I need to get a laptop for my son (high school). I'm having a hard time choosing between macbook air and the surface pro 4. Of course we want it to last through high school and beyond. I know this is pro Apple comments but some good advice would be appreciated.
Speaking purely from a hardware reliability standpoint: When my youngest went to college, I bought her a refurb MabBook Pro 13" that still serves her well five years later (Photoshop, video production, etc.).
My spouse got the same deal, a refurb MBP 13"... still going strong. And my Mac mini (same vintage) continues to chug along reliably.
None of these have suffered a hardware failure of any kind.
My son, on the other hand, declined a Mac because he saw himself as an elite gamer, and took the gifted funds to build his own PC from select components. Since that time, he has upgraded some of them at least once (power supply, bleeding-edge graphics card, memory, etc.).
In my experience (as someone who spent my fair share of dollars and time creating PCs), gamer-types would be frustrated with a Mac.
If Apple doesn't come up with a Mac Pro that meets my needs within the next year I suspect I'll replace my Mac Pro with a combination of an iMac and a headless Linux box that will be devoted entirely to running R. I'd much rather spend that money on a Mac, but that just might not be possible.
I'm not a big fan of the current Mac Pro either. They make a small can with hidden ports to cut down on desk clutter and cables, but pro users are then going to have tons of peripherals anyway, like break out boxes, hard drives, and probably even DVD, since none of that can go inside anymore, and the ports are difficult to access unless you turn it around which defeats the whole purpose of the design. I like the front facing FW, USB, audio ports on the old model. The new one has small internal storage too and you can't really put it under the desk like old version, plus the fan at the very bottom could easily get obstructed with papers or cables which could affect cooling. The color doesn't match anything else that Apple makes, and I agree, they should have a new 4K/5K standalone monitor to go with it. The single CPU is actually a little slow because the more cores you add the slower the clock speed. The 4 core is actually faster than the 6 core for routine low intensity work like copying files or opening windows because it is clocked faster and routine work doesn't take advantage of multiple cores anyway. Having two 4 cores clocked higher would be better in my opinion. Every pro I have talked to would rather have the same old tower with updated internals.
I'm not at all sold on the Surface Pro concept. At least Microsoft is pushing their products forward. The Mac is standing still. (I know... maybe better to be standing still than moving forward in the wrong direction, but from a marketing standpoint, standing still is deadly)
Apple seem to be sold on it. Since the Surface, Apple have made a big thing of adding pen support and an easily docked keyboard to their iPad line. We have even had articles claiming an iPad can replace a laptop. I know a keyboard was available with the original iPad but it wasn't heavily featured.
The message I'm getting from Apple is that they are confused. They don't seem to know how to advance the Mac, and so they just aren't. They want the iPad to be used for work, and so they are trying everything they can to make that happen..... but it feels more like a "throw stuff against the wall to see what sticks" approach rather than a coherent strategy. Given how well Apple usually communicates its strategies, I take a lack of clear communication to mean a lack of clear strategy.
But hey... prove me wrong, guys -- prove mew wrong!
My own opinion on the Mac is that Apple is hamstrung by Intel, and x86. Most of the potential updates that Apple could have made to the Mac would have required custom solutions for USB 3.1 Type C 10 Gb and Thunderbolt 3. Now, the only issue expected is that TB 3 won't support greater than a 4k screen per port because Intel hasn't adopted the latest HDMI/DP standards. I get that Apple wants to let the "river flow to us" rather than create custom interface solutions for Intel processors.
At the same time, Apple has demonstrated tremendous capability for advanced design of there Mac Book and Mac Book Pro hardware, so expect some leading edge technology, especially on storage and memory bandwidth.
As for the Pencil, most users would describe it as the closest to actual analog tools. I expect that Apple will add functionality to the Pencil over time, and as they master the miniaturization of the electronics package, more battery life. Hardly a throw it against the wall strategy, and the Pencil has likely been on the roadmap since the inception, waiting for the technology to allow the best experience, and keyboards have been available from the first release of the iPad. Not seeing much "throw stuff at the wall" here.
