New iPad Pro refresh rumors point to new 'iPad mini Pro,' True Tone across the line

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 57
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,727member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    I wonder what the iPad would be if Steve Jobs was still alive?

    I think Apple has done an absolutely amazing job with the iPhone without Jobs. Though my one criticism is they have been a bit late several times. Late with bigger phones (although this could be blamed on Jobs) and late with small bezel phablets. Of course being late is only a temporary problem with Apple.

    But IMO, the iPad has not been managed properly by Cook. I own a 3-year old iPad Air and have almost zero desire to upgrade. There simply isn't enough added value in the current lineup unless you want a much larger screen, pencil support, or heavy processing power for games. For common consumers like me, there really isn't anything that compelling to upgrade. And the scary part is I have no idea what feature would make it compelling either!

    The iPad is truly in a rut except for certain niche segments. For common folk they are fine with their 3 year old or newer iPads.
    The whole tablet market is in a rut. 
    This is true.

    But the whole smartphone market would have been in a rut without the iPhone also.

    IMO, Jobs would have found new ways to use the iPad. Right now the iPad is just a larger iPhone with just a few drawing features. 
    I think the biggest changes to help get the iPad out of a rut will probably have to come from the software / services side of the house. Hopefully, when Apple releases the next iPads next year, there will be a point release to iOS 10 that will add iPad-specific features to exploit the power of the hardware. 
  • Reply 22 of 57
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,849member

    sog35 said:
    I wonder what the iPad would be if Steve Jobs was still alive?

    I think Apple has done an absolutely amazing job with the iPhone without Jobs. Though my one criticism is they have been a bit late several times. Late with bigger phones (although this could be blamed on Jobs) and late with small bezel phablets. Of course being late is only a temporary problem with Apple.

    But IMO, the iPad has not been managed properly by Cook. I own a 3-year old iPad Air and have almost zero desire to upgrade. There simply isn't enough added value in the current lineup unless you want a much larger screen, pencil support, or heavy processing power for games. For common consumers like me, there really isn't anything that compelling to upgrade. And the scary part is I have no idea what feature would make it compelling either!

    The iPad is truly in a rut except for certain niche segments. For common folk they are fine with their 3 year old or newer iPads.
    The whole tablet market is in a rut. 
    I kinda think the tablet market is a fad...It sounded great, but in the end I think sometimes people don't know what to do with it. I fall into this category. I've tried and tried to find a reason to own an iPad and I just can't come up with one. I either use my iPhone, or one of my Macs. 

    Maybe down the road it will work out, but I just don't see the need for an iPad for me. I know there are people out there that never let it leave their hands and have all kinds of uses for it. 

    It probably doesn't help that its kinda morphed into this tablet/notebook thing thanks to PC manufactures which is also not working out very well. Plus, for those that do have them, once you buy one there really isn't a great reason to get a new one unless you just like having the latest and greatest, or have a specific use for what a new one does. 

    I don't see the iPad as ever being a huge seller. Making more models isn't going to create more sales. It hasn't yet and never will. 
  • Reply 23 of 57
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,849member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    macxpress said:
    If I were Apple I'd drop the mini and lower the price of the 9.7" iPad to the price of the mini. Then lower the price of the iPad Pro models down to the price of the 9.7" iPad. Just in time for the holidays too. Apple's doesn't need an iPad mini Pro model. There are way too many models of iPads as it is between the different screen sizes, old models, new models, Wifi models, LTE models, Pro models, capacity models, etc. Its just too much IMO. 
    whats wrong with having more choices?

    people keep grumbling there isn't a 4 inch flagship iPhone.
    Yet when Apple is rumored to make a flagship iPad mini people say its too much.

    iPad Mini - 2 models
    iPad Air - 2 models
    iPad Pro - 2 models

    Whats wrong with that? Why limit choices just to claim simplicity? Makes no sense.  Most people know what size they want. Then they choose between 2 models. Easy as pie.

