But Apple can't sell 5s for $350 and make any decent profit. That's what Android does. Sell alot of cheap product with no profit.
Are you sure, the tooling is paid off, and the components must be dirt cheap by now.
Anyway this is the second time analysts say this. Ming-Chi-Kuo said that a couple of weeks back, and he give even a lower price, $225. I am with you on this to a certain point. I don't think Apple will keep the 5s in developed markets, but they will keep it in emerging markets where they can price it as a more affordable for the general income level of those countries, but still be a cut above from the general smartphone market in those places. And India has been the market in which they have tested these tactic in late 2015. There it will not be $225 or $350 for that matter, in those countries prices are much higher than in developed markets, not to say relative to the income of the middle clases there, so still expensive enough to justified its premium status there.
What makes you think the components are dirt cheap? Just because it's older doesn't mean the processor is any cheaper to fabricate, especially in lower quantities. Labor certainly isn't cheaper. Aluminum is still aluminum, glass is still glass, the camera will not get cheaper because Apple is really the only customer for that specific footprint. Again, it may even get more expensive as quantities go down. It is highly unlikely that they could pull enough cost out to profitably sell for $350. Tooling was paid for 5 minutes after launch. Either way, having no tooling amortization may help the company's bottom line, but has no impact on the bill of materials and therefore no impact on the profit margin of that model.
But Apple can't sell 5s for $350 and make any decent profit. That's what Android does. Sell alot of cheap product with no profit.
Are you sure, the tooling is paid off, and the components must be dirt cheap by now.
Anyway this is the second time analysts say this. Ming-Chi-Kuo said that a couple of weeks back, and he give even a lower price, $225. I am with you on this to a certain point. I don't think Apple will keep the 5s in developed markets, but they will keep it in emerging markets where they can price it as a more affordable for the general income level of those countries, but still be a cut above from the general smartphone market in those places. And India has been the market in which they have tested these tactic in late 2015. There it will not be $225 or $350 for that matter, in those countries prices are much higher than in developed markets, not to say relative to the income of the middle clases there, so still expensive enough to justified its premium status there.
First, nobody knows anything. There are probably people inside Apple who don't know.
So you can discount any such ridiculous claim immediately.
Second, there's no reason Apple can't sell the 5s for less and still make a handsome margin. The question is, what does it get them?
We know for a fact that the older some hardware gets, the less in demand it is, and therefore the cost of scale savings is diminished. That's what ultimately killed the iPod Classic. At a certain point, the 5s may actually be more expensive to manufacture than when it was new. And the 5s still needs all of the same manufacturing as before. What happens is that at a certain point, the development and marketing costs have been amortized across the profits, and Apple enters a phase of pure profits. So the margins don't actually have to be as high, to realize a similar profit from each handset. In that respect the 5s could easily be sold for less -- especially if Apple can sell it on an installment plan which allows them to add Apple Care + to the phone, which is actually a pretty significant profit center. As are all of Apple's other services, like iCloud. So the reality of the situation is, bringing more customers into the fold more than offset the reduced profits on a handset that is likely almost 100% profit at this point having recouped all other costs associated with it.
I would still not expect Apple to sell ANY phone in a developed market without Pay from now on. That isn't such an issue in an emerging market where Pay isn't a real consideration yet, where the 5s still has a robust life despite its limitations.
Profit margins! iPods are not iPhones which are Apple bread and butter. Apple can sell iPod at low margin because of the low volume. The BOM cost is not that much different between 5S and 6S...I would say $50 at most. So, selling 5S at almost 1/2 price of 6S is more than just stupid ...financially!
Apple doesn't think that way with such a margin fetishism. Their concern is (or should be) rather "how many other Apple products can we sell to that individual alongside that iPhone model".
I am stopping those who intend to buy 6 series, telling them "wait, 5s will be halved and you'll be able to buy both the 5s and the new iPad Pro or an Air 2 alongside". Who cares Apple Pay?. it is not a must. iPad is a must.
Wrong! Apple is all about profits. Otherwise, they could have made $300 phones years ago and took market shares before any android could. They didn't do that with Mac, they won't do that with iPhone. You have a perfect thinking and mentality of Android fans: buy cheap phone! Want a bet on this phone? I would say this new 4" iPhone will be priced above $500 and mostly certain at $549. Apple will sell millions of these to those who don't want big phone, but still want latest specs. You want a cheap 5S at $350 or less? eBay.
