Justice Department considers wiretapping fight with WhatsApp amid Apple-FBI row

2»

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 35
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    Here is the thing I love about this whole discussion. Today and for a long time our Military has used various means to protect their communications from everyone. There are laws on the books which makes it illegal for anymore to decrypt communications which you were not the party to. There is also Laws on the books which says you are allow to listen to any communications which are broadcast over the air which are not encrypted. Therefore you were allows to listen to police communications on two ways radios until they decide to move to encrypted communications. Today Police no long use any communications which you can legally listen in on. So they police do not want you knowing what they are doing but they want to know what you are doing.
    radarthekaticoco3
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 22 of 35
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    adrayven said:

    People will just use non-us based chat apps anyway. As they get banned, they will just move to another app. This is a useless exercise in futility. 
    Apps using their own encryption for their own data is one thing but device wide encryption is much better because everything is encrypted including all the built-in apps... everything, all at once. They can be encrypted simply by the device passcode and if Apple is required to weaken their systemwide encryption, the courts/congress are most likely not going to allow them to turn around and put strong encryption on the individual apps. We need those individual apps. Third party apps can't really replace the apps included in the OS. That would be very inconvenient.
    edited March 2016
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 23 of 35
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    Whatsapp may need to be moved outside the U.S. so that they would not need to answer to any request by U.S. law enforcement. This means US companies will need to rely on foreign companies to maintain their security since foreign companies do not need to comply with any US demand for a back door. How ironic.
    Given Brazil's action I'm thinking Whatsapp etc. will need to set up on the moon. 
    edited March 2016
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 24 of 35
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,932moderator
    Hmm, some safe manufacturer should create a safe that destroys its contents if tampered with.  I imagine it would be possible to do so very effectively, so that no matter what approach is taken to penetrate the safe, I would be detected and trigger the content destruction mechanism.  Would law enforcement then demand the safe manufacturer devise some means to enter the safe that they didn't leave open to themselves during its design?

    Apple should break out from its iOS builds all aspects of iPhone access security, such that any updates to that portion of the OS kernel need to be installed as a separate update to the main OS updates.  Then, for the access security-related updates, always require the passcode be entered on the phone in order to accept an update.  This way, Apple could continue to push normal iOS updates without inconveniencing users, but require the user to be in the loop on any update that modifies device access security.  If the U.S., via congress, outlaws the sale of devices that don't allow access security updates without a passcode being entered on the device, Apple could sell iPhones and iPads here in the U.S. with that weakness in the access security module, then direct customers to a patch that is downloaded from an off-shore subsidiary.  Or some such work-around to bring them up to the more secure version.  

      
    edited March 2016
    ration al
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 25 of 35
    bwinskibwinski Posts: 164member
    HA !!! MORE distraction from the Guv'ment... The NSA and the FBI along with the Bush secret FISA COURT HAVE ALREADY DECIDED AND RULED in their favor... So, journos, this atory is MOOT !!

    Check it.....

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/secret-court-approves-classified-rule-change-on-how-fbi-can-use-nsa-data/

    !???????!

     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 26 of 35
    SpamSandwichspamsandwich Posts: 33,407member
    jfc1138 said:
    Whatsapp may need to be moved outside the U.S. so that they would not need to answer to any request by U.S. law enforcement. This means US companies will need to rely on foreign companies to maintain their security since foreign companies do not need to comply with any US demand for a back door. How ironic.
    Given Brazil's action I'm thinking Whatsapp etc. will need to set up on the moon. 
    Space. Think about it. Elon Musk is planning to create an alternate space-based Internet. What prevents companies from transferring their digital assets and IP to the area just above the Earth, which has no claim to any nations?
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 27 of 35
    SpamSandwichspamsandwich Posts: 33,407member

    bwinski said:
    HA !!! MORE distraction from the Guv'ment... The NSA and the FBI along with the Bush secret FISA COURT HAVE ALREADY DECIDED AND RULED in their favor... So, journos, this atory is MOOT !!

    Check it.....

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/secret-court-approves-classified-rule-change-on-how-fbi-can-use-nsa-data/

    !???????!

