Too soon? Apple's new iPhone 7 ruffles feathers with Lightning audio, Home button changes

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  • Reply 41 of 125
    mrr said:
    Apple Pencil on iPhone? Absolutely! You say it wouldn't work on a small screen? I used a pen for years on a Newton and Palm Pilot. Great for text input and bet the shit out of a finger for drawing. The technology has already been perfected for the iPad Pro and would be cheaper to implement for a smaller screen there are really no technical constraints for producing and marketing this now. Plus there's the added incentive that Apple gets to sell a $100 pencil add on. There is also no reason that a smaller thinner and could not be created if the current one is too big for your tastes. In any case, I'm going to buy the first one that comes out because it something I can use every single day. I would have jumped to Samsung just for this feature if I wasn't tied into the iOS universe. Please Apple, listen to me and not Appleinsider.
    It may occur, but the phone was packed solid this year (with the camera), so they certainly didn't have space for a digitizer.
    They would probably put it on the large phone (and true tone), next year.
    tmayration al
  • Reply 42 of 125
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,133moderator
    Recall Asimov's Psychohistory concept, a postulated history of the future.  Well, that's what we in product development call a product roadmap; it begins with some vision of a future and then works back from there.  I expect Apple management is well versed in the practice of road mapping in this manner.  

    And one of the questions you ask is, if this legacy component or feature wasn't in our product already, would we be adding it given the current state of the art? Asked in that context, what would you answer?  

    How many here, given the availability of wireless and the additional potential of Lightning delivered audio, would opt to add to a product that didn't already have it, a 50-year-old dumb headphone jack?  

    And having answered that question, how many would then instead opt to add, under the same state-of-the-art scenario, two Lightning ports on a handset?  

    The answer should be obvious; you'd sooner add two Lightning ports than to have one Lightning port and one 50-year-old dumb headphone jack.  And so it's obvious the headphone jack has no place in the future.  

    And that leaves the question of, would you solve the charging while listening issue by adding to every handset a second Lightning port?  Or would you look again to the future, realize that fewer wires is ultimately the way to go, and bridge to that future, for those who want to listen (with wires) while charging, with dongles.  

    It's pretty clear to me why Apple did exactly what Apple did.  Drop the ancient headphone jack, create the Lightning to 3.5mm jack themselves because that gets included with every handset and should therefore be Apple branded, and let the third party makers handle all additional use cases (i.e. the Lightning to dual-Lightning adapter).  And create several (Apple and Beats) products that point to the wireless future.
    edited September 2016 roundaboutnowtmaybrucemcnolamacguyronnration al
  • Reply 43 of 125
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,449member
    paxman said:. 

    As far as removing the jack I could not care less. The iPhone headphones will not be compatible with other devices going forward, but what other devices do people use their headphones for these days? I do occasionally use headphones while watching movies on my Mac or iPad but I have many headsets lying around. Usually I share the screen with my wife so we need two headsets and yet there is only one jack. So I use a splitter. Not a problem. My guess is that people will rapidly turn to wireless headphones. For the ones among us that want the wires there are still about a million options. For people like me who want more than one headset to be connected to the same device there is another interesting question - will Apple facilitate multiple headset link-up over Bluetooth?


    That's right. There is not currently a Lightning audio splitter, and though the forthcoming Belkin adapter appears as though it might solve this problem, the website suggests it won't, and only supports one headphone and one charger. I've been told some BT headphones support daisy-chained pairing, where one headphone pairs to the source and another pairs to the source-paired set. That doesn't seem particularly simple or efficient, but then again it's not that different than some Beats headphones which have two 3.5mm jacks so that friends can jack into each other's audio (save all the complicated pairing). However, it doesn't appear any of Apple's or Beat's products support such wireless daisy-chaining, much less a new W1 chipped one.

    I've been told, as I suspect someone will tell you, that nobody does this and you're an outlier case that Apple doesn't need to be concerned with. Well enjoy dealing with that. I do understand your need, and the need for it in general, to which all I can say is that I would expect someone will address it at some point once MFi developers get their hands on the new specs. 

