Apple demands suppliers cut costs so they can maintain their high margins and profits, so in order for the razor thin margins the suppliers were making cut even more and in an effort to many any profits themselves they force impossible overtime demands and cut wages to insure their profits are maintained.
Sure every company has a fiduciary responsibility to insure profits to their shareholders, no problem. BUT, when you profits are dropping due to slowing demand caused by longer upgrade windows that is YOUR PROBLEM, not your suppliers problem.
Sounds like Apple has yet another winner on its hands, Greed, Abuse and Disregard for safe working conditions as they promised to do. SHOCKER, NOT!
Nothing like beating a dead horse. Nobody cares anymore. Great job, troll. You hit all the talking points your troll masters spoon fed you. Now move along.
So... if I hire a contractor to put up some sheetrock in my house I'm responsible for policing the contractor and his/her labor relations with his/her employees to ensure nobody is being exploited? .
where are the similar reports on the household TV, DVD and other consumer electronics brands? why is this about apple?
There are similar reports on other companies and some get coverage but Apple gets more for obvious reasons. The same labour watch organisation found Samsung suppliers were using child workers a few years back so Samsung ditched them. We are all responsible for the products we consume, Apple or Android or the shoes you wear. These NGOs do amazing work to let us know what is happening so companies can take action and consumers can boycott if they don't. Take off the Apple glasses for a minute and consider how lucky you are to have been born into a situation that means you are buying the phone, not assembling it.
I've been to rural china and my commentary isn't about the birth lottery. it's about the fact that chinese factories build anything & everything, that their labor produces scores of goods filling everyone's homes, yet these reports are about Apple and iPhones, despite apple being the only US company i know to have a comprehensive audit system in place and very clearly cares and tries more than any other household good brand i can think of. thus i think it's dishonest.
So... if I hire a contractor to put up some sheetrock in my house I'm responsible for policing the contractor and his/her labor relations with his/her employees to ensure nobody is being exploited? .
where are the similar reports on the household TV, DVD and other consumer electronics brands? why is this about apple?
There are similar reports on other companies and some get coverage but Apple gets more for obvious reasons. The same labour watch organisation found Samsung suppliers were using child workers a few years back so Samsung ditched them. We are all responsible for the products we consume, Apple or Android or the shoes you wear. These NGOs do amazing work to let us know what is happening so companies can take action and consumers can boycott if they don't. Take off the Apple glasses for a minute and consider how lucky you are to have been born into a situation that means you are buying the phone, not assembling it.
I've been to rural china and my commentary isn't about the birth lottery. it's about the fact that chinese factories build anything & everything, that their labor produces scores of goods filling everyone's homes, yet these reports are about Apple and iPhones, despite apple being the only US company i know to have a comprehensive audit system in place and very clearly cares and tries more than any other household good brand i can think of. thus i think it's dishonest.
This specific report that was reported on an Apple news site, yes, is about Apple. But the group has reports on their web site on plenty of brands - Samsung, McDonalds, Tesco, and even Lenovo. They recently reported doubts about Samsung's corporate responsibility report. It's not overly surprising that they would come down hard on Apple if they think they need to change - they are the biggest brand and the easiest way to effect change is by going after the big guys, both in terms of publicity and impact if things improve. I would expect Apple will respond to this and that's a good thing, the systems works. Public opinion matters.
I don't understand why anyone would have such a problem with a human rights group highlighting possible human rights violations. Apple shouldn't be able to get away with letting outsourced, offshored workers be treated so much worse than we would tolerate if it was done inhouse and in the US. I'm not arguing for equal pay but at least fair conditions.
"Human rights" groups are deluded. There is no global government with a defensible Bill of Rights for every individual on the planet. If there is no recognition of the individual, no recognition of property rights, no recognition of freedom of speech and thought, then the rest cannot follow.
So... if I hire a contractor to put up some sheetrock in my house I'm responsible for policing the contractor and his/her labor relations with his/her employees to ensure nobody is being exploited? .
where are the similar reports on the household TV, DVD and other consumer electronics brands? why is this about apple?
