Circulating five-second video causes Apple iPhones to freeze

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 36
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,388member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    slurpy said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Wow. A video that forces you to reboot your phone if you play it? Sounds dangerous. Apple doom! /s


    ... Or a mild inconvenience at best. I can tell you about several other glitches that have plagued my
    iphones over the years, including my current 6s, that are as inconvenient, if not more so than this. They aren't "perfect" and yes you're going to have to reboot them because ... glitches. 

    Next time details about the video video might be helpful so we can inform our less tech savy friends what to look out for. But for the record you didn't even include the detail from the verge article that mentions you have to receive it as a link rather than as an actual video file attachement. 


    Well, the glitch itself is an inconvenience, but what it may tell us about Apple's testing procedures could be a bit more worrying. 
    No, it doesn't tell us anything about their testing procedures. You cannot test for the literally billions of variables when it comes to code. Whatever is happening with this video is obviously rare, since it has never happened before even with tens of millions of users, and obviously it will get resolved with an update ASAP. 

    Exactly. Further, Apple will issue a fix and the issue will be dealt with. If you were on Android, 80% of users would NEVER get a fix with the rest waiting 30 days (best case for a Nexus/Pixel) to many months.

    People all over are blowing this out of proportion. Probably Android users who are still susceptible to Stagefright from last year, which is far more serious but uses a similar attack vector.
    Stagefright? LOL. Yeah, that one certainly has impacted a whole lot of users. How many was that again? Perhaps zero? While I agree with you that the iPhone video glitch is a complete non-issue, yelling "OMG Stagefright!" is too. It's right up there with iOS Xcode Ghost, another "OMG" blown all out of proportion ( tho that one actually did cause harm to a very few users didn't it, unlike Stagefright?)

    Zero? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
    Waiting for your report of any Android phones in the wild harmed by Stagefright. Even one of the Billions out there. I stand behind zero. Will you stand behind your apparent stand that more folks suffered harm from Stagefright than from Xcode Ghost? Consider yourself challenged.  Personally I doubt you're up to it. 

    But I'll also side with a tiny part of your otherwise silly (prove zero? Mr Spock you are not) unsupported post. Android may never be as locked down as iOS.


    You claimed zero, the burden of proof is on you. Or are you going to continue with your usual circular logic?

    The whole idea of malware is to get access to a device WITHOUT THE USER KNOWING. Sort of like all those millions of cheap IoT cameras used to perform a DDoS attack. You think any of those users knew what was going on? It's been this way since the first viruses appeared. You can't do any harm, collect data, send premium MMS or other nefarious things if the users gets a warning on their screen "Thank you for updating to Malware 2.0, enjoy your new software."

    Then again, I think you are right. There's no threat from Stagefright, which is why those billions of Android devices haven;t been patched. There's no need to patch a non-existent threat, is there? Must be why Google dragged their feet on this too. They knew it wasn't an issue.
    Ah, very good use of the "prove unicorns don't exist" argument. ROTFL

    Can't say you aren't correct with the latter part of your post tho and that could be it. Mostly FUD in the blogosphere stories with more bluster than muscle in Stagefright? With zero reports (fact) of any in the wild harm it sure looks that way. Old devices prior to Marshmallow or old devices that never received at least the Sept/2015 security patch if not an OS update would still be technically susceptible. That's probably several million wouldn't you say, but with nary a single report of harm so far well over a year later. Yup silly to scream "OMG...Stagefright!" just as it's silly to scream "OMG, video!". The video spoof doesn't do anything but lock up a phone and require a reboot. Xcode Ghost infected a selection of App Store apps and did infect some user devices but was generally seen only in China.  Stagefright isn't too different in affecting users . . . except that. . . Well what has it done to users phones?

    IMHO there's other security issues with Android that deserve more airplay than Stagefright which you've apparently only very recently learned isn't as fearful as you've been saying. At least I prompted you to look and find out there's no fire behind the artificial smoke. If you had been able to find anything, anything at all, you would have mentioned it when challenged. 
    edited November 2016
  • Reply 22 of 36
    Apple will issue a fix and the issue will be dealt with. If you were on Android, 80% of users would NEVER get a fix with the rest waiting 30 days (best case for a Nexus/Pixel) to many months.
  • Reply 23 of 36
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,626member
    StageFright directly affected millions of t-mobile users here in Germany, regardless of platform. For weeks, I was unable to send or receive MMS, as the service was blocked for security reasons.
  • Reply 24 of 36
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,901member
    slurpy said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Wow. A video that forces you to reboot your phone if you play it? Sounds dangerous. Apple doom! /s


    ... Or a mild inconvenience at best. I can tell you about several other glitches that have plagued my
    iphones over the years, including my current 6s, that are as inconvenient, if not more so than this. They aren't "perfect" and yes you're going to have to reboot them because ... glitches. 

