I cannot read the first link, and don't trust google translate. The second link is great. It does show the DAC in the adaptor is better. Thanks! The author of this article should have done what was done in the 2nd link and provide those measurements as objective results, as opposed to his "louder/better" conclusion.
The German article - if Google translate is to be trusted - says the Lightning adapter is less linear at lower (recorded) signal levels, so if there is a quiet passage with tape hiss, the tape hiss would be louder with the adapter than with the 3.5mm jack.
But it also says, "Frequency response and distortion are exemplary at both the internal connectors and the adapter."
I cannot read the first link, and don't trust google translate. The second link is great. It does show the DAC in the adaptor is better. Thanks! The author of this article should have done what was done in the 2nd link and provide those measurements as objective results, as opposed to his "louder/better" conclusion.
The German article - if Google translate is to be trusted - says the Lightning adapter is less linear at lower (recorded) signal levels, so if there is a quiet passage with tape hiss, the tape hiss would be louder with the adapter than with the 3.5mm jack.
But it also says, "Frequency response and distortion are exemplary at both the internal connectors and the adapter."
I'm still skeptical.
Here's a follow up with links to the original:
iPhone 7 hearing test: Audio adapter can amplify noise
Image: c't
Apple's new audio adapter for the Lightning port on the iPhone 7 is a major bone: In precise listening tests we found other peculiarities of the D / A converter out, which can lead to more noise.
Behind the Lightning connector Apple has built a Lightning chip with the identifier "338S00140 0KR1618 TW". He is responsible for the communication via the Lightning port and brings its own D / A converter unit according to our experience to date with. lie on the analog signals for stereo headphones and microphone for use of headsets to the four-pole 3.5mm jack socket of the adapter.
D / A converter is not operating linear
The built-in converter has some unusual properties that are dependent on whether it is connected to an iPhone or iPad. Metrologically he reached over the built-in socket inferior dynamics. The is 99.6 dB (A) on iPhone and 102.9 dB (A) at the iPad still always better than what is commonly known as "CD quality" describes internal sockets of the iPhone 6S and the iPad Air supplied with 104.1 dB (A) and 106.7 dB (A) but significantly better values that compete with those better professional audio interfaces entirely.
Under a microscope, the inscription of the Lightning chips in audio adapter is visible: 338S00140 0KR1618 TW.His exact specifications are still unknown to us.Image: c't
In hearing test, however, showed that the converter in the Lightning adapter dynamism not exploited because he does not work in contrast to the internal transformer of the iPhone and iPad at the lower end of the volume spectrum linearly. So he is in the listening test level with about -86 dBFS roughly as loud as level of -120 dBFS.
The effects are similar to those of a very low set parallel compressor. So you can hear extremely quiet signals with the adapter though, these are compressed beyond a certain threshold, however, so one perceives no difference in volume.This, however, is for example, a commonly used 16-bit recording dithering noise louder to hear than to the internal audio jack of the iPhone 6S and iPad Air. Their converters operate even in the lower volume range linearly, so that signals well beyond -86 dBFS be quieter.So we could with a low in-ear headphones (Beyerdynamic DTX-100, 12 ohms) hearing level to about -95 dBFS on iPhone 6S and -102 dBFS on iPad Air and perceive differences in volume.In other headphone models these perceptible level may be different.
When comparing the perceived loudness of normal pop songs we could despite the metrological level differences on the adapter and on the internal sleeve, however make no obvious volume differences, whether with in-ear headphones with 12 ohms or a headset with 70 Ohm ( Sennheiser HD-25).
Frequency response and distortion are exemplary at both the internal connectors and the adapter.
Conclusion
Apple Lightning audio adapter reinforced by our listening tests signals are quieter than about -86 dBFS. This may cause some shots a little more noise is noticeable, for example when analog tape recordings have been used or if a 16-bit music file - dithered - often as usual in mastering.
Listeners can only notice this, however, when they pointed their ears, use high-quality headphones with high efficiency or if they connect the audio adapter to a stereo system or powered speakers using the line input. This listener can understand this even at home, the computer magazine c't is in its upcoming issue 21/16, which appears on October 1, publish corresponding Test files to download.
