Because usually the party that did not pay the taxes is the one that has the issues. Also, as far as I know Apple is (not yet) being penalized. The amount mentioned is the amount they should have payed more. So there is no financial penalty (as of yet)
I am curious: do you pay any taxes that you are not asked to? Or does that only apply other people?
Exactly. The narrative of Apple is evil because it didn't overpay Ireland what its as asking for is dumb.. Who does that? Apple had Ireland repeatedly, every year, audit their taxes.. Generally, the only people you need to worry about when it comes to taxes is the country your money is in.
Now, if the tax law has been found insufficient, or defective, CHANGE THE DAMN LAW. Can you guess what Apple and other companies will do? They'll follow the new freaking law; whatever it is. This back-taxing because they 'suddenly see the light of the wrong doing' is a piss-poor move on EU's part.
You know why that have not changed the laws? 1) They couldn't legally change irelands Tax laws and 2) Because they wanted a back-door to do so.
You see, what NO-One has heard, is the actually 'special deal'.. What no one has heard, is what criteria makes it illegal. Thats because it was purely 'SUBJECTIVE' opinion from the commission.
The EU is out of control and burning through cash it doesn't have. With few exceptions none of the multilayered intelligencia who determine things like " we must destroy thousands of acres of olive trees to make room to plant corn" are using a very narrow view of time and place. The last thing we need is more corn. One of the best foods we need more of is olive oil. If they realized that better marketing would solve their problem without destroying national treasures we could get more and cheaper olive oil and avoid corn meal, chips, tacos, etc.
Welcome to the world of Bizarro. The EU tells Apple to pay money to Ireland, that Ireland did not ask for or want.
Right and it's not hard to see why more than a few will want to accept! It's enough to wipe out Ireland's debt and put the country in surplus I read somewhere else. Maybe after Brexit is over with UK can become the new Ireland for basing US companies.
Because usually the party that did not pay the taxes is the one that has the issues. Also, as far as I know Apple is (not yet) being penalized. The amount mentioned is the amount they should have payed more. So there is no financial penalty (as of yet)
I am curious: do you pay any taxes that you are not asked to? Or does that only apply other people?
Exactly. The narrative of Apple is evil because it didn't overpay Ireland what its as asking for is dumb.. Who does that? Apple had Ireland repeatedly, every year, audit their taxes.. Generally, the only people you need to worry about when it comes to taxes is the country your money is in.
Now, if the tax law has been found insufficient, or defective, CHANGE THE DAMN LAW. Can you guess what Apple and other companies will do? They'll follow the new freaking law; whatever it is. This back-taxing because they 'suddenly see the light of the wrong doing' is a piss-poor move on EU's part.
You know why that have not changed the laws? 1) They couldn't legally change irelands Tax laws and 2) Because they wanted a back-door to do so.
You see, what NO-One has heard, is the actually 'special deal'.. What no one has heard, is what criteria makes it illegal. Thats because it was purely 'SUBJECTIVE' opinion from the commission.
Maybe after Brexit is over with UK can become the new Ireland for basing US companies.
Why do people keep saying this? After Brexit is over then basing your international operations in the UK will achieve jack squat. If you want improved access to the common market (>400 million people, even without the UK) then you want to be based in an EU country. Basing in the UK will get access to 60 million people, small potatoes, at a 20% corporation tax; significantly higher than Ireland's 12.5% base rate. And slowly but surely the UK is starting* to lead the way in clamping down on tax avoidance, so I have no idea what you're hoping to achieve.
* major caveats here, but nevertheless lots of progress being made.
The EU is contending that Apple and Ireland colluded to form an illegal partnership, against EU tax law. So why is Ireland not being penalized as well? Why just Apple?
Because usually the party that did not pay the taxes is the one that has the issues. Also, as far as I know Apple is (not yet) being penalized. The amount mentioned is the amount they should have payed more. So there is no financial penalty (as of yet)
I am curious: do you pay any taxes that you are not asked to? Or does that only apply other people?
