EU-imposed Apple Irish tax bill could exceed $21.2B if appeal process fails

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 63
    I want the US to allow this money to come up for 10%. That would cover most of this tax bill leaving only 2.5% tax going to Ireland. Ireland would get more money and US companies could bring their off-shore dollars home at a reasonable rate. Why let the EU still it? We need reasonable tax on bringing these foreign profits home. Apple has said it accrued the US taxes for this money. If they bring it home, they will have to pay it. This is all screwed up because these companies are being forced to leave the money over seas due to outrageous repatriation taxes. Let's fix the real problem here and it will take care of the EU side all by itself.
  • Reply 22 of 63
    spacekidspacekid Posts: 172member
    The thing you guys don't realise is that all the US corporations set up in Ireland because it's a way for them to avoid paying their due taxes in other European countries. It's not just Apple, it's Google, Facebook, Starbucks etc. It's absolutely disgraceful the amount of tax they get away with. You should do some research into it before saying it's a money grab from other EU states. Stackbucks for example paid just £8.6m over 14 years to the UK with £3billion in sales during that period. They're able to do this because of dodgy tax systems that Ireland has set up. It's not right and none of us should be supporting Apple or any other company that does this. Americans might be allergic to tax, hence the reason your public services are non-existent, but even you should be able to recognise this is messed up.
    A more sensible response would have been to require Ireland (and all EU countries) to collect some minimum tax from this point forward. I'm not aware that Ireland's tax rate was a secret. Making retroactive changes for legal laws the EU doesn't like doesn't seem like the best thing to do.
    latifbp
  • Reply 23 of 63
    crowleycrowley Posts: 6,019member

    crowley said:
    The apologist whiners and the alt-right crazies need some counterbalance.
    alt-right, ctrl-left.... they're both the same to me. Nut cases.
     :D 

    I like that,  very nicely put.
    anantksundaram
  • Reply 24 of 63
    adrayvenadrayven Posts: 460member
    gatorguy said:
    512ke said:
    Apple may remain in Ireland but Apple's money won't remain in Europe.
    For the most part it's not in Europe now. Look no further than New York.
    Wrong.. If it were, a 35%, not 12.5% tax would be levied for repatriation. Think, then speak.
  • Reply 25 of 63
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,117member
    I want the US to allow this money to come up for 10%. That would cover most of this tax bill leaving only 2.5% tax going to Ireland. Ireland would get more money and US companies could bring their off-shore dollars home at a reasonable rate. Why let the EU still it? We need reasonable tax on bringing these foreign profits home. Apple has said it accrued the US taxes for this money. If they bring it home, they will have to pay it. This is all screwed up because these companies are being forced to leave the money over seas due to outrageous repatriation taxes. Let's fix the real problem here and it will take care of the EU side all by itself.
    If there are cheaper places to stash the cash why would they "bring it home" even at 10%? For the moment there are still places with corporate tax rates cheaper than Ireland's standard 12.5%, tho that's really pretty low to begin with. 

    So I don't see Apple repatriating $200B anyway. IIRC Apple hasn't set aside deferred taxes for nearly that much, with over $100B of that considered permanently "invested" overseas with no allowance for US taxes so they would agree.  A company only sets aside deferred taxes for money they expect to at some point (some day) be taxable. 
    edited August 2016
  • Reply 26 of 63
    crowleycrowley Posts: 6,019member
    adrayven said:
    gatorguy said:
    For the most part it's not in Europe now. Look no further than New York.
    Wrong.. If it were, a 35%, not 12.5% tax would be levied for repatriation. Think, then speak.
    The money is overseas on the books, but in reality it'll be held in banks all over, and probably a large amount of it will be New York.  You have to pay repatriation tax to transfer the money to the home corporation, but not to move the actual money around.