In everyday life, when a user to listen to MP3 or AAC files with already highly compressed pop or rock music, but it will not notice the difference. was heard from developers circles that manufacturers now working on higher-quality audio adapters for the Lightning connector, which should also provide audiophile users satisfied. With the removal of very good internal audio jack on the iPhone 7 Apple can here the demand for such high-quality external converters quite stimulating. ( Hag )
I cannot read the first link, and don't trust google translate. The second link is great. It does show the DAC in the adaptor is better. Thanks! The author of this article should have done what was done in the 2nd link and provide those measurements as objective results, as opposed to his "louder/better" conclusion.
The German article - if Google translate is to be trusted - says the Lightning adapter is less linear at lower (recorded) signal levels, so if there is a quiet passage with tape hiss, the tape hiss would be louder with the adapter than with the 3.5mm jack.
But it also says, "Frequency response and distortion are exemplary at both the internal connectors and the adapter."
I'm still skeptical.
One of the things that sets excellent converters apart from ordinary ones is the quality of the analog filtering stage. The smaller you make it, the harder it is to make it "good." So it's *possible* that the the Lightning EarPods may be worse at reproducing signals farther below 0 dBFS than the phone itself. That said, I can't imagine that what's inside the phone is a helluvalot better!
It is absurd to think that because you plug into a 3.5mm jack on an adapter, its somehow magically better than plugging into the same size jack on the iphone itself. Of course, Apple could have decided to make them perform differently, but its nothing inherent in being a lightning port vs. 3.5mm jack. And louder != better, although many people will claim in blind tests that music played louder sounded better even when they are exactly the same other than being louder.
Absurd?? Not only is it not absurd, but it's very likely that there are differences for a variety of technical reasons that you can read about on other sites. Now, whether those differences are actually audible using the included EarPods is an interesting question. One the author painfully fails to address.
How about testing one of the few lightning headphones that are on the market, like the Philips M2L, or the JBL Reflect Aware for instance? There should be a gain in quality, without going into the obscene prices requested by Audeze for HI-FI
It would have been nice to have the Audio Technica/Sennheiser sit in a fixed position, a good mic suspended and placed between each clam, in a quiet and controlled environment, then record the output from each phone w/ and w/o lightning dongle. Then run the results through a spectrum analyzer app to visually, and more objectively, see the differences in sound reproduction.
update: I could not see the images in the link in a previous post. I see now that someone has done something similar.
It is absurd to think that because you plug into a 3.5mm jack on an adapter, its somehow magically better than plugging into the same size jack on the iphone itself. Of course, Apple could have decided to make them perform differently, but its nothing inherent in being a lightning port vs. 3.5mm jack. And louder != better, although many people will claim in blind tests that music played louder sounded better even when they are exactly the same other than being louder.
This. Also if the audio quality from the lightning connector was better surely that would have been the #1 thing Apple highlighted in the keynote, not this courage nonsense.
I cannot speak as to "quality" of sound, as that level of interpretation longs for lab testing; but I can assure you, most vehemently, that a set of normal 3.5mm jack headphones, plugged into the lightning port of an iPhone 7 (via included adapter), are quite noticeably louder. Of this I am 100% certain. I am an audio snob/audiophile.... whatever you want to call it, & start my day in the exact same way, without fail. The same bike ride, with the same headphones, at the same volume level. Sadly, on my favorite "kick around" pair of Koss', that is max volume... the iPhone simply drives them poorly (volumewise, I mean). I immediately (and to my IMMENSE pleasure) recognized the new volume levels they reached on my iPhone 7!!!! It is not as high as on say, a McIntosh home stereo, by any means... but DOES sound like a set of headphones connected to a midgrade in-line headphone amplifier.
It is absurd to think that because you plug into a 3.5mm jack on an adapter, its somehow magically better than plugging into the same size jack on the iphone itself. Of course, Apple could have decided to make them perform differently, but its nothing inherent in being a lightning port vs. 3.5mm jack. And louder != better, although many people will claim in blind tests that music played louder sounded better even when they are exactly the same other than being louder.
