Companies only worn if they're going to miss guidance. Apple didn't miss guidance for the quarter they reported on. And the didn't previously provide guidance for March. Just a week or two ago you were calling all rheas rumors BS now you're whining that Cook didn't get in front of them. If the numbers are going to be weak they're going to be weak and there's nothing Cook can say to change that.
Bullshit. You can warn about anything you want. Hell we got companies that warn about revenue projections 12 months away. Of course Apple could have warned about March.
Apple's suppliers who did not even release December earnings were warning about March sales. Apple should have done the same. Apple knew March sales were going to be weak in December because they were already cutting orders.
If Apple warned about March when the rumors started that would have stopped the bleeding. There would be no mystery. But Cook allowed the company to continue to bleed, and bleed, and bleed. If he acknowldged the weakness in December the stock probably would have dropped but not to where we are going now. We will see $85 now. That is EXACTLY why companies warn, to get ahead of the rumors and stop the bleeding.
Now Apple will bleed some more. The stock was already down $4 this morning. This type of behavior makes investors not trust Cook. I know I don't trust him. I won't sell a single share. I'm going to wait it out. Tim Cook will be fired within the next 12 months. You can bank on it. And once he does this stock will take off again.
It does seem almost fraudulent to me that he didn't warn - especially in light of the fact that he had previously, on numerous occasions, instructed investors to ignore supply chain data. Maintaining silence while all of the reports were being circulated seems negligent, almost fraudulent and an attempt to deliberately hide things from investors. I'm very curious to know if he personally sold any shares over the past 3-4 months. That information should become public at some point - shouldn't it? Where?
"We’ve invested through economic uncertainty in the past, and we’ve always come out stronger on the other side. In fact, some of the most important breakthrough products in Apple’s history were born as a result of investing through the downturn. We’ve also seen these times as opportunities to invest in new markets, just as we’re doing now in areas such as India and other emerging markets." Tim Cook
This is the reason that Steve Jobs wanted a pile of cash available for a rainy day; lots of talent to retain and more to pick up, on the cheap.
I’m starting to come around to @sog35 ’s point of view. I almost hope AAPL tanks massively so Apple can buy back even more shares. If Apple’s market cap drops to $200 billion they have the cash to literally buy themselves. Taking the company private would eliminate all this Doomed™ nonsense. Apple would still be Apple, its products would still be great, its customers still loyal. The extreme pressure to produce short term results would vanish, the politically correctness Nazis would be muzzled. This was discussed on yesterday’s MacBreak Weekly podcast. The Apple some of us here love (the iHaters are growing in numbers on AI) has become completely disconnected from AAPL the stock. Investors in public corporations have different goals, different demands than we customers.
Ha ha! That's not the way it works! The companies valuation will change with each share repurchased. Apple doesn't "own" the shares it repurchases - it cancels them. When they repurchase shares, they're doing so with shareholder money - not their own money. So there is no possible way that they can "buy themselves".
Consider a hypothetical scenario where Apple buys back half of the total number of outstanding shares...before the purchase, the company valuations was 200billion and there were 2 billion shares outstanding. After the buyback, the company will still be worth 200 billion, but instead of being broken down into 2 billion pieces, it's broken down into 1 billion pieces - so each piece becomes worth twice what it used to be. So the remaining shares keep becoming more and more expensive - but let's say Apple finds a way to keep buying and keep buying so that they eventually get to the point where there are only 10 shares left! Those 10 shares would be worth 20 billion dollars each! So they buy 5 of them and now we're left with 5 shares at 40 billion dollars each. Eventually, they are left with 1 share worth 200 billion dollars which Apple can't buy because the company can't own itself. Somebody has to own it. So at that point it is essentially private and owned in whole by the person who holds the 1 remaining share. (Damn - I hope it's me!)
Dipshits. Start reading the news and tracking economies.
Brent crude's at $31.74 and its killing oil producing countries, literally, so they aren't buyers. The bottom is considered $10 which is the point that the market has saturated all of the available oil storage in the world. There's only two large economies that are in growth; the U.S. and China.
