Well whatever the FBI is doing ain't helping their case for backdoors and weaker encryption, so I am giving them the benefit of a doubt. It seems like what they are doing is bragging that they unlocked Farook's phone like Apple's security sucks or something. I am ok with whatever as long as they never ask for backdoors to encryption again, like ever.
Except this isn't the FBI bragging about it but rather an Arkansas prosecuting attorney.
Well whatever the FBI is doing ain't helping their case for backdoors and weaker encryption, so I am giving them the benefit of a doubt. It seems like what they are doing is bragging that they unlocked Farook's phone like Apple's security sucks or something. I am ok with whatever as long as they never ask for backdoors to encryption again, like ever.
Except this isn't the FBI bragging about it but rather an Arkansas prosecuting attorney.
yes, as if it's inconceivable that the fbi could have suggested they drop a press release. crazy concept, huh.
I wonder if the Freedom of Information Act can be used to pry the process out of the FBI. After all, the FBI is a government organization paid for by taxpayers and we do have a right to know about much of the things our government is doing. The judicial system has tried to force Apple to perform unconstitutional activities so why can't Apple go before a justice and have that justice demand information from the FBI? Our government isn't supposed to be a one-way street. Of course, I know the FBI will simply deem it classified and we'll never know. I'm sure Apple lawyers are working to try and figure out a legal method to get the information about the apparent vulnerability and I hope they do because every Apple product buyer does have a right to know how secure their devices are. I'm including government, enterprise, educational, and medical customers who are required by law to protect their information and if the FBI knows how to break into it, then it's not secure and they're not complying with US laws.
disclaimer: For those who say there aren't any laws think again. I spent many years writing security plans for a government contractor.
From what I read, the FBI did not get a chance to retrieve any info from the San Bernadardino phone. They spilled a glass of water on it immediately after it was unlocked.
The defendant in the case will also want to examine the method used to obtain the data. The prosecution will have to show in court that the data was not modified by the retrieval method, in order to introduce it as evidence. It's hard to believe the FBI would sacrifice a valuable security vulnerability for one criminal case.
I still want to know what the FBI found in Farook's phone (assuming that they did not lie and did unlock the phone) before they divert our attention to some drug case or murder case like they are doing here with Arkansas. All this trouble for months and we do not get to know if there was a cyber pathogen or terrorist info? It is like, don't ask don't tell, but hey look there is another case we need an iPhone unlocked. Look here. Maybe they did not unlock the SB phone and now they want us to think about some other stuff. Like we forget easily because our attention escapes us.
The defendant in the case will also want to examine the method used to obtain the data. The prosecution will have to show in court that the data was not modified by the retrieval method, in order to introduce it as evidence. It's hard to believe the FBI would sacrifice a valuable security vulnerability for one criminal case.
The only way to force the FBI's hand in this case is for major breach to affect all iPhones worldwide, and trace it back to the FBI's efforts.
Completely disagree. This is exactly how the FBI should be doing their business. Apple should continue to tighten security and the FBI should continue to find ways into phones and pass security. Cat and mouse.
The FBI trying to force Apple to write code is wrong on oh sooo many levels. The FBI learning tech and how to break it is good on so many levels.
The FBI has no business finding ways to unlock our phones. Apple does indeed have every right to know. Would you like the FBI finding ways into your iPhone, your TV, computer, wifi, security cameras etc?
BTW The "end world hunger" reference was a bad joke. I only said it because the FBI made it seem like unlocking Farook's work phone would bring world peace or something.
This brings up an interesting question for me. WHAT exactly did they "extract" from the phone?
Theyre being super vague and it could mean anything. Could just be call history and they're being passive aggressive to make Apple look inferior.
Clearly you have little understanding of what the FBI's job is (whether you like or agree with it). Their mandate is to investigate crimes and suspected criminals. So, in fact, they have every business finding ways to unlock the phones of suspected criminals. It's inconvenient that you happen to use the same phone as suspected criminals. Would you also state that the FBI has no business finding better ways to breach doors to arrest criminals or rescue hostages just because you inconveniently also have a door on the front of your house.