Apple doesn't think that way with such a margin fetishism. Their concern is (or should be) rather "how many other Apple products can we sell to that individual alongside that iPhone model".
I am stopping those who intend to buy 6 series, telling them "wait, 5s will be halved and you'll be able to buy both the 5s and the new iPad Pro or an Air 2 alongside". Who cares Apple Pay?. it is not a must. iPad is a must.
Wrong! Apple is all about profits. Otherwise, they could have made $300 phones years ago and took market shares before any android could. They didn't do that with Mac, they won't do that with iPhone. You have a perfect thinking and mentality of Android fans: buy cheap phone! Want a bet on this phone? I would say this new 4" iPhone will be priced above $500 and mostly certain at $549. Apple will sell millions of these to those who don't want big phone, but still want latest specs. You want a cheap 5S at $350 or less? eBay.
Phone phone phone... think again who has the mentality of android fans We're talking of Apple...
Wanna phone talk? here it is:
6 series was a failure and Apple pushed it to the niche category. iPhone SE is the mainstream phone, (6 and) 7 series will be most probably renamed as iPhone Pro or something, a transitional niche category between low-end iPhone and high-end iPad...
haha… "failure" well no, but they certainly left a segment of the market behind
All those news and headlines, plateaus, declines, peak iPhone and alike... Those were 6 series, not 5s. 5s sold well, still sells and yet still sells... Anyway, since iPhone SE is coming, it doesn't matter anymore...
Are you sure, the tooling is paid off, and the components must be dirt cheap by now.
Anyway this is the second time analysts say this. Ming-Chi-Kuo said that a couple of weeks back, and he give even a lower price, $225. I am with you on this to a certain point. I don't think Apple will keep the 5s in developed markets, but they will keep it in emerging markets where they can price it as a more affordable for the general income level of those countries, but still be a cut above from the general smartphone market in those places. And India has been the market in which they have tested these tactic in late 2015. There it will not be $225 or $350 for that matter, in those countries prices are much higher than in developed markets, not to say relative to the income of the middle clases there, so still expensive enough to justified its premium status there.
First, nobody knows anything. There are probably people inside Apple who don't know.
So you can discount any such ridiculous claim immediately.
Second, there's no reason Apple can't sell the 5s for less and still make a handsome margin. The question is, what does it get them?
We know for a fact that the older some hardware gets, the less in demand it is, and therefore the cost of scale savings is diminished. That's what ultimately killed the iPod Classic. At a certain point, the 5s may actually be more expensive to manufacture than when it was new. And the 5s still needs all of the same manufacturing as before. What happens is that at a certain point, the development and marketing costs have been amortized across the profits, and Apple enters a phase of pure profits. So the margins don't actually have to be as high, to realize a similar profit from each handset. In that respect the 5s could easily be sold for less -- especially if Apple can sell it on an installment plan which allows them to add Apple Care + to the phone, which is actually a pretty significant profit center. As are all of Apple's other services, like iCloud. So the reality of the situation is, bringing more customers into the fold more than offset the reduced profits on a handset that is likely almost 100% profit at this point having recouped all other costs associated with it.
I would still not expect Apple to sell ANY phone in a developed market without Pay from now on. That isn't such an issue in an emerging market where Pay isn't a real consideration yet, where the 5s still has a robust life despite its limitations.
Please, help me, are you calling ridiculous something I have said or Ming-Chi-Kuo price point? I only said that what sog claimed, that at $350 Apple can't sell the 5s because only crap can't be sold is not true. Any probe I'm wrong in this, because without taxes here the 5s is right now selling for more or less that. And I'm not including the reseller profit margin, in that case Apple gets no more than $300 for it. So it can be done. Total price is €409 including 21% VAT. You showed to be clever, made your math and get the result.
And for the rest of your posts can you tell me what is your disagreement, Maybe the problem is that I don't express myself in your language as well as you, but anyway I don't have said anything much different than you, the device is cheaper to made so cheaper to sell, No? And that is helpful in emerging markets, right? You know that there are import taxes, less developed sales network and lower median incomes so the device, even at that lower prices is still an expensive phone in relative terms, OK? Yes I know, in China Apple sells a truckload of devices, But I'm sure that you know that emerging economies are not only China, right? Latin America for instance,
And please, don't try to tell me that components right now are more expensive, the camera, the processor must be much cheaper, is a simple math, if they can put newer components in the iPod Touch for the same price, why they don't do the same with the iPhone 5s? If they fit in the iPod, they fit in the iPhone, sell it as the 5se, and you regain your volume advantage in component pricing. If they don't do it, is because is still cheaper to do that way.
