If the Touchbar shipped on the cheaper/smaller MacBooks I could really see them shipping iPad numbers.
Funny they kept the headphone jack for "professional audio". This was the same argument I had for the headphone jack and got bashed for it like crazy here on Apple Insider. It's still confusing why they didn't include a lightning port for optional charging, headphones and headphone adapters. Makes Apple seem less confident in their choices.
If you have wired headphones, you're good. If you have wireless headphones, you're good.
Which leaves the question, how many people charge gadgets through their laptops? I don't, but unlike the anti-Macbook Pro crowd, I'm not going to assume that everyone else is the same.
Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
But if this thing is as bad as people have been saying it is, then no one would buy it. They'll wait for the next one, or move to Windows as folk here have said they would. I mean if you cannot POSSIBLY work in anything less than 32GB of RAM then the machine is useless to you.
I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than we do.
The iHaters are just moving the goalposts now. In six months they'll say "well let's see if it's still selling in a year!".
Negative people are much more likely to rant and rave on web forums. They want everybody to be as miserable as they are. Then tech bloggers chime in to spin the negatives as the majority opinion. Happens all the time on AI. Then sales figures come out to refute their negativity... which just makes the negative commenters even angrier. They start calling people who bought the product stupid losers. Happens all the time on AI. The 3.5mm headphone jack is the perfect example. Now comes the MacBook Pro, then the AppleTV. Oh, and Intel is now on their radar. Notice the carping and blathering about Intel’s CPUs holding back Apple? The “other” solution is always the best with this crowd. “If only Apple would...” is the omnipresent meme.
If I have this right the two big complaints about this Macbook Pro is that it won't take more than 16GB of RAM and pricing. I believe the RAM limit was due to Intel's design yet it seems that this is somehow Apple's fault. The price complaint is nothing new, it always amazes me that people can't grasp the concept that a premium product costs more money. You could argue that this is not a premium product because of x, y and z but if you truly feel this way then why should the price even matter to you. In other words if you decided you can only work with a pro product, and in your opinion the Macbook Pro is not a pro product, then why does the cost of a consumer offering make a difference to you.
What was Apple's alternative, wait for Intel to get their act together and further delay a much needed refresh. I hope this will really be a push to replace Intel with the A series.
Build a computer with a large Touch Bar and allow developers to write applications that display the menu on the Track Bar when in full-screen mode. That would be interesting!
Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
But if this thing is as bad as people have been saying it is, then no one would buy it. They'll wait for the next one, or move to Windows as folk here have said they would. I mean if you cannot POSSIBLY work in anything less than 32GB of RAM then the machine is useless to you.
I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than we do.
It's not that black/white.
There are a variety of needs among Apple's customers. I don't doubt that these new laptops meet the needs of many (perhaps even a majority) of Apple's customers.
But the new machines are clearly a disappointment to many (probably not a majority) of Apple's high-end customers.
I think it is a mistake for Apple (and those Panglossian Apple fans who reflexively defend everything Apple does) to believe that just because these high-end customers are not a majority of consumers that they don't matter. Partly they matter because some of these folks are Apple's most die hard fans -- the ones who evangelize Apple products and provide support to family and friends. Partly they matter because while every individual niche represents a minority of users, it could very well be that the some of all the minorities is a majority.
Speaking strictly as an owner many AAPL shares, I think Apple needs to figure out how to provide a broader product range. I don't think they should pursue low margin or "cheap" products, but I do think they should be more open to pursuing low volume (but high margin) products that are direct offshoots of their more high volume products. For example, they need more than one basic Mac Pro configuration and they need to update it more than every 3 to 4 years. As another example, I think it was a mistake to kill off Apple-branded monitors.
Off course Apple employees and companies like IBM will buy these new Macbook pro who is moving away from Windows laptop partially or entirely.
But, that is not whole Macbook pro market. Millions of college students is big market for Macbook Pro. All kinds of Professionals out side of large corporations is another big market with higher performance, longer battery need. Than, rest of us with need for lighter and cheaper Macbook Pro. So, Apple please have mercy on us and drop base model(8GB,256 SSD, no OLED) price to affordable $1199.
