Only months after launch, 'Disney Infinity' ditches support for Apple TV

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  • Reply 21 of 109
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 3,922member
    sog35 said:
    I swear sog is bi-polar. One day we get a defense of whatever Apple does and it's all about margins and profits blah blah blah. The next, a litany of all these things Apple is doing wrong and why Tim Cook is terrible. 
    Some days I'm speaking as an investor.
    Some days I'm speaking as a consumer.

    As an investor I think Tim Cook is doing okay short term.
    As a consumer I'm not satisfied with Cook at all.

    The problem is if more consumers feel like me that will effect investors also.

    My main point of this rant is i'm sick of Apple making half-assed product on purpose just to get future upgrades. The AppleTV4 is the prime example. There is absolutely ZERO reason for it not to have 4k. NONE. The only reason they don't include 4k is so you are forced to buy AppleTV5.

    Don't get me wrong. Overall Apple still makes the best products. But as a consumer its extremely frustrating to know that a company withholds features on purpose. Did Steve Jobs do the same?  Did he withhold key features for the iPod and iMac? 

    I wish Apple would just sacrifice some short term profits and just release the best product possible.
    In the long-term they will make more profits.
    I'm sorry there should be no daylight between an investor and a consumer. The consumer should drive Apple's product decisions full stop. If Apple is making poor product decisions to pacify sell side analysts and wall street then Cook is not doing his job as CEO.
    roger wadepropod
  • Reply 22 of 109
    AppleTV is a strange effort:

    - very buggy - especially when using the headline feature of siri. Not because Siri doesn't recognize the command but because, for example, fast forwarding through Siri seems to be treated differently from fast forwarding with the buttons. And so the system will hang-up or "lose its place".

    - as everyone has noted and has noted since the rule was announced - making siri remote compatibility a requirement has hamstrung game developers.

    - the bizarre "long string of letters" data entry method is frustrating. even with siri support this should be replaced promptly with a normal system. hunt and peck is bad but why make it worse?

    - controller orientation is difficult/impossible to figure out in the dark. This problem is exacerbated by having a highly sensitive touch portion that is easily triggered.

    We bought two controllers (my mistake) and the higher spec storage (my mistake). I was waiting for years for an improved apple tv (see this: http://q10a1.blogspot.com/2014/05/appletv-and-gaming.html) but, after buying it at launch, have found that I use it pretty much the same way I use our other apple tvs. It gets heavy use but I could have gotten the same functionality for one-quarter (less with controllers) of the price.



    To note some good things:

    1) HDMI-CDC is great. Being able to control the TV volume and power with the apple remote is seamless for us.

    2) Responsive. It is much faster than our old Apple TV, especially at pulling up our purchased movie library.

    3) When siri works, it is convenient. It would be nice if I didn't have to hunt for the button though - how about a center location if we are really supposed to use it for everything? Or just Alexa style? There has to be enough horsepower in the new box to support that.
    edited March 2016 caliroger wade
  • Reply 23 of 109
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,979member
    I really wonder how many people are using TV for games. My guess is not many. Serious gamers would be using a console or gaming PC and everyone else is probably just playing games on their iPad or iPhone. If Apple really wanted TV to be a gaming platform they would have made a controller for it and included it in the box. 
    Apple are not targeting 'serious' gamers... just yet. Apple are entering the industry through the back door, targeting casual gamers first, and doing a very good job of it.
    Getting kids into it first is the best way to go, and they just lost a great kids game. 
    cali
  • Reply 24 of 109
    sog35 said:

    1. Not bringing a bigger iPhone for 5s.  Instead he wanted to sell as many 5s then force 5s buyers to buy the 6 a year later.

    Crud. Here I'm still using my 5S. The Mapple goons must not have caught up with me yet.
  • Reply 25 of 109
    sog35 said:

    auxio said:
    Then ditch your AppleTV and get a Chromecast/FireTV/whatever.  I'm sure you'll have a perfect experience with those devices and never have any need to complain again.  Imagine how much easier and less stressful your life will be...
    The hell with that crap.

    I've invested a ton on the Apple ecosystem.  iPhone6+/MacMini/iPad/Watch/AppleTV.  

    Piss me off I've spend THOUSANDS on Apple and they can't match the features of a $20 chromecast.
    So terminate your membership of this forum and go over to the dark side. I'm sure that MS will welcome you with open (and data slurping arms) (I am joking here)

    Let's be honest. No company other than the one you own and control can deliver every little feature that you want in a device.
    Why not voice your concerns directly to Tim Cook at the Apple AGM? That is your chance as a shareholder.
     
    calimessagepad2100propod
  • Reply 26 of 109
    I find it interesting that many are writing off Sog. Yes, they are being a little dramatic, but their underlining question is completely valid. Oh, and someone on here used the horrible "they're making billions" rebuttal. 

