I don't know of anyone who has bought a Surface Pro (3 or 4) that bought it to use a tablet. They bought it because they thought it was (supposed to be) a slick, ultra portable laptop replacement. A common theme has also been a lot of regret when it turns out to be not what they thought. For a while it was people getting Windows RT and not understanding why nothing was compatible. Now that time has passed, and its more I/O woes, and random quirks this hardware exhibits that other OEM laptops do not.
Source: I work with a lot of people that purchase their own equipment for work.
If those people are complaining about Windows RT, they don't own a Surface 3 or 4. They own just a Surface 2 since RT never existed on a Surface 3, Pro 3 or Pro 4. So it seems you probably don't know a lot of people who own a Surface Pro.
I love my Surface Pro 3. It's the best computer experience I've had. I love the combination of touch screen, stylus input and keyboard/trackpad. When I need to print, I plug in the USB cable and print (I could go wireless but I don't). I can install real applications and not settle for inferior app versions (or often nothing at all). And as someone changing careers to marine biology, there are quite a few applications that don't have a Mac version. And since it uses SSD, the OS and applications start up super quick. The only real quirks I've experienced were when I first bought it and hadn't yet installed the available updates. Once that was done, everything has been good.
Repeat after me, even more are not like you which is why they require more than email and office docs.
Do you have any facts to back up that bold statement?
There are many industries and jobs that don't require heavy duty coding and graphic programs: Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Police, Drivers, Accountants, ect.
Sure there are plenty of jobs that don't require heavy duty coding, however I fundamentally have a problem with Apple calling devices "Pro" models without any real changes to the software. While some may disagree iOS hasn't really changed much over the last few years, it still lacks even a decent or basic file system. Whats the point of having an iPad with specs as good as a Macbook yet can't take advantage of the same software? I have a 12.9 iPad Pro and I use it often but rarely for anything related to work.
Even those that use Photoshop won't use an iPad Pro over a Mac because the software is nothing more than a dumbed down version. The days of Apple being able to get away with simply changing the size of something or making it thinner are over or haven't you noticed AAPL this week?
If Apple is going to tag something as a "Pro" model then IMHO it needs to be running OS X not iOS.
I know people are going to say "Apple will never run OS X on an iPad. Yeah Apple was also never going too make a bigger iPhone, the iPad was never going to be bigger than 9.7 in or smaller for that matter. There is nothing stopping Apple from running OS X on an iPad Pro. At least then people will truly have a laptop alternative.
As someone that is an engineer I'm always looking for parity. If the hardware is getting faster and the hardware specs are getting better, if the software isn't maturing at the same rate then it's a waste.
Also you kind of proved my point. The industries you mentioned, there aren't any of them that have mass adoption of the iPad over traditional laptops. Any Police car I have seen always has a laptop in it, daughter is a Nurse and Wife has been in education for over 15 years, not an iPad to be found.
iPad Pro has literally replaced my wife's laptop. It really is an amazing device.
The surface is a compromised product because it is not a good tablet at all. I have no idea why someone would buy a Surface instead of an iPad Pro or Macbook.
The Surface is running Windows 10 and can function in place of both an iPad Pro or MacBook. You make it sound so black and white, like a hybrid device must be a terrible solution. Versatility, performance and capabilities are what makes the Surface unique. Often it will be up to the user to best utilize a device's capabilities in its respective form factor.
With iOS maturing it won't be long before surface is obsolete.
MS should enjoy all their sales/appeal now because iOS isn't slowing down.
Part of the Surface's appeal is the ability to run just about any productivity app. Not even OS X has that level of parity. I don't see iOS exceeding that anytime soon.
iPad Pro has literally replaced my wife's laptop. It really is an amazing device.
The surface is a compromised product because it is not a good tablet at all. I have no idea why someone would buy a Surface instead of an iPad Pro or Macbook.
The Surface is running Windows 10 and can function in place of both an iPad Pro or MacBook. You make it sound so black and white, like a hybrid device must be a terrible solution. Versatility, performance and capabilities are what makes the Surface unique. Often it will be up to the user to best utilize a device's capabilities in its respective form factor.
I wouldn't trade in my MacBook or my iPad Pro for a surface pro.
Do you have any facts to back up that bold statement?