This. Also if the audio quality from the lightning connector was better surely that would have been the #1 thing Apple highlighted in the keynote, not this courage nonsense.
What's nonsensical about citing Jobs and Apple's ongoing courage of its convictions? Apple leads with bold strokes, the industry follows. That takes courage. That use of the word is fine and valid... he's not talking about jumping into a burning building.
But you knew that. Anything to troll your imaginary nemesis, Schiller. amirite?
This "test" is absolutely meaningless. "Increased highs and mids"? Yeah, you can increase the highs and mids on any audio playback, but that in itself doesn't necessairly mean the sound is more accurate or provides for a more compelling listening experience.
And then the statement that the playback on the iPhone 7 was a little louder. When comparing playback devices, tons of research shows that listeners invariably choose a somewhat louder playback as better sounding, even when the exact same audio is being played back in both instances.
I'm not convinced by the argument in a post above that says better audio quality can be achieved with the 3.5mm analogue output.
If this was the case a better internal DAC would have been used in previous generation iPhones and the 7 internally that can process uncompressed lossless files.
The external third party DACs to date, such as the Chord Mojo, are designed with USB in mind. I await a third party lightning orientated DAC for a true comparison with Apples own adaptor and it's current and past internal DACs.
I'm not convinced by the argument in a post above that says better audio quality can be achieved with the 3.5mm analogue output.
Why not? The "quality" of the signal is determined by a wide variety of factors, but whether the DAC and amplifier are located inside the phone body or an inch further down the chain (i.e. in the connector) isn't one of them.
If this was the case a better internal DAC would have been used in previous generation iPhones and the 7 internally that can process uncompressed lossless files.
This assumes that:
1. better converters that met Apple's design criteria were available, 2. the cost of "better" converters was in line with Apple's objectives, 3. that enough people perceived a benefit to warrant using something more "exotic" that may have resulted in trade-offs somewhere else.
I haven't heard a lot of people complaining that old iPhones sound bad. Besides, changing from one set of headphones to another will make about a million times more difference to the perceived quality of the sound than installing even the best converter chip in the world ever could.
Oh, and the DACs used inside iPhones *DO* pass uncompressed lossless files.
Again, I'm NOT arguing either for or against removal of the 3.5mm jack, I'm simply pointing out the specific objective of "better sound" could be accomplished whether they removed it or not. The option of providing a digital path out the Lightning port exists whether the device provides a 3.5mm jack or not, and if Apple chooses to use a better converter and amplifier there's no inherent advantage to them being in the headphones instead of inside the phone with a 3.5mm output. Both are good outcomes, but neither is a valid argument in support of removing the 3.5mm jack. The existence or removal of the jack doesn't affect the goal.
[... ] many people will claim in blind tests that music played louder sounded better even when they are exactly the same other than being louder.
Yup. In blind listening tests, if you give subjects two identical signal chains but make one of them a little louder, almost everyone will describe the louder one as "better." That's why level matching is a critical component of subjective comparisons, and why so many of these quick comparisons yield dubious conclusions.
And louder != better, although many people will claim in blind tests that music played louder sounded better even when they are exactly the same other than being louder.
Of course louder is better. That's why all those imbeciles drive down the street with music so loud that it's painful for bystanders even through closed car windows.
All that aside, the real benefit to a more powerful amp is not necessarily just to MAKE IT LOUDER!!! but to improve the quality of the sound at normal listening levels. If transient peaks don't bump up against the upper limits of the amplifier they don't distort.
Like mentioned earlier, the German magazine “Mac & i” did an in-depth test measuring the audio jack for the iPhone 6s and the lightning adapter for iPhone 7.
Notice, these are the results from technical measurements, not a listening test.
Here's the gist from their test:
“By dropping the internal audio jack, Apple degrades the output quality of music on the iPhone. The output jacks of the iPhone 6S and iPad Air are on par compared with professional audio interfaces. The new lightning adapter for the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus only get C level grades.