Apple does not have a normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop. That is a major oversight since that is what almost everybody who is not a professional film editor wants, no? Normal price is $ 1,200 - $ 1,300. Am I wrong?
I think we'll see a 32GB Macbook Pro next year. In the mean time, the Touch Bar and other new features will get a chance to prove themselves with customers and developers.
If Intel can't sort itself out then I'm afraid you won't
Discussions of design changes aside, a lot of the limitations in terms of processing power is at the hands of Intel. It's looking like a 2-year wait for 32GB RAM capabilities in a macbook pro since this will still not be available with low power DDR in Kaby Lake.
According to the previously leaked Intel roadmap, Coffee Lake - the 14nm version of Cannon Lake intended for the H and U flavours of processors - is currently scheduled as a Q2 2018 release from Intel. See image at http://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/22/intel-mobile-roadmap-coffee-lake/
So a possible path for macbook pros is:
Q2/3 2017 refresh to Kaby Lake - up to quad core, better power efficiency, better graphics capability compared to Skylake Q3/4 2018 refresh to Coffee Lake - up to 6 core, Support for larger RAM configurations.
Some would say Skylake -> Kaby Lake is not a big jump. Coffee Lake, however, should be significant.
Bottom line - if you've got a 4/5+ year old laptop to upgrade, now is the time to buy. If it's 1-3 years old, it may be worth waiting 2 more years.
So, Apple please have mercy on us and drop base model(8GB,256 SSD, no OLED) price to affordable $1199.
Stop buying the obsolete Macbook Air and Apple will do that. Go with the Retina Macbook (8 GB, 256 GB SSD, no OLED) until then or just wait. Or buy last year's basic model with 128 GB SSD $1299.
Apple does not have a normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop. That is a major oversight since that is what almost everybody who is not a professional film editor wants, no? Normal price is $ 1,200 - $ 1,300. Am I wrong?
If I have this right the two big complaints about this Macbook Pro is that it won't take more than 16GB of RAM and pricing. I believe the RAM limit was due to Intel's design yet it seems that this is somehow Apple's fault. The price complaint is nothing new, it always amazes me that people can't grasp the concept that a premium product costs more money. You could argue that this is not a premium product because of x, y and z but if you truly feel this way then why should the price even matter to you. In other words if you decided you can only work with a pro product, and in your opinion the Macbook Pro is not a pro product, then why does the cost of a consumer offering make a difference to you.
What was Apple's alternative, wait for Intel to get their act together and further delay a much needed refresh. I hope this will really be a push to replace Intel with the A series.
I don't mind so much the price. I do mind that Apple does not offer an affordable ($ 1,200 - $ 1,300) 13 inch retina laptop with at least 256 GB, for those of us who travel and do not need to mix a new studio tape or edit a new feature movie on the go.
The next couple of years are going to be interesting for Apple. Their drive for thin products is getting ridiculous.
The Touchbar strikes me as something like the S7 Edge. Not convinced it is a groundbreaking new UI that I would use, unless I decide to like Emojis..... Your mileage may vary.
Not to mention a user couldn't connect their 1 month old iPhone 7 (+) to this laptop without a dongle. Not to mention SD cards, USBs, HDMIs....... I totally understood DVI, VGA, Cd drive, and MAYBE Ethernet but no HDMI? Every projector I have seen in the last 4 years uses HDMI; you know, what "professionals" do with laptops. The included port is why I bought the mid-2012 retina.
Apple needs to get their interface connections in order. It is sloppier than I have ever seen it with poor consistency. If they are going to cold turkey USB-C on their products, the iPhone 7S/8 better go that way as well.
Of course, Apple apologist will find some reason that Apple is prefect.
Yup, the usual:
I can't see a use for the Touchbar, so it must be useless. It can't connect to a one month old iPhone because none of Apple's customers would ever think of just connecting it wirelessly (if they ever need to connect an iPhone at all). Apple's customers will need every single dongle every created because WIRELESS DOES NOT EXIST! It doesn't have every single socket dating back to the candle holder on Babbage's Difference Engine, so surely no one will buy it. Remember WIRELESS IS SOMETHING YOU IMAGINE DUE TO YOUR DRUG HABIT. IT DOES NOT EXIST! The only reason this thing will sell like hot cakes is because apologists think Apple is perfect.