    Sog brings up a good point that Apple hasn't released anything amazing lately. iPhone gets thinner every year and adopts the best of what other phones have. It's really not that hard to know pretty much what they'll turn out. I will give them though, the 64 Bit ARM. That was really amazing, but from a users perspective, we don't see a night and day difference. I mean really, many here hooped and hollered about it yet many Apple folks are so quick to point out "oh it's just a spec, user experience is what matters". Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.

    iPad... oh iPad. You've never really had a home. You showed lots of potential yet you continue to drag along being "just" relevant enough. Sure, it's good for people who don't do much. I've actually recommended it to some folks who I know it would be more than sufficient for their needs. But it has yet to fulfill it's promise of being a "game changer" in the medical and educational industries.

    As for the Apple watch, I will hold judgement for another year or so. It's a new category and rightfully should be given time to expand and see its potential.

    AppleTV, as far as I see, it's an utter fail. Apple has had YEARS to do something and have fallen flat on their face with it. Overpriced video streamer. Does it have potential? Maybe, but that's what we've been sold on for the last 5 years or so. No live tv? That's Apple's fault. No other company that wanted live tv seemed to have a problem obtaining it. Apps, that would have been "revolutionary" 3 years ago. They fell behind completely on that one. The thing is, developers have options now. And on devices that are in far many more homes than an AppleTV.

    And lastly... oh mac oh mac oh mac. Do they still make those anymore? Jokes aside, there isn't going to be much going on here for any manufacturer. Market is matured. Now Apple just goes stingy on ram & ssd. They've always been stingy on ram, only difference is that now I can't put in my better and cheaper RAM on my own. Same with SSD.

    Apple is no longer the company that wows. It has become a "life style" brand and that is why it sells billions. So the guy that used that as an argument, the only person that wins are investors. If you are not, I don't know why you're celebrating because Apple has yet to do anything fruit full, strictly from a customers perspective, with those billions. Billions for Beats? Fashion. Hermes band? Fashion. New store layouts? Fashion. iPhone? Sacrificing function for fashion.

    I've personally started to re-integrate other companies into my life because Apple just doesn't cut it anymore. I'll always have a Mac and probably an iPhone but everything else... there's something better. Better watch, better router, better video streamer, better headphones, etc. Take a minute to actually look at things objectively and you'll see that too. Apple has lost its shine.
    edited March 2016 cali
  • Reply 27 of 109
    singularitysingularity Posts: 1,329member
    sog35 said:
    NemWan said:
    If Apple can sell the Apple Pencil separately from the iPad Pro, they can sell an Apple-branded game controller separately from the Apple TV and eliminate the Siri remote limitation. Developers are not going to be "forced" to support this platform.
    The Siri remote limitation is a stupid ass move by Tim Cook.

    Sick of this shit.

    Glad I was able to download an emulator and play Genesis/SNES/NES/SuperNES games on my AppleTV4.  That's the only saving grace of this pathetic attempt by Apple.

    IMO, Tim Cook needs to be replaced by a CEO who has VISION.
    Tim Cook is too concerned about Wall STreet and quarterly numbers.

    We need a CEO who has VISION.
    A CEO who will DEMAND products to be perfect and not make half-assed products to insure upgrades next year.
    Tim Cook purposely makes Apple products worse than they should be so consumers have to upgrade next year.
    Piss poor VISION.  
    I want a CEO who wants to give us THE BEST PRODUCT POSSIBLE. PERIOD.  

    Some examples of Tim Cook half ass product strategy:

    1. Not bringing a bigger iPhone for 5s.  Instead he wanted to sell as many 5s then force 5s buyers to buy the 6 a year later.
    2. Not updating iPadAir2 for multiple years. Piss poor upgrades to iPad Mini
    3. Not giving 128GB option on SE
    4. Not giving 2GB RAM on iPad Pro 9.7
    5. No 4k or lossless audio on AppleTV4
    6. Piss poor updates on AppleTV3 - allowing Roku/Chromecast/FireTV to steal large chunks of the market
    7. Piss poor updates on Macbook PRO, MacPRO, MacbookAir
    8. Piss poor RAM and harddrive on entry level iMac's
    9. No live TV package on AppleTV

    I can go on and on.  