The differences are noticeable starting with 110 USD analog headphones, especially with uncompressed 24 bit audio files. With lossy compressed tunes (MP3, AAC), most users will hardly notice a difference. Bluetooth headphones and digital audio interfaces are not affected by the deterioration.”
Better technology - because now every speaker, headphone, etc. has to have a DAC. Yes, you can have better quality DACs and amplifiers. At a big cost.
Guess I have to throw away my $300 Bowers & Wilkins headphones because they use the "archaic" 3.5mm jack (and happen to sound 10x better than EarPods)
Thanks Apple! Courage!
Better technology - because now every speaker, headphone, etc. has to have a DAC. Yes, you can have better quality DACs and amplifiers. At a big cost.
Guess I have to throw away my $300 Bowers & Wilkins headphones because they use the "archaic" 3.5mm jack (and happen to sound 10x better than EarPods)
Thanks Apple! Courage!
Of course not. Such hyperbole.
I assume you have the P7s? If so, they have a detachable cable. So most likely all you have to do is buy a B&W Lightning cable to replace it. The DAC and amp they would build into the cable would be significantly higher than the one Apple includes in the iPhone, or Lightning adapter. So your incredible sounding B&W headphones will sound that much better than they ever have on any iPhone you've ever owned. You've spent $300 on a pair of B&W P7s, why wouldn't you invest another $50 to get a Lightning cable to take maximum advantage of the sound those headphones could offer?
I'm not convinced by the argument in a post above that says better audio quality can be achieved with the 3.5mm analogue output.
Why not? The "quality" of the signal is determined by a wide variety of factors, but whether the DAC and amplifier are located inside the phone body or an inch further down the chain (i.e. in the connector) isn't one of them.
If this was the case a better internal DAC would have been used in previous generation iPhones and the 7 internally that can process uncompressed lossless files.
This assumes that:
1. better converters that met Apple's design criteria were available, 2. the cost of "better" converters was in line with Apple's objectives, 3. that enough people perceived a benefit to warrant using something more "exotic" that may have resulted in trade-offs somewhere else.
I haven't heard a lot of people complaining that old iPhones sound bad. Besides, changing from one set of headphones to another will make about a million times more difference to the perceived quality of the sound than installing even the best converter chip in the world ever could.
Oh, and the DACs used inside iPhones *DO* pass uncompressed lossless files.
Again, I'm NOT arguing either for or against removal of the 3.5mm jack, I'm simply pointing out the specific objective of "better sound" could be accomplished whether they removed it or not. The option of providing a digital path out the Lightning port exists whether the device provides a 3.5mm jack or not, and if Apple chooses to use a better converter and amplifier there's no inherent advantage to them being in the headphones instead of inside the phone with a 3.5mm output. Both are good outcomes, but neither is a valid argument in support of removing the 3.5mm jack. The existence or removal of the jack doesn't affect the goal.
If the existing DACs can process uncompressed lossless audio, then a comparison with third party DACs is valid, regardless of 'complaints' or not.
You make reference to the quality of the analgone signal from the 3.5mm jack, what factors in your mind determines quality? Why did not you think an external DAC cannot be better than an internal one?
I think that having only a digital out from the 7 onwards make a good business case for third parties to innovate with DACs and transducers than before.
I don't agree with your assumptions- neither your nor I know Apple's aims.
If the existing DACs can process uncompressed lossless audio, then a comparison with third party DACs is valid, regardless of 'complaints' or not.
Of course. No argument here. My point was and is that WHERE the DAC is located is irrelevant. Placing it outside the phone body instead of inside doesn't somehow magically improve the quality of the DAC.
Of course, having a digital output DOES provide the opportunity for third parties to use their own electronics, but that's an argument in favour of a digital output, not against ALSO having an analog one, which requires nothing but a jack -- everything else required is already there. See below:
You make reference to the quality of the analgone signal from the 3.5mm jack, what factors in your mind determines quality? Why did not you think an external DAC cannot be better than an internal one?
An external DAC *could* be superior. It could just as easily be INFERIOR. It's up to the headphone designer. But that wasn't the point I was trying to address.