There are similar reports on other companies and some get coverage but Apple gets more for obvious reasons. The same labour watch organisation found Samsung suppliers were using child workers a few years back so Samsung ditched them. We are all responsible for the products we consume, Apple or Android or the shoes you wear. These NGOs do amazing work to let us know what is happening so companies can take action and consumers can boycott if they don't. Take off the Apple glasses for a minute and consider how lucky you are to have been born into a situation that means you are buying the phone, not assembling it.
I've been to rural china and my commentary isn't about the birth lottery. it's about the fact that chinese factories build anything & everything, that their labor produces scores of goods filling everyone's homes, yet these reports are about Apple and iPhones, despite apple being the only US company i know to have a comprehensive audit system in place and very clearly cares and tries more than any other household good brand i can think of. thus i think it's dishonest.
This specific report that was reported on an Apple news site, yes, is about Apple. But the group has reports on their web site on plenty of brands - Samsung, McDonalds, Tesco, and even Lenovo. They recently reported doubts about Samsung's corporate responsibility report. It's not overly surprising that they would come down hard on Apple if they think they need to change - they are the biggest brand and the easiest way to effect change is by going after the big guys, both in terms of publicity and impact if things improve. I would expect Apple will respond to this and that's a good thing, the systems works. Public opinion matters.
I don't understand why anyone would have such a problem with a human rights group highlighting possible human rights violations. Apple shouldn't be able to get away with letting outsourced, offshored workers be treated so much worse than we would tolerate if it was done inhouse and in the US. I'm not arguing for equal pay but at least fair conditions.
Also Apple has touted it self as this do-gooder flaunting it's regard for the environment and human rights all which affect its brand and how it's customer's relate to its products, so it's only fare in my opinion that Apple be the most judge and held to a higher standard, if they are gonna go out there and boast about how great their products are and manufactured in the most environmentally friendly way then they should back that up, in reality no other company talks so high and mighty as Apple but making beryllium and arsenic free products can not be through the exploitation of people less fortunate I would hope Apple holds its self to a higher standard than that, the entire excuse being thrown around here that " well other companies are even worse and why aren't they being mentioned ?" is BS Apple isn't other companies it's Apple they should already have 100% automated production on all products because,of any other,they are the most capable of this, the apple watch was the perfect place to start, this should be Apple biggest priority And yes total automation would make things worse by removing employment and a souse of income for many but people can adapt they'll allwayse be things machine can't make things that require skilled hands and a human touch
So, is it still mostly House of Lords-types funneling $ through Amsterdam to CLW? Or have money boys changed since they reconstitued themselces from being the avenging angels of Brit-rule in Hong Kong?
Still the same old hustle of quarterly revelations based on secret sources - so, you needn't ever leave posh circumstances in HK.
I don't understand why anyone would have such a problem with a human rights group highlighting possible human rights violations. Apple shouldn't be able to get away with letting outsourced, offshored workers be treated so much worse than we would tolerate if it was done inhouse and in the US. I'm not arguing for equal pay but at least fair conditions.
The argument is simple. Some folks recognize that life would be far better for the average Asian factory worker if all the rest of the manufacturers were brought up to the standards Apple imposes and seeks to maintain. And yet, rather than place the spotlight on the toaster factory, the baby formula factory, the tire manufacturer, all of which undoubtedly provide far worse working conditions, by definition due to their razor thin margins throughout those supply and manufacturing chains, these watch groups and the pundits who report on them expose their true agenda by telling us how evil Apple is. It's not an agenda that has much at all to do with actually helping the vast armies of workers throughout SE Asia, but has much to do with advancing their own causes. For the watch groups, it's about bolstering their own status, and likely their funding. For the pundits it's about attracting the biggest audience, and that's done by including Apple in tne headline and creating tension and controversy.
I, and many others here, don't understand why anyone wouldn't be able to grok that.
I don't understand why anyone would have such a problem with a human rights group highlighting possible human rights violations. Apple shouldn't be able to get away with letting outsourced, offshored workers be treated so much worse than we would tolerate if it was done inhouse and in the US. I'm not arguing for equal pay but at least fair conditions.