We all know (or should) that bad advice from our accountant doesn't absolve us from a tax obligation. Did you also know that if the IRS offers you bad advice it doesn't mean you won't have to pay, even penalized with interest, for tax obligations they later say you do owe despite what they told you? Dixon v. United States Schuster v. Commissioner David Michael Maser v Commissioner
I'd be shocked if Apple's tax folks weren't always aware that there was at least a remote possibility they received bad advice.
In any event I think there's a distinct chance that Ireland may not appeal despite their Finance Ministers statements. IMHO it may depend on citizen reactions.
If 'bad tax advice' is the case, Apple is far from alone. Dozens of major US firms, including Google, are in the same boat. This is simply the first salvo.
But I predict it ain't happening, at least not anywhere close to this number. Your prediction is no better than mine. However, we'll just have to wait and see.
Face it Europe, you have a failed state and no way to bail them out so you're coming after American countries to have them bail you out... again. If money weren't a problem you wouldn't care. This is a money grab, plain and simple.
Failed state? Ireland is one of the most resilient and successful small countries in the World. We don't want the money because we don't feel we did anything illegal. Apple's tiny tax bill is a result of loopholes in the GLOBAL tax system. The rules have been changed since 2014 and now all parties are compliant.
The EU are punishing Ireland because they can't touch our LEGAL low corporate tax rate. Believe or not, we'd rather have the long term investment from multinationals than this once off windfall (which by the time every EU country has named their price will be well other EUR 1bn to Ireland.
The EU is contending that Apple and Ireland colluded to form an illegal partnership, against EU tax law. So why is Ireland not being penalized as well? Why just Apple?
Because usually the party that did not pay the taxes is the one that has the issues. Also, as far as I know Apple is (not yet) being penalized. The amount mentioned is the amount they should have payed more. So there is no financial penalty (as of yet)
I am curious: do you pay any taxes that you are not asked to? Or does that only apply other people?
We all know (or should) that bad advice from our accountant doesn't absolve us from a tax obligation. Did you also know that if the IRS offers you bad advice it doesn't mean you won't have to pay, even penalized with interest, for tax obligations they later say you do owe despite what they told you? Dixon v. United States Schuster v. Commissioner David Michael Maser v Commissioner
I'd be shocked if Apple's tax folks weren't always aware that there was at least a remote possibility they received bad advice.
In any event I think there's a distinct chance that Ireland may not appeal despite their Finance Ministers statements. IMHO it may depend on citizen reactions.
If 'bad tax advice' is the case, Apple is far from alone. Dozens of major US firms, including Google, are in the same boat. This is simply the first salvo.
But I predict it ain't happening, at least not anywhere close to this number. Your prediction is no better than mine. However, we'll just have to wait and see.
Google already coughed up a few $million (shoulda been more by most accounts) to the Brits to settle transfer-pricing claims and proper taxes from them. Apple sent Italy a check for roughly $350 million to settle a tax lawsuit for the same type of transfer-pricing tax avoidance. Remember that article here at AI?
So yeah it started a while back, this was just "the big one". More to come.
Face it Europe, you have a failed state and no way to bail them out so you're coming after American countries to have them bail you out... again. If money weren't a problem you wouldn't care. This is a money grab, plain and simple.
Failed state? Ireland is one of the most resilient and successful small countries in the World. We don't want the money because we don't feel we did anything illegal. Apple's tiny tax bill is a result of loopholes in the GLOBAL tax system. The rules have been changed since 2014 and now all parties are compliant.
The EU are punishing Ireland because they can't touch our LEGAL low corporate tax rate. Believe or not, we'd rather have the long term investment from multinationals than this once off windfall (which by the time every EU country has named their price will be well other EUR 1bn to Ireland.
I think he's saying Europe is a failed state. Which is doubly incorrect.
Apple is probably the number one payer of taxes on the planet, certainly in the US and according to Tim Cook in Ireland. This is the EC/EU using Apple as a test case. If they succeed in getting a sizable payout from Apple, they will work down the line to every American company doing business in the EU.
After all, those budget shortfalls in Greece, Italy, Spain, etc have to be covered by someone.