Nice job; I think you covered everything.
"Of course, Apple apologists* will find some reason that Apple is prefect" - That one is for you.
Not sure how one calls USB 3.0, HDMI outdated......... Everything in my house, including my iPhone cables use it. Sure, lets phase it out but why not include one port for 3-5 more years? Then USB-C might be more mainstream. Nor did I say it needed every port ever. But again, I should expect logic from the "Apple can do no wrong crowd." Wireless is still a subprime experience. Air Play is a joke compared to HDMI in my experience.
I have two dongles for my mid-2012 Pro, I would need 5 or so for this new one.
"The card was excised because of the "path forward" with more generic physical card readers, or the growing implementation of wireless transfer.
Schiller says that the 3.5mm headphone jack was retained for professionals with audio gear that do not have wireless solutions, and still need the jack for macOS." So, the "professional" solution to mass storage is wireless, but professionals don't have access to BT headphones. It's getting deep in the spin room.
Apart from the things that people have mentioned, a crucial point is that professionals CANNOT HAVE AUDIO LAG. Having a delay between doing something onscreen or playing something, and hearing it, is absolutely catastrophic in any playing/recording/performing situation.
All conventional wireless audio systems transmit and buffer, which results in considerable lag that makes them completely unusable for anything but pure playback for consumption.
There are professional wireless systems that are virtually latency-free, but they aren't necessarily 1:1 quality, and the require largish external boxes. If I'm on the road and editing a recording of last night's show on the tour bus, I'll plug in my (analog minijack) in-ear monitors, which usually plug into the analog minijack on the wireless belt pack when I'm onstage.
I also keep a minijack cable around as backup in case the audio interface I have hooked up goes on the Fritz during a show.
The next couple of years are going to be interesting for Apple. Their drive for thin products is getting ridiculous.
The Touchbar strikes me as something like the S7 Edge. Not convinced it is a groundbreaking new UI that I would use, unless I decide to like Emojis..... Your mileage may vary.
Not to mention a user couldn't connect their 1 month old iPhone 7 (+) to this laptop without a dongle. Not to mention SD cards, USBs, HDMIs....... I totally understood DVI, VGA, Cd drive, and MAYBE Ethernet but no HDMI? Every projector I have seen in the last 4 years uses HDMI; you know, what "professionals" do with laptops. The included port is why I bought the mid-2012 retina.
Apple needs to get their interface connections in order. It is sloppier than I have ever seen it with poor consistency. If they are going to cold turkey USB-C on their products, the iPhone 7S/8 better go that way as well.
Of course, Apple apologist will find some reason that Apple is prefect.
Yup, the usual:
I can't see a use for the Touchbar, so it must be useless. It can't connect to a one month old iPhone because none of Apple's customers would ever think of just connecting it wirelessly (if they ever need to connect an iPhone at all). Apple's customers will need every single dongle every created because WIRELESS DOES NOT EXIST! It doesn't have every single socket dating back to the candle holder on Babbage's Difference Engine, so surely no one will buy it. Remember WIRELESS IS SOMETHING YOU IMAGINE DUE TO YOUR DRUG HABIT. IT DOES NOT EXIST! The only reason this thing will sell like hot cakes is because apologists think Apple is perfect.
Nice job; I think you covered everything.
"Of course, Apple apologists* will find some reason that Apple is prefect" - That one is for you.
Not sure how one calls USB 3.0, HDMI outdated......... Everything in my house, including my iPhone cables use it. Sure, lets phase it out but why not include one port for 3-5 more years? Then USB-C might be more mainstream. Nor did I say it needed every port ever. But again, I should expect logic from the "Apple can do no wrong crowd." Wireless is still a subprime experience. Air Play is a joke compared to HDMI in my experience.
I have two dongles for my mid-2012 Pro, I would need 5 or so for this new one.
OR you buy ONE dongle which does SD card, USB 3, LAN and HDMI. Then you only have one dongle.
I think we'll see a 32GB Macbook Pro next year. In the mean time, the Touch Bar and other new features will get a chance to prove themselves with customers and developers.
