Freakn' amazn. Everybody hate to pay more for less, but this is paying something for more. If you don't want it, don't buy it. If you cannot live until 10.2.1 then it is going to be short life. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> OOPs, did I let anything out of the bag suggesting that TENPOINTTWO is not the omega of existence. <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" />
Well, I was thinking, upgrading Mac OS 8.6 -> 9.0 cost $99. Mac OS X 10.1 -> 10.2 is probably similar, feature-wise. Some improvements, but nothing completely new.
<strong>They said that NeXt would make major releases w/a single decimal point (10.2) and minor releases w/double decimals (10.1.5).
...A friend of mine recently 'switched.' I think it was a month or two ago, so he is not eligible for the up-to-date. Welcome to Macintosh.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, NeXT, like other *nixes used full point upgrades as major ones. That seems to be the model Apple is working with now.
As far as the upgrade for your friend, wouldn't this also be true with Windows? I really don't know about what the upgrade policy is there. It would be a good comparison.
<strong>XP Home and XP Pro are identical OSs. The only difference is that the Pro version has more networking capabilities which the average home user will never need. Severe disadvantages?! Do tell.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Used XP? XP Home crippled compared to Pro. MS took features built into XP and just shut them off. Features That are important and useful are just gone. It goes way beyond "networking capabilities". Ever have to resize your partitions on the fly? This can be incredibly useful. Pro can do it, but Home taks it away. Remote desktop? Very useful and important to many. And as you say, many networking capabilites are gone. Other ommission are there too. So, if want Home, basically stripped of all the features of XP that actually make it useful, it's $99, want a working version it's $199.
<strong>The only difference is that the Pro version has more networking capabilities which the average home user will never need.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Automated system recovery.
Multi-processor support.
Remote Desktop, networking, etc. (as mentioned)
Encryption.
Anything other than VERY basic multi-user support. (i.e. no group management).
Multiple languages.
Granted, a typical home user doesn't need much of this, but the differences are more than just a few networking issues.
I agree that apple needs to make money during the down times but they would probably make more money selling $30-70 upgrades than $130 full versions.
If the price is right more consumers will jump on the band wagon. Apple has to remember that the downturn in economy is also hurting the consumers pockets. To coax them to get their wallets out, you have to offer something within their price range.
Is there anyway to forward the contents of is thread to Mr. Jobs ?
I'm not sure if anyone said this (quit reading about 1/2 way down sorry people below) Anyway, people are talking about how windows this and windows. Don't I mean (Pun way over used but) Apple to oranges. I mean you don't see a window user updating with every X.X.X Windows people Rarely update. I mean you dont see window users watching a skipping video feed of Billy talking about an upgrade. We are unique. We will all pay for Jaguar. People were building up 10.2 to be everything, They wanted OS11 but come on. And does it suck to pay, yes, but Don't be to worried if you couldn't afford it you wouldn't have bought mac, and if you really couldn't (IE Family consumer) You wouldn't need to upgrade. This Macworld was like no other, it did what apple needed to do. It allowed consumers to have choices. Ipod, ipod on PC, 17 iMac and 2 new iApps. I was happy about this. I mean look at what happened. I got off topic. Yeah, 10.2 isn't 11, and if cost is an issue as simple as Dont upgrade.
Anything other than VERY basic multi-user support. (i.e. no group management).
Multiple languages.
Granted, a typical home user doesn't need much of this, but the differences are more than just a few networking issues.</strong><hr></blockquote>System recovery is indeed part of XP Home. Also my sister has 4 users on her machine and they switch seamlessly and are easily maintained. The other mentioned items go along with what I said earlier - not for an average home user. The look, setup, feel, file system, and most of all - the stability are the same.
We paid full retail every year from 1997-2001 (except 2000) for Apple Mac OS updates. Why should 2002 be different? The only reason why we didn't pay in 2000 was because of the massive development on OS X.
