Groundbreaking 'atomic memory' could cram unimaginable amounts of data into your iPhone

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 42
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    maestro64 said:
    Another example of interesting experiment but it will never see the light of day as a product.
    yes, because experimental research *never* evolves into real solutions for real problems in real products through years of hard work and iterative improvement. 

    smh. do you guys even listen to yourselves? you do realize that practically any modern computing tech was once an impractical experiment? as if flash memory just hopped out of a seashell, fully formed and ready to slap into your a *handheld computer*. have you seen the size of the first storage devices?!? we're talking dresser-size. 
    The point is even if they find a way to stabilize this at room temperature the current apparatus is to massive even for a desktop machine.  

    The apparatus to run these sorts of experiments are room sized as in a large research lab.    This tech isn't going I hit the handheld market anytime soon.    Further I question the reliability of the memory, they mention thermal sensitivity but what about mechanical shock.    The tech isn't much different than laying out marbles in an array.  
    tallest skilSpamSandwich
  • Reply 22 of 42
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,789member
    At present, the technology uses a scanning tunneling microscope to move and read the atoms' position. 
    That explains why reading and writing are so slow.
    STMs use extremely sharp tungsten scanning tips, which must be moved with extreme precision to read and manipulate atoms' positions.
    So this new technology suffers from the mechanical latency issues of hard drives plus extremely low bandwidth (one bit at a time.)
    I'd rather go with some kind of optical technology.  The fewer moving parts, the better.
    edited July 2016 SpamSandwich
  • Reply 23 of 42
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    sockrolid said:
    At present, the technology uses a scanning tunneling microscope to move and read the atoms' position. 
    That explains why reading and writing are so slow.
    STMs use extremely sharp tungsten scanning tips, which must be moved with extreme precision to read and manipulate atoms' positions.
    So this new technology suffers from the mechanical latency issues of hard drives plus extremely low bandwidth (one bit at a time.)
    I'd rather go with some kind of optical technology.  The fewer moving parts, the better.
    An optical approach won't work at those scales, which is why they use a physical needle.  I'm not even sure Gamma rays have a short enough wavelength.
    afrodri
  • Reply 24 of 42
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    cnocbui said:
    I'm not even sure Gamma rays have a short enough wavelength.
    Well, if this ‘scale of the universe’ thing is accurate (it is), here’s a gamma ray wavelength compared to the size of the smallest atoms.



    It’s the little blue thing; I should’ve thrown in an arrow with Preview. I would have zoomed further, but you couldn’t see the atoms then.
    edited July 2016
  • Reply 25 of 42
    kent909kent909 Posts: 729member
    As fast as people develop more storage capabilities, other people will be working on ways to fill it up.
  • Reply 26 of 42
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    kent909 said:
    As fast as people develop more storage capabilities, other people will be working on ways to fill it up.
    I demand ALAC 24-bit audio with a separate track for every instrument in the orchestra.  :p
  • Reply 27 of 42
    This will be expensive considering how Apple charges $100 for a 16GB upgrade.
    I guess you don't remember paying $300 for a 30MB SCSI drive back in 1989. 
    I do. 
    The equivalent of $160,000 for 16GB of storage back then.
    I think I still have it, with a copy of System 7.6 on it.
    Of course, we could also boot our Mac and run software on a single 800kB diskette.
    edited July 2016 fastasleep
  • Reply 28 of 42
    maestro64 said:
    Another example of interesting experiment but it will never see the light of day as a product.
    yes, because experimental research *never* evolves into real solutions for real problems in real products through years of hard work and iterative improvement. 

    smh. do you guys even listen to yourselves? you do realize that practically any modern computing tech was once an impractical experiment? as if flash memory just hopped out of a seashell, fully formed and ready to slap into your *handheld computer*. have you seen the size of the first storage devices?!? they were dresser-size. 
    These are the children of the people who said touch screens where impractical because they could never be small enough to matter and the grand children of the people who said mobile phones would need too much infrastructure to be implemented and great grandchildren of people who said screens would never show color. ...and they are breeding.
    edited July 2016 fastasleepnolamacguy
  • Reply 29 of 42
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    wizard69 said:
    yes, because experimental research *never* evolves into real solutions for real problems in real products through years of hard work and iterative improvement. 

    smh. do you guys even listen to yourselves? you do realize that practically any modern computing tech was once an impractical experiment? as if flash memory just hopped out of a seashell, fully formed and ready to slap into your a *handheld computer*. have you seen the size of the first storage devices?!? we're talking dresser-size. 
    The point is even if they find a way to stabilize this at room temperature the current apparatus is to massive even for a desktop machine.  

