Since LG makes the LCDs for the 4K & 5K iMacs, the internals of these monitors are probably essentially what is in the iMacs. Yeah the casing is not Apple pretty but I tend to think that they are probably functionally equivalent to anything Apple would have released. That still doesn't explain why Apple didn't bother to simply sell computer-less iMacs as displays though, how bothersome could that have been ?
@sirozha ;;;; Irrational rant. "Years of neglect" — How is it that you people cannot How can you have the arrogance to assume that they have the staff to work on both the old and new platforms at once? Does Intel come up with new processors so often that Apple should create a separate engineering department just to maintain constant re-engineering on the fading platform, selling their customers half-new $3000 machines up to the point where they pull the rug out from under you and then offer you the new platform that obsolesces the updated model thst you just bought? I can't believe the kind of unsympathetic, non-technical illogic that goes behind a statement like "they neglected the MacBook Pros for three years" when they have just released a revamped, reconceived, ground-up revision that clearly would take three years of full-on engineering to accomplish.
"There is no vision at Apple" — you know what? Stuff your worthless rant.
You misquoted me and then ridiculed your own statement that was not what I said.
Apple neglected Mac Pro (not MacBook Pro) before 2013, when they completely reingineered the platform and released an amazing Mac Pro. However, since then they haven't refreshed it for over 3 years, which is exactly what I called it - neglect. One doesn't need much reingineering to put an updated CPU and graphics card in the same desktop platform. Apple simply became so arrogant that they think they can continue charging many thousands of dollars for three-year-old CPUs and graphics cards.
Yeah, you're right your "years of neglect" referred to the Mac Pro, but your "lack of vision" nonsense still applies, and my same criticism of your attitude still applies. "One doesn't need much engineering" to slap in new CPU and graphics cards? Who says? An engineer familiar with Apple's personnel distribution, with the detailed parameters of the Pro design, with Intel's or whoever's graphics card upgrades, with Apple's cost/benefit profile of the platform, with their long-term plans for it, with their plans for releasing their own displays to go with it?
It's just that you guys don't know shit about any of these details, yet you're arrogant enough to condemn Tim Cook or Ive or whoever at Apple you hate today for selling out Steve Jobs's vision. Engineers of the caliber working at Apple don't grow on trees, and you have no idea if the team that works on the Pro is also the one that just finished killing themselves working overtime on the new MBPs. Imagine how they'd feel reading the kind of ignorant crap you guys have been throwing around for the last two weeks. Shame.
Since LG makes the LCDs for the 4K & 5K iMacs, the internals of these monitors are probably essentially what is in the iMacs. Yeah the casing is not Apple pretty but I tend to think that they are probably functionally equivalent to anything Apple would have released. That still doesn't explain why Apple didn't bother to simply sell computer-less iMacs as displays though, how bothersome could that have been ?
Very bothersome if LG doesn't have enough to supply both themselves and Apple with the displays. Ever think of that?
@sirozha ;;;; Irrational rant. "Years of neglect" — How is it that you people cannot How can you have the arrogance to assume that they have the staff to work on both the old and new platforms at once? Does Intel come up with new processors so often that Apple should create a separate engineering department just to maintain constant re-engineering on the fading platform, selling their customers half-new $3000 machines up to the point where they pull the rug out from under you and then offer you the new platform that obsolesces the updated model thst you just bought? I can't believe the kind of unsympathetic, non-technical illogic that goes behind a statement like "they neglected the MacBook Pros for three years" when they have just released a revamped, reconceived, ground-up revision that clearly would take three years of full-on engineering to accomplish.
"There is no vision at Apple" — you know what? Stuff your worthless rant.
You misquoted me and then ridiculed your own statement that was not what I said.
Apple neglected Mac Pro (not MacBook Pro) before 2013, when they completely reingineered the platform and released an amazing Mac Pro. However, since then they haven't refreshed it for over 3 years, which is exactly what I called it - neglect. One doesn't need much reingineering to put an updated CPU and graphics card in the same desktop platform. Apple simply became so arrogant that they think they can continue charging many thousands of dollars for three-year-old CPUs and graphics cards.
Yeah, you're right your "years of neglect" referred to the Mac Pro, but your "lack of vision" nonsense still applies, and my same criticism of your attitude still applies. "One doesn't need much engineering" to slap in new CPU and graphics cards? Who says? An engineer familiar with Apple's personnel distribution, with the detailed parameters of the Pro design, with Intel's or whoever's graphics card upgrades, with Apple's cost/benefit profile of the platform, with their long-term plans for it, with their plans for releasing their own displays to go with it?
It's just that you guys don't know shit about any of these details, yet you're arrogant enough to condemn Tim Cook or Ive or whoever at Apple you hate today for selling out Steve Jobs's vision. Engineers of the caliber working at Apple don't grow on trees, and you have no idea if the team that works on the Pro is also the one that just finished killing themselves working overtime on the new MBPs. Imagine how they'd feel reading the kind of ignorant crap you guys have been throwing around for the last two weeks. Shame.
I have a right to criticize Tim Cook. I'm a shareholder with more AAPL stock than I should have, and I don't like where Apple is going and what they are doing.
