Apple followed LEGAL Tax Laws!!! Apple didn't put the loopholes into the tax code, the politicians did. Now they want to change the rules and steal money from company's. That's exactly what they are doing, Government stealing. Really, it's nothing new.
You want to change the rules and close the loopholes, great, the extra taxes taken start at that point forward. I don't have a problem with that. American company's will slowly start to leave where it makes the most sense.
Not really, if you for example claimed additional benefits from the government for several years (knowingly or not), once found out you are expected to pay back those benefits retrospectively. It's not forgotten about. Likewise here, Apple (granted, not of their own doing) used the Irish government's illegal tax break to pay less taxes across the whole of Europe, maybe farther. The ruling body (EU in this case) has investigated and will likely declare it illegal state aid and demand the correct taxes be back dated appropriately and collected by the Irish government (not the EU - they don't gain from the tax other than any potential fines).
This is not a moral dilema if the tax break was illegal. It's not like hiding money in the Cayman Islands etc.
They are using a law designed to stop countries giving state aid (a law itself dubiously and infrequently applied) which normally means actual aid in money transferred to a company, something that most countries do to many different companies and of course banks, and applied it to a tax break which is a new usage of that same law.
My guess is Apple might try and get a quick deal with the treasury to repatriate the money from those years, at the Irish rate (12.5%) if this goes through.
apple has long had a large presence in Ireland. Right now, that's over 6,000 people, with that number due to expand further. Considering the population of Ireland, that's a large percentage, and makes Apple one of the largest employers in Ireland.
Ireland's population is roughly 4.6million. 6000 employees is 0.13% of the population, hardly a large percentage. Even the discount clothing store Primark has 4000 employees in Eire. Kerry Group (a dairy company) has 24000 employees, CRH has 89000+ employees, Ryanair, the budget airline has over 9500 employees. Smurfit Kappa employs 43000+ irish while Allergan has 30000 strong workforce in the country. Don't kid yourself thinking Apple is the BIG player, Google has the same 6000 employee figure there too, even the betting company Paddy Power has more at 7000 employees.
And Apple doesnt really employ that many Irish people in Cork, as the jobs are support for Europe, Asia and Africa for which they prefer native speakers, although of course they do contribute to the tax take and the economy,
Not really, if you for example claimed additional benefits from the government for several years (knowingly or not), once found out you are expected to pay back those benefits retrospectively. It's not forgotten about. Likewise here, Apple (granted, not of their own doing) used the Irish government's illegal tax break to pay less taxes across the whole of Europe, maybe farther. The ruling body (EU in this case) has investigated and will likely declare it illegal state aid and demand the correct taxes be back dated appropriately and collected by the Irish government (not the EU - they don't gain from the tax other than any potential fines).
This is not a moral dilema if the tax break was illegal. It's not like hiding money in the Cayman Islands etc.
They are using a law designed to stop countries giving state aid (a law itself dubiously and infrequently applied) which normally means actual aid in money transferred to a company, something that most countries do to many different companies and of course banks, and applied it to a tax break which is a new usage of that same law.
My guess is Apple might try and get a quick deal with the treasury to repatriate the money from those years, at the Irish rate (12.5%) if this goes through.
If the deal is found to breach the rules Apple would still have to pay back the money to Ireland. Regardless if they repatriated the money to the USA. They'd also probably be on the hook for fines which under EU laws can go up to 10% of revenue. So if they are found guilty of receiving state aid and after any appeals they'd would pay what is owed, how much this would be is anyone's guess.
No the EU is investigating the charge that Apple had a deal that constituted to state aid which was not the same as other companies had access to which contravenes the rules. It's not changing the rules it's looking to see if the rules weren't enforced.
That's not quite true. But even so, it's taking the authority of individual countries into its own hands which isn't part of EU law. What Ireland did is the same thing we see states, counties and cities doing all the time. They give breaks to companies in order to have them move some operations into the area. This is done in Europe as well.
Actually that's not true. Subsidies are part of EU law and have to be approved. If Ireland created tax loopholes specifically to subsidise companies in order to lure them into their country that's illegal and this is exactly what is under investigation here.
The EU has mostly been targeting American companies.
