Review: Apple's 13" MacBook Pro with Touch Bar

24

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 80
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    spheric said:
    But Kaby Lake won't bring any significant advances- except maybe DisplayPort 1.3.
    Kaby Lake being the 7th generation Core processor and the 2nd Tock of their new Tick-Tock-Tock* model will bring further optimizations, but more importantly is what it will bring to the 2nd MPBwTB. I wouldn't be surrpised to see a $200 price drop, just like with the Retina MBP, which had a $400 premium when it introduced an IPS panel with LED backlight, 4x the number of pixels, as well as many other display advancements as well as innumerable advancement to the MBP design in the new chassis.

    It's slated to see better performance, lower power usage, less heat dissipation, more efficient UHD en/coding, and many other minor things many people enjoy but don't really think about. Since Apple isn't an OEM that only thinks as far as their next quarterly earnings we can assume this new chassis design was built for ≈5 years. I've read that Apple has under clocked their Skylake CPUs due to the chassis restraints which means that Kaby Lake will be able to be an even better jump in performance for MBP users as opposed to just comparing the theoretical Intel numbers.

    But perhaps the biggest gain is the battery life for Kaby Lake, especially when watching or editing 4K video.


    * Tick-Tock-Tock roughly equates to a Process/Node, Architecture, and then Optimization.
    pscooter63
  • Reply 22 of 80
    "But you should know that if you're the type of person who shuts down your computer on a daily basis, you'll still be required to enter your password every time you reboot, negating at least some of the convenience of Touch ID."

    What type of person is that?  Do they exist?  Ever since Apple made it so sleep was close to "free" in terms of battery drain, I've stopped shutting down except when taking something apart.  And besides, shutting down and rebooting is so much slower than sleep/wake, why would such a person care about having to enter their password?
    daekwan said:
    I dont know any MacBook user who shuts down their notebook, instead of just closing the lid and opening it again when they need to use it later.

    I always shut down my Mac before stuffing it in my bag to change locations. It doesn't seem like a good idea to leave power applied to something that's being hauled around.
    baconstangpscooter63bdkennedy1002
  • Reply 23 of 80
    adrayven said:
    I really, really want the 15" maxed out, but I'm opting to hold out until Feb/March to see if they do any price drops.. They usually do a small drop in the 6-12 month mark after a major release like this. They did it for new MacBook Air, Retina MacBook, and even the new MacBook, which has seen a price drop twice now.

    Assuming that's the case (I haven't kept track of pricing), how much are you going to save? Contrast that against the 6-12 months you estimate the wait to be. That's six to twelve months during which you could be using the new machine. The extra money buys you extra time with the machine. How much is that worth?
    edited November 2016 baconstangwatto_cobraadmiral.ashik
  • Reply 24 of 80
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,053member
    See you in June for $1200- refurbished! 
  • Reply 25 of 80
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    I always shut down my Mac before stuffing it in my bag to change locations. It doesn't seem like a good idea to leave power applied to something that's being hauled around.
    1) Define changing locations.

    2) Why don't you think it's a good idea when there has been so much effort put into reducing the power draw when it's not in use, especially with the lid closed. Do you also shutdown your iPhone or iPad when you're going to changing locations because "it doesn't seem like a good idea to leave power applied to something that's being hauled around"?
    chabigRayz2016sphericStrangeDaysadmiral.ashik
  • Reply 26 of 80
    appex said:
    Summary of pros and cons would be much useful. "The reversible USB-C ports also feature integrated support for Thunderbolt 3". Not really it is the other way round: The reversible Thunderbolt 3 ports also feature integrated support for USB-C. Get the facts! TO ADMINS: carriage returns are deleted here when using Safari on Mac. I have reported that many times in the past to no avail. No problem on other sites.
    Actually, this is a USB-C port with Thunderbolt 3, not the other way around. 
    chabigadmiral.ashik
  • Reply 27 of 80
    xixo said:
    dcgoo said:
    What? ...not a word about the massively fast SSD?  I came from an early 2013 MBP, the storage performance is incredible! 
    nor a word about the total lack of upgradability of the SSD, or general lack of serviceability / repairability
    https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Touch+Bar+Teardown/73480

    if there turn out to be engineering errors, great sadness will ensue
    https://www.google.com/search?q=mbp+2011+gpu+failure&ie=UTF-8

    consumer value: one star
    shareholder value: five stars
    Shareholder value 2 stars. Consumer value 3 stars. 
  • Reply 28 of 80
    Why wasn't anything mentioned about the MacBook Pro not coming with extension cord? All previous MacBooks came with one and this is the first time Apple is making you buy such a simple part? It should come free like it always has. 
    Let me get it straight. You are not concerned about how overpriced the dual-core MacBook Pros are, but you are pissed about having to buy an extension cord?
    baconstang
  • Reply 29 of 80
    daekwan said:
    rob53 said:
    Do you like your Mac? Would you like one of the latest MBPs? If so, then quit complaining and buy one and use it. If not, then go find a Windows PC and see it that satisfies your urge to waste your time fixing things instead of being productive.
    Oh burn!!!