    The constitutionality of such laws or rules would still be at issue.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 28 of 35
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    ""you're getting useless data," former federal prosecutor Joseph DeMarco told the paper, referring to intercepting encrypted communications"

    Hahaha hahaha haha .... hahahaha haha.
    Incredible, how stupid can you be, this really is insane.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 29 of 35
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    volcan said:
    adrayven said:

    People will just use non-us based chat apps anyway. As they get banned, they will just move to another app. This is a useless exercise in futility. 
    Apps using their own encryption for their own data is one thing but device wide encryption is much better because everything is encrypted including all the built-in apps... everything, all at once. They can be encrypted simply by the device passcode and if Apple is required to weaken their systemwide encryption, the courts/congress are most likely not going to allow them to turn around and put strong encryption on the individual apps. We need those individual apps. Third party apps can't really replace the apps included in the OS. That would be very inconvenient.
    Of course they can (replace the apps included), but the real question is is the FBI, NSA, (all other 3 four or etc. letter agencies) already listening via an (i)OS backdoor.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 30 of 35
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,725member
    Whatsapp may need to be moved outside the U.S. so that they would not need to answer to any request by U.S. law enforcement. This means US companies will need to rely on foreign companies to maintain their security since foreign companies do not need to comply with any US demand for a back door. How ironic.
    http://venturebeat.com/2016/03/06/facebook-exec-jailed-over-encrypted-whatsapp-data-says-brazils-police-treated-him-with-respect/

    "Diego Dzodan, a Facebook vice president based in São Paulo, was arrested on Tuesday due to a dispute over (Brazilian) law enforcement demands for data from the company’s encrypted WhatsApp messaging service for use in a secretive drug trafficking investigation.

    He was released on Wednesday after an appeals judge overturned a court order to arrest him.

    “I was treated with a lot of respect,” Dzodan said at a Saturday conference on Latin American business trends organized by students at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Sloan School of Management.

    He said Facebook has no access to data that travels over the its secure WhatsApp messaging service, making compliance with the request from Brazilian officials impossible.

    “The way that information is encrypted from one cell phone to another, there is no information stored that could be handed over to authorities,” he said.

    His remarks came during a Q&A session after a half-hour talk on Facebook’s approach to innovation. He also said his detention would not affect the Silicon Valley company’s plans for the Brazilian market."

    edited March 2016
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 31 of 35
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,725member
    bwinski said:
    HA !!! MORE distraction from the Guv'ment... The NSA and the FBI along with the Bush secret FISA COURT HAVE ALREADY DECIDED AND RULED in their favor... So, journos, this atory is MOOT !!

    Check it.....

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/secret-court-approves-classified-rule-change-on-how-fbi-can-use-nsa-data/

    !???????!

    Bush? Hasn't the US President for the past roughly 8 years been named Obama? 
    icoco3SpamSandwich
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 32 of 35
    spacekidspacekid Posts: 184member
    icoco3 said:
    spacekid said:
    Except the Constitution doesn't protect everybody all of the time:
    4th Amendment
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Please show me where I must assist them?  Lets not forget the 5th amendment.
    Look at the EPA and safety requirements that forbid car manufacturers from selling cars that don't meet requirements.

    The laws control that and that is what Apple is arguing and may win that battle. Congress is holding hearings and may very well write laws that force Apple and Google to implement ways to support wiretaps and other methods of investigations.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 33 of 35
    spacekidspacekid Posts: 184member
    non_sense said:
    This is idiotic. The government has no "right" to wiretapping. The have the right to tap if they can after due process. Perhaps the public needs a "back door" to tap the government phones, after all the FOI gives us access to all but "classified" information. Why can't I classify my information too. Perhaps it's time to make explicit the right to privacy in the form of a constitutional amendment instead of relying on the 4th and 14th amendments since the politicians don't seem to get it.
    The 4th amendment gives the government that right provided probable cause is shown.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 34 of 35
    SpamSandwichspamsandwich Posts: 33,407member
    spacekid said:
    non_sense said:
    This is idiotic. The government has no "right" to wiretapping. The have the right to tap if they can after due process. Perhaps the public needs a "back door" to tap the government phones, after all the FOI gives us access to all but "classified" information. Why can't I classify my information too. Perhaps it's time to make explicit the right to privacy in the form of a constitutional amendment instead of relying on the 4th and 14th amendments since the politicians don't seem to get it.
    The 4th amendment gives the government that right provided probable cause is shown.
    Individuals have rights, not government.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 35 of 35
    SpamSandwichspamsandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc. better get off their duffs, band together and fight back hard if they don't want all of their businesses destroyed by our good friends in the Federal government.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
Sign In or Register to comment.