    Frankly, if I used my phone for audio much more than I personally do, I would put off buying the 7 for about 6 months until I saw how some of these common use cases are going to be addressed in the marketplace.

    for your use case, I'd recommend tossing the Lightning EarPods into a drawer for now, and use your old 3.5mm EarPods with the new Lightning adapter, and continue using your headphones as you always did. 
    baconstang
  • Reply 44 of 125
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,272member
    mrr said:
    Apple Pencil on iPhone? Absolutely! You say it wouldn't work on a small screen? I used a pen for years on a Newton and Palm Pilot. Great for text input and bet the shit out of a finger for drawing. The technology has already been perfected for the iPad Pro and would be cheaper to implement for a smaller screen there are really no technical constraints for producing and marketing this now. Plus there's the added incentive that Apple gets to sell a $100 pencil add on. There is also no reason that a smaller thinner and could not be created if the current one is too big for your tastes. In any case, I'm going to buy the first one that comes out because it something I can use every single day. I would have jumped to Samsung just for this feature if I wasn't tied into the iOS universe. Please Apple, listen to me and not Appleinsider.
    I don't see this has a huge feature, but I can see how it can be a useful one. Once it's reasonable to add a proper digitizer to the display, I think they'll do it. I could also see Pencil being useful on Watch for certain people in certain circumstances.
  • Reply 45 of 125
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,272member
    mac_128 said:
    paxman said:. 

    As far as removing the jack I could not care less. The iPhone headphones will not be compatible with other devices going forward, but what other devices do people use their headphones for these days? I do occasionally use headphones while watching movies on my Mac or iPad but I have many headsets lying around. Usually I share the screen with my wife so we need two headsets and yet there is only one jack. So I use a splitter. Not a problem. My guess is that people will rapidly turn to wireless headphones. For the ones among us that want the wires there are still about a million options. For people like me who want more than one headset to be connected to the same device there is another interesting question - will Apple facilitate multiple headset link-up over Bluetooth?
    That's right. There is not currently a Lightning audio splitter, and though the forthcoming Belkin adapter appears as though it might solve this problem, the website suggests it won't, and only supports one headphone and one charger. 
    You've been informed several times that you can split the fucking audio.
    tmayai46
  • Reply 46 of 125
    mrr said:
    Apple Pencil on iPhone? Absolutely! You say it wouldn't work on a small screen? I used a pen for years on a Newton and Palm Pilot. Great for text input and bet the shit out of a finger for drawing. The technology has already been perfected for the iPad Pro and would be cheaper to implement for a smaller screen there are really no technical constraints for producing and marketing this now. Plus there's the added incentive that Apple gets to sell a $100 pencil add on. There is also no reason that a smaller thinner and could not be created if the current one is too big for your tastes. In any case, I'm going to buy the first one that comes out because it something I can use every single day. I would have jumped to Samsung just for this feature if I wasn't tied into the iOS universe. Please Apple, listen to me and not Appleinsider.
    I used a palm pilot and treo phone for years. I got really good at grafitti, writing entire articles using the stylus-script on occasion. But it's simply far easier to type on a virtual keyboard. I never looked back. 

    There are basic capacitance-stylus devices for iOS, and some people apparently buy them. It is not a huge market. Apple knows this because it offers them in its retail stores. 

    Apple Pencil is not just a stylus stick; it's a precision drawing tool that requires a pressure sensitive screen and a specialized high-frequency touch sensor, in addition to supporting tilt detection. Those features all make it overkill for a small phone-sized device. 

    Someday, there may possibly be demand develop for pen-based drawing on mobile devices. But so far, Note remains a niche device and stylus pens for iOS lack much appeal, with the exception of the Pencil support on iPad Pro, where the canvas is large enough to warrant a dedicated drawing tool that costs another $99.
    baconstangroundaboutnowtmayDan Andersenration al
  • Reply 47 of 125
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,614member
    Soli said:
    mac_128 said:
    paxman said:. 

    As far as removing the jack I could not care less. The iPhone headphones will not be compatible with other devices going forward, but what other devices do people use their headphones for these days? I do occasionally use headphones while watching movies on my Mac or iPad but I have many headsets lying around. Usually I share the screen with my wife so we need two headsets and yet there is only one jack. So I use a splitter. Not a problem. My guess is that people will rapidly turn to wireless headphones. For the ones among us that want the wires there are still about a million options. For people like me who want more than one headset to be connected to the same device there is another interesting question - will Apple facilitate multiple headset link-up over Bluetooth?
    That's right. There is not currently a Lightning audio splitter, and though the forthcoming Belkin adapter appears as though it might solve this problem, the website suggests it won't, and only supports one headphone and one charger. 
    You've been informed several times that you can split the fucking audio.
    Belkin charger / splitter cable.
    http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F8J198/?clickid=WZU0mcTpVUU1yciyOO2I00b2Ukk1CnxWIwswT00&utm_campaign=Online Tracking Link&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=impactradius&irgwc=1
  • Reply 48 of 125
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,272member
    paxman said:
    Soli said:
    mac_128 said:
    paxman said:. 

