Citing concerns in China, activist investor Carl Icahn no longer owns shares of Apple

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  • Reply 81 of 116
    sog35 said:

    Based on sales/profits?  Sales/profits are SHARPLY down this quarter. And will sharply down AGAIN next quarter.

    You should look for more of a trend over a few years.
    iPhone 6 plus was an anomaly. 3 years of pent up demand. Nobody could have bested that.
    Compared to 2014 profit and sales are much higher.

    -isn't that what you were saying yesterday?
    It's like having a burger joint that averages about $5K a day in sales. Then out of the blue one day, 8 tour buses stop and they do $9K is sales. The next day nothing out of the ordinary happens but they do $7K and the manager complains because sales were down $2K and swears the place is going out of business. 
    edited April 2016 loquiturbkerkayai46nolamacguycalipalomine
  • Reply 82 of 116
    The guy is lying to protect his ego.

    Carl Icahn buys up large volumes of stock in highly liquid companies then uses that clout to interfere with the board in order to cut large one-time dividends. Everyone should remember his late-2013 share holder proposal to gut Apple's piggy bank for his direct benefit.

    The proposal was shot down, and rightly so, it was an entirely moronic idea that could potentially hamstring the company and was ignorant to how Apple holds it's reserves.

    Icahn would have divested at an opportune moment not long after that, so he could try squeezing another company. This would have been well before the roll out of Apple's China strategy, and certainly far before a blip on China-born earnings.
    VisualSeedai46cali
  • Reply 83 of 116
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,303member
    sog35 said:
    damonf said:

    No, Apple's Board of Directors authorized the buyback, just like they authorize dividend payouts.  Tim Cook alone cannot spend the company's money on stock buybacks.  From the earnings call transcript, I give you Luca Maestri:

    Once again, we are allocating the majority of the expansion of the program to share repurchases, given our strong confidence in Apple's future, and the value we see in our stock. The Board has increased the share repurchase authorization by $35 billion, raising it from the current $140 billion level to $175 billion. We will also continue to net share settle, less the employee restricted stock units.

    And Tim Cook is on THE BOARD also. One of 8 members.

    come on dude. get real. 

    I'm all for get rid of the board also. Its full of clowns and idiots who know nothing about the current tech enviroment and probably just let Cook do what he wants.

    The bottom line is Tim Cook is responsible for the $115 billion waste of buyback. It falls on HIM. PERIOD.


    You're a truly ignorant person. One person has never run Apple's board. Then again, you wouldn't know a goddamn thing about it since you've never worked there.
    nolamacguyVisualSeedtallest skilsingularitydamonfpalomine
  • Reply 84 of 116
    tkell31tkell31 Posts: 216member
    sog35 said:
    And Tim Cook is on THE BOARD also. One of 8 members.

    come on dude. get real. 

    I'm all for get rid of the board also. Its full of clowns and idiots who know nothing about the current tech enviroment and probably just let Cook do what he wants.

    The bottom line is Tim Cook is responsible for the $115 billion waste of buyback. It falls on HIM. PERIOD.


    You're a truly ignorant person. One person has never run Apple's board. Then again, you wouldn't know a goddamn thing about it since you've never worked there.
    Like you have?  How much does the board make to innovate a larger screen.  in Cook's 4+ years that's about the sum of his impact on the company.  
  • Reply 85 of 116
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,194member
    tkell31 said:
    You're a truly ignorant person. One person has never run Apple's board. Then again, you wouldn't know a goddamn thing about it since you've never worked there.
    Like you have?  How much does the board make to innovate a larger screen.  in Cook's 4+ years that's about the sum of his impact on the company.  
    Between the launch of iPhone and Steve's death what was his impact on the company other than a big iPod touch that is now being cannibalized by larger screen phones?
  • Reply 86 of 116
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    tkell31 said:
    You're a truly ignorant person. One person has never run Apple's board. Then again, you wouldn't know a goddamn thing about it since you've never worked there.
    Like you have?  How much does the board make to innovate a larger screen.  in Cook's 4+ years that's about the sum of his impact on the company.  
    your posts show an ignorance of how companies work. boards and even CEOs don't design products (other than Jobs, which was a rarity). boards and CEOs set directives; executives work to implement the directives. designers and engineers build. 

    if you don't think Cook's management had a very direct affect on the company (eg, the ability to move a shit ton of product) then you should stick to your lemonade stand or whatever it is you do. you have no place in the corporate world. 
    bkerkaydamonf
  • Reply 87 of 116
    Apple's issue is WallStreet.  When Apple's mkt cap was $300 billion they discounted it due to law of large numbers.  When earnings were increasing 60-70% per year they discounted it and said growth can't continue at that rate.  Now that iPhone sales are slowing they discount and say peak iPhone.   Any other stock that was buying back this much stock would be 50% higher since the plan started.  Apple is actually lower.  
    Apple does have a play in this because they do not refute any rumors.  It is illogical for a company with 200b in bank who earns 50-60b per year to be valued at 500b.  They could have that in cash in 5 years with no growth.  
    palomine
  • Reply 88 of 116
    jonljonl Posts: 210member
    It is illogical for a company with 200b in bank who earns 50-60b per year to be valued at 500b.  They could have that in cash in 5 years with no growth.  
    Of course, it's discounted due to the uncertainty inherent in your tacit assumptions.
  • Reply 89 of 116
    A couple things that are revealing with Carl's investments.