Sorry if I misunderstand your reply or I have been rude in some place, no intentional.
Apple doesn't think that way with such a margin fetishism. Their concern is (or should be) rather "how many other Apple products can we sell to that individual alongside that iPhone model".
I am stopping those who intend to buy 6 series, telling them "wait, 5s will be halved and you'll be able to buy both the 5s and the new iPad Pro or an Air 2 alongside". Who cares Apple Pay?. it is not a must. iPad is a must.
Wrong! Apple is all about profits. Otherwise, they could have made $300 phones years ago and took market shares before any android could. They didn't do that with Mac, they won't do that with iPhone. You have a perfect thinking and mentality of Android fans: buy cheap phone! Want a bet on this phone? I would say this new 4" iPhone will be priced above $500 and mostly certain at $549. Apple will sell millions of these to those who don't want big phone, but still want latest specs. You want a cheap 5S at $350 or less? eBay.
Apple was selling the iPhone 4 in India (in fact it relaunched the iPhone 4 specifically for India) from early 2014 until last year. That's what is probably going to happen now with the 5S. It also rubbishes your points about their disregard for market share.
Are you sure, the tooling is paid off, and the components must be dirt cheap by now.
Anyway this is the second time analysts say this. Ming-Chi-Kuo said that a couple of weeks back, and he give even a lower price, $225. I am with you on this to a certain point. I don't think Apple will keep the 5s in developed markets, but they will keep it in emerging markets where they can price it as a more affordable for the general income level of those countries, but still be a cut above from the general smartphone market in those places. And India has been the market in which they have tested these tactic in late 2015. There it will not be $225 or $350 for that matter, in those countries prices are much higher than in developed markets, not to say relative to the income of the middle clases there, so still expensive enough to justified its premium status there.
What makes you think the components are dirt cheap? Just because it's older doesn't mean the processor is any cheaper to fabricate, especially in lower quantities. Labor certainly isn't cheaper. Aluminum is still aluminum, glass is still glass, the camera will not get cheaper because Apple is really the only customer for that specific footprint. Again, it may even get more expensive as quantities go down. It is highly unlikely that they could pull enough cost out to profitably sell for $350. Tooling was paid for 5 minutes after launch. Either way, having no tooling amortization may help the company's bottom line, but has no impact on the bill of materials and therefore no impact on the profit margin of that model.
Yes, because its older the processor is cheaper to built, the tooling in Samsung is amortized so the cost of tooling don't have to be included, so cheaper. If it wasn't why not put an A8 inside as in the iPod Touch, it fits in both. Aluminium is aluminium, right, but the tooling to made the chassis is the same, and the learning curve to manufacture that component is long ago mastered so the scrapped material is lowered to a minimum helping reduce the aluminium quantity required for each device, and the tooling amortized too, cheaper, again. Glass is glass, yes, but again, the tooling written off the R & D for the specific design too, cheaper again, and the learning curve to master the manufacturing process also at its best, less scrapped material for every device produced too. And in this case, the basic design is shared with the iPod Touch and the new SE, so the volume is there too. In the camera front, Any insider source that gives you the information about the camera module in Sony? Because what you said that Apple is the only customer is a guess at best. Anyway, the tooling to make it and the R & D of the module also written off by Sony, and given that Apple is a very good customer I seriously doubt Sony charges more than originally for a module that maybe is simply in stock and is not produced anymore or only from time to time to keep inventory levels, and even if its still in production also learning curve of the manufacturing process at its best, so less material scrapped for every module made, so yes, again cheaper. Yes they can get a good margin at $350 because right now they are selling them to their reseller at that price, if not for less. Here the price of the 5s is €409 including reseller margin and the 21% tax, made your math and you will see how close is to that magical $350 is. Even more, the iPod Touch and the 5s use very similar components, only the Touch ID module, shared with the 6, the iPad Air 2 and the iPad Mini 4, so is volume there too. And the cellular module must be added, so the bill of materials must be a little bit more. Apple can sell an iPod Touch for $199 with a profit, do you really think that the cellular module and the touch ID one add more than $100 to the bill?