DOH, of course! Those loopholes only work for overseas countries and provide the largest benefits for tech companies of a certain size which is exactly why you'll find the who-is-who of American companies there. There's little to no tax benefit for European companies to move to Ireland and it seems that Asian companies also have little incentive to move there -- though I have no explanation for why that is.
if this were France or Germany, this investigation never would have happened, as that two do whatever they want.
That is utter bullshit. The reason why the investigations target countries like Ireland, the Netherlands, Luxembourg etc. is because they have those fancy loopholes. Why do you think that all those fancy tax avoidance constructs like a "Double Irish with Dutch sandwich" exist and there're pretty much none involving most other European countries (including Italy, France, Germany, Portugal, Spain, Hungary, ... just to name a few of the bigger ones)...
Geesh, new estimates peg the potential Apple tax liability from this at as much as $19B?? That's a heck of a lot more than the previous estimates of $8B.
Geesh, new estimates peg the potential Apple tax liability from this at as much as $19B?? That's a heck of a lot more than the previous estimates of $8B.
Those estimates are wrong, and laughable. Just more BS to drive the stock price down.
"However, the European Union, the European Commission, is not able to dictate to the member nations what corporate taxation laws should be. It is, however, allowed to involve itself in (in fact tasked with) policing illegal state aid. This is where one company is offered preferential treatment: and a preferential tax rate is considered to be a form of that state aid which may indeed be illegal."
"That point being that the structure is in fact the Double Irish. There is one Irish company which is Irish taxable: there’s another Irish company which is not Irish taxable. And the profits from the first are sent off as royalties for the use of intellectual property into the second. That second Irish company, being not Irish resident, is not Irish taxable (Ireland operates a territorial tax system which makes this so).
This structure is available to all: it is not preferential. Thus it is not and cannot be state aid."
What Apple is doing is NOT state aid since the double Irish was available to EVERY OTHER COMPANY IN IRELAND. So Apple did not get preferrential treatment, thus no state aid.
That article's author did say he might have to eat his hat since he might be wrong.
One obvious claim of his that may be wrong is the "available to every other company in Ireland" claim. As I read it Apple could not avoid Irish taxes if it did not claim the Irish subsidiary was directly managed from the US. It's a combination of specific phrasing in US tax laws combined with a the Irish allowance for tax treatment of wholly owned subsidiaries that makes it possible. Few ( perhaps no?) other companies in Ireland have have any legal (?) method of claiming no tax residency in any county on the planet and can thus avoid taxation entirely if they choose to. As an aside there's also three Apple-owned companies involved in it to make it all possible, not two. And
To further muddy the waters it was reported as long as three years ago that those Apple subsidiaries had paid some taxes to the Irish in years past. It's only been in relatively recent ones (IIRC since 2006) that they have not. That would imply that Apple at least at some point in time thought they were obliged to pay some taxes to the Irish based on the profits from those subsidiaries. In recent years something changed.
One last thought on this too. If the EU can successfully claim the right to fine a company 10% of it's world-wide revenue if violating certain competition laws and not just the European revenues I would not be so certain they will not find a way to claim the right to taxes on the "non-tax resident in any country" Apple subsidiaries.
Geesh, new estimates peg the potential Apple tax liability from this at as much as $19B?? That's a heck of a lot more than the previous estimates of $8B.
Those estimates are wrong, and laughable. Just more BS to drive the stock price down.
"However, the European Union, the European Commission, is not able to dictate to the member nations what corporate taxation laws should be. It is, however, allowed to involve itself in (in fact tasked with) policing illegal state aid. This is where one company is offered preferential treatment: and a preferential tax rate is considered to be a form of that state aid which may indeed be illegal."
"That point being that the structure is in fact the Double Irish. There is one Irish company which is Irish taxable: there’s another Irish company which is not Irish taxable. And the profits from the first are sent off as royalties for the use of intellectual property into the second. That second Irish company, being not Irish resident, is not Irish taxable (Ireland operates a territorial tax system which makes this so).
This structure is available to all: it is not preferential. Thus it is not and cannot be state aid."
What Apple is doing is NOT state aid since the double Irish was available to EVERY OTHER COMPANY IN IRELAND. So Apple did not get preferrential treatment, thus no state aid.
That article's author did say he might have to eat his hat since he might be wrong.
The fact is this: The EU cannot tell Ireland what tax policy it must use. Ireland can charge Apple a 0% tax and the EU can't do a single thing about it. NOT A DAMN THING.
As long as Ireland allows every other corporation to have that same 0% tax...