The thing you guys don't realise is that all the US corporations set up in Ireland because it's a way for them to avoid paying their due taxes in other European countries. It's not just Apple, it's Google, Facebook, Starbucks etc.
It's absolutely disgraceful the amount of tax they get away with. You should do some research into it before saying it's a money grab from other EU states.
Stackbucks for example paid just £8.6m over 14 years to the UK with £3billion in sales during that period.
They're able to do this because of dodgy tax systems that Ireland has set up.
It's not right and none of us should be supporting Apple or any other company that does this. Americans might be allergic to tax, hence the reason your public services are non-existent, but even you should be able to recognise this is messed up.
Tax rate in 2014 down to .005 percent because they must have just felt like they were getting bilked at that massive 1% tax rate in 2003.
This isn't just an Apple thing, the double Irish Dutch sandwich loophole has to go at some point. Closing it is one thing, good luck trying to get back taxes
Maybe after Brexit is over with UK can become the new Ireland for basing US companies.
Why do people keep saying this? After Brexit is over then basing your international operations in the UK will achieve jack squat. If you want improved access to the common market (>400 million people, even without the UK) then you want to be based in an EU country. Basing in the UK will get access to 60 million people, small potatoes, at a 20% corporation tax; significantly higher than Ireland's 12.5% base rate. And slowly but surely the UK is starting* to lead the way in clamping down on tax avoidance, so I have no idea what you're hoping to achieve.
* major caveats here, but nevertheless lots of progress being made.
The "your" is a little misplaced as I am a Brit. However, I have dual citizenship and choose to reside in Florida. I am hoping your caveat holds and choose to be optimistic for the UK. Accepting all the bad reasons the Brexit vote passed, perhaps the UK may in a few years look back be glad to be free of Brussels' bureaucratic quagmires and forge even stronger trading partnerships with access to even larger markets.
The EU is contending that Apple and Ireland colluded to form an illegal partnership, against EU tax law. So why is Ireland not being penalized as well? Why just Apple?
Because usually the party that did not pay the taxes is the one that has the issues. Also, as far as I know Apple is (not yet) being penalized. The amount mentioned is the amount they should have payed more. So there is no financial penalty (as of yet)
I am curious: do you pay any taxes that you are not asked to? Or does that only apply other people?
We all know (or should) that bad advice from our accountant doesn't absolve us from a tax obligation. Did you also know that if the IRS offers you bad advice it doesn't mean you won't have to pay, even penalized with interest, for tax obligations they later say you do owe despite what they told you? Dixon v. United States Schuster v. Commissioner David Michael Maser v Commissioner
I'd be shocked if Apple's tax folks weren't always aware that there was at least a remote possibility they received bad advice.
In any event I think there's a distinct chance that Ireland may not appeal despite their Finance Ministers statements. IMHO it may depend on citizen reactions.
Do you believe that a change in laws such as this should be retroactive?
Welcome to the world of Bizarro. The EU tells Apple to pay money to Ireland, that Ireland did not ask for or want.
They (Irish tax authorities) may not have asked for it, so far, but it wouldn't surprise me if we find out that they (the aggregate of Irish people) do indeed want it.
I'd say that's a given. People are by nature greedy.
The EU is contending that Apple and Ireland colluded to form an illegal partnership, against EU tax law. So why is Ireland not being penalized as well? Why just Apple?
Because usually the party that did not pay the taxes is the one that has the issues. Also, as far as I know Apple is (not yet) being penalized. The amount mentioned is the amount they should have payed more. So there is no financial penalty (as of yet)
I am curious: do you pay any taxes that you are not asked to? Or does that only apply other people?
We all know (or should) that bad advice from our accountant doesn't absolve us from a tax obligation. Did you also know that if the IRS offers you bad advice it doesn't mean you won't have to pay, even penalized with interest, for tax obligations they later say you do owe despite what they told you? Dixon v. United States Schuster v. Commissioner David Michael Maser v Commissioner
I'd be shocked if Apple's tax folks weren't always aware that there was at least a remote possibility they received bad advice.
In any event I think there's a distinct chance that Ireland may not appeal despite their Finance Ministers statements. IMHO it may depend on citizen reactions.
