Review: Apple's late-2016 15" MacBook Pro with Touch Bar

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 95
    twa440 said:
    flaneur said:
    GatoZilla said:
    So much for "objectivity." Who wrote this crap review... Phil the Shill? Taken in context of other platforms, this review wreaks of ad copy. This coming from a 20-plus-year mac user who doesn't don rose colored shades.
    Your comment reeks of the MacRumors mentality. Or better, emotionality. 
    Give up Pal, the posters here would be wildly accepting of a pile of dog shit with the Apple logo on it. And thats why Apple gets away with this. All style for the rich kiddies to play with.

    Well then get your poor a$$ out of here!!
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 62 of 95
    @DanielEran, one thing you didn't touch on in your review: How did you get one and where the hell is mine?

    If you used your position as an AI contributor to jump the queue I'm gonna be pissed off. Pissed off that *I* didn't think of that! :)

    Dan mentioned he received a review unit from Apple on the AI Podcast last week.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 63 of 95
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,921member
    flaneur said:
    GatoZilla said:
    So much for "objectivity." Who wrote this crap review... Phil the Shill? Taken in context of other platforms, this review wreaks of ad copy. This coming from a 20-plus-year mac user who doesn't don rose colored shades.
    Your comment reeks of the MacRumors mentality. Or better, emotionality. 
    I don't think so. I had to literally stop reading as it read like an article straight out of Apple marketing. It would have  been better to have someone review this whose pro Apple bias weren't so blatantly in your face. The review lacks credibility from the start as a result.
    hoodslide
  • Reply 64 of 95
    jdw said:
    I wonder what knocked off the 5th star in the mind of the author.
    Imo, price. MBPs have always been expensive, these just got even pricier when we're used to things getting more affordable over time. 

    Has anyone noticed that when you put a USB A plug next to a USB C, it looks like the bigger plug is about to eat the smaller one
  • Reply 65 of 95
    blitz1blitz1 Posts: 412member
    Welcome to dongle heaven.

    In the Spectrum's QL era it was considered a (fatal) flaw. Now it seems it's a feature
    dtb200hoodslide
  • Reply 66 of 95
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,764member
    jdw said:
    Note that if you log out of your account,
    you'll need to supply a password to log back in; Touch ID only works if your account is active.
    Now that is terribly disappointing.  The real joy of TouchID is to eliminate silly passwords to begin with.  I'd much rather implement a super-strong 19 digit password that I will only need to use as a backup, being able to use TouchID most of the time.  But if I still must type in a password to even access my Mac or login, the present implementation becomes a real kill-joy.
    It's exactly the same as with iOS: the password is required once at boot/log-in to unlock the secure enclave (and presumably the Apple ID for the App Store); after that, it will work via Touch ID. 
    watto_cobraSoli
  • Reply 67 of 95
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,921member
    flaneur said:
    avon b7 said:
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:

    Your comment is at odds with itself.

    Legacy? You realise that the overwhelming majority of the Mac line still uses ALL of those 'legacy' ports. The current lineup. Late 2016 AND 2017 has all of them.

    No sir. They are not legacy at all and that's by definition. Or perhaps we should say Apple is flogging premium priced 'old' equipment as modern?

    Yep legacy by definition (top google hit which is from wikipedia):

    "A legacy port is a computer port or connector that is considered by some to be fully or partially superseded. The replacement ports usually provide most of the functionality of the legacy ports with higher speeds, more compact design, or plug and play and hot swap capabilities for greater ease of use."

    Higher speed?  Check - USB-C Ports support both TB3 and USB 3.1.  USB-A only supports USB 3.1.  40Gbps > 10GBps.  TB2 ports only support TB2.
    More compact Design?  Check. USB-C is more compact than USB-A
    USB-C fully or partially supersedes USB 3.1 and TB2?  Check.

    The first mac to use USB-C had no USB-A.  
    The second mac to use USB-C has no USB-A.  

    For Apple USB-A is certainly legacy and replaces both TB and USB-A.  USB-C is a vast improvement because of versatility and reduced cost for the average Mac user.

    The next iMac might keep a USB-A port but I doubt it.
    Exactly. Replacement port. would you like me to find the definition of that for you? The iMac, the Mini and the Mac Pro don't have them. Apple is still shipping NEW machines with the existing ports and will continue to do so into 2017. They will be legacy ports on those machines when they get phased out. Right now that isn't the case at all and won't be until some unknown moment in 2017.
    Once again, that legacy left brain of yours is holding you back. If you take a holistic, bigger-picture right-brain view, the way Apple designer/engineers think, you'd be able to resolve the seeming contradiction. You're nit-picking, in other words, using chop-logic.