Then you may have a moot argument. This is not a tax avoidance strategy available to every other corporation is it? In fact it may be unique to Apple alone as it reportedly relies on some very old agreements from back in the 80's and used for a liberal interpretation of US tax laws on transfer pricing, and then combined with special taxing arrangements with some Irish officials.
Here's an article that I see as a more reliable explanation of how it's all done. If accurate t should be plain to you that Apple is in a unique position to take advantage of it. Of course if this avoidance strategy falls apart there are others used by the likes of Facebook and Google and Microsoft tho perhaps not quite as effective. http://www.forbes.com/sites/leesheppard/2013/05/28/how-does-apple-avoid-taxes/#2e31123dd6f7
The fact is this: The EU cannot tell Ireland what tax policy it must use. Ireland can charge Apple a 0% tax and the EU can't do a single thing about it. NOT A DAMN THING.
Not quite true. The household of any country in the EU must be self-sufficient and (in theory) hold up to the stability criteria. If Ireland could actually do that with a 0% corporate tax that would be nothing short of a miracle... In addition to that Ireland was in an IMF and EU bailout program until 2013 and during that time the laws were under big scrutiny...
What the EU can tax is the profits/sales actual made in IRELAND. In other words iPhones actually sold in Ireland. That is where the $20 million fine is coming from.
I think Apple was charged only 2% for actually Ireland profits. The standard rate is 12%. So Apple will probably have to pay that 10% tax on Ireland profits only. Which is very small. LOL.
Not sold in Ireland but sold from Ireland which is actually a big chunk of the European sales except for the App Store, and by far not just phones...
The claim isnt the double Irish, its some other specific deal that the EU is claiming was a specific agreement with the Irish authorities.
What deal was that?
Is that the 2% tax instead of 12% tax on sales actually made in Ireland? If so then the back taxes will only be about $200 million not $19 billion.
About 95% of the tax savings Apple gets is from the Double Irish and specific US tax law. The EU can't touch that since that provision has been available to ALL COMPANIES FOR DECADES. And the EU cannot go after Apple for US tax laws that Apple was grandfathered into.
EU has ZERO jurisdiction for questioning Irish tax law (Double Irish) or US tax law (checked box exception)
You may need to wait just another month to find what the EU final ruling has to say. They already found enough compelling evidence to do the formal investigation.
How dare the EU investigate a potential breach of the rules and omg then enforce any ruling. There is no punitive recovery if the deal between Apple and Ireland is found to breach the rules.
The problem is that if there was any wrongdoing, it was on the part of Ireland, or the Irish government, not Apple. However, the EU wants to punish Apple.
This is a money grab on the part of the EU, plain and simple. They're thieves and racketeers operating under the color of law.
There are a lot of immature Euros on here who don't understand the most rudimentary foundation of business... Whatever local community or city or state decides to do with a company is up to them. To have some arbitrary regulatory body create rules and apply them retroactively is unethical at best, but some Euros insist on cheering on this political stupidity
Article 107 of the TFEU (formerly 87 of the TEC) is the law that prohibits state aid as incompatible with competitiveness. It is not being applied retroactively, it's been there for a long time.
And as noted, it is something no country follows! Can you say "Airbus"?
How dare the EU investigate a potential breach of the rules and omg then enforce any ruling. There is no punitive recovery if the deal between Apple and Ireland is found to breach the rules.
The problem is that if there was any wrongdoing, it was on the part of Ireland, or the Irish government, not Apple. However, the EU wants to punish Apple.
This is a money grab on the part of the EU, plain and simple. They're thieves and racketeers operating under the color of law.
Does the EU Commission get that money? Not as far as I know. I don't believe the taxes paid will go anywhere but the Irish government. The EU's interest is in better leveling the playing field so that everyone operates under the same rules as much as is practical.
Surely you don't think that small up and coming companies should be at even more of a disadvantage in becoming profitable compared to big multinationals who already struck it rich, partially by avoiding the corporate taxes that smaller (or even quite large) companies cannot. If all companies paid their fair share it might even result in you and me paying less in personal taxes that we have no way to entirely avoid like Apple, Google et al can. IMO the very rich are rich enough and becoming yet richer has no benefit to us peons. At some point it just becomes greed that in fact harms us.
Its the Double Irish tax strategy that leads to the grand majority of Apple's tax savings for foreign profits.