And seriously you are telling me that a product that its only costs is components and labor is not cheaper to made that one that must include R & D and tooling costs, not to say lower yields on the more modern components, and a manufacturing learning curve still in process of getting at its best. Seriously?
Please, help me, are you calling ridiculous something I have said or Ming-Chi-Kuo price point? I only said that what sog claimed, that at $350 Apple can't sell the 5s because only crap can't be sold is not true. Any probe I'm wrong in this, because without taxes here the 5s is right now selling for more or less that. And I'm not including the reseller profit margin, in that case Apple gets no more than $300 for it. So it can be done. Total price is €409 including 21% VAT. You showed to be clever, made your math and get the result.
And for the rest of your posts can you tell me what is your disagreement, Maybe the problem is that I don't express myself in your language as well as you, but anyway I don't have said anything much different than you, the device is cheaper to made so cheaper to sell, No? And that is helpful in emerging markets, right? You know that there are import taxes, less developed sales network and lower median incomes so the device, even at that lower prices is still an expensive phone in relative terms, OK? Yes I know, in China Apple sells a truckload of devices, But I'm sure that you know that emerging economies are not only China, right? Latin America for instance,
And please, don't try to tell me that components right now are more expensive, the camera, the processor must be much cheaper, is a simple math, if they can put newer components in the iPod Touch for the same price, why they don't do the same with the iPhone 5s? If they fit in the iPod, they fit in the iPhone, sell it as the 5se, and you regain your volume advantage in component pricing. If they don't do it, is because is still cheaper to do that way.
I'm agreeing with you. Except that older components are cheaper.
The reason the discontinued the iPod Classic was because the cost of the obsolete drive was more than they were making on the phone since it was selling so few units.
Nobody will pay a premium for the iPhone 5s. The phones are not in great demand therefore, there is no volume discount on antiquated parts, which other manufacturers are no longer using at the same level as they were before, therefore the manufacturer has to charge more for them because they can't make up the difference in volume.
At some point Apple's formula for reducing the cost of the 5s, what they hope to make on it, and what it costs to make, converge. And just like the iPod classic it's cheaper to discontinue then to continue to make it, especially when there is a newer device on the market to take it's place, costs less, and allows them to charge more. It's simple economics.
In india iPhone 5s 16gb brand new is already being sold by reputed 3rd parties like Amazon for $285 ( INR 19515 ) and the 32 gb model is already being sold for $350 inclusive of all taxes without any contract hence the discussion whether the price is feasible for Apple is a moot point at this juncture.
No reason to think that 5s is reserved for the emerging markets. 5S was maintained because it was allowing people to buy an iPad alongside. 6 series was such a beast that you couldn't do that.
Please, help me, are you calling ridiculous something I have said or Ming-Chi-Kuo price point? I only said that what sog claimed, that at $350 Apple can't sell the 5s because only crap can't be sold is not true. Any probe I'm wrong in this, because without taxes here the 5s is right now selling for more or less that. And I'm not including the reseller profit margin, in that case Apple gets no more than $300 for it. So it can be done. Total price is €409 including 21% VAT. You showed to be clever, made your math and get the result.
And for the rest of your posts can you tell me what is your disagreement, Maybe the problem is that I don't express myself in your language as well as you, but anyway I don't have said anything much different than you, the device is cheaper to made so cheaper to sell, No? And that is helpful in emerging markets, right? You know that there are import taxes, less developed sales network and lower median incomes so the device, even at that lower prices is still an expensive phone in relative terms, OK? Yes I know, in China Apple sells a truckload of devices, But I'm sure that you know that emerging economies are not only China, right? Latin America for instance,
And please, don't try to tell me that components right now are more expensive, the camera, the processor must be much cheaper, is a simple math, if they can put newer components in the iPod Touch for the same price, why they don't do the same with the iPhone 5s? If they fit in the iPod, they fit in the iPhone, sell it as the 5se, and you regain your volume advantage in component pricing. If they don't do it, is because is still cheaper to do that way.
I'm agreeing with you. Except that older components are cheaper.
The reason the discontinued the iPod Classic was because the cost of the obsolete drive was more than they were making on the phone since it was selling so few units.
