'Apple Car' project to choose new direction in late 2017 - report

245

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 84
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,454member
    I'm surprised Wall Street hasn't reacted one way or the other so far.  Perhaps they haven't heard this one yet.
  • Reply 22 of 84
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,786member

    Apple needs to kill this project. Existing automakers aren't going to abandon their autonomy efforts to partner with Apple and CarPlay shows us what happens when Apple doesn't control the entire experience.


    Isn't that why they're building a car? To control the entire experience?
    califastasleep
  • Reply 23 of 84
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,898member
    spice-boy said:
    Self driving cars to me an solution to a problem that does not need one. I know a lot of people die in car accidents each year but unless all standard cars are replaced with self operational cars people will still get into crashes for various reasons. I am sure these vehicles will be very expensive and out of reach to most Americans, this whole effort smells like a Silicon Valley billionaire wet dream more than a Ford Model T solution. I suppose Apple is spending a lot of money and energy in how to make cars safer but ultimately software and hardware failures still exists in products no matter how advance they are. Who hasn't had an iPhone or other smart phone "crash" or fail completely? 
    Very well stated. Self driving cars fall into the form of "just because you can doesn't mean your should".
    h2pspice-boy
  • Reply 24 of 84
    xixoxixo Posts: 427member
    lkrupp said:
    Blathering speculation. Rumors of changes to a rumored plan, rumored to be behind schedule. No facts, no confirmation, no evidence, no nothing, just rumors from “sources.” This is either just pure fantasy invented by tech bloggers with too much time on their hands or leaked propaganda from Apple to direct away from their real objective. Either way it’s baloney. But baloney sells doesn’t it. I had a baloney sandwich yesterday.

    And what’s with the dumbass conceptual picture of Apple’s rumored vehicle? More fantasy dreamed up by some wannabe graphic artist?
    I do agree that most media reporting today is dog food. that's why they call it a news story. if you had a baloney sandwich yesterday, should I assume you're full of baloney....?

    moving forward requires taking risks. someone @apple thought it was a risk worth taking because the payoff could have been enormous. learning is valuable. Bell Labs did stuff all the time that had no apparent immediate payoff. who knows how the automotive engineering research @apple will pay off in the long run? at least apple is smart enough to actually utilize said knowledge down the road...

    "a cellphone without buttons!?!? are they nuts? they'll sell maybe three!" - many former tech CEOs of formerly relevant corporations

    spice-boy said:
    Self driving cars to me an solution to a problem that does not need one. I know a lot of people die in car accidents each year but unless all standard cars are replaced with self operational cars people will still get into crashes for various reasons. I am sure these vehicles will be very expensive and out of reach to most Americans, this whole effort smells like a Silicon Valley billionaire wet dream more than a Ford Model T solution. I suppose Apple is spending a lot of money and energy in how to make cars safer but ultimately software and hardware failures still exists in products no matter how advanced they are. Who hasn't had an iPhone or other smart phone "crash" or fail completely? 
    a large number of people do die every year in car accidents, but as a percentage of population it is a miniscule number. 55,000 divided by 320,000,000 = .017%

    kind of like how a large number of people die or are wounded from firearms, but as a percentage of population it is a miniscule number. 55,000 divided by 320,000,000 = .017%
     
    rich people will pay good money to avoid auto accidents or avoid getting shot. there's money to be made there. the rest of us run over each other and/or shoot each other.

    'the free market' (hahahah yeah right) determines the tipping point between smart chauffeurs vs 'smart' cars, or armed security vs 'smart' guns.
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 25 of 84
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,159member
    sog35 said:
    Personally I always thought building a car was a stupid idea.

    Risks are massive.
    Margins are slim.

    Just look at the 'success' story of Tesla who is losing $30k on every car they sell. There isn't much profit to make in the industry.

    Apple should just concentrate on making CarPlay much better. Or team up with a specific car company or several and build a better CarOS.

    Right now CarPlay is not even close to perfect. 



    And yet, Tesla just sold more Model S cars than BMW and Mercedes combined in the same segment.  Tesla is doing just fine. 
    fastasleep
  • Reply 26 of 84
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,981member
    sog35 said:
    Personally I always thought building a car was a stupid idea.

