Look at the penetration of garbage phones: Huawei and Oppo, pure Chinese copycats. These phones probably make close to zero profits.
you've never used their phones and you think it's crap..rightttt....makes sense.
huawei sells from the cheaper end to the higher end (phones in the $600+ range)...they just started penetrating the USA market and if you look at the consumer comments about it in amazon, they received very high ratings for phones even in the $200 range.
http://www.amazon.com/Honor-5X-Metal-Unlocked-Smartphone/dp/B019O8YWR0/
scroll down to the reviews and weep.
Now, if you find a phone that is just as good but sells for $400 less, you'd be stupid to buy the $600 one right? right.
note: i have the honor 5x and i love it...very fast fingerprint sensor, SD card, phone management software, and the usual google goodies...and it cost me $$200...that's $400 more i can save or spend somewhere else....
The S versions usually have a tougher sell due to the lack of external redesign.
Although I think that part of the issue this year was that the biggest selling feature was 3D Touch which as of yet has proven a bit of a lame duck.
It's a fantastic phone, I own one. But I can see how strong releases from competitors have been able to put a dent in their lead this year.
Nope. Samsung/HTC/Sony/LG has not made a single dent to iPhone sales. iPhone sales are down for the simple reason that iPhone 6 was a super cycle of pent up demand.
Notice that Samsung/HTC/Sony/LG have not released unit sales? Its because they are worse then last year. They are not stealing any sales from Apple.
you've never used their phones and you think it's crap..rightttt....makes sense.
huawei sells from the cheaper end to the higher end (phones in the $600+ range)...they just started penetrating the USA market and if you look at the consumer comments about it in amazon, they received very high ratings for phones even in the $200 range.
http://www.amazon.com/Honor-5X-Metal-Unlocked-Smartphone/dp/B019O8YWR0/
scroll down to the reviews and weep.
Now, if you find a phone that is just as good but sells for $400 less, you'd be stupid to buy the $600 one right? right.
note: i have the honor 5x and i love it...very fast fingerprint sensor, SD card, phone management software, and the usual google goodies...and it cost me $$200...that's $400 more i can save or spend somewhere else....
so why are you wasting time here.
Go to your Huawei fan board. Oh, I forgot. There isn't such a thing because no one actually likes their products but simply buy it because thats all they can afford.
Please. Huawei will die on the vine like all other companies that try to compete with the iPhone: Samsung, Xiaomi, Blackberry, HTC, Sony, LG. Next will be Huawei. Another China brand will undercut Huawei prices and drive them to bankruptcy.
An article on this website from today just pointed out that ios dropped to 15% from 18% marketshare.
I'm a longtime apple user and fan but it's justified. You can't sell at premium prices when the competition is ahead of you. See the Galaxy s7, I hate how they copy apple and I don't like Samsung logo, but it's ahead of iPhone, period. Sometimes I wonder what apple is doing because competition is on par or ahead of them (Apple TV (no Dutch Siri or voice active here), Mac Pro (they will lose video market too if they don't have a compelling update soon, but I know video editors who've already given up on Apple)). I'm willing to pay a little bit more for an apple and was waiting for Apple to introduce an iMac with the latest i7 and screen update. I got disappointed and angry when they did. Soldered ram, a hard drive from the nineties and above premium price. Forgive my bad English but when you don't stay ahead of the competition it's not justified to ask premium prices. That's how the market works and you'll see in product market share. And no, I'm not a troll. Just a disappointment Apple user. I hope Apple will do better. It's like a dejavu for me. I was disappointed in the late nineties too when Steve said PowerPC was the future and my friends with Intel pcs were much faster with their wintel in Photoshop than my 3x expensive G4 power Mac. Come on Apple, your products are not that diverse as Samsung or other brands. Concentrate and make the best again. Listen to your loyal user base and bring more ports to your MacBooks. Aesthetics are important but so does workability. How ugly is a MacBook with adaptors. I hope WWDC will bring some innovation again and the iPhone 7 mind blowing. Cheers.
sure you are an Apple fan.