What the hell do you think could possibly go wrong and yet Apple is still selling huge volumes of product.
Bullshit. You can warn about anything you want. Hell we got companies that warn about revenue projections 12 months away. Of course Apple could have warned about March.
Apple's suppliers who did not even release December earnings were warning about March sales. Apple should have done the same. Apple knew March sales were going to be weak in December because they were already cutting orders.
If Apple warned about March when the rumors started that would have stopped the bleeding. There would be no mystery. But Cook allowed the company to continue to bleed, and bleed, and bleed. If he acknowldged the weakness in December the stock probably would have dropped but not to where we are going now. We will see $85 now. That is EXACTLY why companies warn, to get ahead of the rumors and stop the bleeding.
Now Apple will bleed some more. The stock was already down $4 this morning. This type of behavior makes investors not trust Cook. I know I don't trust him. I won't sell a single share. I'm going to wait it out. Tim Cook will be fired within the next 12 months. You can bank on it. And once he does this stock will take off again.
It does seem almost fraudulent to me that he didn't warn - especially in light of the fact that he had previously, on numerous occasions, instructed investors to ignore supply chain data. Maintaining silence while all of the reports were being circulated seems negligent, almost fraudulent and an attempt to deliberately hide things from investors. I'm very curious to know if he personally sold any shares over the past 3-4 months. That information should become public at some point - shouldn't it? Where?
I think any stock sales by executives become public almost immediately. Not sure if they need to announce it prior to the sale.
Munster/White were the only ones who had $600-$700 price targets in 2014 when the rest of Wall Street thought Samsung was going to destroy Apple. Most other analyst had targets of $400-$500. So Munster/White have been correct regarding Apple's long term prospects.
White has always been delusionally high. ISTR $888 was his price target in late 2012 as Apple proceeded to drop to $380 over the next 7 months or so, and right now, it's $200 ($1400 pre-split). He's just a little less nutty than Zaky was. Munster pushed the stupid TV idea for years, and that was his ticket to the holy land. Now it's Apple buying Tesla.
Just another example of Tim Cook mismanaging the company.
If Cook knew the March quarter was going to be weak he should have warned earlier. Now the stock is going to get punished during the rumor (weak supply chain) and also during the news (earnings). Cook should have gotten in front of the rumors of weak sales. Instead he did nothing and allowed the story to be spread and repeated for EIGHT WEEKS.
Stock was down over 4% this morning and won't be surprised if it goes down another 10% for a total of a 40% drop since last year. If Tim managed the company better he would have warned when the stock was at $120 and yes it would drop. But it would not be $85 like it will now. It would be strongly above $100-$110 right now.
I want to agree with you - but was it appropriate or even legal for him to do so? There was no miss this quarter and they hadn't released any guidance yet for next quarter. I honestly don't know what the rules are. Are you sure that he would have been legally allowed to say anything? Or were they in a quiet period? What I found interesting is that they didn't seem to have accelerated the share buyback. That tells me that they think it might still go lower. If they really thought this was the "bottom", I would have thought that they would have spent ALL of the allocated funds.
I'm set to lose a ton on call options that expire in April and July. Glad that I put most of my money in actual shares. I was actually tempted to put it ALL into options back in September. I need $119 to break even on the options - and at this point it's really not looking good. If they expire worthless, it's pretty much all of the profit I've made on Apple in the last 5 years reduced to 0.
No, he should not have pre-announced anything for the next quarter. You are correct in your statements - there was no miss on this quarter and thus no requirement to pre-announce anything (and companies usually only pre-announce if they miss their own guidance by a sizeable amount). The guidance for next quarter was given here.
Ignore @sog35 - literally put him on ignore and you will find your time on these forums much more enjoyable.
In a rare move, Apple released supplemental material along with its usual 8-K SEC filing to demonstrate the extent to which currency headwinds impacted results. It was calculated that $100 of non-U.S. dollar revenue at the end of fiscal 2014 translates to only $85 in the just ended period, meaning first quarter 2015 revenue would have been $5 billion higher at "constant currency." This disparity was the first issue Cook addressed in today's call.
