Apple Mac shipments slide 13% in Q3 amid PC market slowdown

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  • Reply 41 of 70
    19831983 Posts: 1,225member
    I love my Mac (more than my iPhone) but this isn't surprising...while the quality and reliability of the Mac is excellent, they're very expensive and underspecified for what they currently offer. I don't think their relative high price would be as much of an issue if they had the specification to match and had regular updates. Instead we get the feeling that Apple is neglecting it. The rumoured update (to the rMBP line anyway) is encouraging, but then how much more time will pass before Apple updates the line again? I know the Mac is not their bread and butter anymore, but its because of all these things that Apple's share in the PC market has continued to drop much more than other vendors...and I don't think they care.
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 42 of 70
    sourdough said:
    Or more likely, Apple isn't listening to what their loyal Mac users want.  More than just a refresh.  Like a Mac Mini that is configurable.  Or an iMac that is configurable.  Or a Mac Pro that is configurable without lots of external cables.  And computers which have value other than thin-ness.  Or OS upgrades that don't blow up the user interface and well-established functionality with every upgrade.  And their loyal users are waiting to spend their money on something they want or are spending it elsewhere.  But then again maybe doesn't care about their loyal users.  And this is what happens.
    or maybe youre full of shit -- the possibilities are endless!
    Attacking users personally just isn't cool nolamacguy. Your comment was pretty rude, unnecessary, inappropriate & unappreciated by others here.

    Please bro, tone it down a notch, refrain from personal attacks & allow others to articulate their views.
  • Reply 43 of 70
    Yeah this not surprising... Apple need a new CEO, every line has been neglected except the iwatch and iphone.  It is time Apple supported its loyal user base.  I for one want to upgrade my airport express to AC, I still use the optical port, so I can stream music from my ipad, but I cant use the apple tv as it no longer has the optical port, but would like to move to Wifi AC. I also prefer the older plug style, rather than trying to be a small mac mini.   How about a new design for the imac, or at least make SSD standard for the high prices.  Apple hasnt really updated anything for a long time...what are they doing?

    Neglecting the HOME USER.

    I would also look at a mac pro, but want something like the original where I can put drives in, how about Thunderbolt 3 and usb 3.1 as well. NEGLECTING THE PRO USERS

    IPODS---yes I use it for the gym, but my sweat killed the nano, I liked the small size, particularly the 6th gen,and the fact it can clip to my pants, bluetooth is not loud enough and my sen ppx210bt battery has run out, it costs $80 to replace the battery (the headphones cost $200), my momentums sound better and were cheaper. how about, bringing the 6th gen style back out with wifi so I can sync with itunes over wifi, and maybe have a spotify app, so you can download spotify tracks. NEGLECTING THE FITNESS CROWD

    Apple is abandoning everyone who helped bring its cred to the level where it became popular. It will have nothing left. 


  • Reply 44 of 70
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,465member
    jkichline said:
    altivec88 said:
    I know I'm a fan boy but I guess I'm nothing compared to some of you.  I don't understand how anyone can be defending Apple in regards to the effort they are putting into their computers.   Did you guys just buy a computer and are not in the market for one or something?   Would you honestly buy a new MacPro right now?  Do you guys even know what the competitors are offering for what Apple is asking for a MacPro?  I get that we all love Apple but for pete's sake, can't you take your blinders off for a second and see Apple is neglecting Mac's or at the very least can you cut some slack to those that have.  Sheesh..
    It's pretty simple.... nothing else runs macOS which is leap years better than Windows. Plus, Macs work great and have longer life and generally outperform machines of similar specs. I'm happy to wait until the next MBP is announced and I can upgrade my four year old MBPr.
    macOS is not always better than Windows.  Maybe is better for your workflow, but that doesn't means is better in absolute terms. 