    As far as removing the jack I could not care less. The iPhone headphones will not be compatible with other devices going forward, but what other devices do people use their headphones for these days? I do occasionally use headphones while watching movies on my Mac or iPad but I have many headsets lying around. Usually I share the screen with my wife so we need two headsets and yet there is only one jack. So I use a splitter. Not a problem. My guess is that people will rapidly turn to wireless headphones. For the ones among us that want the wires there are still about a million options. For people like me who want more than one headset to be connected to the same device there is another interesting question - will Apple facilitate multiple headset link-up over Bluetooth?
    That's right. There is not currently a Lightning audio splitter, and though the forthcoming Belkin adapter appears as though it might solve this problem, the website suggests it won't, and only supports one headphone and one charger. 
    You've been informed several times that you can split the fucking audio.
    Belkin charger / splitter cable.
    http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F8J198/?clickid=WZU0mcTpVUU1yciyOO2I00b2Ukk1CnxWIwswT00&utm_campaign=Online Tracking Link&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=impactradius&irgwc=1
    That's one partial solution. The solution you'd want if you want to also charge your phone whilst sharing a couple wired headphones.
  • Reply 49 of 125
    I love the new home button in the iPhone 7.
    It is faster than the iPhone 6 and it is actually adjustable in software.  It's awesome.

    Some people just don't like change at first but I think this will grow on them.
    When using touch ID, it is so much easier than swipe to unlock.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 125
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,133moderator
    My 2007 Acura TSX has, in the center console, a 12v outlet, which I plug a USB charger into, and an Audio In jack.  When I want to listen to music or a podcast from my iPhone 6 while driving, I fish around for the ends of the Lightning and audio cables I've got permanently plugged into those connections to the car.  I have to find two separate cable ends, and plug each into my iPhone.  

    Hmm, if I were a guy who was planning to get the latest iPhone - a multiple hundreds of dollars prospect - which would I do?  

    Would I,

    a) go on AppleInsider to complain there's no solution for listening in my car while charging?

    or

    b) be cheered by the notion that, with the iPhone 7/7+ and a mere $40 Lightning to dual-Lightning adapter from Belken, plus an extra $9 Lightning to 3.5mm dongle from Apple, permanently dedicated to bridging the audio cable to one side of the dual-Lighting adapter, and a Lightning cable (got tons of those left over from previous iPhones) permanently dedicated to bridging the USB charger to the other side of the dual-Lightning adapter, I've now got a setup where I can get in the car and fish around for just the one end of the Lightning to dual-Lightning adapter.  One connection to make rather than two each time I want to charge while piping music from my iPhone into my car stereo.  

    But alas, such first-world problems are soon to be a thing of the past in my existence, as I'm closing on the sale of my Boca Raton condo this coming Friday, selling the car to CarMAX and getting on a plane to the Philippines next Monday, off to live a life of adventure and giving back among a people whose lives are shaped by their culture, not their condition.  A people who would gently smile and not comment on the pettiness of the problems we moan about in online forums.  
    Solitmaywatto_cobramrboba1ai46ration al
  • Reply 51 of 125
    normmnormm Posts: 575member
    Too soon?


    radarthekattmaywatto_cobrabrucemcmrboba1
  • Reply 52 of 125
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,696member
    Screw the headphone jack.

    Screw the home button.

    Even if Apple made this move 2 years from now, there would be a few whiners, there always are.

    Progress can not stop just because of the protests of a few neanderthals. Time marches on, and you can either choose to get on board, or get left behind.

    The advantages outweigh any disadvantages, so that's really all that there is to say about this matter.

    If anybody longs for the old headphone jack, then go buy any iPhone that isn't called 7.


    edited September 2016 tmaywatto_cobralkruppration al
  • Reply 53 of 125
    Question for any who have already received their iPhone 7:  With the new home button, does it require 2 presses to open the phone?
  • Reply 54 of 125
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,696member
    Question for any who have already received their iPhone 7:  With the new home button, does it require 2 presses to open the phone?
    After updating my iPhone SE to iOS 10, it was weird how the phone now required an extra step to unlock it, but I was relieved when I found out that it could be disabled, so now unlocking is back to normal, how it was before the update.
    watto_cobraSpamSandwich
  • Reply 55 of 125
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,272member
    normm said:
    Too soon?


    This is chart is either poorly made or is designed to trick the reader. It's market share by revenue, not units, that have exceeding 50%. Market share by unit sales, which is the important decider when it comes to the end user, is just over 15%.
    Habi_tweetSpamSandwichration al
  • Reply 56 of 125
    evilution said:
    mactodd said:
    You didn't mention charging while listening. That's the biggest drawback to using Lightning headphones. Or wireless ones which need to be charged. You give up the functionality of listening on long trips, in a car, plane, train, etc. That's a step back.  At least without third party dongles. Apple should have introduced wireless charging first, so you could listen while staying charged.
    How to fix a dilemma that no one really ever had but keep bringing it up to try and prove a point?

