Even if this turns out to be true, I won't use it for the same reason I don't use TouchID to unlock my phone. Law enforcement can legally require me to provide a finger touch. Not so with a password.
Apple could bring existing technologies to the main stream just like Touch ID. I like the idea of just looking at your phone and it automatically unlocks. Could do the same for your computer and iPad. Check this out it is pretty cool. Anything is possible.
Except that NOBODY has ever showed a completed start-to-finish working spoof to fool the iPhone fingerprint sensor.
You're certainly entitled to believe it can't be done, despite claims by Michigan State University among others.
A 1 minute video? Sorry, not good enough. My original post clearly said "completed start-to-finish".
Every video (and I mean EVERY SINGLE VIDEO) of people doing these unlocks always shows an edited version showing a successful unlock. What they don't show is how many failed attempts it took BEFORE they got one to work.
Back when the iPhone 5S came out there was that reward offered to the first person to spoof the iPhones fingerprint reader. The original contest rules required a completed, unedited end-to-end video to get the money. Then that computer club from Germany showed their EDITED video and claimed the reward. They got the money, despite never having showed a complete video. They did promise to show an unedited video, but never came through. The whole thing is fishy.
Worse yet, they TRAINED a fingerprint just seconds before trying their unlock. This is outright fraud as the security of the iPhone fingerprint scanner increases the more you use it (this is according to Apple). Which means that the system is at its least secure (more likely to be fooled) immediately after you learn a finger (since you haven't been using it enough for Apple to make any changes).
We don't know exactly why Apple states this, but it makes perfect sense. Apple wants people to use their fingerprint scanner. They don't want people to spend 20 minutes learning a fingerprint. So they have a quick setup procedure to get going, and relax the rules for unlocking your iPhone so people don't get turned of by using it and getting too many rejections. Each time you use it Apple learns a bit more about your print and adjusts accordingly. After a period of time you get maximum security without putting people off the system.
The only way for someone to prove they can spoof the iPhone is to lift a print off something someone has touched (glass, mug, door knob or the iPhone itself), reproduce the fingerprint and then unlock the iPhone before the minimum number of tries locks you out. In the real world you don't get unlimited tries and you don't get to "learn" the finger before trying it. And after they do it once they have to do it several more times to prove the single time wasn't an accident.
Find me a video that shows this and I'll retract my statement.
You misunderstood me. I completely agreed with you that if the only standard you would accept is a complete end-to-end uncut and verified video of the process then your disbelief that it's possible is certainly justified. You are certainly not the only person who holds that if you can't touch, see or taste something then it doesn't exist. I'm 100% sincere.
EDIT: I realized I'm assuming you don't believe it's possible even tho you've not actually said that. So just to clarify, do you believe it's possible that fingerprint readers can be fooled into unlocking a user' device?
By contrast, an iris scan done with a UV camera one one eye ,
It's infrared light . UV light would damage the eyes. Infrared is perfectly safe though. This BTW is also the reason why they work perfectly in low light situations.
I don't see it. Fingerprint is super fast and convenient. What good is there to having two completely separate biometric devices on one iPhone? People will just use the one that works all the time under any conditions (fingerprint).
I think the idea is they would look to remove the home button overall. So you would literally pick your phone, look at it, and it would unlock. The changes they've implemented in how Touch ID works in iOS 10 may be a precursor to that including the "Lift to Wake" feature which I would love now that I have an Apple Watch.
So it would work like this, you lift your phone up to look at it and your notifications would appear. You would be informed that your phone is unlocked and can tap something to go to your home screen, or just interface with your phone right from the widgets.
I don't see it. Fingerprint is super fast and convenient. What good is there to having two completely separate biometric devices on one iPhone? People will just use the one that works all the time under any conditions (fingerprint).
By contrast, an iris scan done with a UV camera one one eye , is equivalent in complexity to a full 10 print at FBI record quality, so it's potentially over 100x stronger as an unlock mechanism as TouchID is today. ie you get a "collision" in iris scan data about 1 in 5 million people. I say potentially , because Apple might take a very conservative path as it did with fingerprints, to make false refusals to unlock a low rate error.
There is a company called B2I biometrics that made an iris scanner / fingerprint scanner case for iPhone 4, that was sold to law enforcement, to acquire data and ID people in traffic stops, bail checks, etc. They have a lot of public material on the trade-offs between iris scan and fingerprints.
Iris scans are very fast, and might be combined with existing TouchID to offer a 2 factor authentication mechanism to unlock. Many people look at their phone when unlocking anyhow, so it could be very seamless & slick.
You know a lot more than I do. To your knowledge, does one need to remove glasses for an iris scan? That would make it a real pain for 4-eyed folks like myself.
I think a cool use for IrisID would be to get rid of the "Message Read" function loophole on Messages. If a text appears on your lock screen and you read it, it doesn't tell the other person it's been read until you actually open the message in Messages.