The argument is simple. Some folks recognize that life would be far better for the average Asian factory worker if all the rest of the manufacturers were brought up to the standards Apple imposes and seeks to maintain. And yet, rather than place the spotlight on the toaster factory, the baby formula factory, the tire manufacturer, all of which undoubtedly provide far worse working conditions, by definition due to their razor thin margins throughout those supply and manufacturing chains, these watch groups and the pundits who report on them expose their true agenda by telling us how evil Apple is. It's not an agenda that has much at all to do with actually helping the vast armies of workers throughout SE Asia, but has much to do with advancing their own causes. For the watch groups, it's about bolstering their own status, and likely their funding. For the pundits it's about attracting the biggest audience, and that's done by including Apple in tne headline and creating tension and controversy.
I, and many others here, don't understand why anyone wouldn't be able to grok that.
What matters in China is the Party. The individual is unimportant.
So... if I hire a contractor to put up some sheetrock in my house I'm responsible for policing the contractor and his/her labor relations with his/her employees to ensure nobody is being exploited? .
where are the similar reports on the household TV, DVD and other consumer electronics brands? why is this about apple?
There are similar reports on other companies and some get coverage but Apple gets more for obvious reasons. The same labour watch organisation found Samsung suppliers were using child workers a few years back so Samsung ditched them. We are all responsible for the products we consume, Apple or Android or the shoes you wear. These NGOs do amazing work to let us know what is happening so companies can take action and consumers can boycott if they don't. Take off the Apple glasses for a minute and consider how lucky you are to have been born into a situation that means you are buying the phone, not assembling it.
I've been to rural china and my commentary isn't about the birth lottery. it's about the fact that chinese factories build anything & everything, that their labor produces scores of goods filling everyone's homes, yet these reports are about Apple and iPhones, despite apple being the only US company i know to have a comprehensive audit system in place and very clearly cares and tries more than any other household good brand i can think of. thus i think it's dishonest.
This specific report that was reported on an Apple news site, yes, is about Apple. But the group has reports on their web site on plenty of brands - Samsung, McDonalds, Tesco, and even Lenovo. They recently reported doubts about Samsung's corporate responsibility report. It's not overly surprising that they would come down hard on Apple if they think they need to change - they are the biggest brand and the easiest way to effect change is by going after the big guys, both in terms of publicity and impact if things improve. I would expect Apple will respond to this and that's a good thing, the systems works. Public opinion matters.
I don't understand why anyone would have such a problem with a human rights group highlighting possible human rights violations. Apple shouldn't be able to get away with letting outsourced, offshored workers be treated so much worse than we would tolerate if it was done inhouse and in the US. I'm not arguing for equal pay but at least fair conditions.
1) I don't know that id say I "have a problem with" human rights groups...but I do think it's intellectually dishonest to target the one company that's actually working on the problem. we've all see apple's reports and process for trying to keep their vendors honest. have you seen the same from other brands? your TV maker? speakers maker? DVD builder? picture frames, lamps, etc etc....all from China, and I've never seen a single document or website from any of these other brands detailing what they're trying to do to make things better. I have seen such documents from Apple. thus it doesn't make sense to continue to bash Apple, the one group trying to do it right.
2) if you're asking or expecting offshore, outsourced workers to enjoy the same working conditions as US workers, prepare not to get it, perhaps ever.
I don't understand why anyone would have such a problem with a human rights group highlighting possible human rights violations. Apple shouldn't be able to get away with letting outsourced, offshored workers be treated so much worse than we would tolerate if it was done inhouse and in the US. I'm not arguing for equal pay but at least fair conditions.
The argument is simple. Some folks recognize that life would be far better for the average Asian factory worker if all the rest of the manufacturers were brought up to the standards Apple imposes and seeks to maintain. And yet, rather than place the spotlight on the toaster factory, the baby formula factory, the tire manufacturer, all of which undoubtedly provide far worse working conditions, by definition due to their razor thin margins throughout those supply and manufacturing chains, these watch groups and the pundits who report on them expose their true agenda by telling us how evil Apple is. It's not an agenda that has much at all to do with actually helping the vast armies of workers throughout SE Asia, but has much to do with advancing their own causes. For the watch groups, it's about bolstering their own status, and likely their funding. For the pundits it's about attracting the biggest audience, and that's done by including Apple in tne headline and creating tension and controversy.