    Next year's Android Samsung phones probably won't have a headphone jack either but don't worry, you can lug around your charging mat.

    If you are one of the 30 people who have genuinely charged and listened to music at the same time, buy the dongle.
    Incredibly rare problem fixed. But of course, you don't want to use a dongle as then you can't moan.
    More likely one of the thousands and thousands of people.

    What about charging while watching a movie? Or charging while video teleconferencing - which eats your battery?

    Apple's removal of the jack is super arrogant and short sighted.
    tmayHabi_tweet
  • Reply 57 of 125
    And they hate Apple so much that they would promote a Korean conglomerate (supposedly financially and politically sponsored by their country's government) that shamelessly copies Apple's products ?? I can understand American journalists picking sides with Google or Microsoft or non-Americans wanting us to all go to hell. But why do these presumably informed and educated Americans so publicly rail against an American company that doesn't mistreat its customers or steal from others, one that's almost like an angel among large corporations? Why??

    Shameless copies of Apple? That might have been the case early on, but now the market has matured Apple is basically copying Samsung just as the other way around. In fact, Apple is falling behind on innovation in some areas. You should be glad Samsung is there to spark healthy competition. 
    I'm not a fan of Android so that's why I use Apple products, but I'm certainly not pretending Apple is the standard and the 'others' are derivatives.

    And what are you suggesting about the fact Samsung is Korean? How arrogant of you to put Apple before another company just because it is American. And how arrogant of you to think the press should love Apple more than Samsung because Apple is American. Wake up hillbilly boy, America is just one a whole bunch of countries. 
    edited September 2016
  • Reply 58 of 125
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,133moderator
    Soli said:
    normm said:
    Too soon?


    This is chart is either poorly made or is designed to trick the reader. It's market share by revenue, not units, that have exceeding 50%. Market share by unit sales, which is the important decider when it comes to the end user, is just over 15%.
    Not sure that's correct.  People vote with their wallets.  If Bluetooth is capturing half the amount of money spent on listening, and that amount is growing while the amount spent on wired is shrinking, what more evidence does one need?  Early adopters usually pay a premium, but they also very often indicate a trend that trickles down along with prices.  I was in Target earlier today, saw many wireless sets in the $59-99 range, whereas a year ago $99 was the more prevalent starting price.  Unit market share will soon enough follow revenue market share.
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 59 of 125
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,272member
    Soli said:
    normm said:
    Too soon?


    This is chart is either poorly made or is designed to trick the reader. It's market share by revenue, not units, that have exceeding 50%. Market share by unit sales, which is the important decider when it comes to the end user, is just over 15%.
    Not sure that's correct.  People vote with their wallets.  If Bluetooth is capturing half the amount of money spent on listening, and that amount is growing while the amount spent on wired is shrinking, what more evidence does one need?  Early adopters usually pay a premium, but they also very often indicate a trend that trickles down along with prices.  I was in Target earlier today, saw many wireless sets in the $59-99 range, whereas a year ago $99 was the more prevalent starting price.  Unit market share will soon enough follow revenue market share.
    No, I'm correct. The chart makes an ambiguous statement that refers to revenue.
    franklinjackconration al
  • Reply 60 of 125
    qwwera said:
    Again the echo-chambe wanted a narrative that was a fallacy plain and simple. 
    You want to use a regular jack? Fine. You want to use the one provided by Apple? Fine. You want Bluetooth? Fine. Everything is there. Some fools just live to complain and some in the tech blogger sector want to pretend they are important.

    last week moron in charge of The Verge Nily Patel (the moron who called it a crime against humanity) on this podcast AltWaltDelete actually said that Apple making a better product with their own chip inside the Airpods was a devious move. I mean how dare Apple make a  better product. And it was all about making money! My god how dare they!! That was his argument. That Apple on their own  making a better wireless experience was ...like it was a bad thing.

    And he even pondered out-loud that Apple should pass on this technical advancement to everyone else so as to lose their advantage. I mean this is coming from the mouth of a dude that keeps saying he is/was a lawyer. He would be laughed out of any court with such asinine opinions.
     No one has made a valid argument against this least of a all a buffoon such as Nily Patel.

    ...And that my friends is the "brain" running a major tech blog. That's how low the standards in tech "journalism are today.
    I just want to post this quote again. :smiley: 
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
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