1997 - Mac OS 8 - $99
1998 - Mac OS 8.5 - $99
1999 - Mac OS 9 - $99
2000 - Mac OS X Public Beta - $29
2001 - Mac OS X 10.0 - $129 ($30 coupon available for PB users)
2002 - Mac OS X Jaguar - $129
Inflation and development costs seem to justify the price to me. Consider Windows 2000 was $300, and XP Pro Upgrade is $200. Mac OS X Jaguar is a steal.
"Jaguar"? More like PUSSY. Can I justify upgrading from 10.1.>
Lets take those super cool "new" features....
iChat - pretty interface, pretty useless.
check out MSN Messenger 3.0 Mac.
It does exactly what it says on the box.
Mail - Hmmm, I can get most of what I need
with Hotmail, Yahoo etc.
Address Book - Sorry, dont need it.
Sherlock 3 - Google Rocks!
QuickTime 6 - Now this has potential! Just wish more on-line streaming content providers used QuickTime instead of Real/WMP etc..
Finder - Pretty good.
Rendezvous - Very nice if your in business, otherwise <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Quartz Extreme - Nice but not essential.
Inkwell - Sorry, don't have a graphics tablet and don't need one.
Unix - The only thing I'm "Developing" is a headache.
Compatibility - The more compatible us Mac users can get with the dreaded "wintel" the better for us all.
Universal Access - Good, but should have been in previous versions.
...all said and done, its not bad but then for a full price upgrade, its not good either.
Apple, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Give us previous X users a proper discount or you may just have a warehouse full of "Jaguar" CD roms to shift as well as outdated hardware. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
2001 - Mac OS X 10.0 - $129 ($30 coupon available for PB users)
2002 - Mac OS X Jaguar - $129
<hr></blockquote>
As Eugene shows, this is not such an odd price to pay for an OS upgrade that gives such functionality.
I can't believe that people whine so much about having to pay for an OS upgrade. Do the amortized math- this comes down to about 33 cents a day for an OS upgrade. If you can't afford that, then I hope that you aren't eating food.
I remember that 8.5 was like a $100 upgrade from 8.1, right? This seems like it has a lot more improvements from 10.1 than 8.5 did over 8.1, at least as far as I remember.
From the point of view of someone who has had the pleasure of project managing several large WIn95/NT4/Win2K projects, I'd just like to clarify a few things re: Jaguar vs. MS Service Packs.
Service Packs are very rarely used to deliver new functionality, unless MS is trying to pilot that functionality in the real world (e.g. DfS) because a more strategic project (e.g. Win2000) is running late.
More often than not, service packs are nothing more than double digit releases (i.e. 10.1.x), correcting some of the xxx,000 "issues" that were in Win2K prior to its (delayed) release, or addressing previously unknown security issues.
Jaguar - despite the name 10.2 - does have new functionality: the new .Mac; iSync, iCal, etc: If you want iSync (a free add-in), you pay the $129.00; if you don't, save your money and wait for 10.3 or 10.4 or until the value proposition "floats your boat", which may be OS XI (2004 is a solid bet as far as I'm concerned).
10.1.5 is perfectly OK as an OS and will still be OK as an OS for another 18 months.
And if you don't think MS charges for upgrades, what is the 31/07 deadline for Upgrade Advantage all about then?
As for free e-mail - I'm looking at Apple's web site and cannot find any reference to the company becoming a registered charity. Free e-mail was an abberation of the late nineties - a fact which is validated by the HotMail, Yahoo et al moving to commercial models.
Why should Apple pay money to provide expensive capital equipment, comms links, and management just so some cheapskates can exchange unfunny jokes with their mates?
Should their be .Mac and .Mac Pro is another issue? I think their should be Mail and iCal support for $60, whilst $99 buys you everything else.
<strong>System recovery is indeed part of XP Home.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My mistake, yeah it's on the CD, but not installed by default.
[quote]<strong>Also my sister has 4 users on her machine and they switch seamlessly and are easily maintained.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sure it works, but the support for administration of the accounts is severely lacking, as is the ability to restrict parts of the system in anything other than a general way.
Oh yeah, XP Home also does not support dual displays from a single adapter. (It can be done I've heard, just not elegantly or easily.)
