Really? Then why do I need to swipe a picture up (using the mouse) just to log in to my desktop computer? Why is it hard to find applications which support both desktop and tablet usage modes well? Just a couple of examples...
1) The surface is not a desktop. When the surface is docked to a keyboard it goes into desktop mode. When undocked it goes to the modern UI. That's if you have that turned on. Otherwise you manually switch. There is no mode confusion.
2) I log in via the camera which is amusing if insecure. But no more insecure than using iPhone Touch ID (which my kid has beat on his mom's phone because she put in too many fingers).
I'm talking about Windows 10 itself (not just the Surface) and the whole "it runs on both PCs and tablets". I have it installed on a desktop PC, and there certainly is a fair bit of mode confusion. It's gotten better now that they brought back the start menu and don't force you into tile mode, but there are still details like the swipe up login screen which are confused. This is exactly why Apple didn't (and will never) make Mac OS run on both types of devices -- which is the right decision.
3) Surface + Windows 10 is still relatively new and most things are legacy desktop apps or modern apps.
And how much incentive is there for app developers to spend a bunch of time/money porting their existing desktop apps to work on Windows phones/tablets? Especially since Microsoft is pushing the whole 'full computer' paradigm anyways.
This ad just shows Surface is the "actual" confusing products. Microsoft may not totally confuse and misunderstood iPad, but they certainly trying to make you misunderstood iPad, and more importantly, confuse you with their own product.
Looks like someone got round to telling MS that the iPad has had keyboards since day one, so it's time for a different tack: convince the general public that a computer is not a computer unless it has a parallel port and a 3.5 inch floppy drive.
It's an interesting strategy that really just highlights Microsoft's inability to move on. They hung onto the phone strategy (they liked it; they liked it a lot) even though it was clear that they were sinking fast.
And this advert, designed to appeal to forum dwellers and spec freaks, a customer base that is probably already too old to see out the next thirty years.
It's interesting watching Apple and Microsoft heading off in opposite directions. For all those people screaming for a file system on iOS, Microsoft is your friend; go to them. The current generation is already used to working with discrete chunks of information and posting them all over the place. They already know how to tag their data so they can find it quickly without having to search through massive hierarchies where a piece of information can only reside in one place. These are the people Apple seeks to retain; they’re not really interested in folk who think SCSI ports are the future.
Anything with windows10 on it is not a real computer either, it takes me 10x longer to do the simplest of tasks if I can even do them at all.
E.g. I had an issue getting my epson wifi scanner to connect a few nights ago and normally I'd hop into devices and printers and check the computer was seeing it, check the driver etc. Could I find this, or anything close to it in Win10? I use Windows 7 daily at work and it's fine, gets the job done for running Autodesk Inventor - at home I've actually found myself deliberately using my iPad or iPhone to do most things now as achieving anything on the laptop takes waaaay too long.
As a notebook replacement the Surface Book or SurfacePro is great from a hardware perspective. If I could buy a MacOS version of the Surface Book that could run iOS iPad apps it would be perfect. Instead I have a MBP and a iPad Mini (and MS SurfaceBook).
When docked it's a full fledged computer running a full fledged OS where I can install anything I need. When in tablet mode I use tablet apps (but still hopefully have access to my MacOS files).
The Mac App store has been something of a bust...at least to the point where many of the apps I use have moved away from the Mac App store and those version are no longer supported. So being able to load any app from anywhere is very important for a desktop replacement. As is USB ports and a lot more storage. The Surface Book can go up to 1TB SSD storage.
For $1400 I'd rather have the base level SurfaceBook over $1100 for an iPad Pro (with the logitech keyboard and 128GB storage).
Windows 10 is meh but I can live with it. I haven't been bit by the sleep bug.
The essence of the tablet/hybrid competition is that Apple embraced ARM for mobile and MS fell back to x86.
One is firmly entrenched in PC legacy and the other is on an aggressive roadmap to the future; it isn't difficult for me to pick the winner out of this.