Nobody will pay a premium for the iPhone 5s. The phones are not in great demand therefore, there is no volume discount on antiquated parts, which other manufacturers are no longer using at the same level as they were before, therefore the manufacturer has to charge more for them because they can't make up the difference in volume.
At some point Apple's formula for reducing the cost of the 5s, what they hope to make on it, and what it costs to make, converge. And just like the iPod classic it's cheaper to discontinue then to continue to make it, especially when there is a newer device on the market to take it's place, costs less, and allows them to charge more. It's simple economics.
You got a much recent example in the "heart transplant" of the iPod Touch, they change to the A8 probably because of this. SO if the A7 where more expensive to do, don't you think that would have done the same?
And being able to sell the iPod Touch, essentially a 5s without a cellular module and Touch ID for $199 for a profit you don't think they probably can sell the 5s for 250-350 for a profit too.
Anyway I see for your reply that we mostly agree only that we are seeing from different angles. If there's not a business case, is not a product, agreed.
Sorry if in my previous reply got rude, purely accidental, not intentional.
Apple stock was cut in a few years ago because of margin fears by analysts. Now they are hoping for a $350.00 phone? As soon as Apple does that you will get a parade of folks on CNBC saying why buy the IP7 for 800 when the 350 special performs almost the same. Similar to them finding people in their 20's with no interest in wearing a watch (during the launch of Apple Watch)
No reason to think that 5s is reserved for the emerging markets. 5S was maintained because it was allowing people to buy an iPad alongside. 6 series was such a beast that you couldn't do that.
The reason is that it's not in Apple's best interest to sell a phone incapable of Pay, in developed markets, especially in the US, where analysts are predicting 2016 to be a significant year for Pay adoption.
Wrong! Apple is all about profits. Otherwise, they could have made $300 phones years ago and took market shares before any android could. They didn't do that with Mac, they won't do that with iPhone. You have a perfect thinking and mentality of Android fans: buy cheap phone! Want a bet on this phone? I would say this new 4" iPhone will be priced above $500 and mostly certain at $549. Apple will sell millions of these to those who don't want big phone, but still want latest specs. You want a cheap 5S at $350 or less? eBay.
Phone phone phone... think again who has the mentality of android fans We're talking of Apple...
Wanna phone talk? here it is:
6 series was a failure and Apple pushed it to the niche category. iPhone SE is the mainstream phone, (6 and) 7 series will be most probably renamed as iPhone Pro or something, a transitional niche category between low-end iPhone and high-end iPad...
iPhone 6 Failure? Illustrate your claim with data or you're not different from a fucking troll.
Wrong! Apple is all about profits. Otherwise, they could have made $300 phones years ago and took market shares before any android could. They didn't do that with Mac, they won't do that with iPhone. You have a perfect thinking and mentality of Android fans: buy cheap phone! Want a bet on this phone? I would say this new 4" iPhone will be priced above $500 and mostly certain at $549. Apple will sell millions of these to those who don't want big phone, but still want latest specs. You want a cheap 5S at $350 or less? eBay.
Apple was selling the iPhone 4 in India (in fact it relaunched the iPhone 4 specifically for India) from early 2014 until last year. That's what is probably going to happen now with the 5S. It also rubbishes your points about their disregard for market share.
India is a special case where Apple want to penetrate the market there since their income per capita is 1/3 vs China. You won't see $350 5S anywhere.
I think people need to realize Apple are ALREADY selling cheap iPhone 5S @ ~$300 to ~$400 through different channels, depending on which market you are in. Its Official prices from Apple Store isn't as cheap, I think that is more to maintain the brand value.
People need to start looking at Apple from a Global Company perceptive. It is not a US company only, and you cant take the iPhone price in US as gospel that is sold everywhere. Especially in places like BRIC.
The iPhone 5S, at this point will have a BOM cost around $100. So people continue to say Apple cant make enough profits with iPhone selling at $350 need to to rethink. I am not saying they will price it at $350, it is merely from a profit stand point it is enough for Apple to do so. *Xiaomi is selling a better spec, Qualcomm SoC, larger screen, metallic Red Mi Phone for roughly $108. Xaiomi makes less then 10% profits, Apple has Touch ID, so the total cost of all should be around the same.