    I've never seen it stated it better.  While I dont agree with many of the changes to the new MBP.  I realize this is what Apple has always done.  They have always been expensive.  They have always been controversial in dropping legacy ports/devices.  They have always had proprietary dongles, cables and devices.  

    But you know what else Apple has always done?  Always delivered the most stable desktop OS and rock solid software.  Always built robust, quality products that outlast, outperform and hold their value much better than their competitors.  Always provided an unmatched user experience.  

    So this 2016 MBP w/TouchBar presents potential buyers with a choice that so many previous Apple products have done.  Do you more money for the product from the company who has built a reputation of "just working"?  Or do you save some bucks, choose a competitor.. and probably end up seriously regretting a few months later.. as you find out exactly the competition costs less and creates more headaches.  
    Mini display port and/or HDMI will
    be back in the next generation unless they cannot fit the ports on the side of the body because of how thin the body is. I suspect the MagSafe will be back too. They tried to kill FireWire a few years ago but due to an outcry they brought it back for a few more years. 
    baconstang
  • Reply 30 of 80
    chabigchabig Posts: 641member
    lorin schultz said:
    I always shut down my Mac before stuffing it in my bag to change locations. It doesn't seem like a good idea to leave power applied to something that's being hauled around.
    Am I correct in assuming you shut off your phone before going out with it? Do you only to the radio in your car while it's parked? Macs no longer have moving parts. Even when they had spinning drives, there was no problem transporting a sleeping machine.
    admiral.ashik
  • Reply 31 of 80
    chabig said:
    lorin schultz said:
    I always shut down my Mac before stuffing it in my bag to change locations. It doesn't seem like a good idea to leave power applied to something that's being hauled around.
    Am I correct in assuming you shut off your phone before going out with it? Do you only to the radio in your car while it's parked? Macs no longer have moving parts. Even when they had spinning drives, there was no problem transporting a sleeping machine.
    Except that if the "sleep" glitches your mac book pro is now on inside your bag without ventilation overheating. Yes I have had this happen thankfully I noticed before any damage was done. I turn my mac off when it goes into a bag.
  • Reply 32 of 80
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    chabig said:
    lorin schultz said:
    I always shut down my Mac before stuffing it in my bag to change locations. It doesn't seem like a good idea to leave power applied to something that's being hauled around.
    Am I correct in assuming you shut off your phone before going out with it? Do you only to the radio in your car while it's parked? Macs no longer have moving parts. Even when they had spinning drives, there was no problem transporting a sleeping machine.
    Except that if the "sleep" glitches your mac book pro is now on inside your bag without ventilation overheating. Yes I have had this happen thankfully I noticed before any damage was done. I turn my mac off when it goes into a bag.
    That system going to sleep with the magnetic lid is engaged needs to fail and then all the sensors that monitor the temperature and tell the system to go to reduce performance, go to sleep, and turn off (in that order) all need to fail. That sounds like a really awful way to use your computer and you are potentially adding more wear and tear by having turning off and powering on the system considerably more than it was designed for.

    Here's a list of my current sensors in my 2013 15" MBP.


    StrangeDaysadmiral.ashik
  • Reply 33 of 80
    sirozha said:
    daekwan said:
    rob53 said:
    Do you like your Mac? Would you like one of the latest MBPs? If so, then quit complaining and buy one and use it. If not, then go find a Windows PC and see it that satisfies your urge to waste your time fixing things instead of being productive.
    Oh burn!!!

    I've never seen it stated it better.  While I dont agree with many of the changes to the new MBP.  I realize this is what Apple has always done.  They have always been expensive.  They have always been controversial in dropping legacy ports/devices.  They have always had proprietary dongles, cables and devices.  

    But you know what else Apple has always done?  Always delivered the most stable desktop OS and rock solid software.  Always built robust, quality products that outlast, outperform and hold their value much better than their competitors.  Always provided an unmatched user experience.  