    And the only reason for these piss poor half ass products is to make sure people upgrade next year
    So what you are saying is Apple is deliberately planning obeslesance in its product line up purely to drive sales?
  • Reply 28 of 109
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 3,922member
    drewyboy said:
    I find it interesting that many are writing off Sog.
    Because Sog talks out of both sides of his/her mouth. No consistent opinion. One minute defending iPad mini 3, the next claiming Apple is intentionally engaging in planned obsolescence to get people to upgrade more frequently. I'd have more respect for Sog's opinions if they were consistent (and not based on what the stock is doing or what Wall Street thinks).
    singularitycalijackansimessagepad2100afrodri
  • Reply 29 of 109
    sog35 said:

    bdkennedy said:
    I don't blame them. My Apple TV has been collecting dust since I bought it. After 2 months I turned it on to see if there were any substantial apps to catch my attention. Still nothing but garbage.

    You got me Apple, you got me good. A black $199 brick.
    I'm in the same situation. I bought the AppleTV on release date for $199.  Bought 2 game controllers also.

    The only thing I use it for is to watch Netflix. Friken ridiculous for a $199 device.  Could do the same with a $20 Chromecast.

    The lack of Apps is piss poor.
    I can say the same thing about Apple Watch.  Where the fuc are all the great Apps?  And why the fuc does it still take 20 seconds to get weather updates on my watch?  

    The Tim Cook Apple is half-ass Apple.
    Releasing half-ass products so you are forced to upgrade the next year.
    Always withholding features for no reason at all.


    What were you expecting it to do? I use mine every single day for all types of things. However, I am a cord cutter and I have a reason to use it a lot.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 30 of 109
    auxio said:
    sog35 said:
    Personally I sick of this slow steady progress.  Sick of it. The competition does not do this. Why the hell does Apple have to withhold features ON PURPOSE?  So sick of this crap. Why can't Apple just give us the goods.  They are always withholding features for no other reason so we need to upgrade to AppleTV5 in year. Sick of this shit.
    Then ditch your AppleTV and get a Chromecast/FireTV/whatever.  I'm sure you'll have a perfect experience with those devices and never have any need to complain again.  Imagine how much easier and less stressful your life will be...
    This is not a terribly useful response. Of course anyone can do that.

    It really would be more helpful, in terms of advancing the discussion, if you could rebut his points. Unless, of course, you don't really wish to advance the discussion.

    (As an aside, for someone who had pretty much gone after every new product intro or major upgrade from Apple for at least a couple of decades now, the 4th Gen AppleTV is the first one I've passed on. I am not saying that is in any way meaningful for anyone else, but the fact that I did not hanker after it does give me pause about the pace and scope of product development in the past couple of years).
    edited March 2016 bobschlobpalominepscooter63
  • Reply 31 of 109

    drewyboy said:
    I find it interesting that many are writing off Sog. Yes, they are being a little dramatic, but their underlining question is completely valid. Oh, and someone on here used the horrible "they're making billions" rebuttal. 

    Sog brings up a good point that Apple hasn't released anything amazing lately. iPhone gets thinner every year and adopts the best of what other phones have. It's really not that hard to know pretty much what they'll turn out. I will give them though, the 64 Bit ARM. That was really amazing, but from a users perspective, we don't see a night and day difference. I mean really, many here hooped and hollered about it yet many Apple folks are so quick to point out "oh it's just a spec, user experience is what matters". Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.

    iPad... oh iPad. You've never really had a home. You showed lots of potential yet you continue to drag along being "just" relevant enough. Sure, it's good for people who don't do much. I've actually recommended it to some folks who I know it would be more than sufficient for their needs. But it has yet to fulfill it's promise of being a "game changer" in the medical and educational industries.

    As for the Apple watch, I will hold judgement for another year or so. It's a new category and rightfully should be given time to expand and see its potential.

    AppleTV, as far as I see, it's an utter fail. Apple has had YEARS to do something and have fallen flat on their face with it. Overpriced video streamer. Does it have potential? Maybe, but that's what we've been sold on for the last 5 years or so. No live tv? That's Apple's fault. No other company that wanted live tv seemed to have a problem obtaining it. Apps, that would have been "revolutionary" 3 years ago. They fell behind completely on that one. The thing is, developers have options now. And on devices that are in far many more homes than an AppleTV.

    And lastly... oh mac oh mac oh mac. Do they still make those anymore? Jokes aside, there isn't going to be much going on here for any manufacturer. Market is matured. Now Apple just goes stingy on ram & ssd. They've always been stingy on ram, only difference is that now I can't put in my better and cheaper RAM on my own. Same with SSD.

