver content, with unmatched reliability, ease of use, and security. Apple is always going to miss out on the education market as long as they keep themselves just out of reach. It is not some much the cost, but the way it's used. Apple's education suite cannot match Google's. Also, after 10 dropped iPads in the first week, no school is going to re-up their order.
We can't be a powerful first world country and have our schools so underfunded as to depend on 3rd world technology.
And this is coming from someone who has a Dell Chromebook and enjoys it as well as his Macbook Pro.
From Google: http://googleforeducation.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-facts-about-student-data-privacy-in.html
From the Student Privacy Pledge creators:
https://fpf.org/2015/12/01/future-of-privacy-forum-statement-regarding-electronic-frontier-foundation-student-privacy-complaint/
Or for a summation of the complete story:
http://fortune.com/2015/12/02/google-eff-chromebook/
And before you or anyone chimes in you should also know I was the very first to post news of the EFF compliant here, a full day or more before AI noted it and nearly a week before you seem to have first read about it. So yeah I post anti-Google news items too. Google does questionable stuff on occasion and should be called out for it when it happens.
On OS X, there are lots of great opportunities to write code using tools that are more accessible to students than what can be done through Xcode. There is AppleScript, Automator and the successors to HyperCard such as Roger Wagner's HyperStudio. There is also Logo.
The problem with Cook's comments is that these options or options like them are not available on iOS. Perhaps he was hinting that these things are coming. I hope so.
While you can get many models of Chromebooks for under $200, the cost of keyboard and screen repairs (the most common point of failure followed shortly by hard drives) will more than out pace the cost of the initial purchase. It will be interesting to see what happens to the cheap device in the K-12 environment. Does the school just plan to purchase new units on a yearly or twice yearly basis?
I think that a lot of Apple fans have forgotten that being able to come up with good, inexpensive solutions to problems has always been a goal of engineering and product design. And as a Chromebook is A) cheaper than a comparable Windows PC and
It is almost as if certain people want everyone to use Apple hardware that the exclusion of everything else, and to spare no expense or resource in the pursuit of doing so. It would be far better to expect Apple to either provide products that actually do a better job of meeting real market needs - and yes cost is a legitimate need - or to simply stay out of markets when they cannot or do not want to do so. If you are someone who thinks that kids need to just learn how to use iPads, schools need to restructure their curriculums around them, and districts who can't afford them just need to raise taxes ... you are doing a great job of advocating for Apple but terrible when it comes to considering how technology is actually supposed to be used, which is to solve as many problems for as many people as possible, not merely to provide maximum benefit for a single company or that company's loyal consumers.
"Everything for $20 per month
Starting at $20/device per month, Chromebooks for Education include the hardware and operating system, updates, cloud-based management, and complete support, all supplied directly from Google. Because schools no longer need to purchase software licenses, servers, security solutions, and maintenance plans, the total cost of owning a Chromebook can be 70% lower than the ownership costs for a traditional PC. After 3 years, schools receive a whole new set of Chromebooks and can keep their original set (without cloud management or ongoing support) at no charge."
http://static.googleusercontent.com/media/www.google.com/en//chromebook/static/pdf/Chromebooks_for_Education.pdf
Chromebooks are a reflection of our times. Test heavy schools, limited government funding and poor tax revenue from economically strained communities. We need to fix overburdened school systems, and allow a greater amount of money to flow into educational system, specifically technology. That way they can invest in better more interactive computers, stuff that will be used by creators and entrepreneurs of the future. (Hint: not Chromebooks).
I personally have no problem with ChromeOS itself and enjoy it, I also don't own a crappy Chromebook, I have the Dell Chromebook 13 with an IPS display and a Broadwell i3. I suspect 9th graders are saddled with some Acer model with a TN panel and a rockchip CPU and that's their window in scholastic technology. Kind of gross and needs to change. But that starts with better school funding and a better economy. Or maybe stop paying a bajillion dollars to have a football program.