@sirozha ;;;;; Irrational rant. "Years of neglect" — How is it that you people cannot How can you have the arrogance to assume that they have the staff to work on both the old and new platforms at once? Does Intel come up with new processors so often that Apple should create a separate engineering department just to maintain constant re-engineering on the fading platform, selling their customers half-new $3000 machines up to the point where they pull the rug out from under you and then offer you the new platform that obsolesces the updated model thst you just bought? I can't believe the kind of unsympathetic, non-technical illogic that goes behind a statement like "they neglected the MacBook Pros for three years" when they have just released a revamped, reconceived, ground-up revision that clearly would take three years of full-on engineering to accomplish.
"There is no vision at Apple" — you know what? Stuff your worthless rant.
You misquoted me and then ridiculed your own statement that was not what I said.
Apple neglected Mac Pro (not MacBook Pro) before 2013, when they completely reingineered the platform and released an amazing Mac Pro. However, since then they haven't refreshed it for over 3 years, which is exactly what I called it - neglect. One doesn't need much reingineering to put an updated CPU and graphics card in the same desktop platform. Apple simply became so arrogant that they think they can continue charging many thousands of dollars for three-year-old CPUs and graphics cards.
Yeah, you're right your "years of neglect" referred to the Mac Pro, but your "lack of vision" nonsense still applies, and my same criticism of your attitude still applies. "One doesn't need much engineering" to slap in new CPU and graphics cards? Who says? An engineer familiar with Apple's personnel distribution, with the detailed parameters of the Pro design, with Intel's or whoever's graphics card upgrades, with Apple's cost/benefit profile of the platform, with their long-term plans for it, with their plans for releasing their own displays to go with it?
It's just that you guys don't know shit about any of these details, yet you're arrogant enough to condemn Tim Cook or Ive or whoever at Apple you hate today for selling out Steve Jobs's vision. Engineers of the caliber working at Apple don't grow on trees, and you have no idea if the team that works on the Pro is also the one that just finished killing themselves working overtime on the new MBPs. Imagine how they'd feel reading the kind of ignorant crap you guys have been throwing around for the last two weeks. Shame.
I have a right to criticize Tim Cook. I'm a shareholder with more AAPL stock than I should have, and I don't like where Apple is going and what they are doing.
Yeah, join the chorus of whining know-nothings that are creating a climate of Apple doom right when the Chinese market is contracting and currency distortions are making US exports ungodly expensive abroad — that's the way to boost your little pile of stock. Very smart.
Also, for all you know, you and the chorus could be causing Apple engineers to have second thoughts about carrying on working for you ingrates. Words have effects.
If I were you, as a stockholder I'd be talking about how fantastic the new MacBook Pros are, because they really are a quantum leap in portable computer design. And you could never tell that from the unbelievable amount of whining that's greeted the accomplishment. Like you wanting a Lightning port on them, or USB A, for instance. Do you not know what an insult that is to the people who've sweated over every tenth of a millimeter of these machines, every port decision through hundreds of renderings, mockups and prototypes? They're also the most critical end users of them, don't you know. And what an insult it would be to see a thicker edge on this form factor just to accommodate a lousy sncient USB port. Or at least you could wait for a teardown to see where you, as a veteran engineer, would squeeze in a Lightning port. Unbelievable, like I say.
About the only comment/complaint I would make regarding the new LG Displays is the lack of a Ethernet Port. I understand you can and will have to use a dongle to connect to a wired network, and that many people are connecting through wi-fi, but, that seems likely too small of a pipe for editing 4K+ video that's stored on a editing server somewhere in the building, instead of being permanently stored locally on a direct attached storage device.
I realize that if they included a Ethernet port, that there would likely be a small controversy over whether it was 1Gb or 10Gb, but I still think it would be worth it to include the port.
<Snip> Apple seems to have become confused between USB-C and Lightning connectors. The second generation of Magic Keyboard, Magic Mouse, and Magic Trackpad were released with the Lightning connector in 2015. Why put the Lightning connector in the non-mobile gear? Oh, that is so that folks could use their existing USB-A to Lightning cables to charge these devices. Amazing! Great vision, Apple! <Snip>
Interesting and measured analysis (the whole piece, not just the snippet above), thanks.
I agree with the issue of the rechargeable peripherals but I have a different take on the root problem. Lightning is logical at the device end for compatibility. I think the problem lies at the other end: the world today has too many USB-A devices to ignore and this is one example. The new MBP has tomorrow's ports but it also needs to work today. To make it useful today, you need at least one USB-A adaptor and Apple should have put one, or two, in the box.
They're cheap - that shouldn't mean that everyone should buy them, it just helps Apple supply them. Then the MBP would just work, out of the box, today,; not just in the future for which it is so well prepared. Personally, I reckon I may need three (like many individuals and businesses, I won't be updating all my kit in a single year); it only adds 1% to the cost of my 15" MBP but that's not the point - why isn't this "Pro" machine ready to use as supplied?
Because Apple knows how the world works.