Why use "constant currency" to fudge the numbers? Apple has been raising prices overseas to compensate for the U.S. dollar movement.
All companies with substantial overseas revenues report this in one way or another. My company always provides both "what they got" based on changes to the exchange rates, as well as what it would have been with constant exchange rates, which does allow investors a view as to company performance without exchange rate changes.
Think about it for a minute. It makes perfect sense for investors and is not in anyway a fudge.
I want to agree with you - but was it appropriate or even legal for him to do so? There was no miss this quarter and they hadn't released any guidance yet for next quarter. I honestly don't know what the rules are. Are you sure that he would have been legally allowed to say anything? Or were they in a quiet period? What I found interesting is that they didn't seem to have accelerated the share buyback. That tells me that they think it might still go lower. If they really thought this was the "bottom", I would have thought that they would have spent ALL of the allocated funds.
I'm set to lose a ton on call options that expire in April and July. Glad that I put most of my money in actual shares. I was actually tempted to put it ALL into options back in September. I need $119 to break even on the options - and at this point it's really not looking good. If they expire worthless, it's pretty much all of the profit I've made on Apple in the last 5 years reduced to 0.
No, he should not have pre-announced anything for the next quarter. You are correct in your statements - there was no miss on this quarter and thus no requirement to pre-announce anything (and companies usually only pre-announce if they miss their own guidance by a sizeable amount). The guidance for next quarter was given here.
Ignore @sog35 - literally put him on ignore and you will find your time on these forums much more enjoyable.
It does seem almost fraudulent to me that he didn't warn - especially in light of the fact that he had previously, on numerous occasions, instructed investors to ignore supply chain data. Maintaining silence while all of the reports were being circulated seems negligent, almost fraudulent and an attempt to deliberately hide things from investors. I'm very curious to know if he personally sold any shares over the past 3-4 months. That information should become public at some point - shouldn't it? Where?
Tim Cook never told anyone to ignore multiple major suppliers, including sole suppliers of parts that go into every iPhone and iPad like Cirrus Logic and Dialog, posting bad quarters and guidance and/or warning about missing guidance. Some of the blind faithers actually mischaracterized these facts as "rumors". I did what I could to dispel that.
Bullshit. You can warn about anything you want. Hell we got companies that warn about revenue projections 12 months away. Of course Apple could have warned about March.
Apple's suppliers who did not even release December earnings were warning about March sales. Apple should have done the same. Apple knew March sales were going to be weak in December because they were already cutting orders.
If Apple warned about March when the rumors started that would have stopped the bleeding. There would be no mystery. But Cook allowed the company to continue to bleed, and bleed, and bleed. If he acknowldged the weakness in December the stock probably would have dropped but not to where we are going now. We will see $85 now. That is EXACTLY why companies warn, to get ahead of the rumors and stop the bleeding.
Now Apple will bleed some more. The stock was already down $4 this morning. This type of behavior makes investors not trust Cook. I know I don't trust him. I won't sell a single share. I'm going to wait it out. Tim Cook will be fired within the next 12 months. You can bank on it. And once he does this stock will take off again.
It does seem almost fraudulent to me that he didn't warn - especially in light of the fact that he had previously, on numerous occasions, instructed investors to ignore supply chain data. Maintaining silence while all of the reports were being circulated seems negligent, almost fraudulent and an attempt to deliberately hide things from investors. I'm very curious to know if he personally sold any shares over the past 3-4 months. That information should become public at some point - shouldn't it? Where?
It is not fraudulent at all. A company will only warn if the current quarter's guidance will be missed on either revenue or earnings (and usually only if the miss is substantial, like 5% of more is my experience).
At the quarterly earnings call, when guidance is given for the next quarter (if a company does that), that is when they provide the information. Apple just did so, and guided for a decline YoY.