    And if you compare a Mac to a high quality PC from Lenovo, HP and Dell, you'll see they perform and endure as good as Macs.  As an example, the Lenovo X1 Carbon far better than a MacBook Air / MacBook Pro 13, same as the HP Z Workstation, that is in another league over the MacPro.  Some of my customer have these PC's running without issues for 6/7 years.  Maybe you should expand from what Apple offers, and maybe you'll see that Apple isn't the best hardware available right now. 
  • Reply 45 of 70
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,465member
    jkichline said:
    MacBAir said:
    MacBAir said:
    Who in their right mind you:
    • Buy a mac with a TN panel;
    • Buy a Mac without a SSD;
    • Buy a Mac that has components from 2 or 3 years ago?
    That basically addresses all Macs on the market besides the rMB and the upgraded riMacs, that are expensive. Clearly this is the cause: Most Macs are crap.

    However, Apple can easily mac the best personal computers. Are they waiting for something in particular? They have to be waiting for some special component, otherwise there's no excuse at all, besides milking uninformed users. 
    almost five million Macs were sold last quarter & the quarter before that, so somebody's buying them.
    And who is buying them? Informed users? Professionals? No. Would you buy a Mac like that crap, at that price? TN panels? Mechanical hard drives? 128GB of storage? Outdated internals? Yeah.

    It's the people that would buy 16 GB iPhones until few months ago.

    At this point, what is making their Mac sales not falling that fast is the same reason that make Blackberry and Nokia grow after the iPhone, or the S4 after the S3. Inertia of many factors, like mindshare, being locked in, etc. Eventually it will kick in, If Apple doesn't revamp the line-up quickly and cleans that garbage products. Can you guys imagine Dell selling a TN panel and outdated components at more than one thousand dollars? What scammy company would do that?
    The average user has no clue what a TN panel is. You really got a bug up your butt. Just buy a PC and move along. The rest of us want a machine that works and doesn't run Windows. The MBA will likely die off soon and I expect Apple to reenvision their lineup with more affordable and better options at the low end and high performance MBP at the upper end. Give them about a month. They haven't been doing nothing... but they also don't want to invest in incremental updates when something bigger is coming.

    Even though that average user don't know what TN panel is, they would benefit from having a better screen, don't you think?

    And now that you mention Windows, here is one of the benefits of running it, you aren't tied to a single hardware vendor.  In the past, my customers were HP/Dell.  Both went down in customer services and hardware quality, and we moved to Lenovo.  And since still Windows, applications and workflow still as always.  With Apple there is no competition, so they can decide when to upgrade users, and customers have no option but to wait. 
    singularity
  • Reply 46 of 70
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,465member
    evilution said:
    altivec88 said:
    Would you honestly buy a new MacPro right now?  Do you guys even know what the competitors are offering for what Apple is asking for a MacPro?  I get that we all love Apple but for pete's sake, can't you take your blinders off for a second and see Apple is neglecting Mac's or at the very least can you cut some slack to those that have.  Sheesh..
    I am in the market for a Mac Pro to replace my old 27" iMac.
    I know exactly what the competition are offering for the same money, an incredibly fast box that still runs windows built by one of the big companies that has next to nothing in customer service and next to nothing in resale value.

    I'm not playing games on the Mac and I don't need insane processing power for rendering. I just want an up to date Mac Pro that's fast enough and reliable enough to last me 7 years (ish) and not feel slow after all that time. Easy to use, does what I tell it, doesn't crash, doesn't require a load of setup whenever you want to do anything and very importantly, when I upgrade next time, this one will still be worth something.

    Maybe you should see HP Z Workstation or Lenovo P series.  Both are far better than the MacPro.  And Lenovo support for corporate devices is very good, and P-series includes 3YR on site warranty. 
  • Reply 47 of 70
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    All I know is my iMac 14,2 (late 2013) is still a screamer and runs macOS Sierra quite well. I have no complaints about its performance so a newer, faster iMac just for the sake of newer, faster is of little interest to me.
    rob55
  • Reply 48 of 70
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    altivec88 said:
    I know Apple missed two upgrade cycles from our company.  We typically upgrade our MacPro's every two years.  We skipped the 2013 MacPro's because there was no improvement in cpu over our now 6 year old MacPro's.   We keep waiting....  If MacPro's are not part if this "stay tuned" refresh, Dell or HP will get our market share numbers for next quarter.  