    Apple is no longer the company that wows. It has become a "life style" brand and that is why it sells billions. So the guy that used that as an argument, the only person that wins are investors. If you are not, I don't know why you're celebrating because Apple has yet to do anything fruit full, strictly from a customers perspective, with those billions. Billions for Beats? Fashion. Hermes band? Fashion. New store layouts? Fashion. iPhone? Sacrificing function for fashion.

    I've personally started to re-integrate other companies into my life because Apple just doesn't cut it anymore. I'll always have a Mac and probably an iPhone but everything else... there's something better. Better watch, better router, better video streamer, better headphones, etc. Take a minute to actually look at things objectively and you'll see that too. Apple has lost its shine.
    Please tell me what amazing product another company has released and what amazing product Apple should be releasing? Everyone always expects Apple to bring out some visionary product but can't ever say what that product is, what it should do or how it should come to be? It's a BS line of thinking.
    williamlondonspliff monkeyafrodri
  • Reply 32 of 109
    muppetry said:
    bdkennedy said:
    I don't blame them. My Apple TV has been collecting dust since I bought it. After 2 months I turned it on to see if there were any substantial apps to catch my attention. Still nothing but garbage.

    You got me Apple, you got me good. A black $199 brick.
    So why did you buy it in the first place? Were you expecting it to do something that it doesn't?
    Well, I guess you would have to actually, I don't know, USE it first?
    roger wade
  • Reply 33 of 109
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 3,922member
    This planned obselence nonsense is just that, nonsense. Apple releases products when they think they're ready. They're not intentionally holding back hardware to save it for the next model. That's as absurd as those who think Apple intentionally constraints supply at a product launch to create the illusion of demand. To believe that you have to assume people would wait around for said product to become available vs buying something else and you have to assume Apple is comfortable with taking that chance. It's completely absurd. Mostly because Apple would rather have a guaranteed sale now then the promise of one in the future. Also it's not like Apple employees are sitting around doing nothing all day. There's always new innovations in the pipeline. Holding features back isn't necessary.
    calimessagepad2100pscooter63
  • Reply 34 of 109
    sog35 said:
    drewyboy said:


    I've personally started to re-integrate other companies into my life because Apple just doesn't cut it anymore. I'll always have a Mac and probably an iPhone but everything else... there's something better. Better watch, better router, better video streamer, better headphones, etc. Take a minute to actually look at things objectively and you'll see that too. Apple has lost its shine.
    I agree.

    I've been tempted to buy an Amazon Echo. Apple should be dominating home automation but they are not.  The AppleTV should have been the answer.

    Just curious what Watch and Video streamer did you buy?
    For my watch, I'm going to be getting Fitbit. I need to be very honest here, I have not own an Apple Watch, I do ask my coworkers quite a few question about it, but still, have not used. I will probably get V2 to finally have a hands on say, so my opinion on the watch is from a non-owner but researching perspective. I understand the when it comes down to personal use, it varies wildly, but for me, it seems a basic Fitbit will accomplish all that I NEED a watch to do. When AppleWatch V2 comes out, it'll experience the what it "can" do on top of my needs.

    For streamer, Roku hands down. Only thing I miss from my now sold AppleTV, is the screen mirroring. I hardly used it, but it was very handy when I did.

    Apple really has started to lose favor with me. Maybe it's because Jobs was really good at creating the "distortion field", maybe it was because they really did great things, but regardless, I no longer am wowed by most things Apple puts out. If I was an investor, I'm not sure how I'd feel, probably torn like you, but since I'm strictly a consumer, I'm looking elsewhere for things.
    edited March 2016
  • Reply 35 of 109
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,980member
    sog35 said:
    I swear sog is bi-polar. One day we get a defense of whatever Apple does and it's all about margins and profits blah blah blah. The next, a litany of all these things Apple is doing wrong and why Tim Cook is terrible. 
    My main point of this rant is i'm sick of Apple making half-assed product on purpose just to get future upgrades. The AppleTV4 is the prime example. There is absolutely ZERO reason for it not to have 4k. NONE. The only reason they don't include 4k is so you are forced to buy AppleTV5.
    And speaking as someone with extensive experience in graphics application development (i.e. working knowledge and not just talking out of my ass based on a few minutes of reading articles designed for people who have the attention span of a hamster), I can tell you that running interactive apps & games at 4K smoothly just isn't possible on anything but very high-end (re. expensive) computers.  But please, continue to vehemently defend a position based on ZERO knowledge.

