The Xserve is a different mobo than the infamous "red eBay board" that popped up.
The red board had AirPort, Xserve does not.
The red board had 4 vertical PCI slots, Xserve does not in fact its three slots are horizontal and are on either side of the board (2x on on side, 1x/AGP on the other).
The new motherboard matches somewhat to the layout of the current G4 case, but there are numerous cutouts for some reason on the board. Normally the board would be regularly shaped since it needs not fit *around* much of anything due to its small size vs. the internals of the G4.
I'd say the red board was some prototype/test board for a future product that may have substantially cramped innards, definately not a minor G4/DDR mobo bump IMHO.
1 AGP (at least 4x by the switch in front of the green slot)
4 RAM slots (can you say 2GB?) <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
3 IDE connectors (1 front right, 2 near back right) for multiple opticals/RAID
2 USB (USB 2.0) Ports on left end of row
RJ 11 for modem and RJ 45 for 10/100/1000 Enet (3rd and 2nd from Right)
2 Firewire2 ports (taller than USB, must be 8 wire, ergo FW2) next to USB
Audio? port on extreme right of port row (maybe power switch)
ADC and DVI connectors (back left)
no apparent heatsink on cpu (although cpu is on the other side of the board, the board appears almost flush w/table, not raised to the height of small sink at lower right)
i may be wrong (much squinting required to deduce this much from a pretty low res photo) and of course there is no guarantee this board makes it past the dev stage to shipping product, but if we are getting this board with it's alleged RIO or HT bus improvements (on other side with L3...) the list above sounds pretty sweet.
I like it. Not only the explanation, but also the fact that this is one of those rare posts that do not mention the clockfrequency of the processor involved
Point of interest could be the fact that there should be at least two 3.5" minijacks there: one for audio out, one for Apple speakers. I see only one. So definately no audio input then.
Oh well, I guess that the tentative Pro user, whom this mobo is alledgedly intended for would maybe require something more manly than on-board audio input (...emagic makes USB audio hardware...)
(edit)But hey! where is the Airport on this one? Could it be that this *is* in fact an early Xserve Mobo, even though the Xserve has four separate ATA controllers (dunno what those things would look like)?
No, the AirPort card goes in the connector back left that curiousuburb said was the ADC/DVI connector. There is no graphics connector on this mobo, which makes sense given the AGP slot, no? (Only problem with this: the card would have to face *out*, not in. Hmmm. I guess it's not too unusual for a dev board.)
Also, the CPU isn't included. The large white connector next to the RAM slots, behind the ports, is a CPU daughtercard connector. (I know, I just dismantled my PowerBook and saw the exact same connector for the CPU daughtercard.) The CPU card clicks into place there. So this is not only a graphics output-less mobo, but a brainless one as well.
One other curiosity to make note of. This board would not fit into any currently shipping enclosure from apple. If you tried to fit it into an El Capitan case... all of the connectors are in the wrong spots to effectively fit. if you place the ide connectors next to the hinge like a G4 does, then the PCI cards and AGP port would collide with the power supply. if you orented the board to allow the PCI cards to fit then the case would have to be a left handed opener instead of right, and the IDE cables would have to be another 12 inches longer, and be tucked under the mother board.
This board may have been built to explore the ergonomics of a left handed case door.
If the CPu is oriented as one poster suggested, then that would mean NO DAUGHTER CARD! NO DAUGHTER CARD would mean the end of any from of upgradeable mac!
I would boycott any such model. Such manouvers are excuseable in a portable, or in an iMac (barely), but not by any means in a pro tower.
Let's hope Steve's head isn't that far up his ass!
1 AGP (at least 4x by the switch in front of the green slot)
4 RAM slots (can you say 2GB?) <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
3 IDE connectors (1 front right, 2 near back right) for multiple opticals/RAID
2 USB (USB 2.0) Ports on left end of row
RJ 11 for modem and RJ 45 for 10/100/1000 Enet (3rd and 2nd from Right)
2 Firewire2 ports (taller than USB, must be 8 wire, ergo FW2) next to USB
Audio? port on extreme right of port row (maybe power switch)
ADC and DVI connectors (back left)
no apparent heatsink on cpu (although cpu is on the other side of the board, the board appears almost flush w/table, not raised to the height of small sink at lower right)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You've got some things wrong and I've got a few things to add:
First, the CPU is on a CPU board that plugs into that white socket. It's not on the other side of the board.