I expect the iPhone to be using a newer build of A9 SoC on TSMC ( 16nm FFC ), with 2nd Gen Touch ID. It provides top end security while being fast to activate for Apple Pay. A better 4G Baseband ( I am hoping it is from Intel ), and continue to sell at $450. While being the lowest price point of iPhone, it will be used to push the usage of 4G and Apple Pay.
Phone phone phone... think again who has the mentality of android fans We're talking of Apple...
Wanna phone talk? here it is:
6 series was a failure and Apple pushed it to the niche category. iPhone SE is the mainstream phone, (6 and) 7 series will be most probably renamed as iPhone Pro or something, a transitional niche category between low-end iPhone and high-end iPad...
iPhone 6 Failure? Illustrate your claim with data or you're not different from a fucking troll.
Uttered by the boss: 60% of iPhone users didn't upgrade to 6 series...That is a failure. 6 series didn't sell to Apple's very own user base.
Selling gigantic phablets to chinese peasants is not success. Those first time buyers of the third world as well as Android switchers are as dry as a bone in the desert. Apple cannot sell anything more to them. Don't think in terms of individual products, we are not talking about an Android phone maker, we are talking of Apple. Apple markets and sells an ecosystem, not individual products. You may not be trolling, your only contact with the Apple ecosystem may be your iPhone so I don't blame you.
At say $350 price, iphone 5S with many cellular bands support makes it unbeatable good small world phone. And say at $450, iphone SE is totally great small world phone with ApplePay VoLTE/VoWiFi, more RAM,better camera, etc.I will upgrade 3 out of 5 older iphones to SE. It's no brainer for me or anyone who likes smaller iphone.
Comments
So you can discount any such ridiculous claim immediately.
Second, there's no reason Apple can't sell the 5s for less and still make a handsome margin. The question is, what does it get them?
We know for a fact that the older some hardware gets, the less in demand it is, and therefore the cost of scale savings is diminished. That's what ultimately killed the iPod Classic. At a certain point, the 5s may actually be more expensive to manufacture than when it was new. And the 5s still needs all of the same manufacturing as before. What happens is that at a certain point, the development and marketing costs have been amortized across the profits, and Apple enters a phase of pure profits. So the margins don't actually have to be as high, to realize a similar profit from each handset. In that respect the 5s could easily be sold for less -- especially if Apple can sell it on an installment plan which allows them to add Apple Care + to the phone, which is actually a pretty significant profit center. As are all of Apple's other services, like iCloud. So the reality of the situation is, bringing more customers into the fold more than offset the reduced profits on a handset that is likely almost 100% profit at this point having recouped all other costs associated with it.
I would still not expect Apple to sell ANY phone in a developed market without Pay from now on. That isn't such an issue in an emerging market where Pay isn't a real consideration yet, where the 5s still has a robust life despite its limitations.
You have a perfect thinking and mentality of Android fans: buy cheap phone! Want a bet on this phone? I would say this new 4" iPhone will be priced above $500 and mostly certain at $549. Apple will sell millions of these to those who don't want big phone, but still want latest specs.
You want a cheap 5S at $350 or less? eBay.
Wanna phone talk? here it is:
6 series was a failure and Apple pushed it to the niche category. iPhone SE is the mainstream phone, (6 and) 7 series will be most probably renamed as iPhone Pro or something, a transitional niche category between low-end iPhone and high-end iPad...
And for the rest of your posts can you tell me what is your disagreement, Maybe the problem is that I don't express myself in your language as well as you, but anyway I don't have said anything much different than you, the device is cheaper to made so cheaper to sell, No? And that is helpful in emerging markets, right? You know that there are import taxes, less developed sales network and lower median incomes so the device, even at that lower prices is still an expensive phone in relative terms, OK? Yes I know, in China Apple sells a truckload of devices, But I'm sure that you know that emerging economies are not only China, right? Latin America for instance,
And please, don't try to tell me that components right now are more expensive, the camera, the processor must be much cheaper, is a simple math, if they can put newer components in the iPod Touch for the same price, why they don't do the same with the iPhone 5s? If they fit in the iPod, they fit in the iPhone, sell it as the 5se, and you regain your volume advantage in component pricing. If they don't do it, is because is still cheaper to do that way.
Sorry if I misunderstand your reply or I have been rude in some place, no intentional.