    Not wrong at all.
    anantksundaramcnocbui[Deleted User]
  • Reply 27 of 63
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,117member
    adrayven said:
    gatorguy said:
    512ke said:
    Apple may remain in Ireland but Apple's money won't remain in Europe.
    For the most part it's not in Europe now. Look no further than New York.
    Wrong.. If it were, a 35%, not 12.5% tax would be levied for repatriation. Think, then speak.
    It IS in New York banks.  The accounts are just listed as owned by their foreign subsidiaries rather than Apple US.  Read more, then post instead of insulting other members who actually do know better. 
    singularityanantksundaramcnocbui
  • Reply 28 of 63
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,076member
    I want the US to allow this money to come up for 10%. That would cover most of this tax bill leaving only 2.5% tax going to Ireland. Ireland would get more money and US companies could bring their off-shore dollars home at a reasonable rate. Why let the EU still it? We need reasonable tax on bringing these foreign profits home. Apple has said it accrued the US taxes for this money. If they bring it home, they will have to pay it. This is all screwed up because these companies are being forced to leave the money over seas due to outrageous repatriation taxes. Let's fix the real problem here and it will take care of the EU side all by itself.
    It goes backwards, taxes paid off shores are deducted, not the contrary
    xixo
  • Reply 29 of 63
    crowleycrowley Posts: 6,019member
    I want the US to allow this money to come up for 10%. That would cover most of this tax bill leaving only 2.5% tax going to Ireland. Ireland would get more money and US companies could bring their off-shore dollars home at a reasonable rate. Why let the EU still it? We need reasonable tax on bringing these foreign profits home. Apple has said it accrued the US taxes for this money. If they bring it home, they will have to pay it. This is all screwed up because these companies are being forced to leave the money over seas due to outrageous repatriation taxes. Let's fix the real problem here and it will take care of the EU side all by itself.
    It doesn't work that way.  The Irish tax authority doesn't give a fig about what money has been transferred back to the USA, the tax bill is still the tax bill (subject to appeal and whatnot, obv).
    singularitygilescnocbui
  • Reply 30 of 63
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,117member
    crowley said:
    adrayven said:
    gatorguy said:
    For the most part it's not in Europe now. Look no further than New York.
    Wrong.. If it were, a 35%, not 12.5% tax would be levied for repatriation. Think, then speak.
    The money is overseas on the books, but in reality it'll be held in banks all over, and probably a large amount of it will be New York.  You have to pay repatriation tax to transfer the money to the home corporation, but not to move the actual money around.

    Not wrong at all.
    I wasn't going to bother for that particular poster, but for those interested in knowing facts...
    https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/tax-reform/report/2014/01/09/81681/offshore-corporate-profits-the-only-thing-trapped-is-tax-revenue/

    It's so much better when someone politely asks for more information, or courteously disagrees. They look just plain silly ridiculing other members when it turns out they themselves were wrong. 
    xixo[Deleted User]h2p
  • Reply 31 of 63
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member
    gwydion said:
    volcan said:
    I don't know how far back these taxes are being assessed but even the IRS only audits up to 6 previous years.
    The EU will go back as far as they want to in order to stave off collapse. Soon, companies will be paying taxes on the earnings of companies they purchased decades ago. 
    The EC will go back 10 years from the start of the investigation, like always has been, it is right there, in the documents.
    How are the Capri pants feeling today?
  • Reply 32 of 63
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,278member
    This is BS for any company. If the EU wants to change close the loophole that companies are exploiting then they have the right to do so, but to retroactively charge them for taxes they weren't legally required to pay only after finally getting their collective bureaucratic heads out of their asses, is ridiculous. They're going after the world's most valuable company first because they think they can guilt them into paying by painting Apple as being a shyster, which is easy to fool the plebs that assume that if you have accumulated wealth it means you must have committed heinous crimes, while also claiming it will help the people when the money will only go to make the rich richer.
    latifbp
  • Reply 33 of 63
    ppietrappietra Posts: 171member
    The thing you guys don't realise is that all the US corporations set up in Ireland because it's a way for them to avoid paying their due taxes in other European countries. It's not just Apple, it's Google, Facebook, Starbucks etc. It's absolutely disgraceful the amount of tax they get away with. You should do some research into it before saying it's a money grab from other EU states. Stackbucks for example paid just £8.6m over 14 years to the UK with £3billion in sales during that period. They're able to do this because of dodgy tax systems that Ireland has set up. It's not right and none of us should be supporting Apple or any other company that does this. Americans might be allergic to tax, hence the reason your public services are non-existent, but even you should be able to recognise this is messed up.
    Not true! If they had chosen another european country they could also avoid paying corporate taxes in other EU countries, because that is something EU laws allow.
    They choose Ireland because it has one of the lowest corporate tax in Europe and some other benefits from irish tax law for multinationals.