I, and many others here, don't understand why anyone wouldn't be able to grok that.
I don't understand why anyone would have such a problem with a human rights group highlighting possible human rights violations. Apple shouldn't be able to get away with letting outsourced, offshored workers be treated so much worse than we would tolerate if it was done inhouse and in the US. I'm not arguing for equal pay but at least fair conditions.
The argument is simple. Some folks recognize that life would be far better for the average Asian factory worker if all the rest of the manufacturers were brought up to the standards Apple imposes and seeks to maintain. And yet, rather than place the spotlight on the toaster factory, the baby formula factory, the tire manufacturer, all of which undoubtedly provide far worse working conditions, by definition due to their razor thin margins throughout those supply and manufacturing chains, these watch groups and the pundits who report on them expose their true agenda by telling us how evil Apple is. It's not an agenda that has much at all to do with actually helping the vast armies of workers throughout SE Asia, but has much to do with advancing their own causes. For the watch groups, it's about bolstering their own status, and likely their funding. For the pundits it's about attracting the biggest audience, and that's done by including Apple in tne headline and creating tension and controversy.
I, and many others here, don't understand why anyone wouldn't be able to grok that.
So you prefer this report be buried and never brought to light because there are other companies manufacturing in China who are far worse than Apple ? Or that any time anything negative is published about Apple the far greater short comings of others precede the reporting ? This is the problem with some Apple fans they think Apple is infallible,Apple presents it self as a highly responsible business and makes it a point to boast about it and that makes it more subject to scrutiny, if one claims to be holy then judgement upon them is not uncalled for. Yes Apple's efforts in this area are comandable and worthy of praise but that does not entitle them deplomatic immunity, no one here is arguing whether these reports are true or not but many are going on about how evil the people who compiled the reports are because you know Apple does so much good that nothing negative should ever be said about them true or not, I think a step back and reassessment of values is in order
1) I don't know that id say I "have a problem with" human rights groups...but I do think it's intellectually dishonest to target the one company that's actually working on the problem. we've all see apple's reports and process for trying to keep their vendors honest. have you seen the same from other brands? your TV maker? speakers maker? DVD builder? picture frames, lamps, etc etc....all from China, and I've never seen a single document or website from any of these other brands detailing what they're trying to do to make things better. I have seen such documents from Apple. thus it doesn't make sense to continue to bash Apple, the one group trying to do it right.
2) if you're asking or expecting offshore, outsourced workers to enjoy the same working conditions as US workers, prepare not to get it, perhaps ever.
I'm not sure how this report or it's perceived intention is dishonest
I don't think anyone is arguing that Apple isnt doing good work the report just highlights that much is still need in that regard and I don't think that that is bashing Apple in all honesty no one gives a dam about all the manufactures you mentioned because well they aren't Apple no other tech company is more beloved the response on this forum alone proves it news is about things people care about the article is not the word of God it is a piece of written work design to solicit interest in it crafted to provoke so that it stand out from all the digital nois but I feel it's core message is a valid one and worth noting Apple isn't perfect and it isn't nice to publicly point out its flaws but like celebrities if you're wearing the jersey and on the field of play you're fare game
So... if I hire a contractor to put up some sheetrock in my house I'm responsible for policing the contractor and his/her labor relations with his/her employees to ensure nobody is being exploited? .
where are the similar reports on the household TV, DVD and other consumer electronics brands? why is this about apple?
1) I don't know that id say I "have a problem with" human rights groups...but I do think it's intellectually dishonest to target the one company that's actually working on the problem. we've all see apple's reports and process for trying to keep their vendors honest. have you seen the same from other brands? your TV maker? speakers maker? DVD builder? picture frames, lamps, etc etc....all from China, and I've never seen a single document or website from any of these other brands detailing what they're trying to do to make things better. I have seen such documents from Apple. thus it doesn't make sense to continue to bash Apple, the one group trying to do it right.
