Apple announces Apple Pay partnership with China UnionPay, expects 'early 2016' launch

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 30
    As expected, this "good news" sent AAPL stock straight into the latrine this morning. 
  • Reply 22 of 30
    gatorguy said:

    If true (which I doubt given any actual evidence), then Australian banks are stupid.
    There's good business reasons for it actually. Apple wants the same cut of the interchange fees they get in the US. The problem?  Aussie banks only get roughly half of the fees that US banks get to begin with. Giving Apple the same amount they get in the States makes it excessively expensive for them in their view, too much of the pot being shared, particularly when there's other options.  That's why Apple got essentially zero support from Australian national banks when Apple Pay launched there last month. There's little doubt that Apple had to agree to a smaller take to get into China and may have to do the same in other countries like Australia. 

    http://www.techtimes.com/articles/108498/20151120/apple-pay-launches-in-australia-with-zero-support-from-national-banks.htm
    Little doubt?

    The only thing we know is banks have already struck a deal with Google, and are still negotitating with Apple.

    The rest (for example, the fees Apple wants) is pure speculation and rumor. Can you point me to any OFFICIAL statement by Apple or the banks stating the issue is the fees Apple wants?
  • Reply 23 of 30
    So even the Chinese are more willing to sign on the dotted line to allow Pay than the Canadian and Australian banks?

    I've been using Pay with my AMEX here in Canada as much as I can after the launch and JUST F'ING LOVE IT! I've called all my other other CC companies and banks I hold accounts with to enquire about Pay, and they all told me they have no plans to support it until 2016 as they're not seeing technological or security advantages to it. Are you F'ING KIDDING ME?!?!?! Here in Canada, and seemingly Australia, our banks are a freaking monopoly that have ZERO interest in what's best for the consumer, unbelievable!
  • Reply 24 of 30
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,805member
    gatorguy said:

    If true (which I doubt given any actual evidence), then Australian banks are stupid.
    There's good business reasons for it actually. Apple wants the same cut of the interchange fees they get in the US. The problem?  Aussie banks only get roughly half of the fees that US banks get to begin with. Giving Apple the same amount they get in the States makes it excessively expensive for them in their view, too much of the pot being shared, particularly when there's other options.  That's why Apple got essentially zero support from Australian national banks when Apple Pay launched there last month. There's little doubt that Apple had to agree to a smaller take to get into China and may have to do the same in other countries like Australia. 

    http://www.techtimes.com/articles/108498/20151120/apple-pay-launches-in-australia-with-zero-support-from-national-banks.htm
    Little doubt?

    The only thing we know is banks have already struck a deal with Google, and are still negotitating with Apple.

    The rest (for example, the fees Apple wants) is pure speculation and rumor. Can you point me to any OFFICIAL statement by Apple or the banks stating the issue is the fees Apple wants?
    Little doubt means just that. There may be a LITTLE doubt but not much. :-/

    With the total interchange fee China's Union Pay collects at just .38% of the transaction there's little doubt Apple is not going to be given roughly half of that, their US-stipulated .15%. Union Pay has by far the stronger hand and has no reason to give up that much of their profits. IMHO there's little doubt that Apple will have to take a reduced cut in Australia too to get the national banks' blessings. There's a reason Android Pay is already getting substantial support from the Aussie's largest banks. There's little doubt it's about the money. 

    There's also a connected issue in that the Aussie Federal Reserve is pushing hard for a lower .30% fee, making it even less likely Apple will get anywhere near their US-standard .15% of the transaction. 

    There's a similar story that played out in the UK.
    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/02287f44-2a3d-11e5-8613-e7aedbb7bdb7.html

    Good cover tho. We all know that Apple negotiations are confidential so any leaks are attributed to "anonymous insiders". Well-played sir. Be sure to let everyone know when Apple makes any comment whatsoever on Apple Pay fees in any other country. In the meantime I'll just depend on industry comments from those that should know and combine it with some good 'ol common sense. 
    edited December 2015
  • Reply 25 of 30
    gatorguy said:
    Little doubt?

    The only thing we know is banks have already struck a deal with Google, and are still negotitating with Apple.

    The rest (for example, the fees Apple wants) is pure speculation and rumor. Can you point me to any OFFICIAL statement by Apple or the banks stating the issue is the fees Apple wants?
    Little doubt means just that. There may be a LITTLE doubt but not much. :-/

    With the total interchange fee China's Union Pay collects at just .38% of the transaction there's little doubt Apple is not going to be given roughly half of that, their US-stipulated .15%. Union Pay has by far the stronger hand and has no reason to give up that much of their profits. IMHO there's little doubt that Apple will have to take a reduced cut in Australia too to get the national banks' blessings. There's a reason Android Pay is already getting substantial support from the Aussie's largest banks. There's little doubt it's about the money. 

    Funny how you throw the 0.15% figure around as if it's fact, when even that figure is unknown to anyone. And then base your argument on that RUMORED figure. Talk about building your house on a foundation of shifting sand.

    There are MANY possible reasons for the hold up. One big one is Apple's privacy policy and how strict they are. Another is control (we all know Apple likes to be in control of anything attached to their ecosystem). Just look at Apple and the carriers. Apple is in full control of their devices while Android vendors are stuck having to get approval from the carriers for many features (or customers have to wait until carriers approve updates before they get them).

    The funny thing is NOBODY knows what the reasons for the delay are, but are sure quick to jump on the "fees" as being the issue. I guess it's a way to bash Apple as being "greedy" and blame the delay on their greed, instead of looking at ALL possible reasons for the delay.
  • Reply 26 of 30
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,805member
    gatorguy said:
    Little doubt?