    In fact I know many people who would LOVE to buy a 12.9 non-Pro version of the iPad. They don't need pencil support, smart connector, or extra speakers. They just want a larger iPad Air. Truth is Apple will release what ever models that make sense and can sell enough units. If they release a Mini Pro, then from their research they determined there is ample demand for a high powered mini iPad
    choice is good but too much choice can lead to consumer paralysis.  Considering that Tim Cook has said on more than one occasion that the iPad Pro is their vision of the future of personal computing, there's no reason to keep the non-Pro in the line-up. Just have one iPad line that has Smart Connector / Pencil support, better speakers, DCI-P3 screen
    Why? What if my grandma just wants an iPad to watch Netflix, look at pictures, and email?  Why should grandma spend $200 more for a Pro model she won't even benefit from? Having base models is super important.
    Yes, it is and if you make the regular iPads the base models (sans iPad mini) then it would work out. 
  • Reply 24 of 57
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,849member

    sog35 said:
    macxpress said:
    sog35 said:
    macxpress said:
    If I were Apple I'd drop the mini and lower the price of the 9.7" iPad to the price of the mini. Then lower the price of the iPad Pro models down to the price of the 9.7" iPad. Just in time for the holidays too. Apple's doesn't need an iPad mini Pro model. There are way too many models of iPads as it is between the different screen sizes, old models, new models, Wifi models, LTE models, Pro models, capacity models, etc. Its just too much IMO. 
    whats wrong with having more choices?

    people keep grumbling there isn't a 4 inch flagship iPhone.
    Yet when Apple is rumored to make a flagship iPad mini people say its too much.

    iPad Mini - 2 models
    iPad Air - 2 models
    iPad Pro - 2 models

    Whats wrong with that? Why limit choices just to claim simplicity? Makes no sense.  Most people know what size they want. Then they choose between 2 models. Easy as pie.

    In fact I know many people who would LOVE to buy a 12.9 non-Pro version of the iPad. They don't need pencil support, smart connector, or extra speakers. They just want a larger iPad Air. Truth is Apple will release what ever models that make sense and can sell enough units. If they release a Mini Pro, then from their research they determined there is ample demand for a high powered mini iPad
    There are more than 2 models of each kind of iPad. I don't know where you're getting this 2 models thing from. 
     
    The more choices you have, the more it confuses customers. It also makes the iPad more expensive to produce because you have to design and manufacture all of these different configurations. This goes back to the Macintosh Performa lineup back in the early to mid 90's where where were literally 100+ choices with very minor differences. Choice is good, but too much choice isn't always great. 

    Apple was better off when they had a very simplistic lineup. Now were getting into this area where its a complete mess. 


    are you seriously comparing 1990's Apple to today's Apple that sells 300,000,000 devices a year?

    You can wax poetic about the 'good old days' all you want. But Apple is a much bigger company, selling much more product, in much more countries, to many more segments of the population. You can't compare 1990's Apple that sold 1 million computers to 2016 Apple that will sell 300,000,000.

    Making multiple models was a cost consideration in the 90's. But not today. Apple sells so many units (that also share components) that having 10+ iPad models is not a problem at all.

    So you literally think Apple would be more successful if they only made one model of iPhone and iPad? Really?
    I was simply giving an example of what the iPad lineup is turning into. I don't really care about Apple's "good ole days". I don't live in the past. 

    I also never said Apple should make 1 model of iPad. Thats not what I said at all. Apparently you didn't actually read my posts. 
  • Reply 25 of 57
    macxpress said:
    If I were Apple I'd drop the mini and lower the price of the 9.7" iPad to the price of the mini. Then lower the price of the iPad Pro models down to the price of the 9.7" iPad. Just in time for the holidays too. Apple's doesn't need an iPad mini Pro model. There are way too many models of iPads as it is between the different screen sizes, old models, new models, Wifi models, LTE models, Pro models, capacity models, etc. Its just too much IMO. 
    The Mini is a perfect size for some people, especially children.  Both my kids have Minis and the form factor is perfect.
    tmaynolamacguy
  • Reply 26 of 57
    macxpress said:
    I just don't see the iPad mini has being the majority of iPad purchases. Maybe you use one yes, but I'd like to think the mini purchases aren't anywhere close to regular iPads. 
    According to surveys, you're wrong. Anecdotally, I probably see two to three times more Minis being used in cafes, airplanes and trains.

    I don't understand this bifurcation of iPads into regulars and Pros at all. The better screen will trickle down to regular iPads someday, that's inevitable. Are they really going to restrict Pencil functionality to "Pro" models? Is an artistically inclined 8-year-old a professional?

    Regardless, I can't wait to get my paws on a Mini + Pencil.
    edited October 2016 williamlondon
  • Reply 27 of 57
    mrboba1mrboba1 Posts: 276member
    macxpress said:
    If I were Apple I'd drop the mini and lower the price of the 9.7" iPad to the price of the mini. Then lower the price of the iPad Pro models down to the price of the 9.7" iPad. Just in time for the holidays too. Apple's doesn't need an iPad mini Pro model. There are way too many models of iPads as it is between the different screen sizes, old models, new models, Wifi models, LTE models, Pro models, capacity models, etc. Its just too much IMO. 
    There aren't many models of iPads, there are many SKUs, which consumers don't care about.