With IrisID, it would detect your eye reading the lock screen message and properly report, "Read 9:41 AM".
A 1 minute video? Sorry, not good enough. My original post clearly said "completed start-to-finish".
Every video (and I mean EVERY SINGLE VIDEO) of people doing these unlocks always shows an edited version showing a successful unlock. What they don't show is how many failed attempts it took BEFORE they got one to work.
Back when the iPhone 5S came out there was that reward offered to the first person to spoof the iPhones fingerprint reader. The original contest rules required a completed, unedited end-to-end video to get the money. Then that computer club from Germany showed their EDITED video and claimed the reward. They got the money, despite never having showed a complete video. They did promise to show an unedited video, but never came through. The whole thing is fishy.
Worse yet, they TRAINED a fingerprint just seconds before trying their unlock. This is outright fraud as the security of the iPhone fingerprint scanner increases the more you use it (this is according to Apple). Which means that the system is at its least secure (more likely to be fooled) immediately after you learn a finger (since you haven't been using it enough for Apple to make any changes).
We don't know exactly why Apple states this, but it makes perfect sense. Apple wants people to use their fingerprint scanner. They don't want people to spend 20 minutes learning a fingerprint. So they have a quick setup procedure to get going, and relax the rules for unlocking your iPhone so people don't get turned of by using it and getting too many rejections. Each time you use it Apple learns a bit more about your print and adjusts accordingly. After a period of time you get maximum security without putting people off the system.
The only way for someone to prove they can spoof the iPhone is to lift a print off something someone has touched (glass, mug, door knob or the iPhone itself), reproduce the fingerprint and then unlock the iPhone before the minimum number of tries locks you out. In the real world you don't get unlimited tries and you don't get to "learn" the finger before trying it. And after they do it once they have to do it several more times to prove the single time wasn't an accident.
Find me a video that shows this and I'll retract my statement.
You misunderstood me. I completely agreed with you that if the only standard you would accept is a complete end-to-end uncut and verified video of the process then your disbelief that it's possible is certainly justified. You are certainly not the only person who holds that if you can't touch, see or taste something then it doesn't exist. I'm 100% sincere.
EDIT: I realized I'm assuming you don't believe it's possible even tho you've not actually said that. So just to clarify, do you believe it's possible that fingerprint readers can be fooled into unlocking a user' device?
It's absolutely possible a fingerprint reader can be fooled by making a mould from a print. What I'm saying is it's very difficult to do all the steps involved and get it right the first time. That's why nobody shows a complete video - we have no idea how many times they failed before they got it to work.
After 5 tries Touch ID is locked out and you're back to using a PIN. Who's to say they didn't enter the PIN and keep trying to see if it works? And then only show us the video of when it worked?
Certainly, as the technology stands at the moment, I don't expect iris scanning to replace TouchID anytime soon, however I think there may be a place for it alongside TouchID for people who may not be able to use TouchID - due to physical disability for example. Some users might not even have a PIN enabled because it's too difficult to enter one every time they want to use their phone, an iris scan could help with that. Also, if you can't use TouchID, you can't use ApplePay, an iris scan opens that up to a whole range of users.
In other words, I see it being an accessibility issue at this point. It may have further benefits down the road, these things often do.
Hopefully not a replacement. The current TouchID is so good (reliable, except when fingers wet), and so convenient (unlock without looking at device a lot), and so fast, that facial/iris scanning would be a step back if the only method.
Agreed and I'd have to wonder if there were any health risks to having my eyes scanned numerous times per day, 365 days per year, for years.
Not gonna happen. I'd expect Microsoft or Samsung to go this route.
Microsoft already did... Lumia 950 and 950XL have had Iris scanning for like a year now.... It was a bit tricky at first, but, it has greatly improved as they have updated the software. It works in almost all light conditions - I still have problems in very bright light. It works with my glasses on or off (the trick is to train it with them off and with them on), and it works reasonably quickly. I would say not as fast as a finger print, but, definitely faster then entering my passcode.
Reading through this thread, it is pretty obvious none of the apple fans know a single thing about Microsoft's Windows Hello.
Except that NOBODY has ever showed a completed start-to-finish working spoof to fool the iPhone fingerprint sensor.
You're certainly entitled to believe it can't be done, despite claims by Michigan State University among others. Perhaps they have some reason to lie about it, it can't be 100% ruled out right?
at which minute marker in that video do they show or even claim they can apply their technique to the iPhone, specifically?
Even if this turns out to be true, I won't use it for the same reason I don't use TouchID to unlock my phone. Law enforcement can legally require me to provide a finger touch. Not so with a password.
Yeah, I'm paranoid.
I see it as offering an array of choices, thus being a potential addition.
Hopefully not a replacement. The current TouchID is so good (reliable, except when fingers wet), and so convenient (unlock without looking at device a lot), and so fast, that facial/iris scanning would be a step back if the only method.