It's been said before I'm sure, but outside the specialist attendees of this site, the majority of people want a computer (not a radio, TV, microwave, coffee grinder, etc.) to enable them to organise their photos, email their friends, write letters, surf the web, browse and order from Amazon, eBay and the like and video chat to their friends or perhaps just Skype them.
Before the iPhone, a "computer" was what you needed to do all of the above. Now though, you can do all of those things from a smartphone or tablet. ... Perhaps, it just needs to handle email, photos and access the web ...
Except that it can't really handle organizing photos. In 2015 we took 1 trillion photos worldwide. Just dividing that out means around a thousand a year for the average smartphone owner.
I have thousands of digital photos, and no, they won't easily or cheaply fit on iCloud. Not to mention I prefer having both online and local backups of those photos.
An iPhone is powerful enough to be a computer but it simply isn't a replacement for a laptop. Neither is an iPad Pro simply because of the limitations that Apple sets in iOS.
I would note that many of those limitations of iOS can be eliminated in the future; that Apple is taking its time doing so is notable, but not surprising. Your use case for photos doesn't seem insurmountable, and certainly doesn't present a use case for Surface over a laptop.
Microsoft has three big issues with the Surface. Battery life, cost of the machine and the machines' unreliability.
Surface machines have a substantial tendency to break. Even Paul Thurrott the penultimate Windows evangelist is calling Microsoft on the carpet over it.
My own company is pushing the surface. It has created huge headaches for them as the machines are always going down at inopportune times. Loss of video, failure to wake from sleep, failure to connect to the network and the list goes on. My iPad Pro just works. I don't worry about it "breaking." It was also less expensive than the Surface pro.
Then there is the issue of battery life which is superior on the iPad.
I am still holding out hope that someone will build full USB support using the smart connector or even using the Lightning port. But even without it, for what I do, the iPad is far superior to the surface. It isn't even close. And syncing the iPad Pro to my iMac using USB-C is very fast.
If I need a laptop I would purchase the upcoming MacBook Pro. At least the Apple machine will be built with quality. Unlike the Surface.
Microsoft has three big issues with the Surface. Battery life, cost of the machine and the machines' unreliability.
Surface machines have a substantial tendency to break. Even Paul Thurrott the penultimate Windows evangelist is calling Microsoft on the carpet over it.
My own company is pushing the surface. It has created huge headaches for them as the machines are always going down at inopportune times. Loss of video, failure to wake from sleep, failure to connect to the network and the list goes on. My iPad Pro just works. I don't worry about it "breaking." It was also less expensive than the Surface pro.
Then there is the issue of battery life which is superior on the iPad.
I am still holding out hope that someone will build full USB support using the smart connector or even using the Lightning port. But even without it, for what I do, the iPad is far superior to the surface. It isn't even close. And syncing the iPad Pro to my iMac using USB-C is very fast.
If I need a laptop I would purchase the upcoming MacBook Pro. At least the Apple machine will be built with quality. Unlike the Surface.
Battery life: Based in my own experience, I would love to have more battery life. Based in my own device, the average is +5 1/2 hours.
Cost: Surface aren't cheap, neither Mac. The hardware itself is very high quality, so it's obvious it's going to be an expensive device.
Reliability: There were a lot of issues with them, but looks like most of them are fixed. Even Paul Thurrott change his mind and recommended the Surface Book,
The essence of the tablet/hybrid competition is that Apple embraced ARM for mobile and MS fell back to x86.
One is firmly entrenched in PC legacy and the other is on an aggressive roadmap to the future; it isn't difficult for me to pick the winner out of this.
Because ARM is not yet sufficiently powerful to replace x86 across the entire line up and x86 is now sufficiently efficient that it can run tablets for a decent amount of time.
If you need your tablet to serve as a laptop replacement and you need programs like MS Project or IntelliJ or whatever then Surface is the way to go.
The Surface Book has been great as a windows laptop replacement. I wish there was one for the Mac.
If I need a laptop I would purchase the upcoming MacBook Pro. At least the Apple machine will be built with quality. Unlike the Surface.