Yes, it's important to have a discussion about how they go about carrying out their mandated duties. But to state that they have "no business" carrying out those duties is a bit ignorant and self-serving, don't you think?
wigeon said: Would you also state that the FBI has no business finding better ways to breach doors to arrest criminals or rescue hostages just because you inconveniently also have a door on the front of your house.
Yes, because if you want an argument that isn’t disingenuous you’ll have to pretend that the FBI is calling for every single door in the country to be unlockable with a single key.
wigeon said: Would you also state that the FBI has no business finding better ways to breach doors to arrest criminals or rescue hostages just because you inconveniently also have a door on the front of your house.
Yes, because if you want an argument that isn’t disingenuous you’ll have to pretend that the FBI is calling for every single door in the country to be unlockable with a single key.
I guess I missed the press release where the FBI was calling for a vulnerable OS to be pre-installed on every iPhone sold.
If you are a suspected criminal and are being investigated, it doesn't matter if it's a door or a phone, it's the FBI's responsibility to carry out their investigation within the bounds of the laws that govern their activities (which includes obtaining the necessary warrants for any searches).
[And here is where you claim that the FBI is always investigating all of us.]
If you don't like that they could break through your door, you are welcome to build a better door (or for Apple to build a better phone). But to suggest that the FBI shouldn't ever research ways to carry out their duties is the disingenuous argument. How about we also state that they can't ever fire their weapons in training to prepare for carrying out their duties. I'm sure they'll be able to figure it out when they are faced with an armed hostage taker. And why bother researching how to investigate terrorist bombings or other forensic techniques. I'm sure they will have plenty of time figure out how to do that after the event has taken place.
Like any other profession, you train, and practice and conduct research to find ways to do your job more effectively. But, you still need to be held accountable for performing your job responsibly and ethically. No, the FBI should not have asked Apple to help in the way that they did. But that does not mean the FBI doesn't have a responsibility to prepare to carry out their duties to investigate crimes, even if that means figuring out a way to break into a phone that is used by a suspected criminal.
wigeon said: I guess I missed the press release where the FBI was calling for a vulnerable OS to be pre-installed on every iPhone sold.
You missed where I neither said nor implied that.
...within the bounds of the laws...
Fifth Amendment stops them from doing what they wanted from Apple.
[And here is where you claim that the FBI is always investigating all of us.]
No, that’s what the Patriot Act says, not my claim at all.
If you don't like that they could break through your door, you are welcome to build a better door (or for Apple to build a better phone).
Literally the exact opposite of how our government works.
But to suggest that the FBI shouldn't ever research ways to carry out their duties is the disingenuous argument.
Good thing I never suggested that.
How about we also state that they can't ever fire their weapons in training to prepare for carrying out their duties.
That’s retarded, if true, and I wonder (rhetorically) who was responsible for that...
No, the FBI should not have asked Apple to help in the way that they did. But that does not mean the FBI doesn't have a responsibility to prepare to carry out their duties to investigate crimes, even if that means figuring out a way to break into a phone that is used by a suspected criminal.
The evil and corrupt FBI exists for itself, not for the American people. They deliberately violate the 4th Amendment of the Constitution and their oath of office to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic"The FBI fits the definition of a domestic enemy of the United States. Stingrays, which act as cell towers and suck data from all mobile phones nearby cannot be applied to targeted searches. It casts a wide net of data collection. If you are unlucky, your data will be sucked in with criminals. NSA/FBI got caught red handed perverting the patriot act to collect everyone's phone metadata under the 215 program of the NSA and NSA/DNI officials kept it secret even to the point of lying to Congress under oath. Without Snowden, you and I and 85% of Congress would have been ignorant of the mass domestic spying program. I distrust any activity by the FBI. Congress should pull the financial plug of the FBI. Let them run out money and whither away.
No matter how paranoid or conspiracy-minded you are, what the government is actually doing is worse than you can imagine.
– William Blum
The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to the realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst. He rejects even the assumption that human creatures could espouse a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent.