2) if you're asking or expecting offshore, outsourced workers to enjoy the same working conditions as US workers, prepare not to get it, perhaps ever.
I can't be bothered formatting it but here are the brands they have reports on. The companies that make my PCs, phones, TVs, clothes, shoes, light bulbs, and cutlery are on there. Apple may get the spotlight from the media but they are not being unfairly targeted by the watch dog. And if they are, as the biggest company, they have the biggest responsibility. As does McD's, as does Disney, as does MS. Tim Cook won't shy away from it so I don't think the Apple fans should either. I actually think your point is valid - it's dishonest to target only one company if everyone is doing it - but I don't think they are the only ones being targeted. All of the big brands are watched, and so they should be. Read the report on Disney, if it's true, it's worth us knowing how badly the people who make our products are treated. Apple and Disney are in a position to demand improving conditions and we should condemn for inaction and applaud them when inevitably they improve.
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I think China Labor Watch should be located IN CHINA, not New York and then they should attempt to criticize companies and Chinese labor policies to push their agenda. Pretty sure the leaders of their organization would end up in prison immediately.
So... if I hire a contractor to put up some sheetrock in my house I'm responsible for policing the contractor and his/her labor relations with his/her employees to ensure nobody is being exploited? .
where are the similar reports on the household TV, DVD and other consumer electronics brands? why is this about apple?
There is a difference between a private person having some one-off work done and the the relationship between the biggest corporation on the planet and the manufacturers that make it's bread and butter product. You can't be expected to check up on every contractor but Apple has the resources/responsibility to monitor work practices in its supply chain. You'd be the first one on here complaining about Samsung employees getting cancer but Apple gets a free pass.
There are similar reports on other companies and some get coverage but Apple gets more for obvious reasons. The same labour watch organisation found Samsung suppliers were using child workers a few years back so Samsung ditched them. We are all responsible for the products we consume, Apple or Android or the shoes you wear. These NGOs do amazing work to let us know what is happening so companies can take action and consumers can boycott if they don't. Take off the Apple glasses for a minute and consider how lucky you are to have been born into a situation that means you are buying the phone, not assembling it.
There is almost none, why? Because going after Apple brings in the media, if an employee works in a shithole to produces crap for a dollar store or wallmart, which is the lot of most employees in those countries, you won't here about it until the building falls on their head like in Bangladesh. Employees that produce Apple products are at the top of the food chain for this kind of job and those jobs are SOUGHT AFTER, even if they know they're hard. Why? The other jobs are 10 times harder.
I find the whole thing condescending towards those employees to be honest. Smacks of "white man's burden" kind of thinking : "Lets save them from themselves the poor little naive fools" (sic).
The real objective is not really to save those people, but to justify bashing trade deals in their name...
OMG they found a messy room visually indistinct from almost any teenagers room. Fire Tim! Get Eddie Cue on the line! SELL the stock!!!
OMG! I get to live at work and share every minute of my life with co-workers! How Awesome! It's just like being a teenager again! I especially love the prison mattress and the luxurious amount of space for me to live! Does it come in get me the fuck out of here? I'm sure they have an open bed if you can hack it.
A post one would expect of someone who has never been to China.
A post one would expect from someone who seems to have no empathy for the human condition. WTF does the link have to do with what you posted? Please, explain to me why anyone would want their life to be work and then live with the people you work with in that small space. Yeah, it can always be worse, but that doesn't mean Chinese workers are loving the situation. People do what they have to do to eat/survive. Did you misunderstand my post? I'm sure they have an open bed if you can hack the "cultural experience."
A post one would expect from someone who seems to have no empathy for the human condition. WTF does the link have to do with what you posted? Please, explain to me why anyone would want their life to be work and then live with the people you work with in that small space. Yeah, it can always be worse, but that doesn't mean Chinese workers are loving the situation. People do what they have to do to eat/survive. Did you misunderstand my post? I'm sure they have an open bed if you can hack the "cultural experience."