    Like others have said, the decision is easy (easier than laptop decision right now even):
    People already know if they need LTE or not.
    So questions are easy - how big, pro or not, how much storage?
    The Pro question will be the hardest one to decide.
    Here's your price. Then, you as consumer decide whether or not you can afford that and adjust from there.

    It's incredibly simply for the consumer, no matter how the company has to decide which SKU meets their needs.
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 28 of 57
    mrboba1mrboba1 Posts: 276member
    Eric_WVGG said:

    I don't understand this bifurcation of iPads into regulars and Pros at all. The better screen will trickle down to regular iPads someday, that's inevitable. Are they really going to restrict Pencil functionality to "Pro" models? Is an artistically inclined 8-year-old a professional?

    Regardless, I can't wait to get my paws on a Mini + Pencil.
    The screen's not the difference, it's the processor. (and the cameras, I suppose)
  • Reply 29 of 57
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,727member
    mrboba1 said:
    Eric_WVGG said:

    I don't understand this bifurcation of iPads into regulars and Pros at all. The better screen will trickle down to regular iPads someday, that's inevitable. Are they really going to restrict Pencil functionality to "Pro" models? Is an artistically inclined 8-year-old a professional?

    Regardless, I can't wait to get my paws on a Mini + Pencil.
    The screen's not the difference, it's the processor. (and the cameras, I suppose)
    Having a Pro and non-Pro iPad line is redundant. Eventually all iPads will become Pros. So your decision will be:

    1. small, medium, large
    2. Cellular / Wi-Fi only
    3. Storage size
    4. Pencil or no Pencil
    williamlondonentropys
  • Reply 30 of 57
    I have heard that the 4G of RAM in the 12 inch iPad Pro makes a difference, over the 3G in the smaller one.  Since I spent about $800 on my now-sorta-sluggish iPad I'm taking some care on getting the right replacement.  Will be watching the Spring iPads with great interest (but don't need to hear more speculaiton about it)
  • Reply 31 of 57
    jdgazjdgaz Posts: 405member
    Mini Pro sounds like a perfect point of sale terminal.
    williamlondonpscooter63entropysmattinoz
  • Reply 32 of 57
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,727member
    I have heard that the 4G of RAM in the 12 inch iPad Pro makes a difference, over the 3G in the smaller one.  Since I spent about $800 on my now-sorta-sluggish iPad I'm taking some care on getting the right replacement.  Will be watching the Spring iPads with great interest (but don't need to hear more speculaiton about it)
    The smaller 9.7" iPP has 2GB of RAM, not 3GB.  
  • Reply 33 of 57
    iPad line is really getting messy. Apple needs to stop designing products around price points and margins. They need to be all about simplicty again.
    I disagree. I like having more choices. It makes it more likely that a buyer will find a machine that fits their particular wants and needs.
    nolamacguypscooter63
  • Reply 34 of 57
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,541member
    macxpress said:

    sog35 said:
    I wonder what the iPad would be if Steve Jobs was still alive?

    I think Apple has done an absolutely amazing job with the iPhone without Jobs. Though my one criticism is they have been a bit late several times. Late with bigger phones (although this could be blamed on Jobs) and late with small bezel phablets. Of course being late is only a temporary problem with Apple.

    But IMO, the iPad has not been managed properly by Cook. I own a 3-year old iPad Air and have almost zero desire to upgrade. There simply isn't enough added value in the current lineup unless you want a much larger screen, pencil support, or heavy processing power for games. For common consumers like me, there really isn't anything that compelling to upgrade. And the scary part is I have no idea what feature would make it compelling either!

    The iPad is truly in a rut except for certain niche segments. For common folk they are fine with their 3 year old or newer iPads.
    The whole tablet market is in a rut. 
    I kinda think the tablet market is a fad...It sounded great, but in the end I think sometimes people don't know what to do with it. I fall into this category. I've tried and tried to find a reason to own an iPad and I just can't come up with one. I either use my iPhone, or one of my Macs. 

    Maybe down the road it will work out, but I just don't see the need for an iPad for me. I know there are people out there that never let it leave their hands and have all kinds of uses for it. 