    Next time details about the video video might be helpful so we can inform our less tech savy friends what to look out for. But for the record you didn't even include the detail from the verge article that mentions you have to receive it as a link rather than as an actual video file attachement. 


    Well, the glitch itself is an inconvenience, but what it may tell us about Apple's testing procedures could be a bit more worrying. 
    No, it doesn't tell us anything about their testing procedures. You cannot test for the literally billions of variables when it comes to code. Whatever is happening with this video is obviously rare, since it has never happened before even with tens of millions of users, and obviously it will get resolved with an update ASAP. 
    A video file shouldn't bring the system to a halt. Billions of variables or not. I think that was the idea of the OP. Crash or freeze the player but not the entire system.
  • Reply 25 of 36
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,626member
    Of course it shouldn't. 

    The definition of a bug is something that shouldn't happen. 

    Duh. 
    avon b7
  • Reply 26 of 36
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,901member
    spheric said:
    Of course it shouldn't. 

    The definition of a bug is something that shouldn't happen. 

    Duh. 
    Duh!?

    If you are replying to me, please read the quote I included. The issue was testing procedures, variables etc, not bugs. Of course it's a bug!

    Are we talking about alpha software here? NO. This bug should never have reached userland. 
  • Reply 27 of 36
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,626member
    avon b7 said:
    spheric said:
    Of course it shouldn't. 

    The definition of a bug is something that shouldn't happen. 

    Duh. 
    Duh!?

    If you are replying to me, please read the quote I included. The issue was testing procedures, variables etc, not bugs. Of course it's a bug!

    Are we talking about alpha software here? NO. This bug should never have reached userland. 
    That, too, is part of the definition of a bug. Userland, however, is the real world, and not the Lala World of armchair software engineers and imaginary project managers.
  • Reply 28 of 36
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    avon b7 said:
    spheric said:
    Of course it shouldn't. 

    The definition of a bug is something that shouldn't happen. 

    Duh. 
    Duh!?

    If you are replying to me, please read the quote I included. The issue was testing procedures, variables etc, not bugs. Of course it's a bug!

    Are we talking about alpha software here? NO. This bug should never have reached userland. 
    Bullshit.  You have no clue as to the complexities of software development or testing.  NASA and ESA tests the hell out of flight software and there are still bugs.  Some leading to mission failures or require significant recovery efforts and reduced capability. 

    Apple, Google and Microsoft have best in class  testing for consumer software for their operating systems.  Only flight and health critical systems have more rigorous testing.

    More trollish nonesense from you.

    Oh, and don't use words you don't know the meaning of like "userland" to try to sound smart.  Userland is software not in the kernel.  Not release software.

    For all we know it could be a kernel bug which would mean the bug isn't in the userland at all.
    edited November 2016
  • Reply 29 of 36
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,901member
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    spheric said:
    Of course it shouldn't. 

    The definition of a bug is something that shouldn't happen. 

    Duh. 
    Duh!?

    If you are replying to me, please read the quote I included. The issue was testing procedures, variables etc, not bugs. Of course it's a bug!

    Are we talking about alpha software here? NO. This bug should never have reached userland. 
    Bullshit.  You have no clue as to the complexities of software development or testing.  NASA and ESA tests the hell out of flight software and there are still bugs.  Some leading to mission failures or require significant recovery efforts and reduced capability. 

    Apple, Google and Microsoft have best in class  testing for consumer software for their operating systems.  Only flight and health critical systems have more rigorous testing.

    More trollish nonesense from you.

    Oh, and don't use words you don't know the meaning of like "userland" to try to sound smart.  Userland is software not in the kernel.  Not release software.