Second, those are DDR memory sockets for those of you who were wondering.
Third, How do you know it's USB 2.0?
Forth, There are 2 400Mb firewire ports beside a single 800Mb firewire port (it has a different shape.)
Fifth, the rightmost port is audio as you suspect.
It looks like a cool board but isn't anything that revolutionary. I think that there is a very good chance that this (or a similar board) will be the board included with the upcoming PowerMac.
Um, no. Those would be on the graphics card if there was one attached.</strong><hr></blockquote>
d'oh! <slaps forehead>. i twigged after posting.
plus the fact they'd be facing away from all the ports (and though i could see usb2 and fw2 on the front, enet cables into the faceplate would look decidedly inelegant and unmaclike)
as for these back left slots for airport card,
i thought about this... but it looks like a resistor is occluding the port... maybe airport is the other white slot
cpu couldn't be on the other side either...
that one i should have caught, but tried to count solder points to speculate on the flipside chips.
daughtercard for cpu would suggest DUAL, though.
as for the layout and case fit to current designs,
it's possible this image has been flipped, but i'm inclined to believe new mobos are pending for towers as well as the new enclosure for superdrive powerbooks (and their tweaked mobos... but this clearly isn't a pb mobo - PCI).
thanks for correcting the adc/dvi error. my bad.
"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history -- with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila."
- Mitch Ratcliffe, _Technology Review_, April, 1992
Having taken apart a fair amount of G4s as an AppleCare tech, i can see a few innacuracies in how people have interpreted this MLB. That it is a prototype is for sure, the red color is a sure indicator that it was not a release board. Some very interesting things pop out immediately - there are four pci slots and 4 ram slots. When the G4 Digital Audio board came out with its 4th PCI slot, we lost one of the ram slots, so far to date, we have not seen a board with both 4 ram and 4 pci slots - very interesting.
One poster said the CPU was on the back, this is not the case. The white rectangular CPU slot cap is still on the board. This is the standard CPU connector for G4s ever since the Yikes board was discontinued, and the AGP G4 was introduced. This connector was also used in the last generations of the G3 Powerbook - as another poster noted.
The Airport connector is opposite the PCI slots, not inconsistent with past MLB designs, for example if you open your G4 Gigabit Ethernet, and look at the airport connector, you will see it is exactly opposite your PCI slots.
Also familiar from other G4 Mainboard designs is the modem port - no modem is attached. The connector port is identical to the modem ports used on G4 MLBs ever since the first AGP G4 Mobo.
Worth looking at is the third ATA Port, which would be a change.
The form factor is very odd indee, either the photograph is backwards, or the mainboard is built BACKWARDs. Along with that, the ports are pushed back further than the PCI slots. this is inconsistent with any G4 Case Form Factor i am familiar with,and i am familiar with all of them. I wouldn't read too much into this, as the test and proto machines are typically much different form factors than the retail models.
The most significant detail i have noticed about this board is not what IS there, but rather what is NOT there. On first glance, i realized this board does not include the Digital Audio hardware which was introduced in the Digital Audio Mainboard. based on this, we can assume this board is PRE-Digital audio. I would be willing to bet good money that this was a prototype from somewhere between G4 Gigiabit - G4 Digital Audio.
Nothing too impressive about the board, with the exception of the 4 pci and 4 ram slots. That would be a welcome change! Hopefully the next board will come with 4 or more slots fot DDR Ram.
bluish boards are shipping (and in current macs)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Only one shipping Mac has a blue motherboard, and that's the Xserve. Every other Mac has a more traditional green motherboard.
[quote]you will notice:
4 PCI slots
1 AGP (at least 4x by the switch in front of the green slot)
4 RAM slots (can you say 2GB?) <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
3 IDE connectors (1 front right, 2 near back right) for multiple opticals/RAID
2 USB (USB 2.0) Ports on left end of row
RJ 11 for modem and RJ 45 for 10/100/1000 Enet (3rd and 2nd from Right)
2 Firewire2 ports (taller than USB, must be 8 wire, ergo FW2) next to USB
Audio? port on extreme right of port row (maybe power switch)
ADC and DVI connectors (back left)
no apparent heatsink on cpu (although cpu is on the other side of the board, the board appears almost flush w/table, not raised to the height of small sink at lower right)
<hr></blockquote>
1) There's no switch in front of the AGP slot. That's a power connector for boards with ADC.
2) I don't see an RJ11 port anywhere.