    It probably doesn't help that its kinda morphed into this tablet/notebook thing thanks to PC manufactures which is also not working out very well. Plus, for those that do have them, once you buy one there really isn't a great reason to get a new one unless you just like having the latest and greatest, or have a specific use for what a new one does. 

    I don't see the iPad as ever being a huge seller. Making more models isn't going to create more sales. It hasn't yet and never will. 
    I don't think it is a fad like netbooks were, or those flip video recorders, etc.  I don't think there is any doubt that larger phones has affected the use and use cases.  Apple is certainly looking to fine tune its mission, both for consumer and business.

    Personally I hope it is not a fad, as I use mine every day for consumer use cases, where it is better than a laptop or an iPhone:
    - Website browsing
    - Videos & movies (our TV provider has a very good app for live streaming, so it is a take anywhere in the house kind of TV).
    - Newspapers and magazines
    - Books (iBooks or Kindle)
    - Photo viewer
    nolamacguypscooter63
  • Reply 35 of 57
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,727member
    brucemc said:
    macxpress said:

    sog35 said:
    I wonder what the iPad would be if Steve Jobs was still alive?

    I think Apple has done an absolutely amazing job with the iPhone without Jobs. Though my one criticism is they have been a bit late several times. Late with bigger phones (although this could be blamed on Jobs) and late with small bezel phablets. Of course being late is only a temporary problem with Apple.

    But IMO, the iPad has not been managed properly by Cook. I own a 3-year old iPad Air and have almost zero desire to upgrade. There simply isn't enough added value in the current lineup unless you want a much larger screen, pencil support, or heavy processing power for games. For common consumers like me, there really isn't anything that compelling to upgrade. And the scary part is I have no idea what feature would make it compelling either!

    The iPad is truly in a rut except for certain niche segments. For common folk they are fine with their 3 year old or newer iPads.
    The whole tablet market is in a rut. 
    I kinda think the tablet market is a fad...It sounded great, but in the end I think sometimes people don't know what to do with it. I fall into this category. I've tried and tried to find a reason to own an iPad and I just can't come up with one. I either use my iPhone, or one of my Macs. 

    Maybe down the road it will work out, but I just don't see the need for an iPad for me. I know there are people out there that never let it leave their hands and have all kinds of uses for it. 

    It probably doesn't help that its kinda morphed into this tablet/notebook thing thanks to PC manufactures which is also not working out very well. Plus, for those that do have them, once you buy one there really isn't a great reason to get a new one unless you just like having the latest and greatest, or have a specific use for what a new one does. 

    I don't see the iPad as ever being a huge seller. Making more models isn't going to create more sales. It hasn't yet and never will. 
    I don't think it is a fad like netbooks were, or those flip video recorders, etc.  I don't think there is any doubt that larger phones has affected the use and use cases.  Apple is certainly looking to fine tune its mission, both for consumer and business.

    Personally I hope it is not a fad, as I use mine every day for consumer use cases, where it is better than a laptop or an iPhone:
    - Website browsing
    - Videos & movies (our TV provider has a very good app for live streaming, so it is a take anywhere in the house kind of TV).
    - Newspapers and magazines
    - Books (iBooks or Kindle)
    - Photo viewer
    Essentially, the same areas Steve Jobs mentioned when he launched the first iPad in 2010
  • Reply 36 of 57

    sog35 said:
    macxpress said:
    If I were Apple I'd drop the mini and lower the price of the 9.7" iPad to the price of the mini. Then lower the price of the iPad Pro models down to the price of the 9.7" iPad. Just in time for the holidays too. Apple's doesn't need an iPad mini Pro model. There are way too many models of iPads as it is between the different screen sizes, old models, new models, Wifi models, LTE models, Pro models, capacity models, etc. Its just too much IMO. 
    whats wrong with having more choices?

    people keep grumbling there isn't a 4 inch flagship iPhone.
    Yet when Apple is rumored to make a flagship iPad mini people say its too much.

    iPad Mini - 2 models
    iPad Air - 2 models
    iPad Pro - 2 models

    Whats wrong with that? Why limit choices just to claim simplicity? Makes no sense.  Most people know what size they want. Then they choose between 2 models. Easy as pie.

    In fact I know many people who would LOVE to buy a 12.9 non-Pro version of the iPad. They don't need pencil support, smart connector, or extra speakers. They just want a larger iPad Air. Truth is Apple will release what ever models that make sense and can sell enough units. If they release a Mini Pro, then from their research they determined there is ample demand for a high powered mini iPad
    choice is good but too much choice can lead to consumer paralysis.  Considering that Tim Cook has said on more than one occasion that the iPad Pro is their vision of the future of personal computing, there's no reason to keep the non-Pro in the line-up. Just have one iPad line that has Smart Connector / Pencil support, better speakers, DCI-P3 screen
    That assumes everyone will pay premium prices for top-of-the-line products.