And that's why you only have 6 posts here and each one is negative.
Sorry, sog35 I'm just not blinded by rose gold. And I want my money spent well. Maybe I only react when I'm dissatisfied. Apple has done great, great things but they're getting slow and behind in technology. I've seen that happening before and I'm expressing my concerns because I care for Apple as most appleinsider users do. I find it shortsighted of you to put me off like only posting negativity. Open your eyes and face reality. Here in the Netherlands I see more and more Samsung S7 edge phones and video professionals departing Mac platform. I don't have the money for a 27 inch iMac. I was considering waiting for a new 21,5 inch and it's not compelling for that price. MacBook with just one port? Ever thought of backing up, needing your usb drive and needing power? If you see otherwise, please make me see it otherwise instead of unfounded claims. Cheers.
I'm a longtime apple user and fan but it's justified. You can't sell at premium prices when the competition is ahead of you. See the Galaxy s7, I hate how they copy apple and I don't like Samsung logo, but it's ahead of iPhone, period. Sometimes I wonder what apple is doing because competition is on par or ahead of them (Apple TV (no Dutch Siri or voice active here), Mac Pro (they will lose video market too if they don't have a compelling update soon, but I know video editors who've already given up on Apple)). I'm willing to pay a little bit more for an apple and was waiting for Apple to introduce an iMac with the latest i7 and screen update. I got disappointed and angry when they did. Soldered ram, a hard drive from the nineties and above premium price. Forgive my bad English but when you don't stay ahead of the competition it's not justified to ask premium prices. That's how the market works and you'll see in product market share. And no, I'm not a troll. Just a disappointment Apple user. I hope Apple will do better. It's like a dejavu for me. I was disappointed in the late nineties too when Steve said PowerPC was the future and my friends with Intel pcs were much faster with their wintel in Photoshop than my 3x expensive G4 power Mac. Come on Apple, your products are not that diverse as Samsung or other brands. Concentrate and make the best again. Listen to your loyal user base and bring more ports to your MacBooks. Aesthetics are important but so does workability. How ugly is a MacBook with adaptors. I hope WWDC will bring some innovation again and the iPhone 7 mind blowing. Cheers.
Apple is years ahead of the competition and worth every penny. This is why everyone who can afford an Apple device owns one.
Stick to your spyware knockoffs if it makes you happy.
You don't read what I'm trying to tell you and I'm only expressing my concerns. This is mainly the reason why I'm trying to avoid posting here. You only can post positive otherwise you'll be put off like a troll.
An article on this website from today just pointed out that ios dropped to 15% from 18% marketshare.
Markeshare includes ALL PHONES. Including POS $99 phones. So iOS markeshare can easily drop because there was an increase in cheap phones sales. But that does not mean Apple is losing ANYTHING in the segment they compete in ( $400+ phones).
Show me one shread of evidence that any company stole market share from Apple in the $400+ price range?
In fact Android switchers going to iOS is the highest EVER. This is what Tim Cook said on Tuesday:
"Second, we continue to see a very high level of customers switching to iPhone from Android and other operating systems. In fact, we added more switchers from Android and other platforms in the first half of this year than any other six-month period ever."
All the premium android phones are stealing sales from each other not from Apple.
Since the launch of the iPhone 1, there has been a continuous shift from low cost features phone to more expensive smart phones. There is absolutely no indication whatsoever that people are going back to cheaper phones. If the market share of iPhone dropped from 18% to 15% in a single quarter and the absolute number of iPhones dropped from roughly 60M to 50M while the overall market dropped only a few percent, it is very difficult to assume that are more Android to iPhone switchers than vice versa. Tim Cook might tell otherwise, but facts remain facts. A 3% drop in market share in a single quarter can only be reached, if Apple has lost some marketshare in premium segment. There might be a move form premium to mid or low-cost segment, but the impact of this can never be 3% of the whole market, without other vendors reporting that they have seen a clear shift from their top models to their low cost models. Samsung has declared in its Q1 results that the S7 is doing really well. Christmas time is long gone, it is time to stop believing in Santa Claus.