    Risks are massive.
    Margins are slim.

    Just look at the 'success' story of Tesla who is losing $30k on every car they sell. There isn't much profit to make in the industry.

    Apple should just concentrate on making CarPlay much better. Or team up with a specific car company or several and build a better CarOS.

    Right now CarPlay is not even close to perfect. 



    And yet, Tesla just sold more Model S cars than BMW and Mercedes combined in the same segment.  Tesla is doing just fine. 
    but Tesla is bleeding money. BMW & Mercedes are not.
    anantksundaramcalinolamacguywatto_cobrabestkeptsecret
  • Reply 27 of 84
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,981member
    sog35 said:
    Personally I always thought building a car was a stupid idea.

    Risks are massive.
    Margins are slim.

    Just look at the 'success' story of Tesla who is losing $30k on every car they sell. There isn't much profit to make in the industry.

    Apple should just concentrate on making CarPlay much better. Or team up with a specific car company or several and build a better CarOS.

    Right now CarPlay is not even close to perfect. 



    Reading this latest Bloomberg article, this is what I sense Apple is shifting towards doing - building a CarPlay on steroids.

    "Apple Inc. has drastically scaled back its automotive ambitions, leading to hundreds of job cuts and a new direction that, for now, no longer includes building its own car, according to people familiar with the project."

    "
    New leadership of the initiative, known internally as Project Titan, has re-focused on developing an autonomous driving system that gives Apple flexibility to either partner with existing carmakers, or return to designing its own vehicle in the future, the people also said. "
  • Reply 28 of 84

    And yet, Tesla just sold more Model S cars than BMW and Mercedes combined in the same segment.  Tesla is doing just fine. 
    They'll make it up in volume?
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 29 of 84
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,521member
    spice-boy said:
    Self driving cars to me an solution to a problem that does not need one. I know a lot of people die in car accidents each year but unless all standard cars are replaced with self operational cars people will still get into crashes for various reasons. I am sure these vehicles will be very expensive and out of reach to most Americans, this whole effort smells like a Silicon Valley billionaire wet dream more than a Ford Model T solution. I suppose Apple is spending a lot of money and energy in how to make cars safer but ultimately software and hardware failures still exists in products no matter how advance they are. Who hasn't had an iPhone or other smart phone "crash" or fail completely? 
    I think, though, that Apple sees personal transportation as an advanced Augmented Reality problem.

    As with autopilot systems on aircraft, which are there for safety and economics — and they make the whole air travel thing work — land travel is ripe for computer augmentation. 

    Just as Jobs said the computer is a "bicycle for the mind," Apple (and Google) have to pursue the computer as amplifiers for our eyes, ears and reflexes as we put our lives at risk on the streets and roads. Computers have already long replaced carburetors and mechanical ignition timing systems in automotive engine management with pretty good reliability,

    Apple has an obligation to take on the problem of moving through 3D time-space in a complex environment. What else could they usefully spend their accumulated profits on? 
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 30 of 84
    stevehsteveh Posts: 480member
    spice-boy said:
    I already have a self driving car, it's called mass transit. 
    Yeah, great. It goes where it wants to go, not necessarily where I need to go, on its own schedule, which might not be when I need to be wherever I need to go.

    And it costs as much, or more, than driving myself over a month of workdays, while taking more time to do it. I do get to pay for part of it even if I'm not using it, so there's that to consider.

    I have used mass transit, off and on, over a 35-year working career. It works for some people in some areas, not very well at all for a lot more.
  • Reply 31 of 84
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,159member
    sog35 said:
    Personally I always thought building a car was a stupid idea.

    Risks are massive.
    Margins are slim.

    Just look at the 'success' story of Tesla who is losing $30k on every car they sell. There isn't much profit to make in the industry.

    Apple should just concentrate on making CarPlay much better. Or team up with a specific car company or several and build a better CarOS.

    Right now CarPlay is not even close to perfect. 



