nht said; Very considerate of you to disparage other opinions that USB-C will be mainstream in 2018 as "laughable".
There is hardly a comparison. You cast your vitriol at me personally. In contrast, I singled out no one individually. That makes all the difference.
It's not really that difficult to be nice. To label others as "trolls" is the furthest thing from "nice." And to be "trollish" is to be mean and cruel, especially to individuals in a forum. Despite the personal attacks launched at me, I have nothing against you or fallenjt personally. Who knows. You gentlemen may even be rather nice fellows in person. But calling people "trolls" is petty name calling that certainly is not going to make others think highly of your discourse.
You also could have handled your reply to GeorgeBMac more intelligently than claiming it was a "complete lie." If anything, your assertion was less than honest seeing it overlooks iOS devices. I have an iPad 3, purchased in 2012. It cannot run iOS10. Count the years to 2016, friend.
As to USB-C, it doesn't matter in the short term if USB-C devices, adapters, etc. debut at CES. USB-C will not be "ubiquitous" (seen wherever you go) for a few more years yet. And that is precisely why the 2016 MacBook Pros would have better served users had they been a "bridge" machine, bridging that USB-C future with at least one USB-A port for there here and now, plus retaining the SD card slot (which not doubt will still be widely used even 5 years hence).
USB-C will not be "ubiquitous" (seen wherever you go) for a few more years yet.
I think your timeframe is waaay off. USB-C will be ubiquitous this year because every new Mac will have it and most of the Android-based smartphones will have it. You'll be hard pressed to go somewhere that USB-C is not present on some device at some public place. What will take a few years is before we reach a tipping point—to wit, over 50% of devices in the wild with USB—because of how often people update their devices.
nht said; Very considerate of you to disparage other opinions that USB-C will be mainstream in 2018 as "laughable".
There is hardly a comparison. You cast your vitriol at me personally. In contrast, I singled out no one individually. That makes all the difference.
It's not really that difficult to be nice. To label others as "trolls" is the furthest thing from "nice." And to be "trollish" is to be mean and cruel, especially to individuals in a forum.
No. A troll posts inflammatory remarks to gain (generally negative) responses. Concern trolls are often artificially polite.
I do not need to be "nice" to trolls that provide misleading commentary or complain after making similar disparaging remarks and inflammatory language.
You also could have handled your reply to GeorgeBMac more intelligently than claiming it was a "complete lie." If anything, your assertion was less than honest seeing it overlooks iOS devices. I have an iPad 3, purchased in 2012. It cannot run iOS10. Count the years to 2016, friend.
No. It is SO wrong as to be deliberate so thus a lie. He wasn't talking about IOS devices and I'm not your friend. He was talking about $2000 laptops.
As to USB-C, it doesn't matter in the short term if USB-C devices, adapters, etc. debut at CES. USB-C will not be "ubiquitous" (seen wherever you go) for a few more years yet. And that is precisely why the 2016 MacBook Pros would have better served users had they been a "bridge" machine, bridging that USB-C future with at least one USB-A port for there here and now, plus retaining the SD card slot (which not doubt will still be widely used even 5 years hence).
USB-C devices will already seen wherever you go THIS year. Most of the top end Android phones (with the notable exception of the S7) have USB-C ports. All of the top 2017 Android phone and many of the mid range ones will have USB-C ports. Obviously every new MBP and MB have USB-C but so does 2016 ultrabooks from Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. For 2017 all new ultrabook offerings will have USB-C. Many will have TB3 as well.
Not in a "few" more years. This year is the inflection point for USB-C just like 2012 was the inflection point for USB 3 (3 years after its initial release). By 2018 the low end Android phones will all be USB-C along with normal laptops.
You and all else here are considered by me to be my friends unless you are my enemy, and I do not consider you an enemy despite your eager desire to get me and others to that point. And we ought to be nice to everyone, even those who some consider trolls. It's called "love thine enemy" and "turn the other cheek." No need to be religious to see the merits in those virtuous mottos in life.
Whether one in this forum is exclusively talking about Macs (completely excluding iOS devices) or not is subject to debate. Rather than think negatively of the GeorgeBMac, I chose instead to consider what he might have meant, viewing his words as an Optimist rather than a Pessimist.