    1. Upside with Apple isn't there. He sold all his stock. He is also a billionaire who wrote books on how to make money, not loose it.

    2. Carl stated that he had issues with China. Still, It's interesting that China recognizes Apple's monopoly power, and blocked it. However, people in the US don't want to admit Apple's monopoly in media distribution. In physical distribution, there were many competitors, Tower Records, Virgin Megastores, BestBuy, SoundWarehouse, Blockbuster to name a few. Today, there's just Apple. China is right to protect established businesses.

    Overall, it seems that the "Post-PC-era" marketing concept has run out of steam. I wonder what Ichan is investing into now.. I wonder what he believes is safer (and a better investment) than Apple.
    edited April 2016
  • Reply 90 of 116
    tkell31 said:
    You're a truly ignorant person. One person has never run Apple's board. Then again, you wouldn't know a goddamn thing about it since you've never worked there.
    Like you have?    


    I'm not sure about Apple, but he was at NeXT.

    tallest skil
  • Reply 91 of 116
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,764member
    Hmm... this could be the news behind the news. Surely Icahn leaked this beforehand and it multiplied the selloff in AAPL. He can't keep his mouth shut when it comes to his own stock manipulation tactics.

    If Apple continues the buyback, they should be buying it all back now when it's undervalued.
    Yeah, god forbid they spend that money on, you know, developing a revolutionary new battery technology or on figuring out a way to fit two ports on the new Macbook. 

    Yes, and while you're about it, Tim, where's that warp engine! Worrying about LGBT issues instead of cracking faster-than-light travel!

    Apple's R&D spending has been steadily increasing for years. How do you know they're not working on new battery technology, or do you think that revolutionary new products just appear like magic?
  • Reply 92 of 116
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,764member

    sog35 said:

    I exited at $107 well before Icahn did, clearly after toda'ys move the stock is probably heading towards $90 at which point my buddy  Icahn and myself will be buyers again!
    What is your price target?  $90? 

    I'm thinking of buying at $88


    You should probably sell all your shares in everything.

    You flip one way then flip the other, sometimes in the same post.

    It's pretty clear you're in over your head.
    singularitydamonfpalomine
  • Reply 93 of 116
    damonfdamonf Posts: 217member
    sog35 said:
      I disagree. Microsoft has had horrible sales peformance the last 2 years. Sales have been shrinking at an alarming rate.  But their stock is still doing great. Why?

    Because the CEO has a clear message and vision about Microsofts future.  Apple does not. Tim Cook is a horrible CEO for the Apple of today.


    HAHAHAHAHAHA.  You're using Microsoft as your bellwether example?  Oh my God.  Let's look at the STELLAR job Microsoft has been doing lately:

    - Nagging the hell out of users to upgrade Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 to upgrade to Windows 10.  So much so that an on-air weather forecast gets interrupted by a Windows 10 upgrade dialog on a running production machine.

    - No clear understanding if the free Windows 10 upgrade will continue beyond the self-declared 1-year end date coming up this summer.  And is Microsoft going to yank the rug out from under all the free upgraders and go to a subscription model?

    - Rename corporate IM system "Lync" to "Skype for Business".  Has no relationship to existing Skype, which has been plagued by sign-in and calling issues.  No clear path of integration. Mass-confusion in corporate offices because people don't get that there's a difference between "Skype for Business" and "Skype" on their personal smartphones.

    - Confusion as to which functions of Microsoft Office are indeed available across the PC desktop version vs the online Office 365 vs Windows Phone and iOS vs Mac OS.  Let's also not forget the "free 1 TB of OneDrive" offer that got yanked from all existing Office 365 subscribers.

    - The utter disaster that is Windows 10 Mobile, universal apps, 3% smartphone market share, an Android app porter that was so good they had to yank it lest developers stop developing universal apps and instead only port Android apps as-is, the inability to get carriers to offer Windows phones, the massive waste of money in purchasing Nokia, app developers calling it quits and pulling their own existing Windows phone apps..... need I go on?