My view is that Apple should not allow itself to be hamstrung by Intel. Apple has the financial and technological resources needed to move the Mac forward without waiting for Intel. There should be a standalone 5k 27" monitor from Apple right now, today, along with a lineup of Macs that can support it. Apple could make that happen, but instead they sit around like some brain-dead Dell or HP and wait for Intel to do the work for them. Lame.
Also, there are plenty of useful things that could be added to the Mac that have nothing to do with Intel. TouchID is one example. OLED-touch controls is another.
I like the idea of the pencil. But it feels "throw against the wall" in the sense that it doesn't come with the iPad Pro, which cuts it off at the knees in terms of developer support. It's a good idea that Apple isn't fully getting behind. It's like they introduced both the pencil and the keyboard as optional extras because they'd didn't really know which was the future of the device, so they're just going to let people decide. In my view, the pencil is the logical "pro" UI upgrade for the iPad, not the keyboard. Apple should have made the pencil standard, they should have put a lot of resources into first-party support as well as fostering third party support, and they should have made the keyboard the optional extra for the people who really need it. Meh.
But don't you think that Apple would be forcing the product to be a niche as in actively targeted at people who'd have a need of a pencil ? The fact is that most people just don't use the iPad that way it's mostly pro illustrators who really benefit from the pencil selling it with the iPad would add cost and an extra accessory that only worked with a single product that most people won't use, the iPad regardless of the pro moniker is still an iPad mostly used the very same way you use it as you mentioned, I think Apple made the correct decision by referring to the pencil,as an "accessory" as that's what it truly is an addition for those with that particular need, the device already contains hardware that most won't even use in the form of high density touch layer making the product unessesarily costly. This I think is the mistake sumsung is still making with the s pen, stylist aren't very good UI devices for most use cases.
I do fully agree with you on the point of Apple not allowing it's product development to be determined by anyone but apple, imagine where the iPhone would be if the A series chips were developed externally, you would think apple would have handled this by now, oh well the huge revenue of the iPhone compered to the Mac make this a non issue at Apple, kinda sucks though, for most hardcore fans Mac is the reason
To my way of thinking, the thing that most noticeably puts the "Pro" in iPad Pro is the pencil. It takes the fundamental UI of the iPad -- touch -- and professionalizes it by using a more precision touch tool. It seems to me that if someone doesn't want/need the pencil, then they don't need/want an iPad Pro. (it's true that the iPad Pro has a beefier SOC and a bigger screen, which might also be appealing to people interested in games etc, but Apple should serve those people with a beefier consumer-oriented iPad)
The tradeoff of not making the pencil a standard feature of the iPad Pro is that it greatly reduces the number of people who have the pencil, which greatly reduces the incentive to developers to support the pencil in their apps, which reduces the incentive for consumers to buy the pencil.
I need to get a laptop for my son (high school). I'm having a hard time choosing between macbook air and the surface pro 4. Of course we want it to last through high school and beyond. I know this is pro Apple comments but some good advice would be appreciated.
The Apple laptop lineup is in a major need of refresh. It's a terrible time to buy a new Apple laptop. And nobody outside of Apple really knows when the refresh will come. This creates a tough dilemma for somebody in your situation.
I think the strongest case to be made for buying the Mac is that you're not just buying a Mac, you're participating in the larger Apple ecosystem. If your son has an iPhone or other apple devices, then I think it makes sense to get the Mac. The integration among Apple devices (messages, photos, airplay, etc) makes it appealing to have all devices be Apple devices. The whole of the Apple ecosystem is, at least to me, greater than the sum of its parts.