If they supplied an adapter in the box then manufacturers would simply carry on making peripherals with the old USB-A connector to save on costs. Why? Because they know that every MacBook Pro user has an adapter, so there's no need to spend the money to move forward.
Since LG makes the LCDs for the 4K & 5K iMacs, the internals of these monitors are probably essentially what is in the iMacs. Yeah the casing is not Apple pretty but I tend to think that they are probably functionally equivalent to anything Apple would have released. That still doesn't explain why Apple didn't bother to simply sell computer-less iMacs as displays though, how bothersome could that have been ?
Very bothersome if LG doesn't have enough to supply both themselves and Apple with the displays. Ever think of that?
Now you mention it, that is probably the crux of the problem.
The 4K display isn't Thunderbolt 3 as stated in the article, its USB-C.
The 5K is Thunderbolt 3.
The 4K being just garden variety USB-C is great news for MacBook users. The LG 4K display will use the singe USB-C on the MacBook for data & power and the LG 4K display provides another few USB connections (albeit at USB 2 speed).
I'm in agreement about the aesthetics, but Apple has clearly communicated to LG its vision of how device interconnection will work moving forward. That part of these displays is very forward thinking.
Clearly, the 5K display is what we should buy if we have the money, seeing it not only has TB3 but also has a camera and speakers too. It's an all around better buy, in my opinion. It just very unfortunately that it looks so awful. Also, I am not finding all the specifications. Does this 5K LG display even have glass on the front? Is it matte? Also, is the camera 720p or 1080p or something else?
<Snip> Apple seems to have become confused between USB-C and Lightning connectors. The second generation of Magic Keyboard, Magic Mouse, and Magic Trackpad were released with the Lightning connector in 2015. Why put the Lightning connector in the non-mobile gear? Oh, that is so that folks could use their existing USB-A to Lightning cables to charge these devices. Amazing! Great vision, Apple! <Snip>
Interesting and measured analysis (the whole piece, not just the snippet above), thanks.
I agree with the issue of the rechargeable peripherals but I have a different take on the root problem. Lightning is logical at the device end for compatibility. I think the problem lies at the other end: the world today has too many USB-A devices to ignore and this is one example. The new MBP has tomorrow's ports but it also needs to work today. To make it useful today, you need at least one USB-A adaptor and Apple should have put one, or two, in the box.
They're cheap - that shouldn't mean that everyone should buy them, it just helps Apple supply them. Then the MBP would just work, out of the box, today,; not just in the future for which it is so well prepared. Personally, I reckon I may need three (like many individuals and businesses, I won't be updating all my kit in a single year); it only adds 1% to the cost of my 15" MBP but that's not the point - why isn't this "Pro" machine ready to use as supplied?
Because Apple knows how the world works.
If they supplied an adapter in the box then manufacturers would simply carry on making peripherals with the old USB-A connector to save on costs. Why? Because they know that every MacBook Pro user has an adapter, so there's no need to spend the money to move forward.
The way the world works is that manufacturers like new standards because that means they can sell replacement kit without waiting for the old ones to break. The adaptors would only highlight that users had the 'old fashioned' kit.
Comments
It's just that you guys don't know shit about any of these details, yet you're arrogant enough to condemn Tim Cook or Ive or whoever at Apple you hate today for selling out Steve Jobs's vision. Engineers of the caliber working at Apple don't grow on trees, and you have no idea if the team that works on the Pro is also the one that just finished killing themselves working overtime on the new MBPs. Imagine how they'd feel reading the kind of ignorant crap you guys have been throwing around for the last two weeks. Shame.
Also, for all you know, you and the chorus could be causing Apple engineers to have second thoughts about carrying on working for you ingrates. Words have effects.
If I were you, as a stockholder I'd be talking about how fantastic the new MacBook Pros are, because they really are a quantum leap in portable computer design. And you could never tell that from the unbelievable amount of whining that's greeted the accomplishment. Like you wanting a Lightning port on them, or USB A, for instance. Do you not know what an insult that is to the people who've sweated over every tenth of a millimeter of these machines, every port decision through hundreds of renderings, mockups and prototypes? They're also the most critical end users of them, don't you know. And what an insult it would be to see a thicker edge on this form factor just to accommodate a lousy sncient USB port. Or at least you could wait for a teardown to see where you, as a veteran engineer, would squeeze in a Lightning port. Unbelievable, like I say.
I realize that if they included a Ethernet port, that there would likely be a small controversy over whether it was 1Gb or 10Gb, but I still think it would be worth it to include the port.
If they supplied an adapter in the box then manufacturers would simply carry on making peripherals with the old USB-A connector to save on costs. Why? Because they know that every MacBook Pro user has an adapter, so there's no need to spend the money to move forward.
The 4K display isn't Thunderbolt 3 as stated in the article, its USB-C.
The 5K is Thunderbolt 3.
The 4K being just garden variety USB-C is great news for MacBook users. The LG 4K display will use the singe USB-C on the MacBook for data & power and the LG 4K display provides another few USB connections (albeit at USB 2 speed).
I'm in agreement about the aesthetics, but Apple has clearly communicated to LG its vision of how device interconnection will work moving forward. That part of these displays is very forward thinking.