Basically what the Double Irish does is allow multinational companies to transfer profits from a high tax country to a low tax country. In Apple's case the Double Irish allowed Apple to transfer its taxable income from high tax countries (China, Germany, ect) to a low tax country like Bermuta. Any company could have done the exact same thing(and many companies have also used the Double Irish). So Apple did not get any special treatment from Ireland. Thus the EU can do absolutely nothing regarding the Double Irish.
Please note that 95% of Apple's tax savings is coming from the Double Irish. The Double Irish is now illegal and grandfathered companies like Apple can use it till 2020.
What is in question is the profits Apple made in Ireland. In other words the profits made on iPhones actually sold in Ireland. Some documents show Apple only paid 2% tax on those profits while the standard tax rate is 12%. So Apple may have to pay the additional 10% tax if it was a tax break other companies did not have access to. In that case Apple's back taxes would only be about $200 million.
The $19 billion in back taxes being thrown around by the media is absolutely ridiculous and would never happen.
Tim Cook said they don't transfer profits to places like the Bermudas, using "gimmicks" like the Double Irish you keep referring to. So no Apple doesn't use the strategy you think they do unless Mr. Cook was lying. I believe you are a bit confused. Cook: "We don't use tax gimmicks," he said. "Apple has real operations in real places, with Apple employees selling real products to real customers. We pay all the taxes we owe, every single dollar. We don't just comply with the law, we comply with the spirit of the law." (!)
Apple has a unique strategy unlike ( and likely not available to) that used by other companies. The well-documented and reported "Double Irish" uses intellectual property licensing to transfer profits thru Ireland and then on to a lower tax country like the Bermudas. Sometimes also called Double Irish with a Dutch Sandwich. Google uses that. So does Facebook. I believe Amazon does too. Apple on the other hand found a way to run profits thru a ZERO-TAX entity. If all other companies could do so they naturally would, right? Of course if that happened personal taxpayers would have to take up the slack in tax revenues. You don't mind volunteering another 20% or 30% of your income do you so big, rich companies like Apple and Google and small companies like mine can get richer? I would certainly appreciate it so thanks in advance.
Its the Double Irish tax strategy that leads to the grand majority of Apple's tax savings for foreign profits.
Basically what the Double Irish does is allow multinational companies to transfer profits from a high tax country to a low tax country. In Apple's case the Double Irish allowed Apple to transfer its taxable income from high tax countries (China, Germany, ect) to a low tax country like Bermuta. Any company could have done the exact same thing(and many companies have also used the Double Irish). So Apple did not get any special treatment from Ireland. Thus the EU can do absolutely nothing regarding the Double Irish.
Please note that 95% of Apple's tax savings is coming from the Double Irish. The Double Irish is now illegal and grandfathered companies like Apple can use it till 2020.
What is in question is the profits Apple made in Ireland. In other words the profits made on iPhones actually sold in Ireland. Some documents show Apple only paid 2% tax on those profits while the standard tax rate is 12%. So Apple may have to pay the additional 10% tax if it was a tax break other companies did not have access to. In that case Apple's back taxes would only be about $200 million.
The $19 billion in back taxes being thrown around by the media is absolutely ridiculous and would never happen.
Tim Cook said they don't transfer profits to places like the Bermuda to use "gimmicks" like the Double Irish you keep referring to. So no Apple doesn't use the strategy you think they do unless Mr. Cook was lying. "We don't use tax gimmicks," he said. "Apple has real operations in real places, with Apple employees selling real products to real customers. We pay all the taxes we owe, every single dollar. We don't just comply with the law, we comply with the spirit of the law."
please show me a link where Cook says Apple does not use the Double Irish.
Saying 'we don't use tax gimmicks' is subjective.
"Real operations in real places, with Apple employees selling real products to real customers..." There's no Apple employees in an Apple Store in the Bermudas selling "real products to real customers" AFAIK. There's no Apple presence in the Bermudas at all other than a 3rd-party authorized reseller and a 3rd-partry authorized repair center. In fact I find no record of any Apple-owned companies operating in Bermuda. As I said, I think you're confused.
How dare the EU investigate a potential breach of the rules and omg then enforce any ruling. There is no punitive recovery if the deal between Apple and Ireland is found to breach the rules.