    I just wonder if this amazing pipeline Tim keeps talking about is clogged or something.   Seems like every other company is nimble enough to keep their computers refreshed, but the thousand day old MacPro that innovates out of Phil's ass is 2 generations behind on cpu, 3 generations behind on gpu, ports are outdated, low on ram and storage and is still priced as if it were new tech.   Man, I wonder why nobody is buying them.  As the article states, computer sales are trending away from consumers and more towards businesses and creative pros.  It would be nice if they showed some effort towards this market, otherwise don't be surprised to see their computer share continue to slide.
    "As the article states, computer sales are trending away from consumers and more towards businesses and creative pros."

    So what you're saying is the PC (and Mac) market is witnessing declining market share due to negative sales growth and is thus being relegated to being a specialized device.  If so, why participate in such a market?
    Ah, you got the definition of computer backwards.
  • Reply 49 of 70
    Waiting on apple to refresh their rMacbook pro line so I can upgrade my 2012model! no point on upgrading to an almost 2 year old rMacbook pro when you know a refresh is imminent! No wonder why sales numbers are down!

    Partly its Intel to blame thought with a slow processor upgrades. Eagerly waiting on apple to dish intel in favor of the own processors! Recent A series processors have shown that apple is aggressively improving their processor line and its very close to the performance of desktop class processors! I am sure deep into their labs they do have A series processors that beat every single desktop processor out there running on prototype macbooks. They have done this before (move prom power pc to inter) so I am sure they know how to do it best! Take your time apple!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 70
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    davidw said:
    MacBAir said:
    Who in their right mind you:
    • Buy a mac with a TN panel;
    • Buy a Mac without a SSD;
    • Buy a Mac that has components from 2 or 3 years ago?
    That basically addresses all Macs on the market besides the rMB and the upgraded riMacs, that are expensive. Clearly this is the cause: Most Macs are crap.

    However, Apple can easily mac the best personal computers. Are they waiting for something in particular? They have to be waiting for some special component, otherwise there's no excuse at all, besides milking uninformed users. 


    You are clueless. Really clueless. The vast majority of PC's sold are no better than the Macs that Apple sells. Abet at a lower price. But that lower price comes at a cost of build quality, less installed software and higher total cost of ownership (TCO) as it must be replaced more often. Are you so clueless that you actually think the all the PC's being sold are better specced than a Mac? The average selling price of a Mac is $1300. The average selling price of a PC is $700. Walmart probably sells more cheap ass  $499 laptops than Apple do with their Macbook and Macbook Pro line. A 4 year old Mac will still run El Capitan and most likely the next OSX, Sierra. I'm running Yosemite on an eight year old, 2008, 24" C2D iMac. It's the last OSX upgrade for it, but that's not a problem, with what I need a computer for. What people like you seem to forget is the support Apple will supply to even an 7 year old Mac, when they come out with new OSX's. So the vast majority of PC buyers are not buying PC's with all those features that you like to cite, that is lacking in a new Mac.

    You also have to remember that the upgrade cycle for Mac users is longer than for PC users. Fours years is not out of ordinary. And since a lot, if not most, of the Macs sold are sold to people that already own a Mac, Apple don't have to come out with the highest specced Mac every year. There is just not enough Mac users or PC switchers to justify that. Or do you think that if Apple came out with the best personal computer, spec wise, that a majority of PC users would all of a sudden switch to Macs. Windows users are is no different than Android users in that not even the best computer on OSX (or best phone on iOS) will ever convince the majority of Windows (or Android users) to ever switch. Unlike PC's makers, Apple can not rely on low margins and high sales when it comes to selling their Mac products at a profit.  Apple do not have the scale of economics with their Macs, like they do with their iDevices, to help drive the cost down. 