    Apple is not going to change the metal or the I/O architecture on their designs until there's a complete new edition of the form factor, built around new processors or displays. It's so obvious.

    To put it another way, from the point of view of the designer of the new, flatter MBP form factor, USB A is indeed a legacy and obsolete port.

    "To put it another way, from the point of view of the designer of the new, flatter MBP form factor, USB A is indeed a legacy and obsolete port"

    And what about the point of view of the user? How about a user who is about to buy an iMac this Christmas? 

    Apple is not going to change the metal or the I/O architecture on their designs until there's a complete new edition of the form factor, built around new processors or displays. It's so obvious.

    That is just absurd. I suspect there is something lurking under the surface in this case. What is obvious is that a company that plans its consumer roll out with Christmas in mind, and whose Christmas quarter is its best, will go into the Xmas season with barely any new offerings. I wouldn't he exaggerating if I described this situation as unheard of and I am sure they will be taken to task at the next earnings call and shareholders meeting.

    Like I said. Anything would be better than nothing.

    So. How could this situation be explained?

    An Intel delay is obviously feasible but it's not like Apple not to have a plan B. Perhaps they discovered something nasty at the last minute and chose to put the launch back instead of making a mistake similar to Samsung. 

    As for my brain. It's functioning to perfection. Not agreeing with Apple design or engineering logic isn't the problem. They've made plenty of mistakes in the past. We are talking about simple opinions.

    edited November 2016 twa440
  • Reply 68 of 95
    Please, AI, if you're not going to evict these fucking trolls who keep joining and spewing their shit all over these forums, please can you increase the number of members we can add to the Ignore List? I'm sick of having to read through all their crap, it's why I finally quit MR (as many here have done as well). All these fucking juveniles that think posting something negative gets them a seat at the cool kid's table are doing nothing to engage in a discourse for which I come here. Personally, I'd give them a quick exit with a free coupon to join MR, a site they're much better suited to their (lack of) maturity levels.
    sphericjahaja
  • Reply 69 of 95
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,764member
    jdw said:
    Well, I for one did read the article in its entirety, and anyone can see that I even quoted from the article in my previous post.  And while I do appreciate the article, I did find one thing curious.  The article was a glowing review of the 15" MBP.  Every "negative" decried by other media sources was answered or excused.  Virtually nothing was criticized, although the article author did admit he noticed that the new keyboard was loud (something I first heard with my own ears in a recent YouTube video by Louis Rossmann).  But the author did not expound on that, indicating he didn't mind the louder sound so much.  And yet, when we arrive at the end of the article, having read what seemed to have been a 5 star review, we see it was only given 4 stars.  I wonder what knocked off the 5th star in the mind of the author.
    Price, keyboard noise (travel, he got used to), limitations in performance and graphics/memory - which he puts at intel's door. 
    Understanding why Apple made the choices they made doesn't mean that they aren't inherently compromises, as with any industrial design. 
    williamlondonmacwhat
  • Reply 70 of 95
    I like what Gruber said in his report:

    http://daringfireball.net/2016/11/new_touch_bar_equipped_macbook_pros
    There’s much griping about these machines now, just like there was much griping about the original Air then, but these are exactly the MacBooks I want Apple to be making — ones that show that the company is putting very hard work into every aspect of them. I’d be more worried about Apple’s commitment to the Mac if they did the easy thing — easier both technically and in terms of initial critical response — and just stuck a retina display in a MacBook Air and called it a day.
    Exactly right. And for all these tech writers who just wanted a MBA with Retina display (presumably at the same price as the current MBA's), if that's all Apple did I can guarantee you these same people would be writing stories about how boring Apple is and how much more exciting [insert name here] is.
    williamlondonmacwhat
  • Reply 71 of 95
    dewmedewme Posts: 2,098member
    Eric_WVGG said:
    jdw said:
    I wonder what knocked off the 5th star in the mind of the author.
    Imo, price. MBPs have always been expensive, these just got even pricier when we're used to things getting more affordable over time. 

    Has anyone noticed that when you put a USB A plug next to a USB C, it looks like the bigger plug is about to eat the smaller one
    Re: Imo, price. MBPs have always been expensive, these just got even pricier when we're used to things getting more affordable over time. 

    Stopped by a new car lot lately? 

