I wouldn't expect the fanboys here to agree with me, but I agree with the DA. Maybe when we have another 9/11 or someone kills tens of thousands in an attack people will change their mind. For now, the least apple can do is take the encrypted chat apps off of the App Store.
I have a feeling apple will start to be comfortable with backdoors in their software after China forces it on them. The Chinese just passed legislation forcing tech companies to assist in investigations. The time is coming people....just a matter of when. If you think western govts. are going to sit back and let Silicon Valley call the shots in the face of increasing threats, you're mistaken. Without govt having access to data from cellphones you risk them enacting draconian measures like banning all Muslim immigration, etc.
I wouldn't expect the fanboys here to agree with me, but I agree with the DA. Maybe when we have another 9/11 or someone kills tens of thousands in an attack people will change their mind. For now, the least apple can do is take the encrypted chat apps off of the App Store.
I have a feeling apple will start to be comfortable with backdoors in their software after China forces it on them. The Chinese just passed legislation forcing tech companies to assist in investigations. The time is coming people....just a matter of when. If you think western govts. are going to sit back and let Silicon Valley call the shots in the face of increasing threats, you're mistaken. Without govt having access to data from cellphones you risk them enacting draconian measures like banning all Muslim immigration, etc.
The idiots at the FBI, and the CIA had all the information to stop 9/11 and failed to do so. I'd prefer a world that keeps my data out of their hands and anyone else.
The idiots at the FBI, and the CIA had all the information to stop 9/11 and failed to do so. I'd prefer a world that keeps my data out of their hands and anyone else.
That was 15 years ago. Back then many people didn't even have internet. Apples and oranges.
Oh boo hoo! So lets make a phone that gives access to the entire world and create a massive security hole in the OS just so a couple hundred phones can be cracked open for the "maybe" that it has something for their case. Yeah...thats real good thinking! You can't have it both ways. Its either open, or closed.
I know "Drugs" is a generic term, but if just for marijuana cases if we'd just stop being stupid and putting people in jail for things like this you could maybe eliminate a large portion of those cases. We don't need to be filling our jails because someone is using marijuana.
Oh Boo Hoo you will be the first crying snowflake when a terrorist takes out a plane your family is on.
What's rarely brought up in these discussions is an issue that's far more important than customers' privacy, or the FBI/DA's ridiculous allegations that Apple is protecting child molesters and terrorists. The bigger issue is security and safety, both personal and public. Think about it: our digital lives are increasingly intermingling with our physical lives. There are already apps and devices that allow us to use our iPhones or Watches to lock or open our homes, adjust the thermostat, access our medical records, track our patterns and habits, as well as our health. If the rumors are true that Apple is working on a self-driving car, then the security enclave paradigm is even more important, for public safety. Apple knows this, which is why they've been so resistant to government attempts to get in the back door. Apple knew that the moment that someone (government, hackers, terrorists, etc.) learns of a backdoor, they'll do whatever they can exploit it. Imagine hackers taking over your self-driving car while you're on the highway? Imagine police or other government agents using the exploit to randomly search anyone they want, without a warrant? Imagine insurance companies hacking your health information to decide whether or not to give you coverage? Imagine someone getting into your ApplePay account, and hence all your bank info? Apple has imagined all these scenarios, and their answer to the risk of someone exploiting a back door is to simply not build one. On FBI/DA's side, once a suspect is charged, they can be legally compelled to give access to their iPhone, iPad, etc., with a court order. If they refuse, then they'd be in contempt of the order; just one more offense added to their original charge. A person's phone and computer should be treated like a person's home. The government cannot enter and search it, without a person's permission, or without a court-issued warrant (or at least it used to be this way, before the PATRIOT Act came along; now, it seems the government can more or less cherry-pick which individual rights they respect and which they do not). Sure, some people are using Apple's secure paradigm to hide nefarious stuff, but what the government is doing is treating everyone like criminals; what's more, they're willing to risk personal and public safety and security, in the effort to track or gather evidence on a proportionately tiny number of "bad guys", and that goes against the very principle of a modern, democratic society.
I wouldn't expect the fanboys here to agree with me, but I agree with the DA. Maybe when we have another 9/11 or someone kills tens of thousands in an attack people will change their mind. For now, the least apple can do is take the encrypted chat apps off of the App Store.
I have a feeling apple will start to be comfortable with backdoors in their software after China forces it on them. The Chinese just passed legislation forcing tech companies to assist in investigations. The time is coming people....just a matter of when. If you think western govts. are going to sit back and let Silicon Valley call the shots in the face of increasing threats, you're mistaken. Without govt having access to data from cellphones you risk them enacting draconian measures like banning all Muslim immigration, etc.