  • Reply 34 of 63
    latifbplatifbp Posts: 544member
    A chance for a free $14.5 billion yet Irish authorities are meeting about how to fight this. Seems like the best kind of punishment anybody or country could ask for. Yet, they want to fight it.
  • Reply 35 of 63
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,076member
    Soli said:
    This is BS for any company. If the EU wants to change close the loophole that companies are exploiting then they have the right to do so, but to retroactively charge them for taxes they weren't legally required to pay only after finally getting their collective bureaucratic heads out of their asses, is ridiculous. They're going after the world's most valuable company first because they think they can guilt them into paying by painting Apple as being a shyster, which is easy to fool the plebs that assume that if you have accumulated wealth it means you must have committed heinous crimes, while also claiming it will help the people when the money will only go to make the rich richer.
    No, they were legally required to pay the, And Apple is not the first one, 35 EU companies has been compelled to pay back taxes for the same thing in Belgium last month.

    It is not EU vs US or EU vs Apple, is EU vs illegal state aids from countries in the EU to a lot of companies
    edited August 2016 xixogilescroprcnocbui[Deleted User]
  • Reply 36 of 63
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,278member
    gwydion said:
    Soli said:
    This is BS for any company. If the EU wants to change close the loophole that companies are exploiting then they have the right to do so, but to retroactively charge them for taxes they weren't legally required to pay only after finally getting their collective bureaucratic heads out of their asses, is ridiculous. They're going after the world's most valuable company first because they think they can guilt them into paying by painting Apple as being a shyster, which is easy to fool the plebs that assume that if you have accumulated wealth it means you must have committed heinous crimes, while also claiming it will help the people when the money will only go to make the rich richer.
    No, they were legally required to pay the, And Apple is not the first one, 35 EU companies has been compelled to pay back taxes for the same thing in Belgium last month.

    It is not EU vs US or EU vs Apple, is EU vs illegal state aids from countries in the EU to a lot of companies
    If it was illegal a decade ago then why is only being enforced now? Why wasn't it illegal when Apple set this up with Ireland in the 1980s?
  • Reply 37 of 63
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,791member
    gwydion said:

    It is not EU vs US or EU vs Apple, is EU vs illegal state aids from countries in the EU to a lot of companies
    Then shouldn't Ireland be on the hook instead of Apple? They were the ones providing the supposedly illegal state aid.
  • Reply 38 of 63
    crowleycrowley Posts: 6,019member
    Soli said:
    gwydion said:
    No, they were legally required to pay the, And Apple is not the first one, 35 EU companies has been compelled to pay back taxes for the same thing in Belgium last month.

    It is not EU vs US or EU vs Apple, is EU vs illegal state aids from countries in the EU to a lot of companies
    If it was illegal a decade ago then why is only being enforced now? Why wasn't it illegal when Apple set this up with Ireland in the 1980s?
    Because it only became widely known when attention was drawn to arrangements with the Lux Leaks in 2014.

    Despite being painted as authoritarian busybodies by many around here, the EU does not vigorously audit the tax affairs of member nations, it mostly only investigates when a complaint is made or it becomes aware of potential infringement.
    xixogiles
  • Reply 39 of 63
    The thing you guys don't realise is that all the US corporations set up in Ireland because it's a way for them to avoid paying their due taxes in other European countries. It's not just Apple, it's Google, Facebook, Starbucks etc. It's absolutely disgraceful the amount of tax they get away with. You should do some research into it before saying it's a money grab from other EU states. Stackbucks for example paid just £8.6m over 14 years to the UK with £3billion in sales during that period. They're able to do this because of dodgy tax systems that Ireland has set up. It's not right and none of us should be supporting Apple or any other company that does this. Americans might be allergic to tax, hence the reason your public services are non-existent, but even you should be able to recognise this is messed up.

    We do think everyone should pay their taxes as specified in each country, which Apple has.   If the Irish tax code, doesn't meet EU requirements, this is an Irish tax problem.  The EU should insist they update them for compliance.  Changes to tax codes are not retro active.


    Soli[Deleted User]
  • Reply 40 of 63
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,278member
    crowley said:
    Soli said:
    If it was illegal a decade ago then why is only being enforced now? Why wasn't it illegal when Apple set this up with Ireland in the 1980s?
    Because it only became widely known when attention was drawn to arrangements with the Lux Leaks in 2014.

    Despite being painted as authoritarian busybodies by many around here, the EU does not vigorously audit the tax affairs of member nations, it mostly only investigates when a complaint is made or it becomes aware of potential infringement.
    1)So you're saying the EU doesn't do its job and yet can back-charge companies for abiding by the laws and agreements it set up before the EU was even formed?

    2) Note, the double Irish arrangement didn't come to light in 2014 because of Lux Leaks. This is a well known tax loophole for corporations. If you clam that the EU only got wind of this in 2014 then the EU is much, much worse than I assumed.
    edited August 2016 anantksundaram
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