    My 7-year-old grandson has a Samsung tablet his parents bought him because it was inexpensive and his needs are very, very basic. My wife and I wanted to get him an Apple product not because he needed a better tablet, but just so he could enjoy some of the ecosystem benefits like iMessage and Home Sharing. Had Apple not offered the old iPad mini 2 we wouldn't have bought an iPad at all. As it was, that three-year-old model still cost three times as much as a current Samsung.

    I'm not saying the Samsung and Apple are equivalent, just that there are use cases in which cheap-and-functional is good enough. Having less-expensive models in the lineup attracts users who otherwise may not consider Apple at al.
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 37 of 57
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    I use my iPad mini everyday. My only complaint is websites that disallow zooming. My vision is not what it used to be and it is a nuisance to go find my reading glasses just to briefly view a website while watching TV. I wish iOS could override that feature.
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 38 of 57
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    If I were Apple I'd drop the mini and lower the price of the 9.7" iPad to the price of the mini. Then lower the price of the iPad Pro models down to the price of the 9.7" iPad. Just in time for the holidays too. Apple's doesn't need an iPad mini Pro model. There are way too many models of iPads as it is between the different screen sizes, old models, new models, Wifi models, LTE models, Pro models, capacity models, etc. Its just too much IMO. 
    eh not really. pick the size, then pick newer/better/pricier, or get older/cheaper. 

    i use a mini every day. 
    I just don't see the iPad mini has being the majority of iPad purchases. Maybe you use one yes, but I'd like to think the mini purchases aren't anywhere close to regular iPads. 
    i didn't assert that was the case. my point was that they offer value, and do not make the line too complicated as suggested. i'm not sure who feels the negative pressure suggested for having some options, including size. 
  • Reply 39 of 57
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member

    macxpress said:
    sog35 said:
    macxpress said:
    If I were Apple I'd drop the mini and lower the price of the 9.7" iPad to the price of the mini. Then lower the price of the iPad Pro models down to the price of the 9.7" iPad. Just in time for the holidays too. Apple's doesn't need an iPad mini Pro model. There are way too many models of iPads as it is between the different screen sizes, old models, new models, Wifi models, LTE models, Pro models, capacity models, etc. Its just too much IMO. 
    whats wrong with having more choices?

    people keep grumbling there isn't a 4 inch flagship iPhone.
    Yet when Apple is rumored to make a flagship iPad mini people say its too much.

    iPad Mini - 2 models
    iPad Air - 2 models
    iPad Pro - 2 models

    Whats wrong with that? Why limit choices just to claim simplicity? Makes no sense.  Most people know what size they want. Then they choose between 2 models. Easy as pie.

    In fact I know many people who would LOVE to buy a 12.9 non-Pro version of the iPad. They don't need pencil support, smart connector, or extra speakers. They just want a larger iPad Air. Truth is Apple will release what ever models that make sense and can sell enough units. If they release a Mini Pro, then from their research they determined there is ample demand for a high powered mini iPad
    There are more than 2 models of each kind of iPad. I don't know where you're getting this 2 models thing from. 
     
    The more choices you have, the more it confuses customers. It also makes the iPad more expensive to produce because you have to design and manufacture all of these different configurations. This goes back to the Macintosh Performa lineup back in the early to mid 90's where where were literally 100+ choices with very minor differences. Choice is good, but too much choice isn't always great. 

    Apple was better off when they had a very simplistic lineup. Now were getting into this area where its a complete mess. 
    not really. wifi vs cellular is an option (akin to different SKUs for color, another option) and unless you provide links that are convincing of the idea that it's harming sales i write that off as "concerned" nonsense. 

    further, it's 2016 and not apple in 1997. there's a case to be made for added models in a successful, mature product line unlike the near-death struggling apple line of 1997:

    https://techpinions.com/why-2016-isnt-1997-for-apple/44434
    edited October 2016 williamlondonpscooter63
  • Reply 40 of 57
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member

    iPad Pro still the best, most useful Apple product I've ever owned, other than my Macs. Speaking of which, turns out macOS Sierra has caused my iMac to slow down tremendously since I installed it. Startup time has increased to nearly 10 minutes now, which is completely insane.
    there is something wrong with your computer. 
    williamlondonentropys
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