There are many industries and jobs that don't require heavy duty coding and graphic programs: Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Police, Drivers, Accountants, ect.
Sure there are plenty of jobs that don't require heavy duty coding, however I fundamentally have a problem with Apple calling devices "Pro" models without any real changes to the software. While some may disagree iOS hasn't really changed much over the last few years, it still lacks even a decent or basic file system. Whats the point of having an iPad with specs as good as a Macbook yet can't take advantage of the same software? I have a 12.9 iPad Pro and I use it often but rarely for anything related to work.
Even those that use Photoshop won't use an iPad Pro over a Mac because the software is nothing more than a dumbed down version. The days of Apple being able to get away with simply changing the size of something or making it thinner are over or haven't you noticed AAPL this week?
If Apple is going to tag something as a "Pro" model then IMHO it needs to be running OS X not iOS.
I know people are going to say "Apple will never run OS X on an iPad. Yeah Apple was also never going too make a bigger iPhone, the iPad was never going to be bigger than 9.7 in or smaller for that matter. There is nothing stopping Apple from running OS X on an iPad Pro. At least then people will truly have a laptop alternative.
As someone that is an engineer I'm always looking for parity. If the hardware is getting faster and the hardware specs are getting better, if the software isn't maturing at the same rate then it's a waste.
Also you kind of proved my point. The industries you mentioned, there aren't any of them that have mass adoption of the iPad over traditional laptops. Any Police car I have seen always has a laptop in it, daughter is a Nurse and Wife has been in education for over 15 years, not an iPad to be found.
1) There are no real changes to the software between a surface and a surface PRO. No real software changes between a MacBook and a MacBook PRO. PRO just means bigger or more powerful. Much in the same way that AIR means lighter and thinner. You know, like the iPad AIR or the MacBook AIR. Not to mention mini meaning smaller. Like the Mac MINI or the iPad MINI or the iPod MINI before the nano came out. 2) Apple's never going to run OS X on an iPad because iOS is simply more popular with far better/more third party support, already optimized for touch, gives apple the level of control that they've always wanted, runs on a thimble, and, if anything, we'll see an ios-based desktop machine before we see an OS X tablet. You're essentially expecting apple play the weaker hand, simply because a bunch of people that are continually wrong, say they should. Does not compute.
"There is nothing stopping Apple from running OS X on an iPad Pro"
How about the fact that Intel mobile processors are kinda poor at being mobile in comparison to ARM processors? So, if apple were to switch OS X to the iPad, it'll have almost NO software because x86 (CISC) software won't run natively on ARM (RISC) architecture. That means, your grand idea of running photoshop on an iPad through OS X won't happen, whoops #1. Then there's the processing overhead involved. Whoops #2. And, because of whoops #1, they'll be essentially snatching the rug from under their OS X AND iOS developers once again. Whoops #3. Then there's the fact that Apple would have to completely flip OS X's interface onto its head to make it work with touch. Whoops #4. As an engineer you should have known all of this. It's not as simple as installing OS X on an IPad and calling it a day. Even if you did that, none of the existing software would work without some really painful software implementation to emulate x86 architecture. Conversely, they can't just make them x86 tablets because Intel doesn't do mobile well and even if they did, Apple would be shooting all of the third party developers on their more popular platform square in the gut in favor of a less popular, less profitable platform. Does not compute.
Apple has a long history of suddenly changing its architecture and such. Each time it was painful for everyone involved and Apple had to basically pull a rabbit out of a hat to make it work because they HAD to make those changes. They don't HAVE to push their less popular platform. Macs are doing well enough but osx doesn't have anywhere near the install base or third party' support that iOS has, so OS X on a tablet won't happen. If you really want an OS X tablet, buy an axiotron modbook or invent a time machine, go back in time to the late 80's and make sure that macs are so popular that iOS never gets invented.
Every Surface Pro users I know bought theirs for work, and uses it as an ultra-portable laptop, not as a tablet. It's always in landscape mode, keyboard attached, propped up on its kickstand, running the classic desktop apps.
the Surface's appeal is the ability to run just about any productivity app
As suddenly newton's observations hint at and the champions of running "real apps" on the Surface unwittingly confirm, the Surface is used mainly as a Windows laptop that happens to have a detachable touchscreen.