    Every established PC maker building a decent product these days is bumping up prices to pay for the R&D that goes into designing and building these new generation products. It's not commodity white box junk anymore.
  • Reply 72 of 95
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,969member
    Eric_WVGG said:
    jdw said:
    I wonder what knocked off the 5th star in the mind of the author.
    Imo, price. MBPs have always been expensive, these just got even pricier when we're used to things getting more affordable over time. 
    Except that'a not remotely accurate. Prices have always fluctuated based on what'a included.
  • Reply 73 of 95
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,921member
    Entry price to these Macs is the number one impediment to getting one. Prices fluctuate but Macs have historically been premium priced and Apple's margins have historically been very healthy. 

    Saying that Eric's comment wasn't even remotely accurate is in itself not remotely accurate.

    You can argue that for what you get, for R&D, etc the pricing is valid but takes nothing away from what he said. They were pricey and got pricier. If you factor in currency fluctuations, sales could be even more depressed.

    We will see how sales go but I think they won't meet internal expectations. They miss the sweet spot by more than a little. 

    Black Friday is nearly here. If we see heavy discounts popping up on these machines it might mean something didn't go to plan.
  • Reply 74 of 95
    dacloodacloo Posts: 890member
    kevin kee said:
    jdw said:
    Note that if you log out of your account,
    you'll need to supply a password to log back in; Touch ID only works if your account is active.
    Now that is terribly disappointing.  The real joy of TouchID is to eliminate silly passwords to begin with.  I'd much rather implement a super-strong 19 digit password that I will only need to use as a backup, being able to use TouchID most of the time.  But if I still must type in a password to even access my Mac or login, the present implementation becomes a real kill-joy.
    At any case I don't think this is going to annoy people much seeing that you could log in to your account automatically now with AppleWatch. No entering password required. Wake up your Mac, and tada, it's login in by itself once it's detected your Watch nearby.
    Yeah, like everyone has an Apppe Watch... 
  • Reply 75 of 95
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,764member
    dacloo said:
    kevin kee said:
    jdw said:
    Note that if you log out of your account,
    you'll need to supply a password to log back in; Touch ID only works if your account is active.
    Now that is terribly disappointing.  The real joy of TouchID is to eliminate silly passwords to begin with.  I'd much rather implement a super-strong 19 digit password that I will only need to use as a backup, being able to use TouchID most of the time.  But if I still must type in a password to even access my Mac or login, the present implementation becomes a real kill-joy.
    At any case I don't think this is going to annoy people much seeing that you could log in to your account automatically now with AppleWatch. No entering password required. Wake up your Mac, and tada, it's login in by itself once it's detected your Watch nearby.
    Yeah, like everyone has an Apppe Watch... 
    It doesn't make a difference. I bet the Apple Watch is going to work exactly like Touch ID, and require people to enter passwords at the same points in time. 
  • Reply 76 of 95
    People also forget that the current (Late 2015) iMac is already a transitional machine. It has Skylake architecture, but with legacy ports.

    Next year's iMac won't have those ports. Only Ethernet, which isn't actually legacy. Otherwise, all USB-C. Could still be Skylake.
    iMacs use desktop CPUs. Even though many other components are mobile. 

    So so they won't be skylake. 

    Theyll also be full USB C. 
    The current Mac lineup uses an entry level Broadwell i5, the rest are Skylake (6G Core i5 CPUs), albeit desktop versions vs the mobile chips used in the latest MBPs. 

    Hopefully iMacs will get refreshed with full TB3/USB-C. That could also enable the return of Target Display Mode, so you could use your new 4k/5k iMac screen as an external display for your MBP via a single TB3 cable. TB2/DisplayPort can't do that, and USB-A can't do anything fun.
    Damn, I missed these responses. My last point was that since the Late 2015 iMacs are already Skylake, Apple would not need to do much internally to update the iMacs to TB3/USB-C.

    It won't happen until after the holidays, though. Precisely because the current machines are transitional. These new MBPs are the cutting edge. Despite what some posters here insist, iMacs are not, by and large, "Pro" machines, even though they serve working professionals well in a variety of fields. Apple sells a lot of them to families as well. So the transition of iMacs over to the future of TB3/USB-C will have to wait until the peripherals have caught up, and not just a few expensive ones. Next year? Western Digital is the bellwether here, I think. When there is a My Book and My Passport line with TB3 or "USB 3.1" then everything will be in place. Apple knows when these things are going to be available.
  • Reply 77 of 95
    macxpress said:
    Let the continuous bitching go on about how much this MacBook Pro sucks...Yes, we know it doesn't support 32GB even though you don't need it....
    Well everyone in the my studio right now is running with over 16GB being used (I myself am using 30GB...) so YOU may not needed, but serious pros do... of course your definition of a pro user is a Kardashian or Chinese fashionista... and digital creatives and those writing apps for them aren't "pros" i guess... a niche market... of course that's the base that were Apple's biggest fans... your new power users are style junkies that will flock to the next shinny brand at the drop of a hat.