Providing a digital audio path out of the phone via the Lightning port is a positive step and opens the door to higher-quality audio peripherals. My point is simply that adding that feature is not affected by whether or not the 3.5mm jack exists.
The existence of the 3.5mm jack doesn't affect the ability to provide a digital audio output at all. The digital output through the Lightning port could be provided with or without a 3.5mm analog output. They could have both if they wanted to.
I think that having only a digital out from the 7 onwards make a good business case for third parties to innovate with DACs and transducers than before.
Could be, but that's a different argument. I wasn't discussing whether or not removing the analog output was a good idea or what Apple's motives may be. I was responding to the claim that the existence of the 3.5mm jack is an impediment to improving sound quality. It's not, unless you consider industry inertia an "impediment."
Like I said before, there may be lots of good reasons for Apple to remove the 3.5mm jack. All I'm speaking to is a single issue: the claim that it's not possible to move forward without killing it. That's demonstrably false.
I don't agree with your assumptions- neither your nor I know Apple's aims.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm simply providing an objective rebuttal of the claim made earlier in the thread and other places that it was necessary to remove the 3.5mm jack to improve audio quality. That's not true. Keeping or removing the jack is completely irrelevant to that objective. See the diagram below:
Whether the 3.5mm jack is removed or not, the iPhone still has an internal DAC and amplifier to drive the internal speakers. In past iterations it was also used to drive the headphones via the 3.5mm jack. Removing the jack doesn't remove the electronics. They're still there because they have to be for the telephone earpiece and speaker. They *could* still be driving an analog headphone output IN ADDITION to the digital Lightning output.
The net difference between conventional analog EarPods and Lightning EarPods is zero (minor generational differences between Crappy Last Year's DAC as used in the iPhone 6s and the Crappy This Year's DAC used in the Lighting EarPods notwithstanding). Providing a digital output lets third-parties use better components if they choose, but as you can see above, it isn't necessary to remove the 3.5mm jack to make that possible.
There are undoubtedly some really good reasons for Apple having removed the analog audio output jack. I don't pretend to know anything about the reasoning behind the choice. I'm just pointing out that there's no logic to the argument that removing it was necessary to get better sound in the future. That's all.
Comments
But it also says, "Frequency response and distortion are exemplary at both the internal connectors and the adapter."
I'm still skeptical.
iPhone 7 hearing test: Audio adapter can amplify noise
Image: c't
Apple's new audio adapter for the Lightning port on the iPhone 7 is a major bone: In precise listening tests we found other peculiarities of the D / A converter out, which can lead to more noise.
After last Friday initially the signal quality of the new Lightning Audio Adapter measured and with the internal audio jack of the iPhone 6s and iPad Air had compared, we have the adapter now open and made more hearing tests to analyze the sound characteristics more precisely.
Behind the Lightning connector Apple has built a Lightning chip with the identifier "338S00140 0KR1618 TW". He is responsible for the communication via the Lightning port and brings its own D / A converter unit according to our experience to date with. lie on the analog signals for stereo headphones and microphone for use of headsets to the four-pole 3.5mm jack socket of the adapter.
D / A converter is not operating linear
The built-in converter has some unusual properties that are dependent on whether it is connected to an iPhone or iPad. Metrologically he reached over the built-in socket inferior dynamics. The is 99.6 dB (A) on iPhone and 102.9 dB (A) at the iPad still always better than what is commonly known as "CD quality" describes internal sockets of the iPhone 6S and the iPad Air supplied with 104.1 dB (A) and 106.7 dB (A) but significantly better values that compete with those better professional audio interfaces entirely.
Under a microscope, the inscription of the Lightning chips in audio adapter is visible: 338S00140 0KR1618 TW.His exact specifications are still unknown to us.Image: c't
In hearing test, however, showed that the converter in the Lightning adapter dynamism not exploited because he does not work in contrast to the internal transformer of the iPhone and iPad at the lower end of the volume spectrum linearly. So he is in the listening test level with about -86 dBFS roughly as loud as level of -120 dBFS.
