Turkish authorities seeking Apple's help to unlock iPhone 4s found on assassin

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 36
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    People have a right to private encrypted communication. If they become a criminal, they become a criminal. That doesn't change the rights people are entitled to.

    Why do they need to unlock his phone? So they can find out that he's a radicalized Islamist being influenced by other radical Islamists? Let me save you the trouble.
    Minor point of disagreement:  A right is not an entitlement, it is inherent. In the US the Constitution protects certain individual rights. It does not grant them.
    Well Said!

    Congrats on becoming a Mod. 
  • Reply 22 of 36
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,079member
    eightzero said:
    Time for Apple and Tim Cook to sign the Sokovia Accords. 

    Um.. perhaps you're trying to be cute (or funny), I don't know, but what does that have to do with the issues at hand?!
    Maybe nothing. Maybe there's an important principle involved. You decide. 
  • Reply 23 of 36
    Soli said:
    Why wouldn't this assassin wipe his phone right before the attack or make sure there was nothing on it that could lead him to anyone else?
    Because then they would have to obtain the information about his contacts the old fashioned way: throw him in a Turkish prison.
  • Reply 24 of 36
    People have a right to private encrypted communication. If they become a criminal, they become a criminal. That doesn't change the rights people are entitled to.

    Why do they need to unlock his phone? So they can find out that he's a radicalized Islamist being influenced by other radical Islamists? Let me save you the trouble.
    Minor point of disagreement:  A right is not an entitlement, it is inherent. In the US the Constitution protects certain individual rights. It does not grant them.
    Of course we are not talking about the US or other 'so called' western democracies, where personal freedoms supposedly hold primacy. As American and others, we must always stand up for the broadest definitions of freedoms and constitutional fidelity.

    But, unlike Nostradamus, the founders, legislators through time and many modern SCOTUS were not able to account for or understand the intricacies of modern communication and HW on public safety, national security, personal freedom and privacy.

    Therefore, companies like Apple must figure it out on the fly, especially dealing with intolerant governments, terrorist, and even modern quasi authoritarian States like our own.

    Brave and scary New World arrived awhile back.

  • Reply 25 of 36
    fracfrac Posts: 480member
    Apple must tread carefully with this request from Turkey. While Apple instinct is to deny requests for such technical help if it threatens customer privacy or privacy policy in general, Turkey and other repressive and intolerant governments are looking for reasons and excuses to excise threats to their totalitarian tendencies. This would be the perfect feign for bringing that hammer down on Apple.

    I believe that in this case and others similar I am aware of, Apple should provide expertise to authorities. This could take place within Apple approved guidelines and would be easier to safely and securely roll out with an Apple designated 'go team' that would assist on a case by case basis, guided by Apple policy. The team would come in, privately solve the problem and move on.

    This need is going to continue to increase, Apple has a responsibility to provide help at times and at others, to hold firm.

    If Apple does not develop this flexibility, governments will find ways to shut them down, with out thinking twice, al la Chinese limitation of several tech companies.
    Unless I've completely missed your intent, I'm thinking we've had this argument before. Apple has stated they give ALL the information they can from non encrypted iCloud backups to the authorities on receipt of a court order with no other access beyond that. Further, they have stated that Apple has no backdoor into iOS and that they have no intention of breaking their encryption security under any condition because "the bad guys" will eventually figure it out. They would have to break their own software. 
    Given that security - encryption...is a binary argument ie. on/off encryption with no middle ground whatsoever, how would any team fit into that scenario. How do you have one team adding security whilst another works for law enforcement to break it? It just doesn't make any sense. What about all the other encryption solutions out there? and freely available to roll your own. 
    It's math. What it isn't includes having a social conscience or a bleeting heart, a middle ground maybe option, a political leaning or indeed, an ability to adapt to geographical whims or business nous. 
    Apple has stated their commitment to end-to-end encryption for users security. From that moment, any breach of that trust would bring down Apple to a smoking hulk almost overnight. 
    Its quite shocking to be going over this so soon. 
    The die is cast
    equality72521
  • Reply 26 of 36
    Maybe the police should have arrested him instead of shooting him, eh?
    Macsplosiontallest skil
  • Reply 27 of 36
    eightzero said:
    eightzero said:
    Time for Apple and Tim Cook to sign the Sokovia Accords. 