    And yet, Tesla just sold more Model S cars than BMW and Mercedes combined in the same segment.  Tesla is doing just fine. 
    but Tesla is bleeding money. BMW & Mercedes are not.
    Musk at this point doesn't care about profits and is helping spur innovative solutions throughout the industry. Every single car manufacturer is now coming out with whole lines of electric vehicles. Musks vision is beyond profits right now. 
    xixotmayfastasleep
  • Reply 32 of 84
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,981member
    flaneur said:
    spice-boy said:
    Self driving cars to me an solution to a problem that does not need one. I know a lot of people die in car accidents each year but unless all standard cars are replaced with self operational cars people will still get into crashes for various reasons. I am sure these vehicles will be very expensive and out of reach to most Americans, this whole effort smells like a Silicon Valley billionaire wet dream more than a Ford Model T solution. I suppose Apple is spending a lot of money and energy in how to make cars safer but ultimately software and hardware failures still exists in products no matter how advance they are. Who hasn't had an iPhone or other smart phone "crash" or fail completely? 
    I think, though, that Apple sees personal transportation as an advanced Augmented Reality problem.

    As with autopilot systems on aircraft, which are there for safety and economics — and they make the whole air travel thing work — land travel is ripe for computer augmenration. 

    Just as Jobs said the computer is a "bicycle for the mind," Apple (and Google) have to pursue the computer as amplifiers for our eyes, ears and reflexes as we put our lives at risk on the streets and roads. Computers have already long replaced carburetors and mechanical ignition timing systems in automotive engine management with pretty good reliability,

    Apple has an obligation to take on the problem of moving through 3D time-space in a complex environment. What else could they usefully spend their accumulated profits on? 
    "What else could they usefully spend their accumulated profits on? "

    something like this:  
    http://www.recode.net/2016/9/29/13107740/microsoft-combines-research-artificial-intelligence
  • Reply 33 of 84
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,981member
    sog35 said:
    Personally I always thought building a car was a stupid idea.

    Risks are massive.
    Margins are slim.

    Just look at the 'success' story of Tesla who is losing $30k on every car they sell. There isn't much profit to make in the industry.

    Apple should just concentrate on making CarPlay much better. Or team up with a specific car company or several and build a better CarOS.

    Right now CarPlay is not even close to perfect. 



    And yet, Tesla just sold more Model S cars than BMW and Mercedes combined in the same segment.  Tesla is doing just fine. 
    but Tesla is bleeding money. BMW & Mercedes are not.
    Musk at this point doesn't care about profits and is helping spur innovative solutions throughout the industry. Every single car manufacturer is now coming out with whole lines of electric vehicles. Musks vision is beyond profits right now. 
    not just profits but cash. Musk keeps having to borrow a ton of money and sooner or later that well will run dry and investors will lose trust in him.
    anantksundaramcalientropysnolamacguy
  • Reply 34 of 84
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,981member
    sog35 said:
    Personally I always thought building a car was a stupid idea.

    Risks are massive.
    Margins are slim.

    Just look at the 'success' story of Tesla who is losing $30k on every car they sell. There isn't much profit to make in the industry.

    Apple should just concentrate on making CarPlay much better. Or team up with a specific car company or several and build a better CarOS.

    Right now CarPlay is not even close to perfect. 



    I think the key take-away from the article is this:

    "Company to decide fate of self-driving platform by late 2017"
    cali
  • Reply 35 of 84
    spice-boy said:
    Self driving cars to me an solution to a problem that does not need one. I know a lot of people die in car accidents each year but unless all standard cars are replaced with self operational cars people will still get into crashes for various reasons. I am sure these vehicles will be very expensive and out of reach to most Americans, this whole effort smells like a Silicon Valley billionaire wet dream more than a Ford Model T solution. I suppose Apple is spending a lot of money and energy in how to make cars safer but ultimately software and hardware failures still exists in products no matter how advance they are. Who hasn't had an iPhone or other smart phone "crash" or fail completely? 
    There are already a couple of start ups claiming they can do self driving kits for $1000 already so it's not that expensive. Just the redundancy that needs to be built in that could increase the price. Scale and machine learning will bring that down before long though. It's only a matter of time before almost all new cars come with the tech pre-installed like Tesla does now. It won't be for the poor but then new cars aren't anyway, it'll be for the middle class. 
  • Reply 36 of 84
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,521member
    flaneur said:
    spice-boy said:
    Self driving cars to me an solution to a problem that does not need one. I know a lot of people die in car accidents each year but unless all standard cars are replaced with self operational cars people will still get into crashes for various reasons. I am sure these vehicles will be very expensive and out of reach to most Americans, this whole effort smells like a Silicon Valley billionaire wet dream more than a Ford Model T solution. I suppose Apple is spending a lot of money and energy in how to make cars safer but ultimately software and hardware failures still exists in products no matter how advance they are. Who hasn't had an iPhone or other smart phone "crash" or fail completely? 
    I think, though, that Apple sees personal transportation as an advanced Augmented Reality problem.