    So this 2016 MBP w/TouchBar presents potential buyers with a choice that so many previous Apple products have done.  Do you more money for the product from the company who has built a reputation of "just working"?  Or do you save some bucks, choose a competitor.. and probably end up seriously regretting a few months later.. as you find out exactly the competition costs less and creates more headaches.  
    Mini display port and/or HDMI will
    be back in the next generation unless they cannot fit the ports on the side of the body because of how thin the body is. I suspect the MagSafe will be back too. They tried to kill FireWire a few years ago but due to an outcry they brought it back for a few more years. 
    … Seriously? I'm royally pissed at Apple because of their dumbheaded decision to solder in the SSD and will not be recommending the Touch Bar to my colleagues/customers, or not without issuing severe caveats (many of them didn't indeed know that their Unibody MacBooks were upgradeable at all when they bought them, but after spending years putting Fusion Drives and extra RAM on the latter and seeing how happy they are with the results, I know for a fact – it's just human nature at work – they will buy their next Mac under the assumption that it, too, will be upgradeable; I had already started warning them that RAM wasn't upgradeable anymore with the advent of the first Retina models – and advising them to upgrade it by default and buy BTO machines only, because the price difference isn't that obscene –, and it is now my moral duty to warn them about how storage upgrades work in the same way and just how expensive they are, sosumi… And AI should at least help me/us out a bit; shame on you writers and on you fellow forum-goers for excusing them, as the after-market upgrade path – or, sadly in this case, its lack thereof – is indeed a materially relevant information for all the buyers that may not follow all of AI's posts on the subject, which will quickly get buried under newer articles), but not even I think that the decision to axe all ports in favor of 2/4 Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports was as stupid as many people like to teasingly tell me, nor do I think Apple will ever reverse it. Not in a million years…

    In fact, since I/O ports are a user-facing feature and one about which Apple seems to be very proud and smug, I'd venture to say that it's actually more likely they will redesign both Touch Bar models' internals over the next iterations so that they may feature a discret SSD (hey, I know this “prediction” of sorts is mostly wishful thinking on my part and should be taken with a big grain of salt, but I do believe Apple designers will keep the current design for a little while and maybe the engineers may put slots on it again if they manage to miniaturize the logic board further with newer, more efficient chipsets, CPUs and GPUs) than they would reintroduce any specialized connector. The only different connectors you may ever see on Macs (if they do last that long as a platform) will be a newer, more powerful replacement for USB-C in 10-20 years' time and, since those headphone jacks' days are numbered anyway (Phil's PR “truths” notwithstanding), a Lightning connector for newer wired AirPods and Beats products once the market is saturated enough with iPhone 7 (and newer) units.
    freethinkingentropys
  • Reply 34 of 80
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    Having only played with this for some minutes in the Apple Store so this is an observation made on that, and not an 'opinion', but Mych as I like the touch bar I find it automatically sends my finger to the screen. I would make an adjustment on the bar and then go to move the image or cancel a command on the screen. There is a very natural connection between the touch bar and the screen. 
  • Reply 35 of 80
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    paxman said:
    Having only played with this for some minutes in the Apple Store so this is an observation made on that, and not an 'opinion', but Mych as I like the touch bar I find it automatically sends my finger to the screen. I would make an adjustment on the bar and then go to move the image or cancel a command on the screen. There is a very natural connection between the touch bar and the screen. 
    1) You mean with the Touch Bar Control Center? I did that exactly once, today, when setting up a new MBP for my roommate. I don't expect that to be an issue or a common occurrence as the Touch Bar icon settings will altered less often then I alter my toolbar in Finder. Set it and forget it.

    2) I found the Touch Bar instantly useable and natural. In Safari it was great to tap the Address and Search Bar area of the Touch Bar and type in text instantly without having to move my hand down to the trackpad to then run the mouse to the top of the screen. This would be even worse if I had to lift my entire arm up to take a narrow bar at the top of my display so I can then bring it back down to type in text. I can't wait to get my own MBPwTB.
    pscooter63admiral.ashik
  • Reply 36 of 80
    "Those users can opt for the same chassis without a Touch Bar and save $300 in the process. That's not a small amount."

    Will touch bar come to iMac/Pro/Mini? Can we look forward to an external backlit wireless keyboard with touchbar in the new year, and at what cost?

    My biggest MBP challenge at the moment seems external monitors, with no Thunderbolt availability nor retina upgrade, no availability of the larger LG (soon I am told), lack of full TB support (no mini DisplayPort) and iMac as Target Display limited to the narrow band of non-retina Thunderbolt models. Both Apple Store & my top authorized dealer reps seemed very surprised that DisplayPort was not supported, the dealer suggesting Thunderbolt Display sales may have also suffered due to the more universal support for LED Cinema Displays, being preferred by most...