3) 8-pin FireWire? Those two FireWire ports are exactly the same as any old 6-pin FireWire ports. I do see one 9-pin Beta or Bilingual IEEE 1394b port though.
4) ADC and DVI connectors? Uh, those would be on the AGP board which is not present.
5) Okay, no heatsink on the CPU? What CPU? You see that white LIF slot above the I/O ports? That's where the CPU riser card goes.
[QB]If the CPu is oriented as one poster suggested, then that would mean NO DAUGHTER CARD! NO DAUGHTER CARD would mean the end of any from of upgradeable mac!
we can assume this board is PRE-Digital audio. I would be willing to bet good money that this was a prototype from somewhere between G4 Gigiabit... <hr></blockquote>
So you are saying that Apple was messing around with DDR type boards over 18 months ago?
<strong>If the CPu is oriented as one poster suggested, then that would mean NO DAUGHTER CARD! NO DAUGHTER CARD would mean the end of any from of upgradeable mac!
I would boycott any such model. Such manouvers are excuseable in a portable, or in an iMac (barely), but not by any means in a pro tower.
Let's hope Steve's head isn't that far up his ass!
I don't know how relevant this is to the Mac world, as I have not cracked many Mac's open, but PC companies have been releasing Red MB's for a little while now. Something different than good 'ol green I suppose.
<strong>Out of curiousity, how do we know that this is even a Mac motherboard, besides just taking the person on Ebay's word for it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Another way we can tell it is an apple motherboard is the CPU connector, which is not used on mainboards by another manufacturer.
As for the apparent revelation that apple was messing around with DDR before the release of the DigAudio G4, I am not surprised, in fact i'd go so far to say that they we're 'messing around' with DDR since its inception - but never included it on the board for one of the two following reasons - 1. too expensive, or 2. they couldn't get it too work well enough to release it..
Furthermore, i would say that apple is probably working on the next generation of ram or other volitile memory hardware right now Does this mean we should expect it at the next mac world? No, it takes time to perfect the mainboard architecture, remember firewire was around in proto boards for a LOONG time before its debut on the B&W Yosemite G3.
I think apple is smart enough to include DDR in its roadmap for the PowerMac, but they won't include it if it means the Price is going to triple due to either increased harware costs, or R&D costs.
Comments
The red board had AirPort, Xserve does not.
The red board had 4 vertical PCI slots, Xserve does not in fact its three slots are horizontal and are on either side of the board (2x on on side, 1x/AGP on the other).
The new motherboard matches somewhat to the layout of the current G4 case, but there are numerous cutouts for some reason on the board. Normally the board would be regularly shaped since it needs not fit *around* much of anything due to its small size vs. the internals of the G4.
I'd say the red board was some prototype/test board for a future product that may have substantially cramped innards, definately not a minor G4/DDR mobo bump IMHO.
red colour is usually the mark of a dev board
bluish boards are shipping (and in current macs)
that said... have a closer look at the picture
you will notice:
- 4 PCI slots
- 1 AGP (at least 4x by the switch in front of the green slot)
- 4 RAM slots (can you say 2GB?) <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
- 3 IDE connectors (1 front right, 2 near back right) for multiple opticals/RAID
- 2 USB (USB 2.0) Ports on left end of row
- RJ 11 for modem and RJ 45 for 10/100/1000 Enet (3rd and 2nd from Right)
- 2 Firewire2 ports (taller than USB, must be 8 wire, ergo FW2) next to USB
- Audio? port on extreme right of port row (maybe power switch)
- ADC and DVI connectors (back left)
- no apparent heatsink on cpu (although cpu is on the other side of the board, the board appears almost flush w/table, not raised to the height of small sink at lower right)
i may be wrong (much squinting required to deduce this much from a pretty low res photo) and of course there is no guarantee this board makes it past the dev stage to shipping product, but if we are getting this board with it's alleged RIO or HT bus improvements (on other side with L3...) the list above sounds pretty sweet.comments?
[edited for spelling by curiousuburb]
[ 07-09-2002: Message edited by: curiousuburb ]</p>
<strong>greetings
the list above sounds pretty sweet.
comments?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I like it. Not only the explanation, but also the fact that this is one of those rare posts that do not mention the clockfrequency of the processor involved
Point of interest could be the fact that there should be at least two 3.5" minijacks there: one for audio out, one for Apple speakers. I see only one. So definately no audio input then.