    Now, whether or not Apple should have put very limited 4K support in (only for playing/streaming prerecorded 4K video) and had that lovely "video mode-switching" effect you see on the Playstation (and other devices) + had the world of Internet haters complaining on every social media channel they can find that it's not true 4K, is the only matter up for debate. 
    edited March 2016 brucemcmessagepad2100afrodri
  • Reply 36 of 109
    boltsfan17boltsfan17 Posts: 2,160member
    I really wonder how many people are using TV for games. My guess is not many. Serious gamers would be using a console or gaming PC and everyone else is probably just playing games on their iPad or iPhone. If Apple really wanted TV to be a gaming platform they would have made a controller for it and included it in the box. 
    Apple are not targeting 'serious' gamers... just yet. Apple are entering the industry through the back door, targeting casual gamers first, and doing a very good job of it.
    Apple TV really isn't geared for casual gamers either. Statistics show casual gamers are using consoles or pc's. The sales of console games blow away app based games you see on smart phones and Apple TV. There are some decent games on Apple TV, but nothing comes even remotely close to the games you find on consoles. Apple TV obviously isn't powerful enough to have console games such as the Witcher 3, Uncharted 4, etc. I don't think you can knock Apple at all however. The new ATV4 is a great all around device, but I just don't think you can consider even a good casual gaming device. 
  • Reply 37 of 109
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,980member
    auxio said:
    Then ditch your AppleTV and get a Chromecast/FireTV/whatever.  I'm sure you'll have a perfect experience with those devices and never have any need to complain again.  Imagine how much easier and less stressful your life will be...
    This is not a terribly useful response. Of course anyone can do that.

    It really would be more helpful, in terms of advancing the discussion, if you could rebut his points. Unless, of course, you don't really wish to advance the discussion.
    I'm willing to put as much thought into my answers as sog is.  I just posted one small in-depth discussion on 4K -- we'll see if sog is willing to move beyond simply foaming at the mouth and advance some arguments based on actual research and critical thought.
    singularityafrodri
  • Reply 38 of 109
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,328member
    bdkennedy said:
    muppetry said:
    So why did you buy it in the first place? Were you expecting it to do something that it doesn't?
    Well, I guess you would have to actually, I don't know, USE it first?
    Is that your purchasing strategy - just buy one of everything to see what it does?
  • Reply 39 of 109
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,980member
    auxio said:
    Then ditch your AppleTV and get a Chromecast/FireTV/whatever.  I'm sure you'll have a perfect experience with those devices and never have any need to complain again.  Imagine how much easier and less stressful your life will be...
    (As an aside, for someone who had pretty much gone after every new product intro or major upgrade from Apple for at least a couple of decades now, the 4th Gen AppleTV is the first one I've passed on. I am not saying that is in any way meaningful for anyone else, but the fact that I did not hanker after it does give me pause about the pace and scope of product development in the past couple of years).
    For the AppleTV, it's really all about the quality of the apps being developed for it.  And there's a couple of barriers Apple is facing:

    • A lot of companies which provide/sell content already have a vested interest in tying you to an existing hardware device.  So either they won't create an app for AppleTV, or they'll make a half-baked one which isn't as good as the one for the device they really want you to buy.
    • The less people who buy an AppleTV, the less money there is to be made for app developers (and thus, the lower quality the apps will be).  So it creates a chicken-and-egg problem where people are waiting for good apps, and app developers are waiting for numbers to prove it's worthwhile to develop/port apps.

    The first problem is difficult to solve (requires difficult negotiations with content providers).  The second problem could be solved by funding/helping a few big app & game development shops to bring their titles to AppleTV.
  • Reply 40 of 109
    19831983 Posts: 1,165member
    It seems to me TV is going to end up dead in the water. Its neither here nor there (like the Watch). Too pricey for a streamer, not powerful enough for games, no 4K. The UI still has too many quirks even after the recent tvOS upgrade, competing systems just work better and are cheaper to boot.

    Its a similar situation with the new iPad Pro 9.7"...who's this thing really for? They should of just called it an iPad Air 3 and be done with it. 'Professional' creatives are not going to use it, they're going to use an iPad Pro 12.9" or more likely a Microsoft Surface Pro. This is just an example of Cooks 'lack of focus' management style. The guy has no vision, so Apple just pointlessly fires in all directions, seeing what sticks. A similar attitude to what caused the company to ultimately crash in the early 90s.

    And this is Disney! One of Apple's biggest corporate fanboys, and they're dumping TV4! What does that say about this inferior product? The only way this might be saved is if in the Fall keynote Apple release a hugely upgraded TV5 with all the trimmings (so to speak) that TV4 should of had from the beginning. This product ended up being a huge missed opportunity for Apple. 
    edited March 2016
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