Clearly, when one considers iOS devices, we do not see a decade of use out of them. Again, the 2012 iPad 3 cannot run a 2016 version of iOS. That is indeed short. As to the usefulness and longevity of Macs, I think it is rather undeniable that Macs today are not what the used to be. Machines built in the 80's and 90's (I collect vintage Macs) may need a minor cap job here and there but they still run quite well with their intended software. My poor late 2009 iMac i7 though had video card death due to heat just after the AppleCare expired, and while my having written Tim Cook got Apple to replace the card for free, the machine started exhibiting signs of the same problem by mid-2016. My story really isn't that rare either. So while one may contend that we can get more OS life out of our Macs than our iOS devices, that doesn't mean more "life in general" from some Macs, which unfortunately seem to die from overheating (insufficient cooling).
What will take a few years is before we reach a tipping point—to wit, over 50% of devices in the wild with USB—because of how often people update their devices.
More specifically, "over 50% of devices in the wild with USB-C." And that is precisely what I meant when I used the word "ubiquitous." You would see it pretty much everywhere, meaning that "most people would have it on at least one device by then. But until then, we will only see it sporadically. And by the time it finally becomes the norm, Apple will have refreshed the MBP at least twice. And that is why I said it would have been more prudent to have made the 2016 MBP have MOSTLY USB-C ports, but with 1 legacy USB-A port, and of course retain the SD card slot. What's done is done. But the fact is we MBP buyers still have the option to buy the 2015 model should the need arise, which is precisely what I did. Apple even still sells it, although, very sadly, not the model with the dGPU. I had to venture onto EBAY to find one of those, since neither ADORAMA nor B&H still them in the fully loaded configurations (16GB RAM & 1TB SSD with dGPU).
Clearly, when one considers iOS devices, we do not see a decade of use out of them.
You do realize that for another 2 days that iOS devices have even launched a decade ago?
My kids are still using the original iPad. It's doing YouTube duty in the kitchen. That's not 10 years yet but unless we buy a bunch of new iPadPros instead of laptops and replace it with a younger iPad it'll soldier on.
While none of my 2012 iPads will get iOS 10 all of them still get iOS 9 security updates. This is all I expect as RAM and CPU requirements increase. Your assertion is wrong.
Again, the 2012 iPad 3 cannot run a 2016 version of iOS. That is indeed short.
No, that's not short at all for mobile.
As to the usefulness and longevity of Macs, I think it is rather undeniable that Macs today are not what the used to be. Machines built in the 80's and 90's (I collect vintage Macs) may need a minor cap job here and there but they still run quite well with their intended software. My poor late 2009 iMac i7 though had video card death due to heat just after the AppleCare expired, and while my having written Tim Cook got Apple to replace the card for free, the machine started exhibiting signs of the same problem by mid-2016. My story really isn't that rare either. So while one may contend that we can get more OS life out of our Macs than our iOS devices, that doesn't mean more "life in general" from some Macs, which unfortunately seem to die from overheating (insufficient cooling).
No. I have a Quicksilver Powermac that (probably...haven't tried in a year or two) still boots and runs. I have a core solo mini that runs and a core2 duo one as well.
Your ancedotal failures are just that and generalizing that to say modern macs are built less well than those of the 80s-90s is utter bullshit. I had two Apple Mac IIs crap out on me and one of our Lisas was always cranky.
Your ancedotal failures are just that and generalizing that to say modern macs are built less well than those of the 80s-90s is utter bullshit. I had two Apple Mac IIs crap out on me and one of our Lisas was always cranky.
Hardly specific to me. One of the most common failures with iMacs over the last 7 or so years is video card failure due to heat. You should know how much cooler Macs of old ran (machines with internal fans). You'd be hard pressed to find a Mac II video card that died because of excessive heat. My Mac IIvx (purchased new and later upgraded to a Quadra 650 motherboard) was built like a tank and runs well to this day.
It took Apple a number of years, but they seemed to have got the iMac right, starting with the late 2015 5k iMac. I have that machine at the office and it runs quite cool. But aluminum-cased QuadCore iMacs up to that model ran rather hot. My 2009 iMac is too hot to touch in the upper left (back) most of the time, even when using smcFanControl. My late 2015 4GHz iMac in contrast is only slightly warm, even after a video editing session.
Clearly, when one considers iOS devices, we do not see a decade of use out of them.
You do realize that for another 2 days that iOS devices have even launched a decade ago?