The problem is that if there was any wrongdoing, it was on the part of Ireland, or the Irish government, not Apple. However, the EU wants to punish Apple.
This is a money grab on the part of the EU, plain and simple. They're thieves and racketeers operating under the color of law.
If there is any money to be paid back then it goes to Ireland. Though Ireland are also saying nothing wrong has been done. The EU is just doing its responsibility to respond to potential breaking of EU law and investigating and to ensure that the EU laws are being enforced.
Its the Double Irish tax strategy that leads to the grand majority of Apple's tax savings for foreign profits.
Basically what the Double Irish does is allow multinational companies to transfer profits from a high tax country to a low tax country. In Apple's case the Double Irish allowed Apple to transfer its taxable income from high tax countries (China, Germany, ect) to a low tax country like Bermuta.
Tim Cook said they don't transfer profits to places like the Bermuda to use "gimmicks" like the Double Irish you keep referring to. So no Apple doesn't use the strategy you think they do unless Mr. Cook was lying. "We don't use tax gimmicks," he said. "Apple has real operations in real places, with Apple employees selling real products to real customers. We pay all the taxes we owe, every single dollar. We don't just comply with the law, we comply with the spirit of the law."
please show me a link where Cook says Apple does not use the Double Irish.
Saying 'we don't use tax gimmicks' is subjective.
In fact the article you linked earlier describes Apple using the Double Irish.
It doesn't as far as I can see.
I believe you're confused yet again but always possible I'm mistaken and I missed it so please quote the section where a "Double Irish" tax scheme was used to describe what Apple is doing.
From anything I've ever read Apple's tax avoidance is fairly unique and not one available to 'any company". In any event it matters not how you or I see things. You'll know is a few short weeks if Apple's tax bill will only be the $200 million you believe it will be as the EU Commission's' opinion is the only one that really counts.
U.S. Treasury Department: "But WE wanted all that Apple money! It's OURS!!!"
You got it spot on. The US Gov wants ALL of the money earned and held (legally) outside the US to be taxed as if it were held in the USA. This is all part of their quest to enforce US Law over every square inch of this planet and basically say 'up yours' to local laws in the process. The US National Debt is IMHO the reason behind this and other moves.
It would surprise me to see a move where a company supplying a US foreign subsidiary in a foreign country be the next target for IRS Tax demands. you do business with any US company anywhere on the planet and you are liable for US taxes on your worldwide operations. That won't go down very well and will IMHO make the 'New USA' of Pres Trump easier to achieve. The Isolationism of the 1930's will pale into insignificance by what could happen if the US took that road.
You should also be aware of Clinton's tax plans:
Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton would raise taxes on businesses and high-income households while making minimal changes to the after-tax incomes of those with low and moderate incomes, according to a new analysis by the Tax Policy Center. Overall, Secretary Clinton would boost federal revenues by $1.1 trillion over the next decade. Those changes would make the tax code more complex, especially for high-income households, and would reduce incentives to work, save, and invest.
People really need to understand the US now has a national debt of $19.4 TRILLION. ( http://www.usdebtclock.org )
The debt has effectively doubled during Obama's term, something unprecedented in our history. On top of this, the labor force participation rate is the lowest it's been since 1978. More crushing debt and fewer people working to pay taxes is a very, very bad combination.
Comments
My guess is Apple might try and get a quick deal with the treasury to repatriate the money from those years, at the Irish rate (12.5%) if this goes through.
And Apple doesnt really employ that many Irish people in Cork, as the jobs are support for Europe, Asia and Africa for which they prefer native speakers, although of course they do contribute to the tax take and the economy,
So if they are found guilty of receiving state aid and after any appeals they'd would pay what is owed, how much this would be is anyone's guess.
DOH, of course! Those loopholes only work for overseas countries and provide the largest benefits for tech companies of a certain size which is exactly why you'll find the who-is-who of American companies there. There's little to no tax benefit for European companies to move to Ireland and it seems that Asian companies also have little incentive to move there -- though I have no explanation for why that is. That is utter bullshit. The reason why the investigations target countries like Ireland, the Netherlands, Luxembourg etc. is because they have those fancy loopholes. Why do you think that all those fancy tax avoidance constructs like a "Double Irish with Dutch sandwich" exist and there're pretty much none involving most other European countries (including Italy, France, Germany, Portugal, Spain, Hungary, ... just to name a few of the bigger ones)...