    For all we know it could be a kernel bug which would mean the bug isn't in the userland at all.
    Please stop! I couldn't stop laughing at what you are saying. 'Best in Class'? Until recently, Apple didnt even believe in public beta testing! There is no substitute for public beta testing in consumer software. Public beta testing detects bugs that improve the overall polish of software but the big bugs should already be under control before it gets to public beta. Over the years we have seen 'best in class' user data loss due to Apple putting out software that hadn't even passed minimal testing. Ah, and we know why. Marketing deadlines. Apple has put out software that isn't ready for prime time, again and again. It has even let simple script errors out the door that give users headaches. 'Best in class' but when the marketing deadline hits, you get a 'we're releasing it, ready or not', we'll squash those bugs in a point release. The problem is that that relates to known bugs and all too often other nasties get dumped on users. What use is 'best in class' testing if the product isnt even given the time it needs? And before you pony up some drivel along the lines of but if you test it to hell you will never release the software, bla, bla bla, think, and put this issue into context.

    Of course 'best in class' could mean just about anything. Not definable by any measure although it is a pretty label and saying the health and flight software have more rigorous testing is just stating the obvious but basically irrevelant in the case of a video file that halts the system, don't you think?

    Nobody is saying that software shouldn't/can't have bugs. Give it a break! 

    A video file should not stall, freeze or crash the system. Much less with best in class testing. LOL.

    'userland'. Yeah! This bug is set in motion by playing a video file. As far as I know the kernel is off limits to users, so this bug is due to some chain reaction that has its origin outside the kernel. It might reach the kernel or not.  Of course, it could be voodoo too! 
    edited November 2016
  • Reply 30 of 36
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,901member

    spheric said:
    avon b7 said:
    spheric said:
    Of course it shouldn't. 

    The definition of a bug is something that shouldn't happen. 

    Duh. 
    Duh!?

    If you are replying to me, please read the quote I included. The issue was testing procedures, variables etc, not bugs. Of course it's a bug!

    Are we talking about alpha software here? NO. This bug should never have reached userland. 
    That, too, is part of the definition of a bug. Userland, however, is the real world, and not the Lala World of armchair software engineers and imaginary project managers.
    Apple could easily release software that leads to user data loss. Yes. It would be a BUG! But you know, it shouldn't happen! Much less with Apple's best in class testing LOL.

    Hang on! 'User data loss' and due to script errors'? Yes, script errors! Not detected in testing? Best in class testing? ...

    Should I mention iOS updates bricking devices? Can someone actually give me a definition of 'best in class' testing?

    Are we talking about one-off instances or about problems that happen perhaps too often for a company with best in class testing?





  • Reply 31 of 36
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,626member
    Keep track of whom you're arguing with, buster.
     I never said anything about "best in class".

    Public beta testing, though, is far from panacea, and I'd think that Apple ignores pretty much all "public" feedback, going only by the usual developer feedback, and only does it for publicity reasons (made possible by the fact that OS updates are now free).

    Incidentally, I well remember an iTunes update completely erasing all attached external drives with a " " (space) in their name. This was well within the Jobs era. Yeah, data loss. A bug. Shouldn't have happened. So?
    edited November 2016
  • Reply 32 of 36
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,901member
    spheric said:
    Keep track of whom you're arguing with, buster.
     I never said anything about "best in class".

    Public beta testing, though, is far from panacea, and I'd think that Apple ignores pretty much all "public" feedback, going only by the usual developer feedback, and only does it for publicity reasons (made possible by the fact that OS updates are now free).

    Incidentally, I well remember an iTunes update completely erasing all attached external drives with a " " (space) in their name. This was well within the Jobs era. Yeah, data loss. A bug. Shouldn't have happened. So?
    Don't worry spheric, it was a little playful dig but not aimed at you. It just popped up in the message to you.

    as for public betas, the information is valid and I doubt it is ignored, but as with all 'against the clock' testing (which is basically what Apple does when it gets to public beta stage), bugs have to be given priorities and obviously the smallest ones are put on the back burner.

    The biggies should not make it into public testing without at least being identified. Some obviously do but they shouldn't. 
  • Reply 33 of 36
    TomETomE Posts: 172member
    Well, I have a friend who has an older 30 pin connector iPad and he has had a problem.  It went Black when he was on WikiLeaks and linked to an article about Hillary Clinton.  That was how he described what happened.  I have never seen anything like this.   the iPad 30 Pin is Black and we cannot seem to get it back.  It is possible to try to reboot it and get an Apple on Screen, only to have it go black again before it is finished rebooting.  It is fully charged.  First Time I have experienced anything like this.  I cannot imagine what he was linking off WikiLeaks to , but he describes it that way.

