this shouldn't need to be stated but, it doesn't matter if "other phones" have water seals -- they aren't operating within the design and confines of this device, the iphone. obviously there will be a great many differences -- such as the haptic engine, shell, etc. the constraints of one brand aren't thusly the same for every other design.
again, why on earth would i doubt the senior apple hardware guy who actually is an engineer and actually works on this product?
i guess i'm struggling to understand your point...you think there should be a 10% bigger bettery from the space saved. but instead we got better cameras, a better image processor, water seals, and a somewhat larger battery. and that's prompting you to complain and/or suggest people instead want just a larger battery?
Just as you should with me, you should take what the Senior Apple hardware guy has to say with a grain of salt. Water-proofing a headphone jack CAN be done. There is no question about it so already he is bending the truth or perhaps not being clear with his statements.
With regards to what I am stating is that "we got better cameras, a better image processor, water seals" not by removing the headphone jack but just through refined engineering. This is pretty obvious. The "somewhat larger battery" is due to the headphone jack being removed but it was made smaller in the iPhone 6s from the iPhone 6 due to Taptic and 3D touch. Some users don't even notice Taptic and 3D touch from their previous iPhones and don't even know it exists. They do notice battery life or headphone port being missing.
News flash: iPhone 7 removes lightning port. Sync via iCloud and use wireless charging. Greg Joswiak Apple VP says "we needed the space for the better camera/battery/slimmer design/IP69 rating".
no, he isn't. again you're not listening -- one brand's model is not another brand's model. each model has its own shell design, component layout, unique constraints, etc. you're making a false equivalency to say "well this other one has a water seal so apple is lying". that doesn't fly because one brand's phone isn't this phone. i really don't understand how you don't know that if you design for electronic devices as you say.
no, what you're claiming is not "pretty obvious". you're claiming the reason we got these new things is because of what you, a random guy on a rumors site, says rather that what the actual cheif engineer working on the device says. that's just absurd. get over yourself.
this shouldn't need to be stated but, it doesn't matter if "other phones" have water seals -- they aren't operating within the design and confines of this device, the iphone. obviously there will be a great many differences -- such as the haptic engine, shell, etc. the constraints of one brand aren't thusly the same for every other design.
again, why on earth would i doubt the senior apple hardware guy who actually is an engineer and actually works on this product?
i guess i'm struggling to understand your point...you think there should be a 10% bigger bettery from the space saved. but instead we got better cameras, a better image processor, water seals, and a somewhat larger battery. and that's prompting you to complain and/or suggest people instead want just a larger battery?
Just as you should with me, you should take what the Senior Apple hardware guy has to say with a grain of salt. Water-proofing a headphone jack CAN be done. There is no question about it so already he is bending the truth or perhaps not being clear with his statements.
With regards to what I am stating is that "we got better cameras, a better image processor, water seals" not by removing the headphone jack but just through refined engineering. This is pretty obvious. The "somewhat larger battery" is due to the headphone jack being removed but it was made smaller in the iPhone 6s from the iPhone 6 due to Taptic and 3D touch. Some users don't even notice Taptic and 3D touch from their previous iPhones and don't even know it exists. They do notice battery life or headphone port being missing.
News flash: iPhone 7 removes lightning port. Sync via iCloud and use wireless charging. Greg Joswiak Apple VP says "we needed the space for the better camera/battery/slimmer design/IP69 rating".
no, he isn't. again you're not listening -- one brand's model is not another brand's model. each model has its own shell design, component layout, unique constraints, etc. you're making a false equivalency to say "well this other one has a water seal so apple is lying". that doesn't fly because one brand's phone isn't this phone. i really don't understand how you don't know that if you design for electronic devices as you say.
no, what you're claiming is not "pretty obvious". you're claiming the reason we got these new things is because of what you, a random guy on a rumors site, says rather that what the actual cheif engineer working on the device says. that's just absurd. get over yourself.
Isn't the point of commenting to share information with others? Please don't put in quotes something I have't said. Thats not cool. I did listen, so I find that offensive. It was not me complaining of not understanding of what statements you had written, it was yourself.
Water sealing a headphone jack it can be done and has been done by other firms. Its an isolated part and has nothing to do with "shell design, component layout". Apple have the engineering skill to be able to do it, they just chose not to include it at all. The iPhone 6S was water resistant (not officially) but not IP67 certified and the difference from an engineering standpoint of water-proofing between the headphone socket and a lightning port isn't a millions miles away. Please take a look inside an iPhone. I posted up some links before.
I am not saying the reasons they got there is different from what an Apple chief has to say. I am only speculating and adding to his statement from my experience by reading between the lines on their decision making furthering from what he is saying. The fact that rather than waste precision engineering time on something that Apple believe to be on its descendancy is something I have learnt from this comment section. If you have a valid view point, share why this isn't plausible with facts, history, articulation. Myself and others I am sure want to hear and learn.
i think it's very clear my use of in line quotes is making a summary of your absurd argument and is not a quote from your post, which i included above my own message.
but your latest is more nonsense. you cannot isolate the jack from the rest of layout. the confines of the iphone aren't the confines of a note or a galaxy. there are multiple points of egress and the goal must be completed as a whole. again -- it's not just about the water seals, its about the cameras, processor, and battery. get it thru your head or stop cherry picking.
all i hear from you is a guy who insists he knows more and better than what the actual guys in the room have said. that's nuts.
Riccio has said very clearly what we got for freeing up space. sorry it hurts some part of you that needs to believe you're being lied to or that they should have done it the way you wanted them to. again -- that's not our reality and you'll fine no solace here armchair engineering things you're not involved with.
you're making a false equivalency to say "well this other one has a water seal so apple is lying".
This is not a summary. The use of quotation is to quote someone. Not a summary.