    Microsoft could careless about supporting a PC that is more than a few years old. And PC manufactures wants to sell new PC's, not support old ones. Even if they're only 2 years old. What PC users are probably doing the past year is replacing their PC that came with the worse Windows OS ever made, Windows 8. Since the PC only cost them an average of $699 or less to begin with and most of them likely won't run Windows 10, with our running into problems with drivers, they rather buy another new cheap ass PC with Windows 10 installed. (PC users with Windows 7 will hang on to what will probably be considered the best Windows OS Microsoft ever made.) For the majority, the PC upgrade cycle is no longer driven by the need for new hardware, it's driven by a new version of Windows. Even a 4 year old PC will do for the majority of computer users, if it can be upgraded to a newer Windows 10. And that's a big if. This is why there's an up tick in PC purchases over the year. But by most consensus, it's no where near as large as they would liked to have seen, with a new version of Windows out.    
    Apple can easily use its economics of scale and define a new ARM PC standard, but instead they do a Bubka.
  • Reply 51 of 70
    rob55rob55 Posts: 1,291member
    lkrupp said:
    All I know is my iMac 14,2 (late 2013) is still a screamer and runs macOS Sierra quite well. I have no complaints about its performance so a newer, faster iMac just for the sake of newer, faster is of little interest to me.
    Agreed. I, too, have experienced no appreciable loss of performance on my 27" iMac (13,2 Late 2012). Likewise, my 15" rMBP (11,3 Late 2013), seems as fast as the day I bought it. Meanwhile, I recently received a fairly nicely equipped brand-new 15.4" Acer laptop at work, and it feels nowhere near as fast as my rMBP despite having similar specs as my rMBP (i7 processor, similar clock speed, 16GB RAM, SSD). Must be Windows.
  • Reply 52 of 70
    lkrupp said:
    All I know is my iMac 14,2 (late 2013) is still a screamer and runs macOS Sierra quite well. I have no complaints about its performance so a newer, faster iMac just for the sake of newer, faster is of little interest to me.
    My 2011 MBAir is also a fantastic, well built and worth it machine that was worth every penny.

    Any new riMac with an SSD is also best in class, and even the outdated rMBP 13", if fitted with a proper sized SSD, is also a great value, today.

    It doesn't change the fact that 9 out of 10 Mac sales today are about extremely compromised machines to uninformed users. My TN screen was almost a dealbreaker for me in 2011. One year later we could have computers with better screens on 199$ Chromebooks. Even riMacs come standard without SSDs. The nMP is an outdated joke. What about the mini? Garbage, after the last update.

    Some of you guys seem so emotionally attached that you can't see the obvious. Let me tell you what is the real problem:

    - Apple can easily make the best computers on the planet. They might still even do it, if you dig deep and dodge the pathetic money-grabbing attempts. When I bough my machine and earlier, if anyone wanted a Mac, we could say: Buy the one you want. They were all great machines with strong points that added a lot of value. In 2011, the Air came with a standard SSD, great ULV processor and best in class battery life. That was good enough to offset the crappy screen, in 2011, also because having that screen was crucial for great battery life.

    These days, you can't recommend almost any single mac to anyone. Almost all of their offerings are garbage. With less money, you can buy a smaller computer than the air, with a screen that is the same size and better on every single metric, faster on any single task, 40 to 50% better battery life, better materials and superior build quality and so on. That just wasn't possible. The Air running a better OS is in no way an excuse for Apple to sell garbage products.
  • Reply 53 of 70
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    This article is incomplete.  It made no mention of Chromebook sales.  Marketwatch news said Chromebooks destroyed Apple in back-to-school shopping. 
  • Reply 54 of 70
    rob55rob55 Posts: 1,291member
    MacBAir said:
    lkrupp said:
    All I know is my iMac 14,2 (late 2013) is still a screamer and runs macOS Sierra quite well. I have no complaints about its performance so a newer, faster iMac just for the sake of newer, faster is of little interest to me.
    These days, you can't recommend almost any single mac to anyone. Almost all of their offerings are garbage. 
    That's quite the blanket statement there. In case you missed my earlier post, my nearly 3-year-old rMBP runs circles around my brand-new Acer laptop despite the Mac having "outdated" specs. Of course, that's only my own personal experience, others' mileage may vary. Regardless, it's far from what I would refer to as "garbage". My Acer fits that definition much better than any Mac does, despite having newer and better specs.

    Hey, I don't agree with everything Apple does, but if you haven't figured it out yet, they're not in the business of winning any specs wars with their Macs. They build solid, reliable machines that last. A friend of mine is still using my old 2008 MBP, and only with the release of macOS Sierra did Apple stop supporting that machine with new OSes.