    Any real ideas as to how he can repair this without taking this old iPad to the Shop?  It is not worth much to him, but it is all he has.

  • Reply 34 of 36
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,626member
    Restore it through iTunes. 
  • Reply 35 of 36
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    avon b7 said:
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    spheric said:
    Of course it shouldn't. 

    The definition of a bug is something that shouldn't happen. 

    Duh. 
    Duh!?

    If you are replying to me, please read the quote I included. The issue was testing procedures, variables etc, not bugs. Of course it's a bug!

    Are we talking about alpha software here? NO. This bug should never have reached userland. 
    Bullshit.  You have no clue as to the complexities of software development or testing.  NASA and ESA tests the hell out of flight software and there are still bugs.  Some leading to mission failures or require significant recovery efforts and reduced capability. 

    Apple, Google and Microsoft have best in class  testing for consumer software for their operating systems.  Only flight and health critical systems have more rigorous testing.

    More trollish nonesense from you.

    Oh, and don't use words you don't know the meaning of like "userland" to try to sound smart.  Userland is software not in the kernel.  Not release software.

    For all we know it could be a kernel bug which would mean the bug isn't in the userland at all.
    Please stop! I couldn't stop laughing at what you are saying. 'Best in Class'? Until recently, Apple didnt even believe in public beta testing! There is no substitute for public beta testing in consumer software. Public beta testing detects bugs that improve the overall polish of software but the big bugs should already be under control before it gets to public beta. Over the years we have seen 'best in class' user data loss due to Apple putting out software that hadn't even passed minimal testing. Ah, and we know why. Marketing deadlines. Apple has put out software that isn't ready for prime time, again and again. It has even let simple script errors out the door that give users headaches. 'Best in class' but when the marketing deadline hits, you get a 'we're releasing it, ready or not', we'll squash those bugs in a point release. The problem is that that relates to known bugs and all too often other nasties get dumped on users. What use is 'best in class' testing if the product isnt even given the time it needs? And before you pony up some drivel along the lines of but if you test it to hell you will never release the software, bla, bla bla, think, and put this issue into context.

    Of course 'best in class' could mean just about anything. Not definable by any measure although it is a pretty label and saying the health and flight software have more rigorous testing is just stating the obvious but basically irrevelant in the case of a video file that halts the system, don't you think?

    Nobody is saying that software shouldn't/can't have bugs. Give it a break! 

    A video file should not stall, freeze or crash the system. Much less with best in class testing. LOL.

    'userland'. Yeah! This bug is set in motion by playing a video file. As far as I know the kernel is off limits to users, so this bug is due to some chain reaction that has its origin outside the kernel. It might reach the kernel or not.  Of course, it could be voodoo too! 
    Industry average is 15-50 errors per 1000 delivered lines of code.  Microsoft had about 10-20 defects per 1000 delivered lines of code (McConnel)*.  Defect density isn't linear but a quadratic (Brooks)* so the large software systems built by Microsoft, Google and Apple are highly complex and interdependent.  Defect rates should be much higher than industry average (because most software is smaller) but are in fact lower.

    Apple has done developer previews for a long time.  Given the number of developers this constitutes a "high volume beta test" (> 1000 users) in terms of user testing to find defects.  iOS previews are pretty well wrung out that additional general user testing reveals a smaller percentage of defects.  iOS devs tend to do a good deal of testing to make sure their own apps are ready for the new OS. 

    Given that public beta testing does exist at Apple, and this defect wasn't caught by beta testing, the point regarding beta testing is moot.

    Userland refers specifically to specific types of programs, not a state of reaching the user as you seem to think.  This could be a kernel bug where the userland program (i.e. the video player) calls a kernel function that has a bug.  But you don't know that because you have no clue what you are bloviating about.

    So laugh it up...you got nothing right in that post.

    * Some folks may quibble about the age of the metrics but one of my advisors was really into defect measurements and found that as computer language technology moved on we kept creating defects at around the same rate.  Given the higher levels of abstraction and massive increase in code reuse (aka standard libraries) in more modern languages the defect rates were declining as a function of work performed but not in terms of software size/complexity.  A developer that was likely to make a mistake in a hundred lines of Fortran was just as likely to make a mistake in a hundred lines of Java and presumably a hundred lines of Swift or JavaScript.
    spheric
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