Do you believe that a change in laws such as this should be retroactive?
It wasn't a change in laws. It was "breaking the rules" that apply to all the EU member countries.
Many here are commenting based on the erroneous assumption Apple is accused of breaking some tax law. They aren't. In a nutshell they got bad advice from the Irish tax officials and while Apple thought "living on the edge" taxwise was going to be OK the EU Commission is saying no. That's why Ireland was tasked with recovering what should have been paid all along (or at least in the 10 years preceding 2013), which is still a relative bargain compared to repatriating those profits, right?
AFAIK the EU did not tell Ireland to change any of their tax laws nor say that Apple broke any of them.
This is pure political bullshit. Face it Europe, you have a failed state and no way to bail them out so you're coming after American countries to have them bail you out... again. If money weren't a problem you wouldn't care. This is a money grab, plain and simple.
Could not agree more.
Now I understand the Brexit people.
The top level in EU is a clusterfuck. I have no idea why all the EU people are so wonderful but the EU government Is so bad.
Those extreme left wings.... Too much right can be wrong.
The EU is contending that Apple and Ireland colluded to form an illegal partnership, against EU tax law. So why is Ireland not being penalized as well? Why just Apple?
Because usually the party that did not pay the taxes is the one that has the issues. Also, as far as I know Apple is (not yet) being penalized. The amount mentioned is the amount they should have payed more. So there is no financial penalty (as of yet)
I am curious: do you pay any taxes that you are not asked to? Or does that only apply other people?
We all know (or should) that bad advice from our accountant doesn't absolve us from a tax obligation. Did you also know that if the IRS offers you bad advice it doesn't mean you won't have to pay, even penalized with interest, for tax obligations they later say you do owe despite what they told you? Dixon v. United States Schuster v. Commissioner David Michael Maser v Commissioner
I'd be shocked if Apple's tax folks weren't always aware that there was at least a remote possibility they received bad advice.
In any event I think there's a distinct chance that Ireland may not appeal despite their Finance Ministers statements. IMHO it may depend on citizen reactions.
I know apple is not exactly doing the right thing about tax in EU. But it follows the Ireland perfectly and Ireland is happy about it.
So either EU should kick out Ireland or force EU's law apply to all EU countries? But will they? Cause It is will be the end of EU, not everyone likes straight banana.
Comments
Now, if the tax law has been found insufficient, or defective, CHANGE THE DAMN LAW. Can you guess what Apple and other companies will do? They'll follow the new freaking law; whatever it is. This back-taxing because they 'suddenly see the light of the wrong doing' is a piss-poor move on EU's part.
You know why that have not changed the laws? 1) They couldn't legally change irelands Tax laws and 2) Because they wanted a back-door to do so.
You see, what NO-One has heard, is the actually 'special deal'.. What no one has heard, is what criteria makes it illegal. Thats because it was purely 'SUBJECTIVE' opinion from the commission.
http://ec.europa.eu/competition/state_aid/cases/253200/253200_1582634_87_2.pdf
There you go
* major caveats here, but nevertheless lots of progress being made.
But I predict it ain't happening, at least not anywhere close to this number. Your prediction is no better than mine. However, we'll just have to wait and see.
So yeah it started a while back, this was just "the big one". More to come.
After all, those budget shortfalls in Greece, Italy, Spain, etc have to be covered by someone.
Tax rate in 2014 down to .005 percent because they must have just felt like they were getting bilked at that massive 1% tax rate in 2003.
This isn't just an Apple thing, the double Irish Dutch sandwich loophole has to go at some point. Closing it is one thing, good luck trying to get back taxes
Many here are commenting based on the erroneous assumption Apple is accused of breaking some tax law. They aren't. In a nutshell they got bad advice from the Irish tax officials and while Apple thought "living on the edge" taxwise was going to be OK the EU Commission is saying no. That's why Ireland was tasked with recovering what should have been paid all along (or at least in the 10 years preceding 2013), which is still a relative bargain compared to repatriating those profits, right?
AFAIK the EU did not tell Ireland to change any of their tax laws nor say that Apple broke any of them.