Yes, because its older the processor is cheaper to built, the tooling in Samsung is amortized so the cost of tooling don't have to be included, so cheaper. If it wasn't why not put an A8 inside as in the iPod Touch, it fits in both. Aluminium is aluminium, right, but the tooling to made the chassis is the same, and the learning curve to manufacture that component is long ago mastered so the scrapped material is lowered to a minimum helping reduce the aluminium quantity required for each device, and the tooling amortized too, cheaper, again. Glass is glass, yes, but again, the tooling written off the R & D for the specific design too, cheaper again, and the learning curve to master the manufacturing process also at its best, less scrapped material for every device produced too. And in this case, the basic design is shared with the iPod Touch and the new SE, so the volume is there too. In the camera front, Any insider source that gives you the information about the camera module in Sony? Because what you said that Apple is the only customer is a guess at best. Anyway, the tooling to make it and the R & D of the module also written off by Sony, and given that Apple is a very good customer I seriously doubt Sony charges more than originally for a module that maybe is simply in stock and is not produced anymore or only from time to time to keep inventory levels, and even if its still in production also learning curve of the manufacturing process at its best, so less material scrapped for every module made, so yes, again cheaper. Yes they can get a good margin at $350 because right now they are selling them to their reseller at that price, if not for less. Here the price of the 5s is €409 including reseller margin and the 21% tax, made your math and you will see how close is to that magical $350 is. Even more, the iPod Touch and the 5s use very similar components, only the Touch ID module, shared with the 6, the iPad Air 2 and the iPad Mini 4, so is volume there too. And the cellular module must be added, so the bill of materials must be a little bit more. Apple can sell an iPod Touch for $199 with a profit, do you really think that the cellular module and the touch ID one add more than $100 to the bill?
And seriously you are telling me that a product that its only costs is components and labor is not cheaper to made that one that must include R & D and tooling costs, not to say lower yields on the more modern components, and a manufacturing learning curve still in process of getting at its best. Seriously?
The reason the discontinued the iPod Classic was because the cost of the obsolete drive was more than they were making on the phone since it was selling so few units.
Nobody will pay a premium for the iPhone 5s. The phones are not in great demand therefore, there is no volume discount on antiquated parts, which other manufacturers are no longer using at the same level as they were before, therefore the manufacturer has to charge more for them because they can't make up the difference in volume.
At some point Apple's formula for reducing the cost of the 5s, what they hope to make on it, and what it costs to make, converge. And just like the iPod classic it's cheaper to discontinue then to continue to make it, especially when there is a newer device on the market to take it's place, costs less, and allows them to charge more. It's simple economics.
And being able to sell the iPod Touch, essentially a 5s without a cellular module and Touch ID for $199 for a profit you don't think they probably can sell the 5s for 250-350 for a profit too.
Anyway I see for your reply that we mostly agree only that we are seeing from different angles. If there's not a business case, is not a product, agreed.
Sorry if in my previous reply got rude, purely accidental, not intentional.
India is a special case where Apple want to penetrate the market there since their income per capita is 1/3 vs China. You won't see $350 5S anywhere.
People need to start looking at Apple from a Global Company perceptive. It is not a US company only, and you cant take the iPhone price in US as gospel that is sold everywhere. Especially in places like BRIC.
The iPhone 5S, at this point will have a BOM cost around $100. So people continue to say Apple cant make enough profits with iPhone selling at $350 need to to rethink. I am not saying they will price it at $350, it is merely from a profit stand point it is enough for Apple to do so.
*Xiaomi is selling a better spec, Qualcomm SoC, larger screen, metallic Red Mi Phone for roughly $108. Xaiomi makes less then 10% profits, Apple has Touch ID, so the total cost of all should be around the same.
I expect the iPhone to be using a newer build of A9 SoC on TSMC ( 16nm FFC ), with 2nd Gen Touch ID. It provides top end security while being fast to activate for Apple Pay. A better 4G Baseband ( I am hoping it is from Intel ), and continue to sell at $450. While being the lowest price point of iPhone, it will be used to push the usage of 4G and Apple Pay.
Selling gigantic phablets to chinese peasants is not success. Those first time buyers of the third world as well as Android switchers are as dry as a bone in the desert. Apple cannot sell anything more to them. Don't think in terms of individual products, we are not talking about an Android phone maker, we are talking of Apple. Apple markets and sells an ecosystem, not individual products. You may not be trolling, your only contact with the Apple ecosystem may be your iPhone so I don't blame you.