    As with autopilot systems on aircraft, which are there for safety and economics — and they make the whole air travel thing work — land travel is ripe for computer augmenration. 

    Just as Jobs said the computer is a "bicycle for the mind," Apple (and Google) have to pursue the computer as amplifiers for our eyes, ears and reflexes as we put our lives at risk on the streets and roads. Computers have already long replaced carburetors and mechanical ignition timing systems in automotive engine management with pretty good reliability,

    Apple has an obligation to take on the problem of moving through 3D time-space in a complex environment. What else could they usefully spend their accumulated profits on? 
    "What else could they usefully spend their accumulated profits on? "

    something like this:  http://www.recode.net/2016/9/29/13107740/microsoft-combines-research-artificial-intelligence
    You don't think Apple is doing cars as an AI problem? That was my point. It's the ultimate AI/AR research AND APPLICATION problem. 

    I'm debating whether to follow your link. Microsoft depresses me. It could ruin my morning buzz.
    canukstormpalominecalifastasleepmonstrosity
  • Reply 37 of 84
    sog35 said:
    Personally I always thought building a car was a stupid idea.

    Risks are massive.
    Margins are slim.
    Absolutely agree with you.

    And I would not underestimate also the manufacturing issue: large scale and custom duty are severe constraints on location.
  • Reply 38 of 84
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,521member

    spice-boy said:
    Self driving cars to me an solution to a problem that does not need one. I know a lot of people die in car accidents each year but unless all standard cars are replaced with self operational cars people will still get into crashes for various reasons. I am sure these vehicles will be very expensive and out of reach to most Americans, this whole effort smells like a Silicon Valley billionaire wet dream more than a Ford Model T solution. I suppose Apple is spending a lot of money and energy in how to make cars safer but ultimately software and hardware failures still exists in products no matter how advance they are. Who hasn't had an iPhone or other smart phone "crash" or fail completely? 
    There are already a couple of start ups claiming they can do self driving kits for $1000 already so it's not that expensive. Just the redundancy that needs to be built in that could increase the price. Scale and machine learning will bring that down before long though. It's only a matter of time before almost all new cars come with the tech pre-installed like Tesla does now. It won't be for the poor but then new cars aren't anyway, it'll be for the middle class. 
    I like the machine learning and democratization part, but I don't see how any startup is going to add on control over steering, engine and brakes for $1000. You got a link or two on that?
  • Reply 39 of 84
    sirlance99 said:
     Musks vision is beyond profits right now. 
    Brings a tear to my eye...
  • Reply 40 of 84
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,491member
    lkrupp said:
    Blathering speculation. Rumors of changes to a rumored plan, rumored to be behind schedule. No facts, no confirmation, no evidence, no nothing, just rumors from “sources.” This is either just pure fantasy invented by tech bloggers with too much time on their hands or leaked propaganda from Apple to direct away from their real objective. Either way it’s baloney. But baloney sells doesn’t it. I had a baloney sandwich yesterday.

    And what’s with the dumbass conceptual picture of Apple’s rumored vehicle? More fantasy dreamed up by some wannabe graphic artist?
    Baloney?  So all those people didn't get laid-off or left?   That was pretty specific information.

    I never personally thought Apple would pull off a car for all the obvious reasons:  very large capital investment, not core competency, supplier issues, high labor cost, low margins except perhaps at the luxury end of the market, different state and country regulations, and high liability costs if a car has a "bug", especially a self-driving car.  

    I still maintain (although almost no one agrees with me) that 20 years from now, Apple will be an A.I. and robotics company.   
Sign In or Register to comment.