One obvious claim of his that may be wrong is the "available to every other company in Ireland" claim. As I read it Apple could not avoid Irish taxes if it did not claim the Irish subsidiary was directly managed from the US. It's a combination of specific phrasing in US tax laws combined with a the Irish allowance for tax treatment of wholly owned subsidiaries that makes it possible. Few ( perhaps no?) other companies in Ireland have have any legal (?) method of claiming no tax residency in any county on the planet and can thus avoid taxation entirely if they choose to. As an aside there's also three Apple-owned companies involved in it to make it all possible, not two. And
To further muddy the waters it was reported as long as three years ago that those Apple subsidiaries had paid some taxes to the Irish in years past. It's only been in relatively recent ones (IIRC since 2006) that they have not. That would imply that Apple at least at some point in time thought they were obliged to pay some taxes to the Irish based on the profits from those subsidiaries. In recent years something changed.
One last thought on this too. If the EU can successfully claim the right to fine a company 10% of it's world-wide revenue if violating certain competition laws and not just the European revenues I would not be so certain they will not find a way to claim the right to taxes on the "non-tax resident in any country" Apple subsidiaries.
Here's an article that I see as a more reliable explanation of how it's all done. If accurate t should be plain to you that Apple is in a unique position to take advantage of it. Of course if this avoidance strategy falls apart there are others used by the likes of Facebook and Google and Microsoft tho perhaps not quite as effective.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/leesheppard/2013/05/28/how-does-apple-avoid-taxes/#2e31123dd6f7
Not sold in Ireland but sold from Ireland which is actually a big chunk of the European sales except for the App Store, and by far not just phones...
The result of the EU investigation might as well be that there was no foul play and no one will be fined anything... We'll see.
The problem is that if there was any wrongdoing, it was on the part of Ireland, or the Irish government, not Apple. However, the EU wants to punish Apple.
This is a money grab on the part of the EU, plain and simple. They're thieves and racketeers operating under the color of law.
Surely you don't think that small up and coming companies should be at even more of a disadvantage in becoming profitable compared to big multinationals who already struck it rich, partially by avoiding the corporate taxes that smaller (or even quite large) companies cannot. If all companies paid their fair share it might even result in you and me paying less in personal taxes that we have no way to entirely avoid like Apple, Google et al can. IMO the very rich are rich enough and becoming yet richer has no benefit to us peons. At some point it just becomes greed that in fact harms us.
Cook: "We don't use tax gimmicks," he said. "Apple has real operations in real places, with Apple employees selling real products to real customers. We pay all the taxes we owe, every single dollar. We don't just comply with the law, we comply with the spirit of the law." (!)
Apple has a unique strategy unlike ( and likely not available to) that used by other companies. The well-documented and reported "Double Irish" uses intellectual property licensing to transfer profits thru Ireland and then on to a lower tax country like the Bermudas. Sometimes also called Double Irish with a Dutch Sandwich. Google uses that. So does Facebook. I believe Amazon does too. Apple on the other hand found a way to run profits thru a ZERO-TAX entity. If all other companies could do so they naturally would, right? Of course if that happened personal taxpayers would have to take up the slack in tax revenues. You don't mind volunteering another 20% or 30% of your income do you so big, rich companies like Apple and Google and small companies like mine can get richer? I would certainly appreciate it so thanks in advance.
The EU is just doing its responsibility to respond to potential breaking of EU law and investigating and to ensure that the EU laws are being enforced.
I believe you're confused yet again but always possible I'm mistaken and I missed it so please quote the section where a "Double Irish" tax scheme was used to describe what Apple is doing.
From anything I've ever read Apple's tax avoidance is fairly unique and not one available to 'any company".
In any event it matters not how you or I see things. You'll know is a few short weeks if Apple's tax bill will only be the $200 million you believe it will be as the EU Commission's' opinion is the only one that really counts.
http://m.csmonitor.com/Business/Tax-VOX/2016/0305/What-s-in-Hillary-Clinton-s-tax-plan
People really need to understand the US now has a national debt of $19.4 TRILLION. ( http://www.usdebtclock.org )
The debt has effectively doubled during Obama's term, something unprecedented in our history. On top of this, the labor force participation rate is the lowest it's been since 1978. More crushing debt and fewer people working to pay taxes is a very, very bad combination.
Thanks, Obama!