There's no incentive for developers to create touchscreen apps for the Surface when "real apps" work on the Surface.
What does a developer have to gain from the extra time, resource and support demands of making their "real apps" work with the Surface touchscreen?
Part of the Surface's appeal is the ability to run just about any productivity app. Not even OS X has that level of parity. I don't see iOS exceeding that anytime soon.
You're confusing ability with availability. With a little tweaking OS X can run software originally written for other UNIXes and Linuxes, so arguably OS X is more able than Windows. Windows thanks to its large marketshare benefits from the increased likelihood of niche software being available for it.
I am only interested in discussing with actual Apple users and Apple fans. I have no interest at all in what any trolls, losers and the severely deranged have to say about any Apple products.
What astonishes me is theirneed to criticize everything and anything Apple. It's disturbing their psychology is such that they feel so aggrieved about people being satisfied with Apple products. That in itself suggest what they're using can't be good in itself, or at least, good enough for them.
Every Surface Pro users I know bought theirs for work, and uses it as an ultra-portable laptop, not as a tablet. It's always in landscape mode, keyboard attached, propped up on its kickstand, running the classic desktop apps.
As suddenly newton's observations hint at and the champions of running "real apps" on the Surface unwittingly confirm, the Surface is used mainly as a Windows laptop that happens to have a detachable touchscreen.
There's no incentive for developers to create touchscreen apps for the Surface when "real apps" work on the Surface.
What does a developer have to gain from the extra time, resource and support demands of making their "real apps" work with the Surface touchscreen?
Those same developers aren't making iOS versions of those apps either so the point is moot. And their apps already work with the touchscreen. No special development is required for that. They just aren't optimized for it.
You can't run any kind of scripting in iOS so that makes it worthless in lots of use cases. You could never have a fully functional version of ArcGIS with that limitation. Or MatLab. And as was already stated by others, any sort of programming or web development is a no go unless you want to write a bunch of text files and hope they actually work when you get them to an OS that will allow them to be compiled and run. And anything beyond basic word processing is a major headache in iOS I've found.
You buy the tool tool that fits the job. I enjoy my iPad for basic tasks: web browsing, wasting a few minutes on games, checking email, social media. But the Surface Pro has proven itself to be a very capable tool for my needs. Yes, it mostly gets used as an ultra portable laptop but I also like having the touchscreen and stylus. I constantly mix keyboard, trackpad and touchscreen input. And I liked being to add storage space after the fact for about $20 instead of the $100 Apple would have charged.
What astonishes me is theirneed to criticize everything and anything Apple. It's disturbing their psychology is such that they feel so aggrieved about people being satisfied with Apple products. That in itself suggest what they're using can't be good in itself, or at least, good enough for them.
Doesn't that also work in reverse for all the people here who feel the need to bash anything that isn't made by Apple? Seriously, isn't this very article just click bait for people to beat their chests and laugh about how Micro$oft sux?
Nobody here is specifically going to Windows forums to bash Windows or Microsoft. This article is to confirm what everyone already knows. The iPad outsells the surface.
I'm not a Professional user. But I sure do love my new 256GB Cellular Space Gray 9.7" iPad Pro. Seems like this one could be like new for many years to come. I can't imagine what could be added to make it better other than new systems each year. And I say this as someone who has been buying new iPads and new iPhones every year for the past six and eight respectively. I don't see how the hardware can get any better than now. But I do see how every older iPad owner will happily upgrade to this model. I skipped the 12.9" iPad Pro because I think it's too big. But I would welcome a new A9x or A10x mini iPad Pro this Fall. And I can see how the second 12.9" model with all the Spring 2016 9.7" improvements inside will make it a more compelling choice too.
But if all the above hardware is available by November, it's going to be dazzling new software that takes the staring role into 2017 and beyond. I mean it's always been about great software. But this 2015-2016 A9(x) 2GB platform for both iPhone and iPad really sets the stage for some amazing software breakthroughs that older hardware just couldn't support. This feels like a turning point in hardware development that makes me think my years of buying the next new model are over. In my mind perfection has been achieved on both the iPhone 6s Plus and the 9.7" iPad Pro. And I already know I'm not interested in an iPhone that has no 3.5mm analog audio jack.