The effects are similar to those of a very low set parallel compressor. So you can hear extremely quiet signals with the adapter though, these are compressed beyond a certain threshold, however, so one perceives no difference in volume.This, however, is for example, a commonly used 16-bit recording dithering noise louder to hear than to the internal audio jack of the iPhone 6S and iPad Air. Their converters operate even in the lower volume range linearly, so that signals well beyond -86 dBFS be quieter.So we could with a low in-ear headphones (Beyerdynamic DTX-100, 12 ohms) hearing level to about -95 dBFS on iPhone 6S and -102 dBFS on iPad Air and perceive differences in volume.In other headphone models these perceptible level may be different.
When comparing the perceived loudness of normal pop songs we could despite the metrological level differences on the adapter and on the internal sleeve, however make no obvious volume differences, whether with in-ear headphones with 12 ohms or a headset with 70 Ohm ( Sennheiser HD-25).
Frequency response and distortion are exemplary at both the internal connectors and the adapter.
Conclusion
Apple Lightning audio adapter reinforced by our listening tests signals are quieter than about -86 dBFS. This may cause some shots a little more noise is noticeable, for example when analog tape recordings have been used or if a 16-bit music file - dithered - often as usual in mastering.
Listeners can only notice this, however, when they pointed their ears, use high-quality headphones with high efficiency or if they connect the audio adapter to a stereo system or powered speakers using the line input. This listener can understand this even at home, the computer magazine c't is in its upcoming issue 21/16, which appears on October 1, publish corresponding Test files to download.
In everyday life, when a user to listen to MP3 or AAC files with already highly compressed pop or rock music, but it will not notice the difference. was heard from developers circles that manufacturers now working on higher-quality audio adapters for the Lightning connector, which should also provide audiophile users satisfied. With the removal of very good internal audio jack on the iPhone 7 Apple can here the demand for such high-quality external converters quite stimulating. ( Hag )
update: I could not see the images in the link in a previous post. I see now that someone has done something similar.
Of this I am 100% certain. I am an audio snob/audiophile.... whatever you want to call it, & start my day in the exact same way, without fail.
The same bike ride, with the same headphones, at the same volume level. Sadly, on my favorite "kick around" pair of Koss', that is max volume... the iPhone simply drives them poorly (volumewise, I mean). I immediately (and to my IMMENSE pleasure) recognized the new volume levels they reached on my iPhone 7!!!!
It is not as high as on say, a McIntosh home stereo, by any means... but DOES sound like a set of headphones connected to a midgrade in-line headphone amplifier.
Schiller? I thought "she" was against Cue...
And then the statement that the playback on the iPhone 7 was a little louder. When comparing playback devices, tons of research shows that listeners invariably choose a somewhat louder playback as better sounding, even when the exact same audio is being played back in both instances.
If this was the case a better internal DAC would have been used in previous generation iPhones and the 7 internally that can process uncompressed lossless files.
The external third party DACs to date, such as the Chord Mojo, are designed with USB in mind. I await a third party lightning orientated DAC for a true comparison with Apples own adaptor and it's current and past internal DACs.
Why not? The "quality" of the signal is determined by a wide variety of factors, but whether the DAC and amplifier are located inside the phone body or an inch further down the chain (i.e. in the connector) isn't one of them.
This assumes that:
1. better converters that met Apple's design criteria were available,
2. the cost of "better" converters was in line with Apple's objectives,
3. that enough people perceived a benefit to warrant using something more "exotic" that may have resulted in trade-offs somewhere else.
I haven't heard a lot of people complaining that old iPhones sound bad. Besides, changing from one set of headphones to another will make about a million times more difference to the perceived quality of the sound than installing even the best converter chip in the world ever could.
Oh, and the DACs used inside iPhones *DO* pass uncompressed lossless files.
Again, I'm NOT arguing either for or against removal of the 3.5mm jack, I'm simply pointing out the specific objective of "better sound" could be accomplished whether they removed it or not. The option of providing a digital path out the Lightning port exists whether the device provides a 3.5mm jack or not, and if Apple chooses to use a better converter and amplifier there's no inherent advantage to them being in the headphones instead of inside the phone with a 3.5mm output. Both are good outcomes, but neither is a valid argument in support of removing the 3.5mm jack. The existence or removal of the jack doesn't affect the goal.