My understanding of your post is that you are uninformed.
A post one would expect from someone who seems to have no empathy for the human condition. WTF does the link have to do with what you posted? Please, explain to me why anyone would want their life to be work and then live with the people you work with in that small space. Yeah, it can always be worse, but that doesn't mean Chinese workers are loving the situation. People do what they have to do to eat/survive. Did you misunderstand my post? I'm sure they have an open bed if you can hack the "cultural experience."
My understanding of your post is that you are uninformed.
Are you talking to yourself? I'm pretty sure if you have been there you took the Mitt Romney tour.
Comments
I don't understand why anyone would have such a problem with a human rights group highlighting possible human rights violations. Apple shouldn't be able to get away with letting outsourced, offshored workers be treated so much worse than we would tolerate if it was done inhouse and in the US. I'm not arguing for equal pay but at least fair conditions.
And yes total automation would make things worse by removing employment and a souse of income for many but people can adapt they'll allwayse be things machine can't make things that require skilled hands and a human touch
Still the same old hustle of quarterly revelations based on secret sources - so, you needn't ever leave posh circumstances in HK.
I, and many others here, don't understand why anyone wouldn't be able to grok that.
2) if you're asking or expecting offshore, outsourced workers to enjoy the same working conditions as US workers, prepare not to get it, perhaps ever.
bingo. nailed it.
2) if you're asking or expecting offshore, outsourced workers to enjoy the same working conditions as US workers, prepare not to get it, perhaps ever. I'm not sure how this report or it's perceived intention is dishonest
I don't think anyone is arguing that Apple isnt doing good work the report just highlights that much is still need in that regard and I don't think that that is bashing Apple in all honesty no one gives a dam about all the manufactures you mentioned because well they aren't Apple no other tech company is more beloved the response on this forum alone proves it news is about things people care about the article is not the word of God it is a piece of written work design to solicit interest in it crafted to provoke so that it stand out from all the digital nois but I feel it's core message is a valid one and worth noting Apple isn't perfect and it isn't nice to publicly point out its flaws but like celebrities if you're wearing the jersey and on the field of play you're fare game
Abercrombie & Fitch Adidas AMCAmerican Eagle Ann Taylor AppleArmani Exchange AT&T Bali IntimatesBanana Republic Bandai BattatBerghaus Bergner Betmar HatsBYD Calvin Klein CarlsbergCarrefour Cerruti 1881 ClarksClas Ohlson Coca-Cola ConforamaCrayola Crofton CuisinartCuisine Sante International Cuisinox DelimanoDell Disney Dollar GeneralEleture Ericsson FarberwareFila Fisher-Price FontignacFoxconn Galeria Gam'HotelGAP Garfield Giorgio ArmaniGlorious GMA GreenPanHaier HALTI HanesbrandsHarry Potter Hasbro Hello KittyHome Depot Hooligan Rabbit HPHuawei Hugo Boss IBCIBM Ikea IntertekJ.Crew Jakks Pacific John VarvatosKFC KKR Kohl'sKonig Kuhn Rikon LagostinaLaguiole Lenovo Liz ClaiborneMasonite Master MattelMcDonald's MGA Entertainment MicrosoftMobelix Momscook Morphy RichardsMountain Hardwear/MHW Mustchef NECNew Balance Nike NintendoNokia NSI Toys NuwaveOppein OPPO PadernoPaul Smith Pepsi PhilipsPiege Co (Felina Lingerie) Polaris Princess HousePuma Quiksilver ReebokRegina Miracle Russel Hobbes SabatierSalcomp Salomon SamsungSanrio Schoffel Sesame StreetSnoopy Sola SonySpeedo Stanley Rogers SUSTakara Talbot TargetTarzan TCL TCMTesco TESCOMA TimberlandTupperware Twin-Star VollrathWalcoal America Walmart WincoWMF Zwilling
I find the whole thing condescending towards those employees to be honest. Smacks of "white man's burden" kind of thinking : "Lets save them from themselves the poor little naive fools" (sic).
The real objective is not really to save those people, but to justify bashing trade deals in their name...