Surface Book build quality is quite high. Software quality is not as good as OS X although right now I'm getting annoying random crashes with El Capitan.
The essence of the tablet/hybrid competition is that Apple embraced ARM for mobile and MS fell back to x86.
One is firmly entrenched in PC legacy and the other is on an aggressive roadmap to the future; it isn't difficult for me to pick the winner out of this.
Because ARM is not yet sufficiently powerful to replace x86 across the entire line up and x86 is now sufficiently efficient that it can run tablets for a decent amount of time.
If you need your tablet to serve as a laptop replacement and you need programs like MS Project or IntelliJ or whatever then Surface is the way to go.
The Surface Book has been great as a windows laptop replacement. I wish there was one for the Mac.
Mobile.
iPad is an iiOS device; it's a mobile device same as an iPhone. That Apple is pushing it into enterprise and as a desktop replacement isn't the same as MS shipping a hybrid Windows laptop that supports touch, which is what the Surface is. Even you would acknowledge that Surface is marketed as a laptop replacement
You MS supporters ignore the elephant in the room, MS has lost a decade of mobile to Android OS and iOS, and a strategy beholden to x86 is unlikely to change that in any significant way.
iPad is an iiOS device; it's a mobile device same as an iPhone. That Apple is pushing it into enterprise and as a desktop replacement isn't the same as MS shipping a hybrid Windows laptop that supports touch, which is what the Surface is. Even you would acknowledge that Surface is marketed as a laptop replacement
You MS supporters ignore the elephant in the room, MS has lost a decade of mobile to Android OS and iOS, and a strategy beholden to x86 is unlikely to change that in any significant way.
Legacy isn't a strong selling point in mobile.
Apple hopes that's an untrue statement. Platform stickiness is an art form for them.
MS lost a decade of mobile to Apple. MS made a reasonable amount of money off Android ($2B a year for a while). But ultimately mobile is secondary to Microsoft even with the Nokia debacle. MS failing at phones is on par with Apple failing on cloud services or Google failing at everything but search. Annoying but not an existential threat.
What they are hoping is they didn't lose a decade to AWS. Given that Azure is growing well it appears not to have been the case and they have a new pillar to replace Windows licensing revenue. I just did an AWS deployment and I'm kinda wondering if I should have gone Azure because it was a bit of a pain in the ass. I would probably have gotten more support from Microsoft.
Microsoft has three $20B revenue streams so it's not like they are dying or anything anytime soon. Revenue and profits may not be as good as Apple but aren't terrible either.
Surface needs to be sufficiently successful to resist significant erosion of laptops in the workplace. This is the same as Intel needing to reduce x86 power efficiencies to keep ARM from making major inroads in the server market. Both companies appear to be successful enough at doing both things. The TDP on x86 is amazingly low for what they can do.
Surface revenue was $1.1B for Q3 2016 so it's not bad. iPad revenues were $4.9B in Q3 2016 and Microsoft probably has rough parity in terms of business sales.
People are getting bored of iOS. Apple is still adopting the mentality "Customers don't know what they want. We know what they want". As long as they continue using that way of thinking they will continue to slump. One of the reasons the Surface is gaining traction is because Microsoft started listening to what customers want, which Apple does not do nor cares. Yes the Surface still has shortcomings, battery life is not on par with the iPad yet but that's about it. If they can fix the battery life on the Surface and make it last 9 to 10 hours like the iPad it will be a no brainer for consumers. Windows 10 is not perfect but again Microsoft shift from not wanting any input from consumers to we listen to them has dramatically improved the OS.
iPad is an iiOS device; it's a mobile device same as an iPhone. That Apple is pushing it into enterprise and as a desktop replacement isn't the same as MS shipping a hybrid Windows laptop that supports touch, which is what the Surface is. Even you would acknowledge that Surface is marketed as a laptop replacement
You MS supporters ignore the elephant in the room, MS has lost a decade of mobile to Android OS and iOS, and a strategy beholden to x86 is unlikely to change that in any significant way.
Legacy isn't a strong selling point in mobile.
Apple hopes that's an untrue statement. Platform stickiness is an art form for them.