Which begs the question, how many unlockable Android phones are they holding? None?
There is no need to crack most Android phones apparently. Almost all of their information has been shared publicly or all of the phones come with a backdoor.
Google Play has hundreds of Android apps that contain malware
One of the more successful malware-ridden apps on Google Play is a GTA 5 Mod for Minecraft: Pocket Edition, which the Play Store shows as having been downloaded between 100,000 and 500,000 times.
Security firm Kryptowire recently discovered a backdoor in some budget Android phones that secretly sends information like text messages, location data, and call logs to a server in China.
I don't have a problem with govt access. I think it's quite ironic that people put their whole lives on fb, ig, twitter, linkedin but then when the govt wants the info they freak out. Weird
Just wait for the "Waterboarder-or-Worser-in-Chief" to get into office. I think he will be likely to push or pull a bill thru Congress so fast it will make your civil rights spin.
You realize the outgoing president has literally murdered american teenagers? With drones?
Anyway, by my count %43 of these phones are being held for investigations of non-crimes (drugs, weapons) or crimes where there isn't compelling reason to unlock them (assault, robbery) ..... so the privacy implications are that Apple's n the right side of morality.
Don't rely on your thumbprint at all if your issue is avoiding access to your smartphone by law enforcement. You can be compelled to use your fingerprint to unlock it, legally and lawfully.
No you can't. Court orders compelling you to give up your thumbprint are both illegal and unlawful, and in fact, a felony if enforced by someone who is armed (and most court lackeys are armed) under USC 18-242.
Lets not pretend like these criminal scumbags in our government are at all legitimate.
I wouldn't expect the fanboys here to agree with me, but I agree with the DA. Maybe when we have another 9/11 or someone kills tens of thousands in an attack people will change their mind. For now, the least apple can do is take the encrypted chat apps off of the App Store.
I have a feeling apple will start to be comfortable with backdoors in their software after China forces it on them. The Chinese just passed legislation forcing tech companies to assist in investigations. The time is coming people....just a matter of when. If you think western govts. are going to sit back and let Silicon Valley call the shots in the face of increasing threats, you're mistaken. Without govt having access to data from cellphones you risk them enacting draconian measures like banning all Muslim immigration, etc.
So essentially you're saying "let's all give up our rights now or else when things get really bad, the government will take away even more rights from us."
The only reason the government can pass the kinds of laws you're describing in the wake of a terrorist attack would be because we as a people put them in power. If we fall prey to irrational thinking, what you're describing will happen. Since Apple stopped keeping encryption keys, Comey and other LEOs stepped up to the podium to bash Apple. They tried to paint Apple as the friend of "terrorists, rapists, child pornographers, and any other abhorrent type of criminal." The pie chart we're seeing here paints the exact opposite picture. Of the 400+ iPhones that the DA's office can't crack, more than 60% are tied to drug crimes and cybercrime, neither of which fit the FUD that Comey and other LEOs tried to spread. What does that tell you?
So essentially you're saying "let's all give up our rights now or else when things get really bad, the government will take away even more rights from us."
The only reason the government can pass the kinds of laws you're describing in the wake of a terrorist attack would be because we as a people put them in power. If we fall prey to irrational thinking, what you're describing will happen. Since Apple stopped keeping encryption keys, Comey and other LEOs stepped up to the podium to bash Apple. They tried to paint Apple as the friend of "terrorists, rapists, child pornographers, and any other abhorrent type of criminal." The pie chart we're seeing here paints the exact opposite picture. Of the 400+ iPhones that the DA's office can't crack, more than 60% are tied to drug crimes and cybercrime, neither of which fit the FUD that Comey and other LEOs tried to spread. What does that tell you?
Since when do people act rationally predictably? The whole point of this is to be proactive and not reactive. I agree that for most of the crimes you list we shouldn't go all out fighting to unlock them but for terrorism, things are different. I personally would be ok with giving up some some electronic data if it could prevent deaths and or limit broad draconian measures from effecting broad swaths of our population (muslims).
So essentially you're saying "let's all give up our rights now or else when things get really bad, the government will take away even more rights from us."
The only reason the government can pass the kinds of laws you're describing in the wake of a terrorist attack would be because we as a people put them in power. If we fall prey to irrational thinking, what you're describing will happen. Since Apple stopped keeping encryption keys, Comey and other LEOs stepped up to the podium to bash Apple. They tried to paint Apple as the friend of "terrorists, rapists, child pornographers, and any other abhorrent type of criminal." The pie chart we're seeing here paints the exact opposite picture. Of the 400+ iPhones that the DA's office can't crack, more than 60% are tied to drug crimes and cybercrime, neither of which fit the FUD that Comey and other LEOs tried to spread. What does that tell you?