    The apparatus to run these sorts of experiments are room sized as in a large research lab.    This tech isn't going I hit the handheld market anytime soon.    Further I question the reliability of the memory, they mention thermal sensitivity but what about mechanical shock.    The tech isn't much different than laying out marbles in an array.  
    the irony of a person typing on a computer citing the room-size problem of computing technology...

    anyway, saying "anytime soon" is moving the goalposts -- im certainly not saying this is going to be in our next iphone. but one day? sure, i could see atomic storage being a thing.
    edited July 2016
  • Reply 30 of 42
    anomeanome Posts: 1,443member

    Still waiting on my holographic memory storage. It's been 5 years away from a commercial product since the 60s.

    (Maybe when it gets here, it will be fusion powered!)

    tallest skilSpamSandwich
  • Reply 31 of 42
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 908member
    I read about this the other day on Phys.org.  The Feynman lecture is called "There's Plenty of Room at the Bottom" if anyone is interested. It can be found on YouTube easily. 
    edited July 2016
  • Reply 32 of 42
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 908member
    This will be expensive considering how Apple charges $100 for a 16GB upgrade.
    I guess you don't remember paying $300 for a 30MB SCSI drive back in 1989. 
    I do. 
    The equivalent of $160,000 for 16GB of storage back then.
    I think I still have it, with a copy of System 7.6 on it.
    Of course, we could also boot our Mac and run software on a single 800kB diskette.
    Ahhh SCSI... Brings back some good memories. I have a SCSI Iomega Zip drive floating around somewhere. 
    hmm
  • Reply 33 of 42
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,926member
    maestro64 said:
    Another example of interesting experiment but it will never see the light of day as a product.
    yes, because experimental research *never* evolves into real solutions for real problems in real products through years of hard work and iterative improvement. 

    smh. do you guys even listen to yourselves? you do realize that practically any modern computing tech was once an impractical experiment? as if flash memory just hopped out of a seashell, fully formed and ready to slap into your *handheld computer*. have you seen the size of the first storage devices?!? they were dresser-size. 


    Let see because I worked on R&D and Product development for 30 yrs and seen my fair share of good ideas which could not be commercialize. My simple point here is the fact this has to be maintain at almost absolute zero means it will not be a real product which will benefit the consumer. When in college I work with my professor on superconductors which also had to work are near absolute zero and 40 years later we are still waiting for science to figure out how to make it work at normal temperatures. To your flash memory idea it only took a few years to go from the lab to an actual product. Grant is expensive and very low storage capacity. I work on some of the very first flash on the market. Flash still has its issue, it wears out, over time you can loose the information stored in flash and it is only getting worse.

    How many new product have you been involved in

    cnocbui
  • Reply 34 of 42
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    maestro64 said:
    yes, because experimental research *never* evolves into real solutions for real problems in real products through years of hard work and iterative improvement. 

    smh. do you guys even listen to yourselves? you do realize that practically any modern computing tech was once an impractical experiment? as if flash memory just hopped out of a seashell, fully formed and ready to slap into your *handheld computer*. have you seen the size of the first storage devices?!? they were dresser-size. 


    Let see because I worked on R&D and Product development for 30 yrs and seen my fair share of good ideas which could not be commercialize. My simple point here is the fact this has to be maintain at almost absolute zero means it will not be a real product which will benefit the consumer. When in college I work with my professor on superconductors which also had to work are near absolute zero and 40 years later we are still waiting for science to figure out how to make it work at normal temperatures. To your flash memory idea it only took a few years to go from the lab to an actual product. Grant is expensive and very low storage capacity. I work on some of the very first flash on the market. Flash still has its issue, it wears out, over time you can loose the information stored in flash and it is only getting worse.