All shares sold by executives are reported, and you can bet in a company of Apple's stature, no exec is going risk to selling shares with a hint of insider trading.
This is how the adults do it. Ignore children like sog35, who are in way over their heads, and cannot contain a single emotion.
Another thing to think about is in the past growth was fueled by new geographies with countries like China coming in wave 2 or 3 of a product cycle. Now most of that is front loaded. China is a wave 1 country now.
This is how the adults do it. Ignore children like sog35, who are in way over their heads, and cannot contain a single emotion.
Amen. The markets are not for the faint of heart. If you can't handle the volatility, put your money into guaranteed investments. You know going in full well, there's manipulation and factors beyond your control.
And while I don't agree with everything Cook had done (from a product standpoint), it's highly unlikely he will be fired. And constantly crying about it just make you look...well, like a child.
Dipshits. Start reading the news and tracking economies.
Brent crude's at $31.74 and its killing oil producing countries, literally, so they aren't buyers. The bottom is considered $10 which is the point that the market has saturated all of the available oil storage in the world. There's only two large economies that are in growth; the U.S. and China.
What the hell do you think could possibly go wrong and yet Apple is still selling huge volumes of product.
Here in Canada our $ has fallen hugely against the USD, and Apple products are now much more expensive (iPhone 6s starts at $881 CAD). However, even the price increase by Apple (in this case set back in Sept 2015) isn't compensating completely - the CAD price is built at ~1.35 exchange rate, but the rate has been around 1.4 for much of December and January. Thus Apple earning less on each iPhone sold, due to currency movements.
So the high USD is causing prices to be much higher elsewhere which reduces demand somewhat, and at the same time what is earned in those countries & converted back to USD is hit on that exchange rate where the increased prices may not be compensating.
It is a "real" headwind. Not fudging of numbers. If only many on these forums would spend 1/2 as much time complaining on actually learning & understanding things.
No, he should not have pre-announced anything for the next quarter. You are correct in your statements - there was no miss on this quarter and thus no requirement to pre-announce anything (and companies usually only pre-announce if they miss their own guidance by a sizeable amount). The guidance for next quarter was given here.
Ignore @sog35 - literally put him on ignore and you will find your time on these forums much more enjoyable.
Absolutely agree. But from Tenly's statement that Tim is "almost fraudulent to me that he didn't warn" already tells me she is lost in the woods (along with sog). Really wish sog would stop posting and take a year off.
Why use "constant currency" to fudge the numbers? Apple has been raising prices overseas to compensate for the U.S. dollar movement.
The price increases are extremely recent - and prices have not been increased everywhere. The price increases help but don't completely compensate for the currency changes.
"Constant currency" is a valid way to convey what would have happened if there had been no "currency headwind" which is largely beyond Apples control - except it doesn't tell the whole story because as you mentioned, Apple has had to raise prices in some countries to help compensate - this always has the effect of reducing sales volumes - so if there had been no headwind, they would have sold more phones too.
...
One thing I don't get on this: Nearly all of the iPhone's component costs are in Asian depreciated currencies. So if the US dollar gains big, the raw cost for Apple for the most part goes down a similar percentage (R&D is separately expensed in US dollars). It would seem then to maintain the current profit margin, the iPhone costs could be relatively constant in the rest of the world and actually go down in the US! Granted there are undoubtedly multi-year component contracts, but ultimately they parallel the exchange rate. Why does Apple have to raise prices to keep everything in constant dollars in a global production environment?
Ignore @sog35 - literally put him on ignore and you will find your time on these forums much more enjoyable.
Absolutely agree. But from Tenly's statement that Tim is "almost fraudulent to me that he didn't warn" already tells me she is lost in the woods (along with sog). Really wish sog would stop posting and take a year off.
2 corrections - 1. I said "almost" after defending his decision to not say anything 2. I'm not a she
Companies only worn if they're going to miss guidance. Apple didn't miss guidance for the quarter they reported on. And the didn't previously provide guidance for March. Just a week or two ago you were calling all rheas rumors BS now you're whining that Cook didn't get in front of them. If the numbers are going to be weak they're going to be weak and there's nothing Cook can say to change that.