Notice, these are the results from technical measurements, not a listening test.
Here's the gist from their test:
“By dropping the internal audio jack, Apple degrades the output quality of music on the iPhone. The output jacks of the iPhone 6S and iPad Air are on par compared with professional audio interfaces. The new lightning adapter for the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus only get C level grades.
Source: http://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/iPhone-7-nachgemessen-Audio-Adapter-liefert-schlechteren-Sound-3325932.html
I assume you have the P7s? If so, they have a detachable cable. So most likely all you have to do is buy a B&W Lightning cable to replace it. The DAC and amp they would build into the cable would be significantly higher than the one Apple includes in the iPhone, or Lightning adapter. So your incredible sounding B&W headphones will sound that much better than they ever have on any iPhone you've ever owned. You've spent $300 on a pair of B&W P7s, why wouldn't you invest another $50 to get a Lightning cable to take maximum advantage of the sound those headphones could offer?
You make reference to the quality of the analgone signal from the 3.5mm jack, what factors in your mind determines quality? Why did not you think an external DAC cannot be better than an internal one?
I think that having only a digital out from the 7 onwards make a good business case for third parties to innovate with DACs and transducers than before.
I don't agree with your assumptions- neither your nor I know Apple's aims.
It seems I did not do a very good job of explaining what I meant. I'll try to be more clear.
Of course. No argument here. My point was and is that WHERE the DAC is located is irrelevant. Placing it outside the phone body instead of inside doesn't somehow magically improve the quality of the DAC.
Of course, having a digital output DOES provide the opportunity for third parties to use their own electronics, but that's an argument in favour of a digital output, not against ALSO having an analog one, which requires nothing but a jack -- everything else required is already there. See below:
An external DAC *could* be superior. It could just as easily be INFERIOR. It's up to the headphone designer. But that wasn't the point I was trying to address.
Providing a digital audio path out of the phone via the Lightning port is a positive step and opens the door to higher-quality audio peripherals. My point is simply that adding that feature is not affected by whether or not the 3.5mm jack exists.
The existence of the 3.5mm jack doesn't affect the ability to provide a digital audio output at all. The digital output through the Lightning port could be provided with or without a 3.5mm analog output. They could have both if they wanted to.
Could be, but that's a different argument. I wasn't discussing whether or not removing the analog output was a good idea or what Apple's motives may be. I was responding to the claim that the existence of the 3.5mm jack is an impediment to improving sound quality. It's not, unless you consider industry inertia an "impediment."
Like I said before, there may be lots of good reasons for Apple to remove the 3.5mm jack. All I'm speaking to is a single issue: the claim that it's not possible to move forward without killing it. That's demonstrably false.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm simply providing an objective rebuttal of the claim made earlier in the thread and other places that it was necessary to remove the 3.5mm jack to improve audio quality. That's not true. Keeping or removing the jack is completely irrelevant to that objective. See the diagram below:
Whether the 3.5mm jack is removed or not, the iPhone still has an internal DAC and amplifier to drive the internal speakers. In past iterations it was also used to drive the headphones via the 3.5mm jack. Removing the jack doesn't remove the electronics. They're still there because they have to be for the telephone earpiece and speaker. They *could* still be driving an analog headphone output IN ADDITION to the digital Lightning output.
The net difference between conventional analog EarPods and Lightning EarPods is zero (minor generational differences between Crappy Last Year's DAC as used in the iPhone 6s and the Crappy This Year's DAC used in the Lighting EarPods notwithstanding). Providing a digital output lets third-parties use better components if they choose, but as you can see above, it isn't necessary to remove the 3.5mm jack to make that possible.
There are undoubtedly some really good reasons for Apple having removed the analog audio output jack. I don't pretend to know anything about the reasoning behind the choice. I'm just pointing out that there's no logic to the argument that removing it was necessary to get better sound in the future. That's all.