Apple & opponents square off over proposed Irish datacenter's distance from nuclear sites

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 31
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Why do people get all weak kneed about Fukashima?  The tsunami killed 15,839, Fukushima 0.

    You could hardly get much further west in Ireland without building your data centre in the sea, so this whole distance from a nuclear power station brouhaha is pretty stupid.

    Any outside observers thinking this is taking a long time, please note that construction has started.  Contrast it with efforts to build a national children's hospital in Dublin - that one has only taken 30 years or so and they still haven't started.  Apple has had an easy ride and it has all happened in the blink of an eye compared to other projects.
    NumNuts
  • Reply 22 of 31
    tommikeletommikele Posts: 265member
    spice-boy said:
    Apple defenders here, if this was going up in your backyard would you let Apple do what ever it wishes? 
    I don't think anyone is suggesting they be allow to do anything they want anywhere they want. Go look at the Irish Times and read up on the issues being raised. A lot of it is equivalent to arguing the earth is flat or the moon is made of green cheese.
    baconstang
  • Reply 23 of 31
    gprovidagprovida Posts: 248member
    This seems to be an entirely internal issue to Apple.  If the choice is wrong, then Apple's Services might be degraded, but it nothing to do with the Irish community issues regarding environmental and power consumption.  It merely shows that no site is perfect, but all come with some kind of compromises.  For the local Irish community the compromises have been entirely in their favor with new jobs, restoring native plants and animals as well as ultimately increasing the renewable energy available in Ireland.  
  • Reply 24 of 31
    latifbp said:
    Offer all residents in the area a 6 pack of Guinness.
    "Shure, wouldn't dat just be grand!"

    Seriously, though. Why would giving the locals a British-owned beer (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diageo) solve anything?

    Yes, I'm Irsh and I'm amused by the fact that NONE of our famous beers and spirits are Irish-owned anymore. Which, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with Apple and data centres. As a moderate Apple fan (two old iPhones, iPad and IMac) I hope this goes through relatively smoothly. This planning process is par for the course. Try building an incinerator around here and see what happens!
    cnocbui
  • Reply 25 of 31
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,865member
    sog35 said:
    So Apple does not want to put its data centers near a nuclear facitlity.

    Duh!

    This is beyond idiotic. What next?  Apple will be forced to put their data centers in a flood zone?  Volcano area? Near a earthquake fault? stupid.
    The fear of nuclear power sites is absolutely asinine, especially when you consider the mad rush we seem to be in to a nuclear war. Even if that war doesn't come people need to come to grips with the need for nuclear power, as the so called Green solutions are way to destructive to out a priority on. Speaking of earthquakes and volcanoes Apple has data centers in Oregon, not exactly a safe place to be for earthquakes and volcanoes. It just highlights how stupid the fear of nuclear power plants are. Beyond that the east coast data center could easily be hit by a hurricane (something that is overdue in the area. If they went to the Midwest we would have the potential of extremely powerful Tornadoes. The point is there are risks no matter where you do business.
  • Reply 26 of 31
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,865member
    spice-boy said:
    Apple defenders here, if this was going up in your backyard would you let Apple do what ever it wishes? 
    Nope! No more n any other company. That means being respectful of local wishes that are reasonable. Every sizable business installation around here gets reviewed and has a public commenting period. Generally people don't go nuts but in this case they might, as some of Apples policies are very bad for the environment. For example the building of large solar electric farms on clear cut forest lands.
  • Reply 27 of 31
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,865member
    melgross said:
    I don't understand the power consumption issues. While in a number of places Apple does buy power, their goal is to produce all the power themselves, or to use commercial renewable sources. What's the problem here? Despite my looking, I can't find a conclusive article about this.
    First all Apple doesn't build all of there own power generation capacity. Beyond that they waste incredible amounts of land area for solar electric power farms that damage the environment significantly. As an aside a local company put up a huge solar electric farm covering a good portion of the back lot at the site. When it was finally finished it supplied less than 1% of the plants need. That farm required the destruction of good timber and meadow lands. In a nut shell, at today's efficiency levels, solar electric is more harmful than good for the environment. Pretty digesting really. We as humans can't destroy all that is nature and that is exactly what will happen if we continue down this green (stupid feel good path). path.
    cnocbui
  • Reply 28 of 31
    spice-boy said:
    Apple defenders here, if this was going up in your backyard would you let Apple do what ever it wishes? 


    Yes. Because my taxes would go down, or at least not go up, and I could walk to work.

  • Reply 29 of 31
    NumNuts said:
    The planning process here in Ireland...
    1. Application to the local government. 
    2. That decision can be appealed to a national appeals board - An Bord Pleanála - under certain conditions. If it's a certain kind of case of large case, this is often a public hearing. 
    3. Under certain conditions, ABP's finding can be appealed to the High Court. 

    Many cases go to the second stage. It's not particularly unusual and certainly doesn't mean any unusual whining is going on.  :) ABP can only determine whether something was in breach of that local government's own rules or national rules. 

    The electricity aspect is simply arguing that even with an overarching permission, each of the 8 phases should make a sub-application at the time to ensure the grid has been suitably updated in the meantime. (Each phase being about 1% of the national grid.) Makes perfect sense. 

    Presumably even if they're grid-powered, they'd have back-up generators? Hence the 18?


    You forgot a step.

    4. Craft any agreement in such a way that it complies with all current Irish law, but can be interpreted years later by money grabbing politicians to violate some obscure, ambiguously worded "guideline" from the EU.

  • Reply 30 of 31
    moochmooch Posts: 113member
    Is it just me or is 320 km a really long way? Probably 90% of the people and businesses in Ontario are closer to a nuclear plant than that.

    heck, every nuclear plant in Ontario is closer to each other than that !
    edited June 2016
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