Markeshare includes ALL PHONES. Including POS $99 phones. So iOS markeshare can easily drop because there was an increase in cheap phones sales. But that does not mean Apple is losing ANYTHING in the segment they compete in ( $400+ phones).
Show me one shread of evidence that any company stole market share from Apple in the $400+ price range?
In fact Android switchers going to iOS is the highest EVER. This is what Tim Cook said on Tuesday:
"Second, we continue to see a very high level of customers switching to iPhone from Android and other operating systems. In fact, we added more switchers from Android and other platforms in the first half of this year than any other six-month period ever."
All the premium android phones are stealing sales from each other not from Apple.
Since the launch of the iPhone 1, there has been a continuous shift from low cost features phone to more expensive smart phones. There is absolutely no indication whatsoever that people are going back to cheaper phones. If the market share of iPhone dropped from 18% to 15% in a single quarter and the absolute number of iPhones dropped from roughly 60M to 50M while the overall market dropped only a few percent, it is very difficult to assume that are more Android to iPhone switchers than vice versa. Tim Cook might tell otherwise, but facts remain facts. A 3% drop in market share in a single quarter can only be reached, if Apple has lost some marketshare in premium segment. There might be a move form premium to mid or low-cost segment, but the impact of this can never be 3% of the whole market, without other vendors reporting that they have seen a clear shift from their top models to their low cost models. Samsung has declared in its Q1 results that the S7 is doing really well. Christmas time is long gone, it is time to stop believing in Santa Claus.
I totally agree with you! I love Apple but im a realist too.
Apple still dominates premium phones - AKA - the only phones that make profit.
Here is your quote from the recent topic that seems to contradict to what you just said.
So what's more important? Selling LESS devices for GREATER profit (what Apple has been doing)? Or selling MORE devices with LITTLE profit and make more money from the services (what Google has been doing)? At the end more devices means more service exposure, right?
I'd argue that while phones are selling it is best to maximize profits and invest in services that will be profitable when phone become low cost commodities. In reality Apple is at such a volume now, that a gain or loss of 15 - 20 million units sales a year will make little difference in what is does. Services will grow regardless as the installed base becomes more cloud savvy over time and phone sales will rise and fall as older units are retired and the services keep them locked into the brand.
Sorry, sog35 I'm just not blinded by rose gold. And I want my money spent well. Maybe I only react when I'm dissatisfied. Apple has done great, great things but they're getting slow and behind in technology. I've seen that happening before and I'm expressing my concerns because I care for Apple as most appleinsider users do. I find it shortsighted of you to put me off like only posting negativity. Open your eyes and face reality. Here in the Netherlands I see more and more Samsung S7 edge phones and video professionals departing Mac platform. I don't have the money for a 27 inch iMac. I was considering waiting for a new 21,5 inch and it's not compelling for that price. MacBook with just one port? Ever thought of backing up, needing your usb drive and needing power? If you see otherwise, please make me see it otherwise instead of unfounded claims. Cheers.
You are the one wearing rose colored glasses.
Show me some facts that prove what you are saying. Spewing out observations does not cut it. You say Samsung S7 is killing iPhone? Give me a break.
Samsung mobile made $3.89 billion in operating profit last quarter. In 2013 Samsung mobile made $6.51 billion in operating profit in the 1st quarter. Samsung mobile profits are DOWN 40% from 3 years ago. Don't give this bullshit that the S7 is killing it.
Three years ago the Galaxy S3 was the flagship. The Galaxy S7 is doing WAY WORSE than that. Proof? Profits are down 40% from when the S3 was the flagship. Since then Apple has been getting stronger. Three years ago Apple sold 37 million iPhones in the March quarter. This year they sold 50 million. Almost a 40% growth.