  • Reply 55 of 70
    rob55rob55 Posts: 1,291member
    tzeshan said:
    This article is incomplete.  It made no mention of Chromebook sales.  Marketwatch news said Chromebooks destroyed Apple in back-to-school shopping. 
    They may very well have. You can buy one for under $200 after all. 
  • Reply 56 of 70
    ben20ben20 Posts: 126member
    Apple need to update the Macs - all of them. How many people are desperately waiting for a new Macbook Pro and why would you anybody the old model now ? Or pay 2.000.- and get a iMac with Fusion instead of a SSD ?
  • Reply 57 of 70
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    MacBAir said:
    lkrupp said:
    All I know is my iMac 14,2 (late 2013) is still a screamer and runs macOS Sierra quite well. I have no complaints about its performance so a newer, faster iMac just for the sake of newer, faster is of little interest to me.
    My 2011 MBAir is also a fantastic, well built and worth it machine that was worth every penny.

    Any new riMac with an SSD is also best in class, and even the outdated rMBP 13", if fitted with a proper sized SSD, is also a great value, today.

    It doesn't change the fact that 9 out of 10 Mac sales today are about extremely compromised machines to uninformed users. My TN screen was almost a dealbreaker for me in 2011. One year later we could have computers with better screens on 199$ Chromebooks. Even riMacs come standard without SSDs. The nMP is an outdated joke. What about the mini? Garbage, after the last update.

    Some of you guys seem so emotionally attached that you can't see the obvious. Let me tell you what is the real problem:

    - Apple can easily make the best computers on the planet. They might still even do it, if you dig deep and dodge the pathetic money-grabbing attempts. When I bough my machine and earlier, if anyone wanted a Mac, we could say: Buy the one you want. They were all great machines with strong points that added a lot of value. In 2011, the Air came with a standard SSD, great ULV processor and best in class battery life. That was good enough to offset the crappy screen, in 2011, also because having that screen was crucial for great battery life.

    These days, you can't recommend almost any single mac to anyone. Almost all of their offerings are garbage. With less money, you can buy a smaller computer than the air, with a screen that is the same size and better on every single metric, faster on any single task, 40 to 50% better battery life, better materials and superior build quality and so on. That just wasn't possible. The Air running a better OS is in no way an excuse for Apple to sell garbage products.
    You are the one who is arguing from emotion rather than reason. We're all very familiar with the "Apple is greedy/money-grubbing/ taking their users for granted" etc. point of view. It's an emotional mindset, assuming you're sincere. Look up the word "invidious" — that's you, making unjust, willfully poisonous judgments.

    Do you seriously think that Apple hasn't calculated very carefully how they are going to apportion their LIMITED engineering/design/production/component supply resources on any of their product lines?

    People like you who have no engineering or production experience in the US think it's so easy to slap in a new display technology in the Air, for example. Have you imagined the cost of redesigning the entire product — Apple style, not Asian PC style — taking the laptop team off the new generation MacBook juggling Intel/AMD/Nvidia etc. parameters in concert with the on and offshore component manufacturers — and moving them over to the dying Air platform just to update the TN display?

    Apple does not have the luxury, the bottomless pool of unquestioning engineers that the Chinese or Korean PC pushers have, to be blowing resources on the Air. Nor are they going to do interim updates with Intel's interim processors. Or conventional LCD IPS panels when IGZO-backed panels are on the way.

    You're either being grossly invidious in your judgments, or you're being technologically ignorant, or you're just trolling. I'm leaning toward the latter, as I watch you twist and turn on this topic — over three threads so far. 
    edited October 2016 canukstormrob55fastasleep
  • Reply 58 of 70
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,732member
    djmpcs said:
    I am a lifelong Mac fan so this is hard to state but it t is clearly obvious Apple are not in the computer business anymore.  Tablets, mobile phones or services yes. Laptops/desktops definitely not.  Decline with market trends...... bullshit. Decline because most Macs house obsolete components at top dollar prices.  What idiot would buy one of those. Currently have a tetina MacBook because it is the only relatively up to date Macintosh. If I wanted a powerful laptop or workstation I would have to buy a current Dell, HP or Lenovo then hackintosh MacOS onto it! Very sad Apple very sad indeed. And please don't say new MBP's are coming, their time between updates was disgusting for a company who claims to be in the business of management facturing quality computers.
    iPads & iPhones are computers too. They just may not be the type that you prefer. The average consumer probably does much more with their smartphone today compared to what they were doing with their home PC.
  • Reply 59 of 70
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,732member
    knowitall said:
    davidw said:
    MacBAir said:
    Who in their right mind you:
    • Buy a mac with a TN panel;
    • Buy a Mac without a SSD;
    • Buy a Mac that has components from 2 or 3 years ago?
    That basically addresses all Macs on the market besides the rMB and the upgraded riMacs, that are expensive. Clearly this is the cause: Most Macs are crap.