    The only thing we know is banks have already struck a deal with Google, and are still negotitating with Apple.

    The rest (for example, the fees Apple wants) is pure speculation and rumor. Can you point me to any OFFICIAL statement by Apple or the banks stating the issue is the fees Apple wants?
    Little doubt means just that. There may be a LITTLE doubt but not much. :-/

    With the total interchange fee China's Union Pay collects at just .38% of the transaction there's little doubt Apple is not going to be given roughly half of that, their US-stipulated .15%. Union Pay has by far the stronger hand and has no reason to give up that much of their profits. IMHO there's little doubt that Apple will have to take a reduced cut in Australia too to get the national banks' blessings. There's a reason Android Pay is already getting substantial support from the Aussie's largest banks. There's little doubt it's about the money. 

    Funny how you throw the 0.15% figure around as if it's fact, when even that figure is unknown to anyone. 
    http://digitaltransactions.net/news/story/Issuers_-Apple-Pay-Pact-Assigns-Remarkable-Authority-to-Card-Networks-As-Well-As-Apple
    The link to the original contract is gone (likely take-down notice I assume), but I may still have one. If so I'll post it in a bit. 
  • Reply 27 of 30
    gatorguy said:

    Funny how you throw the 0.15% figure around as if it's fact, when even that figure is unknown to anyone. 
    http://digitaltransactions.net/news/story/Issuers_-Apple-Pay-Pact-Assigns-Remarkable-Authority-to-Card-Networks-As-Well-As-Apple
    The link to the original contract is gone (likely take-down notice I assume), but I may still have one. If so I'll post it in a bit. 

    Even IF such a contract exists (which I have never seen, and am quite surprised if it actually was online that AI or all the other sites didn't have articles about it), it still doesn't change the fact your premise is incorrect.

    You claim Apple had to take a huge cut in fees in order to get into China. Yet you also claim that fees are the holdup in Australia. Logically it doesn't make sense. If Apple is willing to drop their fees in one country, why not in another (especially one as insignificant as Australia)?

    Apple Pay is NOT a revenue driver for Apple. It's another value-added service Apple has to increase the desirability of iOS devices. They don't want or need to make money on Apple Pay. The fees are so small (even the rumored 0.15% in the US) that I doubt it even covers the cost to run Apple Pay (at least currently).
  • Reply 28 of 30
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,805member
    gatorguy said:

    Funny how you throw the 0.15% figure around as if it's fact, when even that figure is unknown to anyone. 
    http://digitaltransactions.net/news/story/Issuers_-Apple-Pay-Pact-Assigns-Remarkable-Authority-to-Card-Networks-As-Well-As-Apple
    The link to the original contract is gone (likely take-down notice I assume), but I may still have one. If so I'll post it in a bit. 

    Even IF such a contract exists (which I have never seen, and am quite surprised if it actually was online that AI or all the other sites didn't have articles about it), it still doesn't change the fact your premise is incorrect.

    You claim Apple had to take a huge cut in fees in order to get into China. Yet you also claim that fees are the holdup in Australia. Logically it doesn't make sense. If Apple is willing to drop their fees in one country, why not in another (especially one as insignificant as Australia)?

    Apple Pay is NOT a revenue driver for Apple. It's another value-added service Apple has to increase the desirability of iOS devices. They don't want or need to make money on Apple Pay. The fees are so small (even the rumored 0.15% in the US) that I doubt it even covers the cost to run Apple Pay (at least currently).
    So just to get a better idea if you're arguing just to argue are you saying you do have serious doubts that money is the holdup
  • Reply 29 of 30
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,805member
    gatorguy said:

    Funny how you throw the 0.15% figure around as if it's fact, when even that figure is unknown to anyone. 
    http://digitaltransactions.net/news/story/Issuers_-Apple-Pay-Pact-Assigns-Remarkable-Authority-to-Card-Networks-As-Well-As-Apple
    The link to the original contract is gone (likely take-down notice I assume), but I may still have one. If so I'll post it in a bit. 

    Even IF such a contract exists (which I have never seen, and am quite surprised if it actually was online that AI or all the other sites didn't have articles about it), it still doesn't change the fact your premise is incorrect.

    You claim Apple had to take a huge cut in fees in order to get into China. Yet you also claim that fees are the holdup in Australia. Logically it doesn't make sense. If Apple is willing to drop their fees in one country, why not in another (especially one as insignificant as Australia)?

    Apple Pay is NOT a revenue driver for Apple. It's another value-added service Apple has to increase the desirability of iOS devices. They don't want or need to make money on Apple Pay. The fees are so small (even the rumored 0.15% in the US) that I doubt it even covers the cost to run Apple Pay (at least currently).
    You are absolutely correct that usage stats show Apple Pay isn't driving phone sales, and in fact the percentage of iPhone owners who use it was in decline in recent months. That would be one obvious reason for Apple to be anxious to swing a deal in China. To cue Eddy "China is an extremely important market for Apple".  Australia not so much as you pointed out. 
    edited December 2015
  • Reply 30 of 30
    According to the Verge, Samsung Pay is coming to UnionPay in 2016 too so this doesn't seem like anything exclusive for Apple.

    http://www.theverge.com/2015/12/18/10526450/samsung-pay-china-unionpay-2016-launch
    where does the story claim its exclusive to Apple? why would you expect the banks to sign something exclusive?
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