– J. Edgar Hoover
We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.
– William Casey, CIA director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
From what I read, the FBI did not get a chance to retrieve any info from the San Bernadardino phone. They spilled a glass of water on it immediately after it was unlocked.
wigeon said: Would you also state that the FBI has no business finding better ways to breach doors to arrest criminals or rescue hostages just because you inconveniently also have a door on the front of your house.
Yes, because if you want an argument that isn’t disingenuous you’ll have to pretend that the FBI is calling for every single door in the country to be unlockable with a single key.
Good analogy Tallest Skill! Continuing, one key would then be provided to every law enforcement agency, and within weeks would be available on the Internet, just like the "highly secure" TSA luggage lock that millions of folks were forced to buy.
If I didn't know better, I'd say the FBI (F*cking Bloody Idiots) were attempting a little bad PR payback against Apple by frequently referring to (now) being able access their devices.
What better do you know? IMO that is what the FBI are doing, by saying "we can now do it".
Now it looks like the FBI may be able to sell their break in service. They could then pay for some of their upkeep.
Comments
disclaimer: For those who say there aren't any laws think again. I spent many years writing security plans for a government contractor.
Yes, it's important to have a discussion about how they go about carrying out their mandated duties. But to state that they have "no business" carrying out those duties is a bit ignorant and self-serving, don't you think?
If you are a suspected criminal and are being investigated, it doesn't matter if it's a door or a phone, it's the FBI's responsibility to carry out their investigation within the bounds of the laws that govern their activities (which includes obtaining the necessary warrants for any searches).
[And here is where you claim that the FBI is always investigating all of us.]
If you don't like that they could break through your door, you are welcome to build a better door (or for Apple to build a better phone). But to suggest that the FBI shouldn't ever research ways to carry out their duties is the disingenuous argument. How about we also state that they can't ever fire their weapons in training to prepare for carrying out their duties. I'm sure they'll be able to figure it out when they are faced with an armed hostage taker. And why bother researching how to investigate terrorist bombings or other forensic techniques. I'm sure they will have plenty of time figure out how to do that after the event has taken place.
Like any other profession, you train, and practice and conduct research to find ways to do your job more effectively. But, you still need to be held accountable for performing your job responsibly and ethically. No, the FBI should not have asked Apple to help in the way that they did. But that does not mean the FBI doesn't have a responsibility to prepare to carry out their duties to investigate crimes, even if that means figuring out a way to break into a phone that is used by a suspected criminal.
No, that’s what the Patriot Act says, not my claim at all.
Literally the exact opposite of how our government works.
Good thing I never suggested that.
That’s retarded, if true, and I wonder (rhetorically) who was responsible for that...
How can you say this right after this?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/secrecy-around-police-surveillance-equipment-proves-a-cases-undoing/2015/02/22/ce72308a-b7ac-11e4-aa05-1ce812b3fdd2_story.html?tid=a_inl
The evil and corrupt FBI exists for itself, not for the American people. They deliberately violate the 4th Amendment of the Constitution and their oath of office to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" The FBI fits the definition of a domestic enemy of the United States. Stingrays, which act as cell towers and suck data from all mobile phones nearby cannot be applied to targeted searches. It casts a wide net of data collection. If you are unlucky, your data will be sucked in with criminals. NSA/FBI got caught red handed perverting the patriot act to collect everyone's phone metadata under the 215 program of the NSA and NSA/DNI officials kept it secret even to the point of lying to Congress under oath. Without Snowden, you and I and 85% of Congress would have been ignorant of the mass domestic spying program. I distrust any activity by the FBI. Congress should pull the financial plug of the FBI. Let them run out money and whither away.
No matter how paranoid or conspiracy-minded you are, what the government is actually doing is worse than you can imagine.
– William Blum
The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to the realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst. He rejects even the assumption that human creatures could espouse a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent.
– J. Edgar Hoover
We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.
– William Casey, CIA director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
IMO that is what the FBI are doing, by saying "we can now do it".
Now it looks like the FBI may be able to sell their break in service.
They could then pay for some of their upkeep.