My kids are still using the original iPad. It's doing YouTube duty in the kitchen. That's not 10 years yet but unless we buy a bunch of new iPadPros instead of laptops and replace it with a younger iPad it'll soldier on.
While none of my 2012 iPads will get iOS 10 all of them still get iOS 9 security updates. This is all I expect as RAM and CPU requirements increase. Your assertion is wrong.
Again, the 2012 iPad 3 cannot run a 2016 version of iOS. That is indeed short.
No, that's not short at all for mobile.
As to the usefulness and longevity of Macs, I think it is rather undeniable that Macs today are not what the used to be. Machines built in the 80's and 90's (I collect vintage Macs) may need a minor cap job here and there but they still run quite well with their intended software. My poor late 2009 iMac i7 though had video card death due to heat just after the AppleCare expired, and while my having written Tim Cook got Apple to replace the card for free, the machine started exhibiting signs of the same problem by mid-2016. My story really isn't that rare either. So while one may contend that we can get more OS life out of our Macs than our iOS devices, that doesn't mean more "life in general" from some Macs, which unfortunately seem to die from overheating (insufficient cooling).
No. I have a Quicksilver Powermac that (probably...haven't tried in a year or two) still boots and runs. I have a core solo mini that runs and a core2 duo one as well.
Your ancedotal failures are just that and generalizing that to say modern macs are built less well than those of the 80s-90s is utter bullshit. I had two Apple Mac IIs crap out on me and one of our Lisas was always cranky.
The late 2009 iMac graphics card failure is anything but anecdotal. When mine (also an i7) failed for exactly the same reason as JDW's, I spent a lot of time reading up on the problem. This issue is common, well known and understood. From what I could gather, it is probably the number one problem of those Macs and by a landslide.
So well known that I am surprised there has not been a class action on the issue or a warranty extension programme.
They slow cook themselves to death due to the thermal design.
We will see if this revamped line of MBPs passes the thermal test a few years from now. The same can be said for the glued in battery and how well it performs both in terms of battery life and it's lifespan.
I won't be getting one for a whole host of reasons but even if I wanted a MBP, I wouldn't be able to afford one.
The 31st is the date to watch. We might see something in the earnings call that could shed some light on sales, if only indirectly.
I'm a college student and don't play any graphic-intensive games, so I don't need high end CPU/graphic performance. What I do want, however, is the Retina display and portability, so 12" MacBook would be a great option for me, but there's one major issue: Lack of Touch ID. I have the iPhone 7 Plus & iPad Air 2 and use the fingerprint sensor countless times. If I could do that on my laptop too, then my life would be much easier as I unlock my phone, iPad and laptop ten's, if not hundred's, of times a day. I know the new MBP has Touch ID & Touch Bar, but if I choose MBP then I'm sacrificing portability. Also the price is more expensive. So what I think I'm gonna do is to hold out till 12" MacBook gets Touch ID. So here's my question: Is there a chance that Apple brings Touch ID to 12" MacBook this year or next year?
Buy an Apple Watch to unlock your 12" Macbook :-) It works like magic, you don't press anything.
Thanks for your suggestion, but I personally can't find the use of the watch. And for a college student, $249 (price of the watch series 1 base model) for Touch ID is a bit too much. It may sound ironic when I said I'm considering a near-$2k laptop, but I'm considering such an expensive laptop because I feel it's worth every penny I pay for it and would use it at least till I graduate, but it's not the same for the watch. I really appreciate your suggestion, though. Hadn't thought of that option. If I had enough budget, I would've gone with that option.
Comments
It's not really that difficult to be nice. To label others as "trolls" is the furthest thing from "nice." And to be "trollish" is to be mean and cruel, especially to individuals in a forum. Despite the personal attacks launched at me, I have nothing against you or fallenjt personally. Who knows. You gentlemen may even be rather nice fellows in person. But calling people "trolls" is petty name calling that certainly is not going to make others think highly of your discourse.
You also could have handled your reply to GeorgeBMac more intelligently than claiming it was a "complete lie." If anything, your assertion was less than honest seeing it overlooks iOS devices. I have an iPad 3, purchased in 2012. It cannot run iOS10. Count the years to 2016, friend.
