I think increased automation is technically a good thing. But what about those 10s of thousands of workers? What becomes of them and their families? If more and more companies like Foxconn do this, which seems to be the trend, isn't this going to end up in mass unemployment, riots and calamity?
yes. The world economy can't continue on this trend forever. Once everyone is out of work, who will buy the products the robots built? The robots will also replace call centers, IT, drivers, pilots, doctors, heck I can't think of who will NOT be replaced.
Exactly. That is the conundrum this i/logical ultimate evolution of capitalism poses. Putting all your consumers out of work with robots seems like a self-defeating strategy unless you pay your robots and infuse them with the need and desire to consume.
This article is a bit misleading. The China Post report mentions that output dropped from 120m laptops to 50m with 20m phones not making up for the drop. Robots or not, the labour force was going to be cut drastically. I don't think anyone is saying 60k workers were replaced by robots, it's the market causing them to lose their jobs
Nah. Australia raised their minimum wage a big amount, and despite all the furor, it raised the price of a Big Mac about $0.45. The gloom-and-doomers are full of it. You can pay a lot of workers a lot of hours before you get to the cost of robotics for a burger job.
The gloom and doomers aren't full of it.
Yes they are.
You can't even compare Australia.
Yes, you can.
The raising of the minimum wage in California will be the highest ever in the world.
Not even close.
The minimum wage increase is going to cost close to a million jobs.
No it won't.
Some parts of California its going to hurt a lot, especially in the farming communities. Farmers will be cutting their work force and food prices will go up.
Those are mostly undocumented workers, minimum wage won't apply to them.
With many jobs being wiped out, it's going to cost California taxpayers billions with more people going on welfare.
No, it won't.
Even our own governor admitted the minimum wage increase is going to cost a ton of jobs. Here is Jerry Brown's quote: “Economically, minimum wages may not make sense. But morally, socially, and politically they make every sense.”
Disappointing to hear a governor make such a dumb comment, but it makes perfect economic sense. Flush workers spend money on goods and services which stimulates the economy, this is textbook money.
Take Oakland for example, when the minimum wage was increased there to $12.25, food prices increased 20%.
Anecdotal nonsense, unsupported by data.
Fast food places aren't switching to robotics. They are switching to automated ordering. All the McDonalds in my area have started to install the monitors for ordering.
Do you honestly believe that had wages stayed the same, this wasn't going to happen anyway?
If manufacturing becomes more automated and relies less on human workers, is there any reason to continue to do it in China?
Exactly. But the question is who is designing and building the machine tools? Is it Foxconn or some other company. Could Apple buy those same tools? Does Apple have the expertise and resources to build them?
I'm also surprised that the Chinese government would permit such massive layoffs. The last thing they want is 50,000 + angry workers.
The article clearly said mostly migrant workers would be affected. The mass migration of workers will continue as it does every year. They'll just bypass that particular factory. There is actually a labor shortage in China. Has been for years and that has made it harder to retain workers. Many workers don't return to the same company each year. Electronics companies spend a lot of time and money to attract workers each year following Chinese New Year. they never know how many will return after the holiday.The workers try to find the best job as close to home as possible and keep heading east until they find one. Fewer jobs may actually stabilize things a bit.
isn't this going to end up in mass unemployment, riots and calamity?
They are migrant workers. They come from all over, not the same place. You need lots of people in the same place pissed off at the same time to lead to a riot.
Nah. Australia raised their minimum wage a big amount, and despite all the furor, it raised the price of a Big Mac about $0.45. The gloom-and-doomers are full of it. You can pay a lot of workers a lot of hours before you get to the cost of robotics for a burger job.
The gloom and doomers aren't full of it. You can't even compare Australia. The raising of the minimum wage in California will be the highest ever in the world. The minimum wage increase is going to cost close to a million jobs. Some parts of California its going to hurt a lot, especially in the farming communities. Farmers will be cutting their work force and food prices will go up. With many jobs being wiped out, it's going to cost California taxpayers billions with more people going on welfare. Even our own governor admitted the minimum wage increase is going to cost a ton of jobs. Here is Jerry Brown's quote: “Economically, minimum wages may not make sense. But morally, socially, and politically they make every sense.” Take Oakland for example, when the minimum wage was increased there to $12.25, food prices increased 20%. Fast food places aren't switching to robotics. They are switching to automated ordering. All the McDonalds in my area have started to install the monitors for ordering.
Yes they are full of it ... so there!