But if your son doesn't have an iPhone or any other Apple devices (and doesn't want to get any), then you might as well get the Surface.
a terrible time to buy a Mac? dear god. don't you realize that you're part of a very very small minority of tech nerds wringing their hands over chipsets? normal people don't give a fuck. if they need or want a Mac, they go buy one. they don't know Intel chipset roadmaps.
a kid in high school is going to be fine with any MacBook. he's not doing intense 3D renders all day or driving a bunch of 4K displays to edit on. I'm a developer and my desktop is a 2011 iMac and my notebook is a 2014 MBP, and I make my living on them.
lastly, even without the ecosystem I still wouldn't push anyone to Windows because it generally sucks. decades of playing tech support for friends & family have driven this home. OS X is just less hassle.
1. So you're not really refuting that it's a terrible time to buy a Mac (because you can't --- it really is), you're just arguing that Apple doesn't need to care because most people are ignorant of how stagnant their lineup is? If Apple adopts that attitude it will lead to the devaluation of their brand. Apple has built a brand that people trust by consistently delivering great products. By letting the Mac lineup stagnate and opening themselves to this type of marketing attack from Microsoft, Apple is hurting their brand. They might be able to get away with it for a while, but there's a long term price to be paid.
2. We have no idea what this kid will be doing with his computer. At this point, he might not know either.
3. Without the ecosystem.... it's getting to be a closer call all the time. When Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel, they eliminated hardware performance as a variable in buying a computer. But by allowing the Mac to languish, they've reintroduced it -- and in a way that puts the Mac at a disadvantage. Once again, MacOS has to not be just better than Windows -- it need to be enough better to compensate for weak hardware. How awful that we've returned to this.
If Apple doesn't come up with a Mac Pro that meets my needs within the next year I suspect I'll replace my Mac Pro with a combination of an iMac and a headless Linux box that will be devoted entirely to running R. I'd much rather spend that money on a Mac, but that just might not be possible.
I'm not a big fan of the current Mac Pro either. They make a small can with hidden ports to cut down on desk clutter and cables, but pro users are then going to have tons of peripherals anyway, like break out boxes, hard drives, and probably even DVD, since none of that can go inside anymore, and the ports are difficult to access unless you turn it around which defeats the whole purpose of the design. I like the front facing FW, USB, audio ports on the old model. The new one has small internal storage too and you can't really put it under the desk like old version, plus the fan at the very bottom could easily get obstructed with papers or cables which could affect cooling. The color doesn't match anything else that Apple makes, and I agree, they should have a new 4K/5K standalone monitor to go with it. The single CPU is actually a little slow because the more cores you add the slower the clock speed. The 4 core is actually faster than the 6 core for routine low intensity work like copying files or opening windows because it is clocked faster and routine work doesn't take advantage of multiple cores anyway. Having two 4 cores clocked higher would be better in my opinion. Every pro I have talked to would rather have the same old tower with updated internals.
Yup.
I could live with the current form factor if they:
1. had an option for 2 CPUs plus 1 GPU and 2. kept the darn thing reasonably up to date in terms of components (Ivy Bridge?!?!?!)
But ultimately, going back to the big aluminum tower would probably be better.
I need to get a laptop for my son (high school). I'm having a hard time choosing between macbook air and the surface pro 4. Of course we want it to last through high school and beyond. I know this is pro Apple comments but some good advice would be appreciated.
As someone already posted, if your son is an avid iPhone user, there are many benefits of staying within the Apple ecosystem: Mail, Contacts, Calendar, Safari bookmarks, etc. can all sync through iCloud. Photos can be synced via iCloud between them both as well, provided you have enough iCloud storage space for all of those photos (but it's only 99 cents per month to have 50GB of iCloud storage, and that should be plenty. FaceTime, Handoff, and making phone calls over WiFi through one's cellular carrier are also cool.