Do you have any facts to back up that bold statement?
There are many industries and jobs that don't require heavy duty coding and graphic programs: Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Police, Drivers, Accountants, ect.
Sure there are plenty of jobs that don't require heavy duty coding, however I fundamentally have a problem with Apple calling devices "Pro" models without any real changes to the software. While some may disagree iOS hasn't really changed much over the last few years, it still lacks even a decent or basic file system. Whats the point of having an iPad with specs as good as a Macbook yet can't take advantage of the same software? I have a 12.9 iPad Pro and I use it often but rarely for anything related to work.
Even those that use Photoshop won't use an iPad Pro over a Mac because the software is nothing more than a dumbed down version. The days of Apple being able to get away with simply changing the size of something or making it thinner are over or haven't you noticed AAPL this week?
If Apple is going to tag something as a "Pro" model then IMHO it needs to be running OS X not iOS.
I know people are going to say "Apple will never run OS X on an iPad. Yeah Apple was also never going too make a bigger iPhone, the iPad was never going to be bigger than 9.7 in or smaller for that matter. There is nothing stopping Apple from running OS X on an iPad Pro. At least then people will truly have a laptop alternative.
As someone that is an engineer I'm always looking for parity. If the hardware is getting faster and the hardware specs are getting better, if the software isn't maturing at the same rate then it's a waste.
Also you kind of proved my point. The industries you mentioned, there aren't any of them that have mass adoption of the iPad over traditional laptops. Any Police car I have seen always has a laptop in it, daughter is a Nurse and Wife has been in education for over 15 years, not an iPad to be found.
Your right. iOS is holding the iPad back. OS X runs fine on a iPad, I know that because I run it all the time via a vnc client. Even with considerable lag because of vnc it's usable; with a bigger screen (iPad Pro) and a few tricks a la safari for iPad and without the lag (no vnc) it will be extremely usable and fast (like a MacBook Pro). Hardware wise Apple only has to adapt RAM to 8 GB or more (but 4 GB is usable with only one app open) and add a thunderbolt port (no biggie I would say, if Intel protests Apple can buy them with some of the money from its share buyback program).
Comments
Theyre all PCs/tablets.
Even those that use Photoshop won't use an iPad Pro over a Mac because the software is nothing more than a dumbed down version. The days of Apple being able to get away with simply changing the size of something or making it thinner are over or haven't you noticed AAPL this week?
If Apple is going to tag something as a "Pro" model then IMHO it needs to be running OS X not iOS.
I know people are going to say "Apple will never run OS X on an iPad. Yeah Apple was also never going too make a bigger iPhone, the iPad was never going to be bigger than 9.7 in or smaller for that matter. There is nothing stopping Apple from running OS X on an iPad Pro. At least then people will truly have a laptop alternative.
As someone that is an engineer I'm always looking for parity. If the hardware is getting faster and the hardware specs are getting better, if the software isn't maturing at the same rate then it's a waste.
Also you kind of proved my point. The industries you mentioned, there aren't any of them that have mass adoption of the iPad over traditional laptops. Any Police car I have seen always has a laptop in it, daughter is a Nurse and Wife has been in education for over 15 years, not an iPad to be found.
The Surface is running Windows 10 and can function in place of both an iPad Pro or MacBook. You make it sound so black and white, like a hybrid device must be a terrible solution. Versatility, performance and capabilities are what makes the Surface unique. Often it will be up to the user to best utilize a device's capabilities in its respective form factor.
1) There are no real changes to the software between a surface and a surface PRO. No real software changes between a MacBook and a MacBook PRO. PRO just means bigger or more powerful. Much in the same way that AIR means lighter and thinner. You know, like the iPad AIR or the MacBook AIR. Not to mention mini meaning smaller. Like the Mac MINI or the iPad MINI or the iPod MINI before the nano came out.
2) Apple's never going to run OS X on an iPad because iOS is simply more popular with far better/more third party support, already optimized for touch, gives apple the level of control that they've always wanted, runs on a thimble, and, if anything, we'll see an ios-based desktop machine before we see an OS X tablet. You're essentially expecting apple play the weaker hand, simply because a bunch of people that are continually wrong, say they should. Does not compute.