Oh well, I guess that the tentative Pro user, whom this mobo is alledgedly intended for would maybe require something more manly than on-board audio input (...emagic makes USB audio hardware...)
(edit)But hey! where is the Airport on this one? Could it be that this *is* in fact an early Xserve Mobo, even though the Xserve has four separate ATA controllers (dunno what those things would look like)?
[ 07-09-2002: Message edited by: Buis ]</p>
Also, the CPU isn't included. The large white connector next to the RAM slots, behind the ports, is a CPU daughtercard connector. (I know, I just dismantled my PowerBook and saw the exact same connector for the CPU daughtercard.) The CPU card clicks into place there. So this is not only a graphics output-less mobo, but a brainless one as well.
The rest seems reasonable though.
This board may have been built to explore the ergonomics of a left handed case door.
I would boycott any such model. Such manouvers are excuseable in a portable, or in an iMac (barely), but not by any means in a pro tower.
Let's hope Steve's head isn't that far up his ass!
[ 07-09-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
Um, no. Those would be on the graphics card if there was one attached.
<strong>greetings
red colour is usually the mark of a dev board
bluish boards are shipping (and in current macs)
that said... have a closer look at the picture
you will notice:
- 4 PCI slots
- 1 AGP (at least 4x by the switch in front of the green slot)
- 4 RAM slots (can you say 2GB?) <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
- 3 IDE connectors (1 front right, 2 near back right) for multiple opticals/RAID
- 2 USB (USB 2.0) Ports on left end of row
- RJ 11 for modem and RJ 45 for 10/100/1000 Enet (3rd and 2nd from Right)
- 2 Firewire2 ports (taller than USB, must be 8 wire, ergo FW2) next to USB
- Audio? port on extreme right of port row (maybe power switch)
- ADC and DVI connectors (back left)
- no apparent heatsink on cpu (although cpu is on the other side of the board, the board appears almost flush w/table, not raised to the height of small sink at lower right)
</strong><hr></blockquote>You've got some things wrong and I've got a few things to add:
First, the CPU is on a CPU board that plugs into that white socket. It's not on the other side of the board.
Second, those are DDR memory sockets for those of you who were wondering.
Third, How do you know it's USB 2.0?
Forth, There are 2 400Mb firewire ports beside a single 800Mb firewire port (it has a different shape.)
Fifth, the rightmost port is audio as you suspect.
It looks like a cool board but isn't anything that revolutionary. I think that there is a very good chance that this (or a similar board) will be the board included with the upcoming PowerMac.
William
<strong>
Um, no. Those would be on the graphics card if there was one attached.</strong><hr></blockquote>
d'oh! <slaps forehead>. i twigged after posting.
plus the fact they'd be facing away from all the ports (and though i could see usb2 and fw2 on the front, enet cables into the faceplate would look decidedly inelegant and unmaclike)
as for these back left slots for airport card,
i thought about this... but it looks like a resistor is occluding the port... maybe airport is the other white slot
cpu couldn't be on the other side either...
that one i should have caught, but tried to count solder points to speculate on the flipside chips.
daughtercard for cpu would suggest DUAL, though.
as for the layout and case fit to current designs,
it's possible this image has been flipped, but i'm inclined to believe new mobos are pending for towers as well as the new enclosure for superdrive powerbooks (and their tweaked mobos... but this clearly isn't a pb mobo - PCI).
thanks for correcting the adc/dvi error. my bad.
"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history -- with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila."
- Mitch Ratcliffe, _Technology Review_, April, 1992
[ 07-09-2002: Message edited by: curiousuburb ]
[ 07-09-2002: Message edited by: curiousuburb ]</p>
One poster said the CPU was on the back, this is not the case. The white rectangular CPU slot cap is still on the board. This is the standard CPU connector for G4s ever since the Yikes board was discontinued, and the AGP G4 was introduced. This connector was also used in the last generations of the G3 Powerbook - as another poster noted.
The Airport connector is opposite the PCI slots, not inconsistent with past MLB designs, for example if you open your G4 Gigabit Ethernet, and look at the airport connector, you will see it is exactly opposite your PCI slots.
Also familiar from other G4 Mainboard designs is the modem port - no modem is attached. The connector port is identical to the modem ports used on G4 MLBs ever since the first AGP G4 Mobo.
Worth looking at is the third ATA Port, which would be a change.