Agreed and I'd have to wonder if there were any health risks to having my eyes scanned numerous times per day, 365 days per year, for years.
If it were to be completely passive and use only ambient light, then it would add zero risk. Whatever light you are seeing with provides the electromagnetic radiation that is "ruining" your eyes. If you are 100% paranoid about that light ruining your eyes then you might as well wear welding goggles and never use your eyes for the purpose they are designed for. If it would require a small amount of infrared light then it adds an extremely tiny risk unless extremely poorly implemented. Onlyusing a focused high-intensity beam or a laser would be a problem.
I don't see it. Fingerprint is super fast and convenient. What good is there to having two completely separate biometric devices on one iPhone? People will just use the one that works all the time under any conditions (fingerprint).
I think the idea is they would look to remove the home button overall. So you would literally pick your phone, look at it, and it would unlock. The changes they've implemented in how Touch ID works in iOS 10 may be a precursor to that including the "Lift to Wake" feature which I would love now that I have an Apple Watch.
So it would work like this, you lift your phone up to look at it and your notifications would appear. You would be informed that your phone is unlocked and can tap something to go to your home screen, or just interface with your phone right from the widgets.
The next step after that would be eye tracking gestures to preform limited function on the phone. So if you are clearly reading a message it could do like force touch expansion of the context to the message so the first time you touch the screen is to type the reply. (eta 2018 + 2 OS updates => 2021)
I don't see it. Fingerprint is super fast and convenient. What good is there to having two completely separate biometric devices on one iPhone? People will just use the one that works all the time under any conditions (fingerprint).
The successor to Touch ID could be "Iris ID," as a new report claims that Apple is looking to bring secure eye scanning technology to the iPhone in the next two years...
Monday's report alleged that Apple's chief rival in the mobile space, Samsung, is planning to include iris recognition technology in its flagship Galaxy S smartphone later this year.
Just read this article about how Sammy's version, expected in a couple of months, will operate. Doesn't sound either particularly fast or convenient, but the wait for the actual product to see how it works in the real world shouldn't be too long if rumors are accurate. http://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-galaxy-note-7-iris-scanner-700377/
Like fingerprint id, Samsung will beat Apple to it but their system will be awkward at best. Apple will do a better job the next year but stumble on the first iOS update by breaking it and then fix it with a rapid follow-up iOS update. Amdroid fans will then point out that Android was first and ignore the fact that the Apple system functions a lot better. And so the wheel goes round and round, round and round.
Comments
Even if this turns out to be true, I won't use it for the same reason I don't use TouchID to unlock my phone. Law enforcement can legally require me to provide a finger touch. Not so with a password.
Yeah, I'm paranoid.
EDIT: I realized I'm assuming you don't believe it's possible even tho you've not actually said that. So just to clarify, do you believe it's possible that fingerprint readers can be fooled into unlocking a user' device?
So it would work like this, you lift your phone up to look at it and your notifications would appear. You would be informed that your phone is unlocked and can tap something to go to your home screen, or just interface with your phone right from the widgets.
With IrisID, it would detect your eye reading the lock screen message and properly report, "Read 9:41 AM".
It's absolutely possible a fingerprint reader can be fooled by making a mould from a print. What I'm saying is it's very difficult to do all the steps involved and get it right the first time. That's why nobody shows a complete video - we have no idea how many times they failed before they got it to work.
After 5 tries Touch ID is locked out and you're back to using a PIN. Who's to say they didn't enter the PIN and keep trying to see if it works? And then only show us the video of when it worked?
Certainly, as the technology stands at the moment, I don't expect iris scanning to replace TouchID anytime soon, however I think there may be a place for it alongside TouchID for people who may not be able to use TouchID - due to physical disability for example. Some users might not even have a PIN enabled because it's too difficult to enter one every time they want to use their phone, an iris scan could help with that. Also, if you can't use TouchID, you can't use ApplePay, an iris scan opens that up to a whole range of users.
In other words, I see it being an accessibility issue at this point. It may have further benefits down the road, these things often do.
Microsoft already did... Lumia 950 and 950XL have had Iris scanning for like a year now.... It was a bit tricky at first, but, it has greatly improved as they have updated the software. It works in almost all light conditions - I still have problems in very bright light. It works with my glasses on or off (the trick is to train it with them off and with them on), and it works reasonably quickly. I would say not as fast as a finger print, but, definitely faster then entering my passcode.
Reading through this thread, it is pretty obvious none of the apple fans know a single thing about Microsoft's Windows Hello.
If it's Iris ID, Many people will turn it off completely. It probably won't be able to scan through my sunglasses or eyeglasses.
Like fingerprint id, Samsung will beat Apple to it but their system will be awkward at best. Apple will do a better job the next year but stumble on the first iOS update by breaking it and then fix it with a rapid follow-up iOS update. Amdroid fans will then point out that Android was first and ignore the fact that the Apple system functions a lot better. And so the wheel goes round and round, round and round.