"There is nothing stopping Apple from running OS X on an iPad Pro"
How about the fact that Intel mobile processors are kinda poor at being mobile in comparison to ARM processors? So, if apple were to switch OS X to the iPad, it'll have almost NO software because x86 (CISC) software won't run natively on ARM (RISC) architecture. That means, your grand idea of running photoshop on an iPad through OS X won't happen, whoops #1. Then there's the processing overhead involved. Whoops #2. And, because of whoops #1, they'll be essentially snatching the rug from under their OS X AND iOS developers once again. Whoops #3. Then there's the fact that Apple would have to completely flip OS X's interface onto its head to make it work with touch. Whoops #4. As an engineer you should have known all of this. It's not as simple as installing OS X on an IPad and calling it a day. Even if you did that, none of the existing software would work without some really painful software implementation to emulate x86 architecture. Conversely, they can't just make them x86 tablets because Intel doesn't do mobile well and even if they did, Apple would be shooting all of the third party developers on their more popular platform square in the gut in favor of a less popular, less profitable platform. Does not compute.
Apple has a long history of suddenly changing its architecture and such. Each time it was painful for everyone involved and Apple had to basically pull a rabbit out of a hat to make it work because they HAD to make those changes. They don't HAVE to push their less popular platform. Macs are doing well enough but osx doesn't have anywhere near the install base or third party' support that iOS has, so OS X on a tablet won't happen. If you really want an OS X tablet, buy an axiotron modbook or invent a time machine, go back in time to the late 80's and make sure that macs are so popular that iOS never gets invented.
As suddenly newton's observations hint at and the champions of running "real apps" on the Surface unwittingly confirm, the Surface is used mainly as a Windows laptop that happens to have a detachable touchscreen. There's no incentive for developers to create touchscreen apps for the Surface when "real apps" work on the Surface. What does a developer have to gain from the extra time, resource and support demands of making their "real apps" work with the Surface touchscreen?
With a little tweaking OS X can run software originally written for other UNIXes and Linuxes, so arguably OS X is more able than Windows.
Windows thanks to its large marketshare benefits from the increased likelihood of niche software being available for it.
It's disturbing their psychology is such that they feel so aggrieved about people being satisfied with Apple products.
That in itself suggest what they're using can't be good in itself, or at least, good enough for them.
Those same developers aren't making iOS versions of those apps either so the point is moot. And their apps already work with the touchscreen. No special development is required for that. They just aren't optimized for it.
You can't run any kind of scripting in iOS so that makes it worthless in lots of use cases. You could never have a fully functional version of ArcGIS with that limitation. Or MatLab. And as was already stated by others, any sort of programming or web development is a no go unless you want to write a bunch of text files and hope they actually work when you get them to an OS that will allow them to be compiled and run. And anything beyond basic word processing is a major headache in iOS I've found.
You buy the tool tool that fits the job. I enjoy my iPad for basic tasks: web browsing, wasting a few minutes on games, checking email, social media. But the Surface Pro has proven itself to be a very capable tool for my needs. Yes, it mostly gets used as an ultra portable laptop but I also like having the touchscreen and stylus. I constantly mix keyboard, trackpad and touchscreen input. And I liked being to add storage space after the fact for about $20 instead of the $100 Apple would have charged.
But if all the above hardware is available by November, it's going to be dazzling new software that takes the staring role into 2017 and beyond. I mean it's always been about great software. But this 2015-2016 A9(x) 2GB platform for both iPhone and iPad really sets the stage for some amazing software breakthroughs that older hardware just couldn't support. This feels like a turning point in hardware development that makes me think my years of buying the next new model are over. In my mind perfection has been achieved on both the iPhone 6s Plus and the 9.7" iPad Pro. And I already know I'm not interested in an iPhone that has no 3.5mm analog audio jack.
OS X runs fine on a iPad, I know that because I run it all the time via a vnc client.
Even with considerable lag because of vnc it's usable; with a bigger screen (iPad Pro) and a few tricks a la safari for iPad and without the lag (no vnc) it will be extremely usable and fast (like a MacBook Pro).
Hardware wise Apple only has to adapt RAM to 8 GB or more (but 4 GB is usable with only one app open) and add a thunderbolt port (no biggie I would say, if Intel protests Apple can buy them with some of the money from its share buyback program).