If Intel can't sort itself out then I'm afraid you won't
Discussions of design changes aside, a lot of the limitations in terms of processing power is at the hands of Intel. It's looking like a 2-year wait for 32GB RAM capabilities in a macbook pro since this will still not be available with low power DDR in Kaby Lake.
According to the previously leaked Intel roadmap, Coffee Lake - the 14nm version of Cannon Lake intended for the H and U flavours of processors - is currently scheduled as a Q2 2018 release from Intel. See image at http://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/22/intel-mobile-roadmap-coffee-lake/
So a possible path for macbook pros is:
Q2/3 2017 refresh to Kaby Lake - up to quad core, better power efficiency, better graphics capability compared to Skylake Q3/4 2018 refresh to Coffee Lake - up to 6 core, Support for larger RAM configurations.
Some would say Skylake -> Kaby Lake is not a big jump. Coffee Lake, however, should be significant.
Bottom line - if you've got a 4/5+ year old laptop to upgrade, now is the time to buy. If it's 1-3 years old, it may be worth waiting 2 more years.
No doubt about it -- Intel sucks.
But Apple has been much larger and more profitable than Intel for quite a while now. Why is the dog allowing itself to be wagged by the tail?
Apple does not have a normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop. That is a major oversight since that is what almost everybody who is not a professional film editor wants, no? Normal price is $ 1,200 - $ 1,300. Am I wrong?
Yes!
2.7GHz Processor 128GB Storage
2.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB 1866MHz memory
128GB PCIe-based SSD1
Intel Iris Graphics 6100
Two Thunderbolt 2 ports
$1,299.00
sorry. let me correct myself: normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop, with enough storage space so that I can save more than 2 movies and an iPhone back-up on it....
Apple does not have a normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop. That is a major oversight since that is what almost everybody who is not a professional film editor wants, no? Normal price is $ 1,200 - $ 1,300. Am I wrong?
Yes!
2.7GHz Processor 128GB Storage
2.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB 1866MHz memory
128GB PCIe-based SSD1
Intel Iris Graphics 6100
Two Thunderbolt 2 ports
$1,299.00
sorry. let me correct myself: normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop, with enough storage space so that I can save more than 2 movies and an iPhone back-up on it....
Changing the goalposts to fit your moan, fair enough Get a MacBook with 256GB storage for the same price?
If I have this right the two big complaints about this Macbook Pro is that it won't take more than 16GB of RAM and pricing. I believe the RAM limit was due to Intel's design yet it seems that this is somehow Apple's fault. The price complaint is nothing new, it always amazes me that people can't grasp the concept that a premium product costs more money. You could argue that this is not a premium product because of x, y and z but if you truly feel this way then why should the price even matter to you. In other words if you decided you can only work with a pro product, and in your opinion the Macbook Pro is not a pro product, then why does the cost of a consumer offering make a difference to you.
What was Apple's alternative, wait for Intel to get their act together and further delay a much needed refresh. I hope this will really be a push to replace Intel with the A series.
You're forgetting the shouting that this thing isn't Kaby Lake (that finally subsided after a few days of shouting, when even the last pitchfork-wielding moron got wind of the idea that Apple can't use parts that don't exist yet), and
SSD pricing, because a fucking consumer Evo is $300 for a terabyte, never mind that it maxes out at a small fraction of the speed of Apple's offerings, and that Apple is actually pretty cheap this time around.
I also saw one idiot rant about how Apple should have "innovated" by including TrueTone 4K OLED displays. He went away when I pointed out that the only two 4K OLED displays I could find off the bat were five thousand and forty thousand dollars, respectively.
One valid complaint IMO is cutting of all single-use legacy ports except the minijack in favor of four universal ports. But this is classic Apple, forcing the peripheral industry's hand.
Apple does not have a normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop. That is a major oversight since that is what almost everybody who is not a professional film editor wants, no? Normal price is $ 1,200 - $ 1,300. Am I wrong?
Yes!
2.7GHz Processor 128GB Storage
2.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB 1866MHz memory
128GB PCIe-based SSD1
Intel Iris Graphics 6100
Two Thunderbolt 2 ports
$1,299.00
sorry. let me correct myself: normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop, with enough storage space so that I can save more than 2 movies and an iPhone back-up on it....