If you want the laptop to last though college, then if he's already eyeing certain colleges you should check with them to see what platform they prefer. Liberal arts colleges tend to prefer Macs, engineering ones tend to prefer Windows (there are always exceptions, of course). Macs *can* run Windows, either by exiting OS X and booting into Windows, or by running Windows in a virtual machine running while logged into OS X (it's how I run Windows 10 to run a very old personal finance program I like).
Macs are perceived as being more user-friendly and less prone to security vulnerabilities than Windows, and I find that perception to be reality for me. You'll always have a monthly update of Windows to keep it secure, and have to run antivirus on it. Apple updates OS X as needed (but less often than monthly, for sure), and as long as one is careful, antivirus isn't a "must have" on Macs.
As for the Surface Pro 4, as others have said its not really all that great as a tablet. There aren't many touch-friendly apps besides Microsoft Office, so a keyboard and mouse / trackpad are generally needed for all the other apps that are more likely to have the traditional menu bars and small icons (i.e., not optimized for touch).
Comments
My spouse got the same deal, a refurb MBP 13"... still going strong. And my Mac mini (same vintage) continues to chug along reliably.
None of these have suffered a hardware failure of any kind.
My son, on the other hand, declined a Mac because he saw himself as an elite gamer, and took the gifted funds to build his own PC from select components. Since that time, he has upgraded some of them at least once (power supply, bleeding-edge graphics card, memory, etc.).
In my experience (as someone who spent my fair share of dollars and time creating PCs), gamer-types would be frustrated with a Mac.
The tradeoff of not making the pencil a standard feature of the iPad Pro is that it greatly reduces the number of people who have the pencil, which greatly reduces the incentive to developers to support the pencil in their apps, which reduces the incentive for consumers to buy the pencil.
1. So you're not really refuting that it's a terrible time to buy a Mac (because you can't --- it really is), you're just arguing that Apple doesn't need to care because most people are ignorant of how stagnant their lineup is? If Apple adopts that attitude it will lead to the devaluation of their brand. Apple has built a brand that people trust by consistently delivering great products. By letting the Mac lineup stagnate and opening themselves to this type of marketing attack from Microsoft, Apple is hurting their brand. They might be able to get away with it for a while, but there's a long term price to be paid.
2. We have no idea what this kid will be doing with his computer. At this point, he might not know either.
3. Without the ecosystem.... it's getting to be a closer call all the time. When Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel, they eliminated hardware performance as a variable in buying a computer. But by allowing the Mac to languish, they've reintroduced it -- and in a way that puts the Mac at a disadvantage. Once again, MacOS has to not be just better than Windows -- it need to be enough better to compensate for weak hardware. How awful that we've returned to this.
I could live with the current form factor if they:
1. had an option for 2 CPUs plus 1 GPU
and
2. kept the darn thing reasonably up to date in terms of components (Ivy Bridge?!?!?!)
But ultimately, going back to the big aluminum tower would probably be better.
http://www.androidgamespro.com/running-android-apps-microsofts-surface-pro-4/
If you want the laptop to last though college, then if he's already eyeing certain colleges you should check with them to see what platform they prefer. Liberal arts colleges tend to prefer Macs, engineering ones tend to prefer Windows (there are always exceptions, of course). Macs *can* run Windows, either by exiting OS X and booting into Windows, or by running Windows in a virtual machine running while logged into OS X (it's how I run Windows 10 to run a very old personal finance program I like).
Macs are perceived as being more user-friendly and less prone to security vulnerabilities than Windows, and I find that perception to be reality for me. You'll always have a monthly update of Windows to keep it secure, and have to run antivirus on it. Apple updates OS X as needed (but less often than monthly, for sure), and as long as one is careful, antivirus isn't a "must have" on Macs.
As for the Surface Pro 4, as others have said its not really all that great as a tablet. There aren't many touch-friendly apps besides Microsoft Office, so a keyboard and mouse / trackpad are generally needed for all the other apps that are more likely to have the traditional menu bars and small icons (i.e., not optimized for touch).
I hope this helps.