    We're planning out a migration now to PCs (and are lamenting it... I've been an Apple fan boy since the first West Coast computer faire and Woz was a mentor to my electronics club in high school)... In this studio it represents about 100k of lost upgrade  revenue... nothing for Apple and the fashionistas will more than make up for it today... but when they decide that some other brand is cool they'll be gone and the real pro, power user base will have moved to machines that have a product range that can support their needs.

    You need to feed your base... Apple should learn from the 2016 election that arrogance and complacency can bite even a "sure thing" lead in the butt.

    And a $300 coffee table book just reinforces this whole nonsense... I was inside AAPL during the Sculley era and as depressing as it was to go through, this direction feels even worse for the long term
    avon b7
  • Reply 78 of 95
    nhtnht Posts: 4,487member
    luvappl said:
    macxpress said:
    Let the continuous bitching go on about how much this MacBook Pro sucks...Yes, we know it doesn't support 32GB even though you don't need it....
    Well everyone in the my studio right now is running with over 16GB being used (I myself am using 30GB...) so YOU may not needed, but serious pros do... of course your definition of a pro user is a Kardashian or Chinese fashionista... and digital creatives and those writing apps for them aren't "pros" i guess... a niche market... of course that's the base that were Apple's biggest fans... your new power users are style junkies that will flock to the next shinny brand at the drop of a hat.

    We're planning out a migration now to PCs (and are lamenting it... I've been an Apple fan boy since the first West Coast computer faire and Woz was a mentor to my electronics club in high school)... In this studio it represents about 100k of lost upgrade  revenue... nothing for Apple and the fashionistas will more than make up for it today... but when they decide that some other brand is cool they'll be gone and the real pro, power user base will have moved to machines that have a product range that can support their needs.
    If you are using 30GB RAM today you aren't on a MBP so no big deal unless you need to do your work in the field.  Which meant 16GB anyway.

    If your studio is transitioning to windows only from Mac just before the next desktop cycle that's silly.  A new Mac Pro and iMac could change the equation in a significant way.

    Hire an extra IT gal.  You're going to need her.  Wanna bet that recurring cost eats any cost savings?
  • Reply 79 of 95
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,510member
    luvappl said:
    macxpress said:
    Let the continuous bitching go on about how much this MacBook Pro sucks...Yes, we know it doesn't support 32GB even though you don't need it....
    Well everyone in the my studio right now is running with over 16GB being used (I myself am using 30GB...) so YOU may not needed, but serious pros do... of course your definition of a pro user is a Kardashian or Chinese fashionista... and digital creatives and those writing apps for them aren't "pros" i guess... a niche market... of course that's the base that were Apple's biggest fans... your new power users are style junkies that will flock to the next shinny brand at the drop of a hat.

    We're planning out a migration now to PCs (and are lamenting it... I've been an Apple fan boy since the first West Coast computer faire and Woz was a mentor to my electronics club in high school)... In this studio it represents about 100k of lost upgrade  revenue... nothing for Apple and the fashionistas will more than make up for it today... but when they decide that some other brand is cool they'll be gone and the real pro, power user base will have moved to machines that have a product range that can support their needs.

    You need to feed your base... Apple should learn from the 2016 election that arrogance and complacency can bite even a "sure thing" lead in the butt.

    And a $300 coffee table book just reinforces this whole nonsense... I was inside AAPL during the Sculley era and as depressing as it was to go through, this direction feels even worse for the long term
    The paid-troll market is still thriving, I see. Don't forget, it's "shiny," not "shinny." Can't troll without that word.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 80 of 95
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,764member
    If you've got 32 GB installed, one would HOPE that your apps and system are using all of it. Free RAM is wasted RAM. 
    Looking at how much RAM is being used is a completely useless indicator for gauging how much RAM is NEEDED. 

    Run your stuff in 16 GB and take a look at how much memory is being paged out to disk to get a real idea of what you actually need. 

    Since Mavericks, my pageouts are pretty consistently zero, in a production environment (16GB RAM). Before Mavericks, I had up to 15 or 20 GB of pageouts on extremely demanding projects. 
    Soli
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