    How many new product have you been involved in

    ive also developed & launched brand new products sold in retail all over the country and also spent years doing research & development to get there. which is why i know how final products evolve from prototypes. but i wont get into a pising match with you because that doesnt make our opinions any more right or wrong.

    but you miss the point -- obviously we arent going to be using our future personal computers at absolute-zero. but the tech will change and improve thru iterative development until it becomes a thing that works outside the lab, even if that implementation is different than the lab versions. especially as it becomes different. that process has happened a million times and it begins with lab conditions. see Wright Brothers -- their crappy canvas deathtraps became F-16s fighter jets and stealth bombers and space shuttles. we figure shit out and make it better. thats basically what humans do. it works.

    to chide this as being too hard is just another way of saying "It'll never fly, Orville!"

    and the irony of naysayers doing their naysaying on incredibly powerful, complex, and small PCs & mobile devices proves the point. there was a time when computing required entire rooms of air-cooled vacuum tubes...now its a dingus in your goddam pants pocket. never fly, huh?
    edited July 2016
  • Reply 35 of 42
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    wizard69 said:
    yes, because experimental research *never* evolves into real solutions for real problems in real products through years of hard work and iterative improvement. 

    smh. do you guys even listen to yourselves? you do realize that practically any modern computing tech was once an impractical experiment? as if flash memory just hopped out of a seashell, fully formed and ready to slap into your a *handheld computer*. have you seen the size of the first storage devices?!? we're talking dresser-size. 
    The point is even if they find a way to stabilize this at room temperature the current apparatus is to massive even for a desktop machine.  

    The apparatus to run these sorts of experiments are room sized as in a large research lab.    This tech isn't going I hit the handheld market anytime soon.    Further I question the reliability of the memory, they mention thermal sensitivity but what about mechanical shock.    The tech isn't much different than laying out marbles in an array.  
    the irony of a person typing on a computer citing the room-size problem of computing technology...

    anyway, saying "anytime soon" is moving the goalposts -- im certainly not saying this is going to be in our next iphone. but one day? sure, i could see atomic storage being a thing.
    There really is not irony here. A Scanning Electron Microscope is not computing technology, nor is all the hardware required to support that machine. I think people need to get a handle on what this equipment is before suggesting it will arrive anytime soon. Well personally I'm hoping for higher density and more reliable storage that is also significantly cheaper. There are a lot of alternatives being researched and eventually one of them will take over from flash. Even so I expect flash to be around a long time.
  • Reply 36 of 42
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    anome said:

    Still waiting on my holographic memory storage. It's been 5 years away from a commercial product since the 60s.

    (Maybe when it gets here, it will be fusion powered!)

    I expect fusion power to arrive first. There are people actually making headway with respect to fusion systems. More interestingly the first fusion system might not be for generating electrical power. We may very well see fusion powered space ships before electrical generation.
    tallest skil
  • Reply 37 of 42
    Atoms are ideas. So are all the other particles. Quantum Physics is fantasy more so than science.
    All that they must be measuring are extremely minute voltage changes if this story is true at all.
    An electrical wave requires an oscillation between what we term the positive an negative poles.

    The fact that it takes days to prepare the medium and hours to rewrite data support this idea.
    It takes that long for such minute electrical changes to make a measurable change to the medium.


    What about Read Times? The article seems to fault to address this point.
    Read times are usually around the same as write times no?
    Even if the read time is faster is it going to be on the order of ms? Seems like  read time would be on the order of half an hour to minutes at best.
  • Reply 38 of 42
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Atoms are ideas.
    You have to take the idea to its logical conclusion, then: Nothing actually physically exists as anything other than a difference in electrical potential.

    Of course, then you have to admit that you believe in that Electric Universe thing, which basically undermines any furtherance of the argument.
  • Reply 39 of 42
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 908member
    Quantum Physics is fantasy more so than science.
    .



     
    You can't really believe that can you? Quantum mechanics and in particular Quantum Electrodynamics is the most successful depiction of the physical world we have, sans gravity. It agrees with experiment to a rediculous degree of accuracy. 
  • Reply 40 of 42
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