So stop with the utter bullshit that the S7 is 'catching up' with iPhone. Please. The S7 hasn't even caught up with Galaxy S3 sales. Hell it has not even caught up with iPhone 5 sales from THREE YEARS AGO.
The market is responding and time will tell. I see more Galaxy S7 edge here in the Netherlands then I'm seeing iPhones at the moment. And yes it's a better phone then the iPhone 6s right now from a hardware point of view (screen, camera, waterproofing). I love iOS but that cap is closing and on many fronts (Google now, maps) Apple is the one who needs to catch up. More and more people are buying mid level phones and I can't blame them. So yes I do believe that if the iphone7 isn't a big step forward, Apple will face more market share los.
As for the desktop Macs... Apple hasn't updated their MacPro since ages. They're losing the video market, cad market and every high end pro user base. I love OSX but as long as Adobe doesn't use the OS X specific things in their CC suite you are from a business point of view better off with HP or Dell stations. Who offer a better value for money. Same for the iMacs. Hard drives with technology from the eighties and not to mention their video capabilities... Same for laptops... Seen the new ones from hp lately?
Premium means the best at a higher price for me. Apple today has premium prices with either yesterday technology or not market conform. This is making me sad because I've seen this before late nineties.
No reason for us here to buy the Apple TV too because it's not being able to use Siri in our native language as it is with the iPhone.
Time will tell and I've set my hopes on WWDC. If there isn't any compelling new stuff I'll foresee a justified further decline. Please Sog35, mark these words and you can slap again if I'm wrong by that time.
Premium means the best, for now only the prices are premium and they won't be able to keep that up for long.
I'd argue that while phones are selling it is best to maximize profits and invest in services that will be profitable when phone become low cost commodities.
At first desktops commanded high prices. Then they got commoditized. But near the same time laptops popped up, they commanded high prices. More recently laptops have become commoditized but smartphones command high prices. So when smartphones are commoditized there will be ANOTHER form factor that will command high prices.
My point is form factors get commoditized but not computing devices. There will always be computing devices that command high prices.
Besides iMac and Macbooks have not been commoditized. They still command premium prices. I don't see why iPhone/iPad won't continue to command high prices for the next 5 years.
Apple products will most certainly always be premium priced. The debut of the iPad Pro at a premium point price tells me they are going to maximize profits by catering to a premium market that may result in fewer units sold but will still probably take the majority of the profits from the tablet market. But the problem with selling less units (even at higher prices) is that margins shrink as volume component pricing can't be maintained. The same could conceivably happen to the phone, though it would take many many years of decreased sales for that to happen. But extremely high volume sales also has its own problems. One of my suspicions is that Apple keeps changing the materials the phones bodies are made of is because they buy in such high volumes they constrain the supply of those materials as the rest of the industry demands them as well and prices increase thereby decreasing their margins. It is also conceivable that future phones (or any devices for that matter) may require features demanded by the market that are more expensive to implement and also cut into the margins. Decreased margins on hardware sales is most easily compensated for by increasing service revenue.
Smart phone shipments in China grew by 1.3% year on year to over 104 million units in Q1 2016. Huawei, Vivo, Xiaomi, Oppo and Apple made up the top five, with Vivo taking second place for the first time. ‘Q1 was a promising start to 2016 for China. The Chinese market outperformed the global market, which contracted for the first time in its history. Buyers are looking for the best designs and most innovative user experiences, as well as great quality at the best price, and there are no signs of a slowdown in consumer spending. This means that vendors such as Apple and Lenovo suffered as they lacked new flagship models to tempt customers in the first three months of the year,’ said Jessie Ding, a Canalys Research Analyst based in Shanghai.