    I can only hope that Apple has a change of heart & continues / offers:
    - 27" Thunderbolt Display with USB-3 (for those buying air, mini, macbook, on a budget, etc)
    - 27" Thunderbolt 3 Display 5k with USB-C + internal GPU option
    - iMac Retina Target Display Mode support
    - full Thunderbolt spec which would include DisplayPort in the TB2 adapter
    - an external backlit bluetooth keyboard + touch bar option

    While Apple does occasionally reinstate things (RAID support) when users speak up, I won't hold my breath on any of the above. Unfortunately as it stands my current upgrade option looks like maxing out last generation tech, rather than the bleeding edge of TB3, so that 'everything just works'...

    The option of plugging in two, three* or even four*  27" Apple displays (*15", universally with DP/Target modes?) seems like a compelling upgrade. Portrait mode I have found remarkably helpful for such 'professional' things as research papers/news/blogs/eBooks, spreadsheets, menu palettes, technical documents such as regulations, specs & codes, VMs, (I can imagine) coding and for those with aging eyes or Accessibility needs (limited vision) wanting larger text...
    edited November 2016
  • Reply 37 of 80
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    Why wasn't anything mentioned about the MacBook Pro not coming with extension cord? All previous MacBooks came with one and this is the first time Apple is making you buy such a simple part? It should come free like it always has. 
    I think it probably wasn't mentioned because no one really cares that much. That's my guess anyway. 
  • Reply 38 of 80
    appexappex Posts: 687member
    Bring new Apple Cinema Display Thunderbolt 3, MacBook Pro and Mac Pro with Kaby Lake (or Cannonlake), DDR4 and SSD not soldered and without RAID 0.
    edited November 2016 freethinking
  • Reply 39 of 80
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Rayz2016 said:
    Why wasn't anything mentioned about the MacBook Pro not coming with extension cord? All previous MacBooks came with one and this is the first time Apple is making you buy such a simple part? It should come free like it always has. 
    I think it probably wasn't mentioned because no one really cares that much. That's my guess anyway. 
    And it works with every other AC cable they've been selling with Mac notebooks for I don't know how many years. It's only $19.

    Personally, I wish Apple start to phase out including PSUs with their iDevices in the future. These are not cheap, hard to recycle, and contain many materials that are bad for landfills. I'd also like them to stop including their headphones, but that's to a much lesser extent. Just imagine how thin their iPhone and iPad boxes could be if they just include a cable (an accessory that does wear down and with age so I would suggest still including them)?

    If I have any complaint it's the cost of the PSU with the MBPwTB. They charge $79 for the 87W PSU with a USB-C port, as well as charging $79 for the 45W, 60W, and 85W PSUs with a built-in DC cable and attached MagSafe or MagSafe 2 adapter, but even that is a little tough bitch about since they charge $79 for the 45W version and the 87W version which tells me this isn't priced as a money maker.

    This hypothesis is further backed up by Apple switching to USB-C for charging over the proprietary MagSafe which means that they are now in competition with every OEM that wishes to make a PSU with a USB-C port interface and cable. I wouldn't trust some random company selling a 85+W PSU for $20, but you will be able to go to Belkin, Dell, Asus, Lenovo, etc. to get a decent PSU that might be less expensive, plus less expensive USB-C-to-USB-C cables for charging.

    The beauty of USB-C is that we can now have multiple charging stations at the locations we frequent without having to carry our single PSU with us. In the past I've hesitated on buying multiple Apple PSUs because there was the chance they'd change MagSafe again, but with USB-C I have no doubt this will be around long enough that there's no reason not to invest in multiple chargers. I would like black or grey ones with matching USB-C cable to match the Space Gray MBP, though.


    edit: Here's Google's Chromebook Pixel 60W PSU with attached USB-C cable. I'm sure the internals are fine but the construction looks cheap and being an attached cable is just a poor design choice, but I digress. They charged $60 for that 60W PSU, which shows that these PSUs aren't inexpensive.


    edited November 2016
  • Reply 40 of 80
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,782member
    adrayven said:
    I really, really want the 15" maxed out, but I'm opting to hold out until Feb/March to see if they do any price drops.. They usually do a small drop in the 6-12 month mark after a major release like this. They did it for new MacBook Air, Retina MacBook, and even the new MacBook, which has seen a price drop twice now.
    Don't count a price drop by Feb/March. They don't update it that quickly and you wouldn't see a price drop until they update it again. Maybe save more money between today and Feb/Mar and then get what you want. Otherwise, you're waiting until probably October again. 
    edited November 2016 watto_cobraadmiral.ashik
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