    Um.. perhaps you're trying to be cute (or funny), I don't know, but what does that have to do with the issues at hand?!
    Maybe nothing. Maybe there's an important principle involved. You decide. 
    There's nothing to decide.  
  • Reply 28 of 36
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,079member
    eightzero said:
    eightzero said:
    Time for Apple and Tim Cook to sign the Sokovia Accords. 

    Um.. perhaps you're trying to be cute (or funny), I don't know, but what does that have to do with the issues at hand?!
    Maybe nothing. Maybe there's an important principle involved. You decide. 
    There's nothing to decide.  
    You might be right. Or you might be missing the whole point. Others might have a different opinion. Hard to tell.
  • Reply 29 of 36
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,368member
    eightzero said:
    Maybe nothing. Maybe there's an important principle involved. You decide. 
    Code for: It sounded cool when I posted but now that you busted me on it, I got nothin'.
  • Reply 30 of 36
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,368member
    tonton said:
    Maybe the police should have arrested him instead of shooting him, eh?
    You should have been there to take him into custody when those onsite couldn't, BECAUSE HE WAS SHOOTING PEOPLE, EH? What would be your game plan, let him shoot people until he was out of ammo?

    I must have missed the part you were privy to, where he put down his weapon and surrendered, but was gunned down by trigger happy police.

    The stupidity of some armchair quarterbacks is astounding. Einstein was right.
    dasanman69
  • Reply 31 of 36
    its pretty likely a 4s can be cracked without Apple's help by 3rd party forensics experts, within a week or so. I'd expect the Russians to be capable of it.

    Apple can can and should provide data it has like iITunes & Cloud data, metadata and backups , but a 4s is easier to get into than the 5c used in San Bernadino. 
  • Reply 32 of 36
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    macgui said:
    tonton said:
    Maybe the police should have arrested him instead of shooting him, eh?
    You should have been there to take him into custody when those onsite couldn't, BECAUSE HE WAS SHOOTING PEOPLE, EH? What would be your game plan, let him shoot people until he was out of ammo?

    I must have missed the part you were privy to, where he put down his weapon and surrendered, but was gunned down by trigger happy police.

    The stupidity of some armchair quarterbacks is astounding. Einstein was right.
    Note that there were no other fatalities and the other people (even the other Russians) were not shot or apparently shot at.  

    He did shoot at police after being shot in the legs but between body armor and cover he wasn't much of a threat to them and it was unlikely he was wearing a suicide vest from his outfit.

    The whole thing strikes me as odd.  There was perimeter security and a metal detector but no actual security with the ambassador at a time where public anti-Russian sentiment was high and Erdogan under pressure because of Aleppo.  Now things have shifted in a direction favorable to the government and they are claiming CIA involvement and Turkey and Russia quickly moving closer.

    Probably just a lone crazy but man has these events (coup attempt, assasination) played out very favorably for Erdogan.
  • Reply 33 of 36
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,277member
    anome said:
    As difficult as it might be, Apple needs to be consistent about this. They should offer the same assistance they offered the FBI in the San Bernardino case, and no more. It's more complicated since this isn't American law enforcement, but a foreign government, and it involves the murder of a high profile diplomat, but they have to remain consistent lest it become a slippery slope.

    Also, why aren't the FBI offering to assist with the solution they have to the San Bernardino phone? It would earn them and the US government a lot of goodwill in both Turkey and Russia to at least offer to help out.
    According to the Russians it's not needed. They say they can access the data on the iPhone in question if the Turks can't.
  • Reply 34 of 36
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,277member
    eightzero said:
    Time for Apple and Tim Cook to sign the Sokovia Accords. 

    Um.. perhaps you're trying to be cute (or funny), I don't know, but what does that have to do with the issues at hand?!
    Obviously meant jokingly since it's a reference to an imaginary accord from a Marvel movie. A fairly good movie too IMO but very different from the other Avenger flics.
    edited December 2016
  • Reply 35 of 36
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    gatorguy said:
    eightzero said:
    Time for Apple and Tim Cook to sign the Sokovia Accords. 

    Um.. perhaps you're trying to be cute (or funny), I don't know, but what does that have to do with the issues at hand?!
    Obviously meant jokingly since it's a reference to an imaginary accord from a Marvel movie. A fairly good movie too IMO but very different from the other Avenger flics.
    I didn't get the reference so I googled it. First result makes it clear it's a joke. 
  • Reply 36 of 36
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,079member
    macgui said:
    eightzero said:
    Maybe nothing. Maybe there's an important principle involved. You decide. 
    Code for: It sounded cool when I posted but now that you busted me on it, I got nothin'.
    Insightful. Thanks. 
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