Ok I've tried being polite. I tried my hardest to articulate clearly. When I have done so a few times, I am sure the issue isn't my communication anymore. I find it very unfair to essentially label me as stupid and arrogant. I don't see what that has to do with putting a counter point to what I am saying? I don't find it helpful and a little rude.
I am not sure you have a great understand of design & engineering or if you are just an Apple enthusiast? If the rest of the phone is waterproof, if you add a hole for where the headphone jack is, you only need to be concerned about that immediate area? Making a hole at the bottom doesn't mean water is going to pour in from the camera or the battery? If you wanted to incorporate a waterproof jack in your designs, you "could" buy an off the shelf part that is waterproof. http://www.technik.com.hk/index.php/en-GB/35mm-smd-waterproof-stereo-jack?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_color.tpl&product_id=853&category_id=38
It even has a seal. All you need to do is correctly tolerance the hole in the Alu chassis. If you want to make it smaller or change the specs to fit your design Apple could do that. Would you like me to get a tupperware box, put this waterproof headphone jack on it and take it down to 100m of water to demo that it isn't going to start leaking from the other side of the box?
Please just stop mentioning "Riccio". I heard it the 1st time. I don't understand why you don't get I am 100% NOT DISAGREEING WITH HIM. I DO NOT know more than these guys about their decisions to build the iPhone 7 but I can voice thoughts that maybe they cannot due to their secretive nature and NDAs that I do not have to worry about. Since I have some level of expertise, their is some value in those thoughts. Apple aren't going to tell you specifically why they build their tech cos it gives the competition a head start. That's fair play. Isn't this what Apple Insider's want? Inside thoughts of Apple? At least I am trying, you haven't given any insight.
Just as you should with me, you should take what the Senior Apple hardware guy has to say with a grain of salt. Water-proofing a headphone jack CAN be done. There is no question about it so already he is bending the truth or perhaps not being clear with his statements.
I don't recall ever hearing Apple say that they couldn't have added water resistance without the jack. They simply stated that the jack was a key point of ingress, and removing the jack helped the new iPhone finally meet the IP67 water resistance spec. And again, water resistance was only one of several benefits Apple says led them to decide to remove the jack.
Comments
no, what you're claiming is not "pretty obvious". you're claiming the reason we got these new things is because of what you, a random guy on a rumors site, says rather that what the actual cheif engineer working on the device says. that's just absurd. get over yourself.
Water sealing a headphone jack it can be done and has been done by other firms. Its an isolated part and has nothing to do with "shell design, component layout". Apple have the engineering skill to be able to do it, they just chose not to include it at all. The iPhone 6S was water resistant (not officially) but not IP67 certified and the difference from an engineering standpoint of water-proofing between the headphone socket and a lightning port isn't a millions miles away. Please take a look inside an iPhone. I posted up some links before.
I am not saying the reasons they got there is different from what an Apple chief has to say. I am only speculating and adding to his statement from my experience by reading between the lines on their decision making furthering from what he is saying. The fact that rather than waste precision engineering time on something that Apple believe to be on its descendancy is something I have learnt from this comment section. If you have a valid view point, share why this isn't plausible with facts, history, articulation. Myself and others I am sure want to hear and learn.
but your latest is more nonsense. you cannot isolate the jack from the rest of layout. the confines of the iphone aren't the confines of a note or a galaxy. there are multiple points of egress and the goal must be completed as a whole. again -- it's not just about the water seals, its about the cameras, processor, and battery. get it thru your head or stop cherry picking.
all i hear from you is a guy who insists he knows more and better than what the actual guys in the room have said. that's nuts.
Riccio has said very clearly what we got for freeing up space. sorry it hurts some part of you that needs to believe you're being lied to or that they should have done it the way you wanted them to. again -- that's not our reality and you'll fine no solace here armchair engineering things you're not involved with.
Ok I've tried being polite. I tried my hardest to articulate clearly. When I have done so a few times, I am sure the issue isn't my communication anymore. I find it very unfair to essentially label me as stupid and arrogant. I don't see what that has to do with putting a counter point to what I am saying? I don't find it helpful and a little rude.
I am not sure you have a great understand of design & engineering or if you are just an Apple enthusiast? If the rest of the phone is waterproof, if you add a hole for where the headphone jack is, you only need to be concerned about that immediate area? Making a hole at the bottom doesn't mean water is going to pour in from the camera or the battery? If you wanted to incorporate a waterproof jack in your designs, you "could" buy an off the shelf part that is waterproof. http://www.technik.com.hk/index.php/en-GB/35mm-smd-waterproof-stereo-jack?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_color.tpl&product_id=853&category_id=38
It even has a seal. All you need to do is correctly tolerance the hole in the Alu chassis. If you want to make it smaller or change the specs to fit your design Apple could do that. Would you like me to get a tupperware box, put this waterproof headphone jack on it and take it down to 100m of water to demo that it isn't going to start leaking from the other side of the box?
Please just stop mentioning "Riccio". I heard it the 1st time. I don't understand why you don't get I am 100% NOT DISAGREEING WITH HIM. I DO NOT know more than these guys about their decisions to build the iPhone 7 but I can voice thoughts that maybe they cannot due to their secretive nature and NDAs that I do not have to worry about. Since I have some level of expertise, their is some value in those thoughts. Apple aren't going to tell you specifically why they build their tech cos it gives the competition a head start. That's fair play. Isn't this what Apple Insider's want? Inside thoughts of Apple? At least I am trying, you haven't given any insight.
I don't recall ever hearing Apple say that they couldn't have added water resistance without the jack. They simply stated that the jack was a key point of ingress, and removing the jack helped the new iPhone finally meet the IP67 water resistance spec. And again, water resistance was only one of several benefits Apple says led them to decide to remove the jack.