I'm not saying XP is complete crap (other than the UI of course), I'm just saying that there are a lot of differences between the two versions, differences that can show up at inopportune times, even for basic home users.
am surprised there is no upgrade price in addition to the full price. but my wife is still a student, so i'll get it at the educational discount.
but it does suck for everyone else.
you can do what i used to do when i couldn't afford software... find friends and split the cost. yeah, it's not very legal, but it's MORE legal than other methods (and you can still get some support, manuals, upgrades, etc.)
just a thought. and, uh, you didn't hear this from me.
SWEET! My parents ordered a new iBook 5 minutes ago! (Guess who's gonna get the reciept and proof of purchase?) ME, that's right! LOL, now I can upgrade to Jag for the $20! Sweet!!!!! I was trying to plot out how I would manage this. Awsome!
Comments
<strong>They said that NeXt would make major releases w/a single decimal point (10.2) and minor releases w/double decimals (10.1.5).
...A friend of mine recently 'switched.' I think it was a month or two ago, so he is not eligible for the up-to-date. Welcome to Macintosh.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, NeXT, like other *nixes used full point upgrades as major ones. That seems to be the model Apple is working with now.
As far as the upgrade for your friend, wouldn't this also be true with Windows? I really don't know about what the upgrade policy is there. It would be a good comparison.
<strong>XP Home and XP Pro are identical OSs. The only difference is that the Pro version has more networking capabilities which the average home user will never need. Severe disadvantages?! Do tell.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Used XP? XP Home crippled compared to Pro. MS took features built into XP and just shut them off. Features That are important and useful are just gone. It goes way beyond "networking capabilities". Ever have to resize your partitions on the fly? This can be incredibly useful. Pro can do it, but Home taks it away. Remote desktop? Very useful and important to many. And as you say, many networking capabilites are gone. Other ommission are there too. So, if want Home, basically stripped of all the features of XP that actually make it useful, it's $99, want a working version it's $199.
<strong>The only difference is that the Pro version has more networking capabilities which the average home user will never need.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Automated system recovery.
Multi-processor support.
Remote Desktop, networking, etc. (as mentioned)
Encryption.
Anything other than VERY basic multi-user support. (i.e. no group management).
Multiple languages.
Granted, a typical home user doesn't need much of this, but the differences are more than just a few networking issues.
If the price is right more consumers will jump on the band wagon. Apple has to remember that the downturn in economy is also hurting the consumers pockets. To coax them to get their wallets out, you have to offer something within their price range.
Is there anyway to forward the contents of is thread to Mr. Jobs ?
Just my bitching about your bitching
-MJE
<strong>
Automated system recovery.
Multi-processor support.
Remote Desktop, networking, etc. (as mentioned)
Encryption.
Anything other than VERY basic multi-user support. (i.e. no group management).
Multiple languages.
Granted, a typical home user doesn't need much of this, but the differences are more than just a few networking issues.</strong><hr></blockquote>System recovery is indeed part of XP Home. Also my sister has 4 users on her machine and they switch seamlessly and are easily maintained. The other mentioned items go along with what I said earlier - not for an average home user. The look, setup, feel, file system, and most of all - the stability are the same.
1997 - Mac OS 8 - $99
1998 - Mac OS 8.5 - $99
1999 - Mac OS 9 - $99
2000 - Mac OS X Public Beta - $29
2001 - Mac OS X 10.0 - $129 ($30 coupon available for PB users)
2002 - Mac OS X Jaguar - $129
Inflation and development costs seem to justify the price to me. Consider Windows 2000 was $300, and XP Pro Upgrade is $200. Mac OS X Jaguar is a steal.
Jag' IS a steal. Just how much more could Apple pack into one update? Rendevous looks amazing!
Stunning.
Can anybody ever remember a better Mac OS upgrade?
I can't.
Lemon Bon Bon
Lets take those super cool "new" features....
iChat - pretty interface, pretty useless.
check out MSN Messenger 3.0 Mac.
It does exactly what it says on the box.
Mail - Hmmm, I can get most of what I need
with Hotmail, Yahoo etc.