    Yeah, Microsoft really does have their act together.  Where is the clear message and vision in all of this???  The only vision I see is mass-confusion.  Why don't you sell your Apple stock and buy Microsoft?

    palomine
  • Reply 94 of 116
    damonfdamonf Posts: 217member
    sog35 said:


    But if your answer is software and services then Cook was go. He must resign. Cook knows virtually nothing about software and services.  He never ran a services company or built one. He has always been about Hardware: for decades at IBM and at Apple.


    Are you just absolutely blind?  Software: what does Apple need to get into that they aren't already in?  Do you want them to start charging again for Mac OS upgrades just to make a few more dollars here and there, yet disincentivising users to move to the latest version?  And what's this about services?  Did you not read the quarterly results or listen to the earnings teleconference?  Services is at its highest it has ever been.  iCloud pricing was dropped to make it more competitive (sorry if that disappoints you), Apple Music started up, now with 13 million paying subs (doesn't count any free ones still in their 3-month trial), the iPhone Upgrade Program with built-in AppleCare (extremely profitable, as it is basically an insurance program with relatively few claims-to-subscribers). 

    Your hatred of Cook blinds you.

  • Reply 95 of 116
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,107member
    tkell31 said:
    sog35 said:
    And Tim Cook is on THE BOARD also. One of 8 members.

    come on dude. get real. 

    I'm all for get rid of the board also. Its full of clowns and idiots who know nothing about the current tech enviroment and probably just let Cook do what he wants.

    The bottom line is Tim Cook is responsible for the $115 billion waste of buyback. It falls on HIM. PERIOD.


    You're a truly ignorant person. One person has never run Apple's board. Then again, you wouldn't know a goddamn thing about it since you've never worked there.
    Like you have?  How much does the board make to innovate a larger screen.  in Cook's 4+ years that's about the sum of his impact on the company.  
    IIRC he has worked for Apple (or was it NeXT). Could be mistaken, it's Friday. 
  • Reply 96 of 116
    bobschlobbobschlob Posts: 1,074member
    damonf said:
    sog35 said:


    HAHAHAHAHAHA.  You're using Microsoft as your bellwether example?  Oh my God.  Let's look at the STELLAR job Microsoft has been doing lately:

    - Nagging the hell out of users to upgrade Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 to upgrade to Windows 10.  So much so that an on-air weather forecast gets interrupted by a Windows 10 upgrade dialog on a running production machine.

    - No clear understanding if the free Windows 10 upgrade will continue beyond the self-declared 1-year end date coming up this summer.  And is Microsoft going to yank the rug out from under all the free upgraders and go to a subscription model?

    - Rename corporate IM system "Lync" to "Skype for Business".  Has no relationship to existing Skype, which has been plagued by sign-in and calling issues.  No clear path of integration. Mass-confusion in corporate offices because people don't get that there's a difference between "Skype for Business" and "Skype" on their personal smartphones.

    - Confusion as to which functions of Microsoft Office are indeed available across the PC desktop version vs the online Office 365 vs Windows Phone and iOS vs Mac OS.  Let's also not forget the "free 1 TB of OneDrive" offer that got yanked from all existing Office 365 subscribers.

    - The utter disaster that is Windows 10 Mobile, universal apps, 3% smartphone market share, an Android app porter that was so good they had to yank it lest developers stop developing universal apps and instead only port Android apps as-is, the inability to get carriers to offer Windows phones, the massive waste of money in purchasing Nokia, app developers calling it quits and pulling their own existing Windows phone apps..... need I go on?

    Yeah, Microsoft really does have their act together.  Where is the clear message and vision in all of this???  The only vision I see is mass-confusion.  Why don't you sell your Apple stock and buy Microsoft?

    Wow damon, I've never seen someone spend so many words showing that he has totally missed the main thrust of another poster's point.
    Zoooom!  Right over the ol' head. LOL
    edited April 2016
  • Reply 97 of 116
    ac1234ac1234 Posts: 138member
    damonf said:
    sog35 said:
    Me being quiet won't change the facts.

    Tim Cook wasted $115 BILLION in shareholder money in the buyback. 
    He did it because of pressure from Ichan.
    The stock has gained NOTHING in valuation from that waste of money.

    Before the buyback Apples was worth over $700 billion.
    Now after wasting $115 billion in cash its worth a pathetic $530 billion.

    But go live in a fantasy world all you want.

    All I know is Cook authorized this $115 billion buyback and the stock is worth $170 billion less.

    No, Apple's Board of Directors authorized the buyback, just like they authorize dividend payouts.  Tim Cook alone cannot spend the company's money on stock buybacks.  From the earnings call transcript, I give you Luca Maestri:

    Once again, we are allocating the majority of the expansion of the program to share repurchases, given our strong confidence in Apple's future, and the value we see in our stock. The Board has increased the share repurchase authorization by $35 billion, raising it from the current $140 billion level to $175 billion. We will also continue to net share settle, less the employee restricted stock units.