MS lost a decade of mobile to Apple. MS made a reasonable amount of money off Android ($2B a year for a while). But ultimately mobile is secondary to Microsoft even with the Nokia debacle. MS failing at phones is on par with Apple failing on cloud services or Google failing at everything but search. Annoying but not an existential threat.
What they are hoping is they didn't lose a decade to AWS. Given that Azure is growing well it appears not to have been the case and they have a new pillar to replace Windows licensing revenue. I just did an AWS deployment and I'm kinda wondering if I should have gone Azure because it was a bit of a pain in the ass. I would probably have gotten more support from Microsoft.
Microsoft has three $20B revenue streams so it's not like they are dying or anything anytime soon. Revenue and profits may not be as good as Apple but aren't terrible either.
Surface needs to be sufficiently successful to resist significant erosion of laptops in the workplace. This is the same as Intel needing to reduce x86 power efficiencies to keep ARM from making major inroads in the server market. Both companies appear to be successful enough at doing both things. The TDP on x86 is amazingly low for what they can do.
Surface revenue was $1.1B for Q3 2016 so it's not bad. iPad revenues were $4.9B in Q3 2016 and Microsoft probably has rough parity in terms of business sales.
You are aware that Apple is now a $25B a year and growing services company; hardly on par with "MS failing at phones" of which revenues are acknowledged as pathetic. Then you state that you went with AWS over Azure; I'm thinking that these services are only going to get more competitive with lower margins.
The essence of the tablet/hybrid competition is that Apple embraced ARM for mobile and MS fell back to x86.
One is firmly entrenched in PC legacy and the other is on an aggressive roadmap to the future; it isn't difficult for me to pick the winner out of this.
Because ARM is not yet sufficiently powerful to replace x86 across the entire line up and x86 is now sufficiently efficient that it can run tablets for a decent amount of time.
If you need your tablet to serve as a laptop replacement and you need programs like MS Project or IntelliJ or whatever then Surface is the way to go.
The Surface Book has been great as a windows laptop replacement. I wish there was one for the Mac.
ARM is ubiquitous and at lower prices and margins than Intel will go with x86. It's likely that Apple could peel off a significant portion of the entry laptop market with an ARM offering a couple of generations out. Google has been very successful with Chromebooks, and this too is peeling off some of the laptop market from MS and its OEM's.
The key to Apple's success with an iOS notebook, an ARMBook if you will, would be the pro applications that would need to be created, but if the market is large enough when including iPhones and iPads, that developers will do that.
The iPad Pro with keyboard is just another iteration of Apple getting its feet wet in the ARM notebook market.
Comments
And how much incentive is there for app developers to spend a bunch of time/money porting their existing desktop apps to work on Windows phones/tablets? Especially since Microsoft is pushing the whole 'full computer' paradigm anyways.
It's an interesting strategy that really just highlights Microsoft's inability to move on. They hung onto the phone strategy (they liked it; they liked it a lot) even though it was clear that they were sinking fast.
And this advert, designed to appeal to forum dwellers and spec freaks, a customer base that is probably already too old to see out the next thirty years.
It's interesting watching Apple and Microsoft heading off in opposite directions. For all those people screaming for a file system on iOS, Microsoft is your friend; go to them. The current generation is already used to working with discrete chunks of information and posting them all over the place. They already know how to tag their data so they can find it quickly without having to search through massive hierarchies where a piece of information can only reside in one place. These are the people Apple seeks to retain; they’re not really interested in folk who think SCSI ports are the future.
One is firmly entrenched in PC legacy and the other is on an aggressive roadmap to the future; it isn't difficult for me to pick the winner out of this.
I would note that many of those limitations of iOS can be eliminated in the future; that Apple is taking its time doing so is notable, but not surprising. Your use case for photos doesn't seem insurmountable, and certainly doesn't present a use case for Surface over a laptop.