Address Book - Sorry, dont need it.
Sherlock 3 - Google Rocks!
QuickTime 6 - Now this has potential! Just wish more on-line streaming content providers used QuickTime instead of Real/WMP etc..
Finder - Pretty good.
Rendezvous - Very nice if your in business, otherwise <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Quartz Extreme - Nice but not essential.
Inkwell - Sorry, don't have a graphics tablet and don't need one.
Unix - The only thing I'm "Developing" is a headache.
Compatibility - The more compatible us Mac users can get with the dreaded "wintel" the better for us all.
Universal Access - Good, but should have been in previous versions.
...all said and done, its not bad but then for a full price upgrade, its not good either.
Apple, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Give us previous X users a proper discount or you may just have a warehouse full of "Jaguar" CD roms to shift as well as outdated hardware. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
1997 - Mac OS 8 - $99
1998 - Mac OS 8.5 - $99
1999 - Mac OS 9 - $99
2000 - Mac OS X Public Beta - $29
2001 - Mac OS X 10.0 - $129 ($30 coupon available for PB users)
2002 - Mac OS X Jaguar - $129
<hr></blockquote>
As Eugene shows, this is not such an odd price to pay for an OS upgrade that gives such functionality.
I can't believe that people whine so much about having to pay for an OS upgrade. Do the amortized math- this comes down to about 33 cents a day for an OS upgrade. If you can't afford that, then I hope that you aren't eating food.
[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Yevgeny ]</p>
Matthew
Service Packs are very rarely used to deliver new functionality, unless MS is trying to pilot that functionality in the real world (e.g. DfS) because a more strategic project (e.g. Win2000) is running late.
More often than not, service packs are nothing more than double digit releases (i.e. 10.1.x), correcting some of the xxx,000 "issues" that were in Win2K prior to its (delayed) release, or addressing previously unknown security issues.
Jaguar - despite the name 10.2 - does have new functionality: the new .Mac; iSync, iCal, etc: If you want iSync (a free add-in), you pay the $129.00; if you don't, save your money and wait for 10.3 or 10.4 or until the value proposition "floats your boat", which may be OS XI (2004 is a solid bet as far as I'm concerned).
10.1.5 is perfectly OK as an OS and will still be OK as an OS for another 18 months.
And if you don't think MS charges for upgrades, what is the 31/07 deadline for Upgrade Advantage all about then?
As for free e-mail - I'm looking at Apple's web site and cannot find any reference to the company becoming a registered charity. Free e-mail was an abberation of the late nineties - a fact which is validated by the HotMail, Yahoo et al moving to commercial models.
Why should Apple pay money to provide expensive capital equipment, comms links, and management just so some cheapskates can exchange unfunny jokes with their mates?
Should their be .Mac and .Mac Pro is another issue? I think their should be Mail and iCal support for $60, whilst $99 buys you everything else.
Just my $0.02.
<strong>System recovery is indeed part of XP Home.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My mistake, yeah it's on the CD, but not installed by default.
[quote]<strong>Also my sister has 4 users on her machine and they switch seamlessly and are easily maintained.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sure it works, but the support for administration of the accounts is severely lacking, as is the ability to restrict parts of the system in anything other than a general way.
Oh yeah, XP Home also does not support dual displays from a single adapter. (It can be done I've heard, just not elegantly or easily.)
I'm not saying XP is complete crap (other than the UI of course), I'm just saying that there are a lot of differences between the two versions, differences that can show up at inopportune times, even for basic home users.
[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Fluffy ]</p>
but it does suck for everyone else.
you can do what i used to do when i couldn't afford software... find friends and split the cost. yeah, it's not very legal, but it's MORE legal than other methods (and you can still get some support, manuals, upgrades, etc.)
just a thought. and, uh, you didn't hear this from me.
Well, this is a Mac forum so take your Wintel rear out of here if you can't stand it.
"...Now they are using the X machine, we shall make them pay dearly, the fools, and we'll be filthy rich I tell you! AAAAHHHAAAAAAAAAAA"