    So you are gulping down that message LOL - waste of money.
  • Reply 98 of 116
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,970member
    sog35 said:
    sflocal said:
    Oh... you bring up "FACTS"??  Hmmm.. let's see..

    Like the FACT you promised self banning for a year when you were WRONG about that $150 price at end of 2015 and after us having to endure all your childish rants and rhetoric?

    Tim Cook is best CEO for Apple.  Period.  I'm invested for the long term in AAPL and I'm happy with his performance as CEO.  I want a higher stock price too, but I realize Apple is an easily-manipulated stock that is out of Tim Cook's control REGARDLESS of who the CEO is.  All you want is a CEO that pays lip-service to the media that would do nothing to improve Apple the company in the long term.

    The only one living in a fantasy world is you, and others that want to play AAPL not as an investor, but as a crap-shooter.  You don't like it, sell your AAPL stock, leave, and shut up.  Really, the constant whining spewing out from you is just pathetic.  Do you not have anything better to do like maybe go outside?
    Best CEO for Apple? Based on what?

    Based on performance? The stock has constantly been undervalued with Cook as CEO.  For crying out loud its valued lower than IBM, which has had a DECADE of shrinking sales.

    Based on products? Apple has not released a mind blowing new product or an updated to a product since Jobs died. All they did was make the phone bigger and made it gold. There is no excitement at Apple right now.

    Based on sales/profits?  Sales/profits are SHARPLY down this quarter. And will sharply down AGAIN next quarter.

    Based on strategic planing? People have been talking about Apple being too hardware reliant for YEARS. Now Apple is more reliant on iPhone than EVER. Where is the growth in services? 

    Based on Capital Allocation. FAiled.  Buyback has failed. Acquisitions have been crap at best. And now Apple has $60 billion in debt and $250 billion in cash doing nothing.

    To be frank any decent CEO could have shown growth the last 3 years at Apple. The product/brand was just that powerful. But now the momentum of Jobs is about to end. We need a new CEO who can stand on his own.
    Question is, who is that CEO? As long as everyone keeps being compared to Jobs, no one will be capable. Jobs had vision. He had the uncanny ability to see what's coming around the corner and pivot / change his mind and then have laser focus.  Who else has that?
  • Reply 99 of 116
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,970member
    sog35 said:
    Give it a rest Sog. It was Steve Jobs who decided Tim Cook was the right man for the job. I'll trust his judgement over the sniping of nobodies on the Internet and social media.
    Agree Tim Cook was the right man for the job to succeed Jobs.

    Apple needed a guy to build the supply chain and make it possible to sell 230 million iPhones a year. They needed a supply chain genius like Cook. They needed a guy who knew how to maximize efficentcy in China. But hardware sales has peaked. Cook may have been the man for the job from 2011-2015.  But not anymore.  The company has MAXED OUT as a hardware company and they need to expand into software/services/advertising.  Cook has ZERO experience in those skills. That's why he needs to resign.

    Cook did a great job and will always be remembered.

    But he isn't the right CEO for Apple now.
    "But he isn't the right CEO for Apple now."

    Agreed.  Apple needs to invest heavily in services: AI / big data / cloud infrastructure / cloud platform, etc..  If it can't do it fast enough from the ground up, then acquire a company like DropBox or Box as a start.
  • Reply 100 of 116
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,970member
    sog35 said:
    Question is, who is that CEO? As long as everyone keeps being compared to Jobs, no one will be capable. Jobs had vision. He had the uncanny ability to see what's coming around the corner and pivot / change his mind and then have laser focus.  Who else has that?
    Apple does not need a product genius like Steve Jobs.  They need a master of services and data/advertising. That is the next frontier of growth for Apple. Data is king.

    Apple has done the hard part already. They have amassed a BILLION USER BASE.  All they need to do is monitize it.

    I know Cook keeps preaching the importance of PRIVACY and NOT DATA MINING. But its falling on deaf ears.........especially to his CUSTOMERS.

    90% of iOS users use Facebook and Google Apps
    http://www.mobidia.com/data-highlights/percentage-of-users-who-use-facebook-and-google-apps

    Its obvious that iOS users don't care about privacy as much as Cook does.

    Apple needs to start to build its adverstising/data mining empire NOW.
    Apple needs to announce a $150-$200 billion investment in services for the next 10 years.  Every cent of extra cash needs to be used to build their cloud infrastructer, search business, live video, social platforms. This will require many acquisitions and hiring big time talent. But this is the future of Apple.

    Facebook/Google combine are worth almost $850 billion. And both are getting rich off of the backs of iOS devices. Its time for Apple to monitize their user base and not allow parasites like Facebook/Google to make inroads.
    "Apple needs to start to build its adverstising/data mining empire NOW."

    As much as I agree, I don't think Apple would've let go a huge chunk of their iAd team if it has any intent of doing that.
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