    However, Apple can easily mac the best personal computers. Are they waiting for something in particular? They have to be waiting for some special component, otherwise there's no excuse at all, besides milking uninformed users. 


    You are clueless. Really clueless. The vast majority of PC's sold are no better than the Macs that Apple sells. Abet at a lower price. But that lower price comes at a cost of build quality, less installed software and higher total cost of ownership (TCO) as it must be replaced more often. Are you so clueless that you actually think the all the PC's being sold are better specced than a Mac? The average selling price of a Mac is $1300. The average selling price of a PC is $700. Walmart probably sells more cheap ass  $499 laptops than Apple do with their Macbook and Macbook Pro line. A 4 year old Mac will still run El Capitan and most likely the next OSX, Sierra. I'm running Yosemite on an eight year old, 2008, 24" C2D iMac. It's the last OSX upgrade for it, but that's not a problem, with what I need a computer for. What people like you seem to forget is the support Apple will supply to even an 7 year old Mac, when they come out with new OSX's. So the vast majority of PC buyers are not buying PC's with all those features that you like to cite, that is lacking in a new Mac.

    You also have to remember that the upgrade cycle for Mac users is longer than for PC users. Fours years is not out of ordinary. And since a lot, if not most, of the Macs sold are sold to people that already own a Mac, Apple don't have to come out with the highest specced Mac every year. There is just not enough Mac users or PC switchers to justify that. Or do you think that if Apple came out with the best personal computer, spec wise, that a majority of PC users would all of a sudden switch to Macs. Windows users are is no different than Android users in that not even the best computer on OSX (or best phone on iOS) will ever convince the majority of Windows (or Android users) to ever switch. Unlike PC's makers, Apple can not rely on low margins and high sales when it comes to selling their Mac products at a profit.  Apple do not have the scale of economics with their Macs, like they do with their iDevices, to help drive the cost down. 

    Microsoft could careless about supporting a PC that is more than a few years old. And PC manufactures wants to sell new PC's, not support old ones. Even if they're only 2 years old. What PC users are probably doing the past year is replacing their PC that came with the worse Windows OS ever made, Windows 8. Since the PC only cost them an average of $699 or less to begin with and most of them likely won't run Windows 10, with our running into problems with drivers, they rather buy another new cheap ass PC with Windows 10 installed. (PC users with Windows 7 will hang on to what will probably be considered the best Windows OS Microsoft ever made.) For the majority, the PC upgrade cycle is no longer driven by the need for new hardware, it's driven by a new version of Windows. Even a 4 year old PC will do for the majority of computer users, if it can be upgraded to a newer Windows 10. And that's a big if. This is why there's an up tick in PC purchases over the year. But by most consensus, it's no where near as large as they would liked to have seen, with a new version of Windows out.    
    Apple can easily use its economics of scale and define a new ARM PC standard, but instead they do a Bubka.
    I still think that's in the cards. Only now do we have all the pieces to ensure that happens:

    1. With the A10 Fusion, Apple finally has an SoC that's capable enough to run macOS
    2. Emergence of Swift programming language
    3. Introduction of a unified filesystem (APFS)

    In a couple of years don't be surprised to see the introduction of an ARM-based "Mac" (I put that in quotes because I don't think it'll be branded a Mac).
  • Reply 60 of 70
    According to Ben Bajarin premium Windows PCs are starting to take share from Mac. Rumors are Microsoft is going to introduce an iMac competitor at their windows event in NYC later this month. I don't think Apple can go too much longer without a Mac update. Why cede any of the premium space to Windows?
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