Apple struggled in China as iPhone shipments fell by around 15% on a year ago, compounding the effect of currency on revenue. ‘Local vendors, such as Huawei, Vivo and Oppo, are eating into the premium segment that Samsung and Apple considered their own,’ said Ding. Market leader Huawei shipped 16.5 million smart phones in Q1, a 48% year-on-year increase, while Xiaomi is under tremendous pressure to regain its growth momentum. ‘Huawei has delivered on its strategy to boost shipments in the premium segment and this has had a knock-on effect throughout its portfolio. But the market moves extremely fast and continues to be disrupted by new players, such as Meizu and LeEco, which are expanding with aggressive pricing models. But Xiaomi’s performance shows that companies that bet on low-income consumers to expand will fail to build loyalty.’
Comments
You don't read what I'm trying to tell you and I'm only expressing my concerns. This is mainly the reason why I'm trying to avoid posting here. You only can post positive otherwise you'll be put off like a troll.
If the market share of iPhone dropped from 18% to 15% in a single quarter and the absolute number of iPhones dropped from roughly 60M to 50M while the overall market dropped only a few percent, it is very difficult to assume that are more Android to iPhone switchers than vice versa. Tim Cook might tell otherwise, but facts remain facts.
A 3% drop in market share in a single quarter can only be reached, if Apple has lost some marketshare in premium segment. There might be a move form premium to mid or low-cost segment, but the impact of this can never be 3% of the whole market, without other vendors reporting that they have seen a clear shift from their top models to their low cost models. Samsung has declared in its Q1 results that the S7 is doing really well.
Christmas time is long gone, it is time to stop believing in Santa Claus.
As for the desktop Macs... Apple hasn't updated their MacPro since ages. They're losing the video market, cad market and every high end pro user base. I love OSX but as long as Adobe doesn't use the OS X specific things in their CC suite you are from a business point of view better off with HP or Dell stations. Who offer a better value for money. Same for the iMacs. Hard drives with technology from the eighties and not to mention their video capabilities... Same for laptops... Seen the new ones from hp lately?
Premium means the best at a higher price for me. Apple today has premium prices with either yesterday technology or not market conform.
This is making me sad because I've seen this before late nineties.
No reason for us here to buy the Apple TV too because it's not being able to use Siri in our native language as it is with the iPhone.
Time will tell and I've set my hopes on WWDC. If there isn't any compelling new stuff I'll foresee a justified further decline. Please Sog35, mark these words and you can slap again if I'm wrong by that time.
Premium means the best, for now only the prices are premium and they won't be able to keep that up for long.
Smart phone shipments in China grew by 1.3% year on year to over 104 million units in Q1 2016. Huawei, Vivo, Xiaomi, Oppo and Apple made up the top five, with Vivo taking second place for the first time. ‘Q1 was a promising start to 2016 for China. The Chinese market outperformed the global market, which contracted for the first time in its history. Buyers are looking for the best designs and most innovative user experiences, as well as great quality at the best price, and there are no signs of a slowdown in consumer spending. This means that vendors such as Apple and Lenovo suffered as they lacked new flagship models to tempt customers in the first three months of the year,’ said Jessie Ding, a Canalys Research Analyst based in Shanghai.
Apple struggled in China as iPhone shipments fell by around 15% on a year ago, compounding the effect of currency on revenue. ‘Local vendors, such as Huawei, Vivo and Oppo, are eating into the premium segment that Samsung and Apple considered their own,’ said Ding. Market leader Huawei shipped 16.5 million smart phones in Q1, a 48% year-on-year increase, while Xiaomi is under tremendous pressure to regain its growth momentum. ‘Huawei has delivered on its strategy to boost shipments in the premium segment and this has had a knock-on effect throughout its portfolio. But the market moves extremely fast and continues to be disrupted by new players, such as Meizu and LeEco, which are expanding with aggressive pricing models. But Xiaomi’s performance shows that companies that bet on low-income consumers to expand will fail to build loyalty.’