Bullshit. You can warn about anything you want. Hell we got companies that warn about revenue projections 12 months away. Of course Apple could have warned about March.
Apple's suppliers who did not even release December earnings were warning about March sales. Apple should have done the same. Apple knew March sales were going to be weak in December because they were already cutting orders.
If Apple warned about March when the rumors started that would have stopped the bleeding. There would be no mystery. But Cook allowed the company to continue to bleed, and bleed, and bleed. If he acknowldged the weakness in December the stock probably would have dropped but not to where we are going now. We will see $85 now. That is EXACTLY why companies warn, to get ahead of the rumors and stop the bleeding.
Now Apple will bleed some more. The stock was already down $4 this morning. This type of behavior makes investors not trust Cook. I know I don't trust him. I won't sell a single share. I'm going to wait it out. Tim Cook will be fired within the next 12 months. You can bank on it. And once he does this stock will take off again.
The next twelve months? Considering you lied about your self-ban for 2016 I'd say it's a safe bet we'll see Cook in 2017
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"We’ve invested through economic uncertainty in the past, and we’ve always come out stronger on the other side. In fact, some of the most important breakthrough products in Apple’s history were born as a result of investing through the downturn. We’ve also seen these times as opportunities to invest in new markets, just as we’re doing now in areas such as India and other emerging markets." Tim Cook
This is the reason that Steve Jobs wanted a pile of cash available for a rainy day; lots of talent to retain and more to pick up, on the cheap.
Consider a hypothetical scenario where Apple buys back half of the total number of outstanding shares...before the purchase, the company valuations was 200billion and there were 2 billion shares outstanding. After the buyback, the company will still be worth 200 billion, but instead of being broken down into 2 billion pieces, it's broken down into 1 billion pieces - so each piece becomes worth twice what it used to be. So the remaining shares keep becoming more and more expensive - but let's say Apple finds a way to keep buying and keep buying so that they eventually get to the point where there are only 10 shares left! Those 10 shares would be worth 20 billion dollars each! So they buy 5 of them and now we're left with 5 shares at 40 billion dollars each. Eventually, they are left with 1 share worth 200 billion dollars which Apple can't buy because the company can't own itself. Somebody has to own it. So at that point it is essentially private and owned in whole by the person who holds the 1 remaining share. (Damn - I hope it's me!)
It's Tim's fault or more popularly Thanks Tim!
Dipshits. Start reading the news and tracking economies.
Brent crude's at $31.74 and its killing oil producing countries, literally, so they aren't buyers. The bottom is considered $10 which is the point that the market has saturated all of the available oil storage in the world. There's only two large economies that are in growth; the U.S. and China.
What the hell do you think could possibly go wrong and yet Apple is still selling huge volumes of product.
Ignore @sog35 - literally put him on ignore and you will find your time on these forums much more enjoyable.
All companies with substantial overseas revenues report this in one way or another. My company always provides both "what they got" based on changes to the exchange rates, as well as what it would have been with constant exchange rates, which does allow investors a view as to company performance without exchange rate changes.
At the quarterly earnings call, when guidance is given for the next quarter (if a company does that), that is when they provide the information. Apple just did so, and guided for a decline YoY.
All shares sold by executives are reported, and you can bet in a company of Apple's stature, no exec is going risk to selling shares with a hint of insider trading.
This is how the adults do it. Ignore children like sog35, who are in way over their heads, and cannot contain a single emotion.
You know going in full well, there's manipulation and factors beyond your control.
And while I don't agree with everything Cook had done (from a product standpoint), it's highly unlikely he will be fired. And constantly crying about it just make you look...well, like a child.
It is a "real" headwind. Not fudging of numbers. If only many on these forums would spend 1/2 as much time complaining on actually learning & understanding things.
1. I said "almost" after defending his decision to not say anything
2. I'm not a she