Since when do people act rationally predictably? The whole point of this is to be proactive and not reactive. I agree that for most of the crimes you list we shouldn't go all out fighting to unlock them but for terrorism, things are different. I personally would be ok with giving up some some electronic data if it could prevent deaths and or limit broad draconian measures from effecting broad swaths of our population (muslims).
What do you view the government as-some all powerful entity that can do whatever it wants? The government is only as powerful as we the people are willing to make it. The government will get away with passing those draconian measures only if we keep such people in power.
You say that the point of this is to be "proactive and not reactive," then let's educate ourselves. Throughout history, governments have used the specter of war or attack from outside to frighten the populace into giving up its rights. The FBI's tactics are no different. The counter to that is for us to see through the rhetoric spewed by Comey and other LEOs. In every investigation of a terror attack in the US, it has never been determine that the government could have foiled the plot if it had more intel. Even 9/11 wasn't chalked up to insufficient intel. On the contrary, the government had tons of intel. It just couldn't act on it properly.
If you want to hand over your data, be my guest. I'm not going to.
Comments
I have a feeling apple will start to be comfortable with backdoors in their software after China forces it on them. The Chinese just passed legislation forcing tech companies to assist in investigations. The time is coming people....just a matter of when. If you think western govts. are going to sit back and let Silicon Valley call the shots in the face of increasing threats, you're mistaken. Without govt having access to data from cellphones you risk them enacting draconian measures like banning all Muslim immigration, etc.
Think about it: our digital lives are increasingly intermingling with our physical lives. There are already apps and devices that allow us to use our iPhones or Watches to lock or open our homes, adjust the thermostat, access our medical records, track our patterns and habits, as well as our health. If the rumors are true that Apple is working on a self-driving car, then the security enclave paradigm is even more important, for public safety. Apple knows this, which is why they've been so resistant to government attempts to get in the back door. Apple knew that the moment that someone (government, hackers, terrorists, etc.) learns of a backdoor, they'll do whatever they can exploit it.
Imagine hackers taking over your self-driving car while you're on the highway? Imagine police or other government agents using the exploit to randomly search anyone they want, without a warrant? Imagine insurance companies hacking your health information to decide whether or not to give you coverage? Imagine someone getting into your ApplePay account, and hence all your bank info? Apple has imagined all these scenarios, and their answer to the risk of someone exploiting a back door is to simply not build one.
On FBI/DA's side, once a suspect is charged, they can be legally compelled to give access to their iPhone, iPad, etc., with a court order. If they refuse, then they'd be in contempt of the order; just one more offense added to their original charge. A person's phone and computer should be treated like a person's home. The government cannot enter and search it, without a person's permission, or without a court-issued warrant (or at least it used to be this way, before the PATRIOT Act came along; now, it seems the government can more or less cherry-pick which individual rights they respect and which they do not).
Sure, some people are using Apple's secure paradigm to hide nefarious stuff, but what the government is doing is treating everyone like criminals; what's more, they're willing to risk personal and public safety and security, in the effort to track or gather evidence on a proportionately tiny number of "bad guys", and that goes against the very principle of a modern, democratic society.
Baby...bath water??
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Anyway, by my count %43 of these phones are being held for investigations of non-crimes (drugs, weapons) or crimes where there isn't compelling reason to unlock them (assault, robbery) ..... so the privacy implications are that Apple's n the right side of morality.
Lets not pretend like these criminal scumbags in our government are at all legitimate.
The only reason the government can pass the kinds of laws you're describing in the wake of a terrorist attack would be because we as a people put them in power. If we fall prey to irrational thinking, what you're describing will happen. Since Apple stopped keeping encryption keys, Comey and other LEOs stepped up to the podium to bash Apple. They tried to paint Apple as the friend of "terrorists, rapists, child pornographers, and any other abhorrent type of criminal." The pie chart we're seeing here paints the exact opposite picture. Of the 400+ iPhones that the DA's office can't crack, more than 60% are tied to drug crimes and cybercrime, neither of which fit the FUD that Comey and other LEOs tried to spread. What does that tell you?
You say that the point of this is to be "proactive and not reactive," then let's educate ourselves. Throughout history, governments have used the specter of war or attack from outside to frighten the populace into giving up its rights. The FBI's tactics are no different. The counter to that is for us to see through the rhetoric spewed by Comey and other LEOs. In every investigation of a terror attack in the US, it has never been determine that the government could have foiled the plot if it had more intel. Even 9/11 wasn't chalked up to insufficient intel. On the contrary, the government had tons of intel. It just couldn't act on it properly.
If you want to hand over your data, be my guest. I'm not going to.