Do you have vetted sources for these statements or is the anecdotal observation (ie Opinion) that is presumed to be universal?
in my OPINION-- I do think they should have concentrated on worker benefits before raising wages(health/retirement/school minimums). Raising the minimum wage is more like a flat tax, affects the working poor more than the average consumer. BUT also in theory, raising min wage by your own statement implication should lift more off food stamps and housing assistance etc. Its a balance how far to go before detrimental affects take over beneficial affects.
BTW-- check which countries(especially Europe) do not have 'by law' minimum wage. Its interesting! But keep in mind most EU countries have trade unions
It's not as simple as building assembly lines with robots to bring manufacturing to the US. It also requires raw materials and an infrastructure. It would do no good to assemble products here when all the raw materials and/or components would need to be imported.
A couple things in the basically off-topic $15/hour wage rants:
1) The fast food companies and many others were working on ordering kiosks long before the $15/hour wage proposal. They'll do anything to increase the bottom line and funnel more money to upper management and CEOs. The only way to get them to not do it and keep people gainfully employed is to boycott them, and that isn't going to happen -- at least not in a large enough capacity to make them remove the kiosks and hire people again.
2) What is it with everyone bitching about the kiosks, anyway? Everyone I know is always complaining the people behind the counter are morons who get their orders wrong, don't smile at them enough, and drop boogers in their food. The same people complaining about the kiosks knocking out jobs probably go through the automated check out lanes at the stores, too, and don't even think about the slow cashiers that talk to them too much who they just put out of work.
It's not as simple as building assembly lines with robots to bring manufacturing to the US. It also requires raw materials and an infrastructure. It would do no good to assemble products here when all the raw materials and/or components would need to be imported.
I read an article recently which stated that most of Apple's parts and materials used for production in China actually comes from outside places, so I'm sure that Apple would be able to import what they needed from elsewhere.
Basically, iPhones are assembled in China, but that doesn't mean that all of the materials and parts are from China. I was actually surprised by how much was not from China, I thought that the percentage was far higher.
"and here is foxconn- maker of the popular iPhone. there are suicide nets to prevent the robots from jumping to their death after doing hours of repetitive work. most robots working here could never afford to buy an iPhone."
isn't this going to end up in mass unemployment, riots and calamity?
They are migrant workers. They come from all over, not the same place. You need lots of people in the same place pissed off at the same time to lead to a riot.
It's unfortunate, but it is the individual's responsibility to adapt.
Why is that unfortunate?
It's unfortunate that REALITY means that as technology improves, menial things like repetitive work can be done by non-humans (i.e. Robots) that don't require all the baggage that goes along with an employee...
BUT...
is is the individual's responsibility to adapt when their environment changes.
Comments
Yes they are full of it ... so there!
Do you have vetted sources for these statements or is the anecdotal observation (ie Opinion) that is presumed to be universal?
in my OPINION-- I do think they should have concentrated on worker benefits before raising wages(health/retirement/school minimums). Raising the minimum wage is more like a flat tax, affects the working poor more than the average consumer. BUT also in theory, raising min wage by your own statement implication should lift more off food stamps and housing assistance etc. Its a balance how far to go before detrimental affects take over beneficial affects.
BTW-- check which countries(especially Europe) do not have 'by law' minimum wage. Its interesting! But keep in mind most EU countries have trade unions
1) The fast food companies and many others were working on ordering kiosks long before the $15/hour wage proposal. They'll do anything to increase the bottom line and funnel more money to upper management and CEOs. The only way to get them to not do it and keep people gainfully employed is to boycott them, and that isn't going to happen -- at least not in a large enough capacity to make them remove the kiosks and hire people again.
2) What is it with everyone bitching about the kiosks, anyway? Everyone I know is always complaining the people behind the counter are morons who get their orders wrong, don't smile at them enough, and drop boogers in their food. The same people complaining about the kiosks knocking out jobs probably go through the automated check out lanes at the stores, too, and don't even think about the slow cashiers that talk to them too much who they just put out of work.
Welcome to the future! Belly up to the bar and order a big drink and enjoy! Oh, you're going to get that drink from a robot bartender, by the way. http://www.usatoday.com/story/cruiselog/2014/11/01/quantum-robot-bar-cruise/18308319/
Basically, iPhones are assembled in China, but that doesn't mean that all of the materials and parts are from China. I was actually surprised by how much was not from China, I thought that the percentage was far higher.
Especially for those who specialize in robot maintenance.
Designed in California.
Assembled in California by robots.
California might not be the best and cheapest place to manufacture.
BUT...
is is the individual's responsibility to adapt when their environment changes.