Apple still sells the 2015 retina MacBook Pro, JUST FOR YOU.
Comments
If you have wired headphones, you're good.
If you have wireless headphones, you're good.
Which leaves the question, how many people charge gadgets through their laptops? I don't, but unlike the anti-Macbook Pro crowd, I'm not going to assume that everyone else is the same.
What was Apple's alternative, wait for Intel to get their act together and further delay a much needed refresh. I hope this will really be a push to replace Intel with the A series.
There are a variety of needs among Apple's customers. I don't doubt that these new laptops meet the needs of many (perhaps even a majority) of Apple's customers.
But the new machines are clearly a disappointment to many (probably not a majority) of Apple's high-end customers.
I think it is a mistake for Apple (and those Panglossian Apple fans who reflexively defend everything Apple does) to believe that just because these high-end customers are not a majority of consumers that they don't matter. Partly they matter because some of these folks are Apple's most die hard fans -- the ones who evangelize Apple products and provide support to family and friends. Partly they matter because while every individual niche represents a minority of users, it could very well be that the some of all the minorities is a majority.
Speaking strictly as an owner many AAPL shares, I think Apple needs to figure out how to provide a broader product range. I don't think they should pursue low margin or "cheap" products, but I do think they should be more open to pursuing low volume (but high margin) products that are direct offshoots of their more high volume products. For example, they need more than one basic Mac Pro configuration and they need to update it more than every 3 to 4 years. As another example, I think it was a mistake to kill off Apple-branded monitors.
According to the previously leaked Intel roadmap, Coffee Lake - the 14nm version of Cannon Lake intended for the H and U flavours of processors - is currently scheduled as a Q2 2018 release from Intel. See image at http://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/22/intel-mobile-roadmap-coffee-lake/
So a possible path for macbook pros is:
Q2/3 2017 refresh to Kaby Lake - up to quad core, better power efficiency, better graphics capability compared to Skylake
Q3/4 2018 refresh to Coffee Lake - up to 6 core, Support for larger RAM configurations.
Some would say Skylake -> Kaby Lake is not a big jump. Coffee Lake, however, should be significant.
Bottom line - if you've got a 4/5+ year old laptop to upgrade, now is the time to buy. If it's 1-3 years old, it may be worth waiting 2 more years.
Yes!
2.7GHz Processor
128GB Storage
Not sure how one calls USB 3.0, HDMI outdated......... Everything in my house, including my iPhone cables use it. Sure, lets phase it out but why not include one port for 3-5 more years? Then USB-C might be more mainstream. Nor did I say it needed every port ever. But again, I should expect logic from the "Apple can do no wrong crowd." Wireless is still a subprime experience. Air Play is a joke compared to HDMI in my experience.
I have two dongles for my mid-2012 Pro, I would need 5 or so for this new one.
All conventional wireless audio systems transmit and buffer, which results in considerable lag that makes them completely unusable for anything but pure playback for consumption. There are professional wireless systems that are virtually latency-free, but they aren't necessarily 1:1 quality, and the require largish external boxes.
If I'm on the road and editing a recording of last night's show on the tour bus, I'll plug in my (analog minijack) in-ear monitors, which usually plug into the analog minijack on the wireless belt pack when I'm onstage. I also keep a minijack cable around as backup in case the audio interface I have hooked up goes on the Fritz during a show.
But Apple has been much larger and more profitable than Intel for quite a while now. Why is the dog allowing itself to be wagged by the tail?
Get a MacBook with 256GB storage for the same price?
SSD pricing, because a fucking consumer Evo is $300 for a terabyte, never mind that it maxes out at a small fraction of the speed of Apple's offerings, and that Apple is actually pretty cheap this time around.
I also saw one idiot rant about how Apple should have "innovated" by including TrueTone 4K OLED displays. He went away when I pointed out that the only two 4K OLED displays I could find off the bat were five thousand and forty thousand dollars, respectively.
One valid complaint IMO is cutting of all single-use legacy ports except the minijack in favor of four universal ports. But this is classic Apple, forcing the peripheral industry's hand.