The form factor is very odd indee, either the photograph is backwards, or the mainboard is built BACKWARDs. Along with that, the ports are pushed back further than the PCI slots. this is inconsistent with any G4 Case Form Factor i am familiar with,and i am familiar with all of them. I wouldn't read too much into this, as the test and proto machines are typically much different form factors than the retail models.
The most significant detail i have noticed about this board is not what IS there, but rather what is NOT there. On first glance, i realized this board does not include the Digital Audio hardware which was introduced in the Digital Audio Mainboard. based on this, we can assume this board is PRE-Digital audio. I would be willing to bet good money that this was a prototype from somewhere between G4 Gigiabit - G4 Digital Audio.
Nothing too impressive about the board, with the exception of the 4 pci and 4 ram slots. That would be a welcome change! Hopefully the next board will come with 4 or more slots fot DDR Ram.
<strong>greetings
red colour is usually the mark of a dev board
bluish boards are shipping (and in current macs)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Only one shipping Mac has a blue motherboard, and that's the Xserve. Every other Mac has a more traditional green motherboard.
[quote]you will notice:
- 4 PCI slots
- 1 AGP (at least 4x by the switch in front of the green slot)
- 4 RAM slots (can you say 2GB?) <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
- 3 IDE connectors (1 front right, 2 near back right) for multiple opticals/RAID
- 2 USB (USB 2.0) Ports on left end of row
- RJ 11 for modem and RJ 45 for 10/100/1000 Enet (3rd and 2nd from Right)
- 2 Firewire2 ports (taller than USB, must be 8 wire, ergo FW2) next to USB
- Audio? port on extreme right of port row (maybe power switch)
- ADC and DVI connectors (back left)
- no apparent heatsink on cpu (although cpu is on the other side of the board, the board appears almost flush w/table, not raised to the height of small sink at lower right)
<hr></blockquote>1) There's no switch in front of the AGP slot. That's a power connector for boards with ADC.
2) I don't see an RJ11 port anywhere.
3) 8-pin FireWire? Those two FireWire ports are exactly the same as any old 6-pin FireWire ports. I do see one 9-pin Beta or Bilingual IEEE 1394b port though.
4) ADC and DVI connectors? Uh, those would be on the AGP board which is not present.
5) Okay, no heatsink on the CPU? What CPU? You see that white LIF slot above the I/O ports? That's where the CPU riser card goes.
[QB]If the CPu is oriented as one poster suggested, then that would mean NO DAUGHTER CARD! NO DAUGHTER CARD would mean the end of any from of upgradeable mac!
<snip><hr></blockquote>
Matsu is dumb.
we can assume this board is PRE-Digital audio. I would be willing to bet good money that this was a prototype from somewhere between G4 Gigiabit... <hr></blockquote>
So you are saying that Apple was messing around with DDR type boards over 18 months ago?
That seriously disappoints me.
<strong>If the CPu is oriented as one poster suggested, then that would mean NO DAUGHTER CARD! NO DAUGHTER CARD would mean the end of any from of upgradeable mac!
I would boycott any such model. Such manouvers are excuseable in a portable, or in an iMac (barely), but not by any means in a pro tower.
Let's hope Steve's head isn't that far up his ass!
[ 07-09-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Which reminds me, does the new iMac have a soldered on CPU, or does it have a daughter card. I know the IMac DV's had removable CPU's
<strong>
So you are saying that Apple was messing around with DDR type boards over 18 months ago?
That seriously disappoints me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's what Dorsal said. DDR for MWNY2001
He [or she
[ 07-10-2002: Message edited by: DaveLee ]</p>
<strong>Out of curiousity, how do we know that this is even a Mac motherboard, besides just taking the person on Ebay's word for it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
One word: AirPort
As for the apparent revelation that apple was messing around with DDR before the release of the DigAudio G4, I am not surprised, in fact i'd go so far to say that they we're 'messing around' with DDR since its inception - but never included it on the board for one of the two following reasons - 1. too expensive, or 2. they couldn't get it too work well enough to release it..
Furthermore, i would say that apple is probably working on the next generation of ram or other volitile memory hardware right now Does this mean we should expect it at the next mac world? No, it takes time to perfect the mainboard architecture, remember firewire was around in proto boards for a LOONG time before its debut on the B&W Yosemite G3.
I think apple is smart enough to include DDR in its roadmap for the PowerMac, but they won't include it if it means the Price is going to triple due to either increased harware costs, or R&D costs.