Surface machines have a substantial tendency to break. Even Paul Thurrott the penultimate Windows evangelist is calling Microsoft on the carpet over it.
https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/microsoft-surface/64095/welcome-to-surfacegate
My own company is pushing the surface. It has created huge headaches for them as the machines are always going down at inopportune times. Loss of video, failure to wake from sleep, failure to connect to the network and the list goes on. My iPad Pro just works. I don't worry about it "breaking." It was also less expensive than the Surface pro.
Then there is the issue of battery life which is superior on the iPad.
I am still holding out hope that someone will build full USB support using the smart connector or even using the Lightning port. But even without it, for what I do, the iPad is far superior to the surface. It isn't even close. And syncing the iPad Pro to my iMac using USB-C is very fast.
If I need a laptop I would purchase the upcoming MacBook Pro. At least the Apple machine will be built with quality. Unlike the Surface.
Battery life: Based in my own experience, I would love to have more battery life. Based in my own device, the average is +5 1/2 hours.
Cost: Surface aren't cheap, neither Mac. The hardware itself is very high quality, so it's obvious it's going to be an expensive device.
Reliability: There were a lot of issues with them, but looks like most of them are fixed. Even Paul Thurrott change his mind and recommended the Surface Book,
https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/microsoft-surface/65164/microsoft-surface-book-core-i716-gb512-gb-review
Plus the Surface has a very customer satisfaction rating,
https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/microsoft-surface/67024/surface-matches-ipad-customer-satisfaction
So it looks like the Surface devices aren't that bad after all.
If you need your tablet to serve as a laptop replacement and you need programs like MS Project or IntelliJ or whatever then Surface is the way to go.
The Surface Book has been great as a windows laptop replacement. I wish there was one for the Mac.
Surface Book build quality is quite high. Software quality is not as good as OS X although right now I'm getting annoying random crashes with El Capitan.
iPad is an iiOS device; it's a mobile device same as an iPhone. That Apple is pushing it into enterprise and as a desktop replacement isn't the same as MS shipping a hybrid Windows laptop that supports touch, which is what the Surface is. Even you would acknowledge that Surface is marketed as a laptop replacement
You MS supporters ignore the elephant in the room, MS has lost a decade of mobile to Android OS and iOS, and a strategy beholden to x86 is unlikely to change that in any significant way.
Legacy isn't a strong selling point in mobile.
MS lost a decade of mobile to Apple. MS made a reasonable amount of money off Android ($2B a year for a while). But ultimately mobile is secondary to Microsoft even with the Nokia debacle. MS failing at phones is on par with Apple failing on cloud services or Google failing at everything but search. Annoying but not an existential threat.
What they are hoping is they didn't lose a decade to AWS. Given that Azure is growing well it appears not to have been the case and they have a new pillar to replace Windows licensing revenue. I just did an AWS deployment and I'm kinda wondering if I should have gone Azure because it was a bit of a pain in the ass. I would probably have gotten more support from Microsoft.
Microsoft has three $20B revenue streams so it's not like they are dying or anything anytime soon. Revenue and profits may not be as good as Apple but aren't terrible either.
Surface needs to be sufficiently successful to resist significant erosion of laptops in the workplace. This is the same as Intel needing to reduce x86 power efficiencies to keep ARM from making major inroads in the server market. Both companies appear to be successful enough at doing both things. The TDP on x86 is amazingly low for what they can do.
Surface revenue was $1.1B for Q3 2016 so it's not bad. iPad revenues were $4.9B in Q3 2016 and Microsoft probably has rough parity in terms of business sales.
ARM is ubiquitous and at lower prices and margins than Intel will go with x86. It's likely that Apple could peel off a significant portion of the entry laptop market with an ARM offering a couple of generations out. Google has been very successful with Chromebooks, and this too is peeling off some of the laptop market from MS and its OEM's.
The key to Apple's success with an iOS notebook, an ARMBook if you will, would be the pro applications that would need to be created, but if the market is large enough when including iPhones and iPads, that developers will do that.
The iPad Pro with keyboard is just another iteration of Apple getting its feet wet in the ARM notebook market.
Then there's the Windows privacy issues;
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/18/windows_10_needs_proper_privacy_portal_says_eff/