As to USB-C, it doesn't matter in the short term if USB-C devices, adapters, etc. debut at CES. USB-C will not be "ubiquitous" (seen wherever you go) for a few more years yet. And that is precisely why the 2016 MacBook Pros would have better served users had they been a "bridge" machine, bridging that USB-C future with at least one USB-A port for there here and now, plus retaining the SD card slot (which not doubt will still be widely used even 5 years hence).
I do not need to be "nice" to trolls that provide misleading commentary or complain after making similar disparaging remarks and inflammatory language.
No. It is SO wrong as to be deliberate so thus a lie. He wasn't talking about IOS devices and I'm not your friend. He was talking about $2000 laptops.
USB-C devices will already seen wherever you go THIS year. Most of the top end Android phones (with the notable exception of the S7) have USB-C ports. All of the top 2017 Android phone and many of the mid range ones will have USB-C ports. Obviously every new MBP and MB have USB-C but so does 2016 ultrabooks from Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. For 2017 all new ultrabook offerings will have USB-C. Many will have TB3 as well.
http://www.ultrabookreview.com/10579-laptops-thunderbolt-3/
Not in a "few" more years. This year is the inflection point for USB-C just like 2012 was the inflection point for USB 3 (3 years after its initial release). By 2018 the low end Android phones will all be USB-C along with normal laptops.
Whether one in this forum is exclusively talking about Macs (completely excluding iOS devices) or not is subject to debate. Rather than think negatively of the GeorgeBMac, I chose instead to consider what he might have meant, viewing his words as an Optimist rather than a Pessimist.
Clearly, when one considers iOS devices, we do not see a decade of use out of them. Again, the 2012 iPad 3 cannot run a 2016 version of iOS. That is indeed short. As to the usefulness and longevity of Macs, I think it is rather undeniable that Macs today are not what the used to be. Machines built in the 80's and 90's (I collect vintage Macs) may need a minor cap job here and there but they still run quite well with their intended software. My poor late 2009 iMac i7 though had video card death due to heat just after the AppleCare expired, and while my having written Tim Cook got Apple to replace the card for free, the machine started exhibiting signs of the same problem by mid-2016. My story really isn't that rare either. So while one may contend that we can get more OS life out of our Macs than our iOS devices, that doesn't mean more "life in general" from some Macs, which unfortunately seem to die from overheating (insufficient cooling).
More specifically, "over 50% of devices in the wild with USB-C." And that is precisely what I meant when I used the word "ubiquitous." You would see it pretty much everywhere, meaning that "most people would have it on at least one device by then. But until then, we will only see it sporadically. And by the time it finally becomes the norm, Apple will have refreshed the MBP at least twice. And that is why I said it would have been more prudent to have made the 2016 MBP have MOSTLY USB-C ports, but with 1 legacy USB-A port, and of course retain the SD card slot. What's done is done. But the fact is we MBP buyers still have the option to buy the 2015 model should the need arise, which is precisely what I did. Apple even still sells it, although, very sadly, not the model with the dGPU. I had to venture onto EBAY to find one of those, since neither ADORAMA nor B&H still them in the fully loaded configurations (16GB RAM & 1TB SSD with dGPU).
My kids are still using the original iPad. It's doing YouTube duty in the kitchen. That's not 10 years yet but unless we buy a bunch of new iPadPros instead of laptops and replace it with a younger iPad it'll soldier on.
While none of my 2012 iPads will get iOS 10 all of them still get iOS 9 security updates. This is all I expect as RAM and CPU requirements increase. Your assertion is wrong.
No, that's not short at all for mobile.
No. I have a Quicksilver Powermac that (probably...haven't tried in a year or two) still boots and runs. I have a core solo mini that runs and a core2 duo one as well.
Your ancedotal failures are just that and generalizing that to say modern macs are built less well than those of the 80s-90s is utter bullshit. I had two Apple Mac IIs crap out on me and one of our Lisas was always cranky.
It took Apple a number of years, but they seemed to have got the iMac right, starting with the late 2015 5k iMac. I have that machine at the office and it runs quite cool. But aluminum-cased QuadCore iMacs up to that model ran rather hot. My 2009 iMac is too hot to touch in the upper left (back) most of the time, even when using smcFanControl. My late 2015 4GHz iMac in contrast is only slightly warm, even after a video editing session.
So well known that I am surprised there has not been a class action on the issue or a warranty extension programme.
They slow cook themselves to death due to the thermal design.
We will see if this revamped line of MBPs passes the thermal test a few years from now. The same can be said for the glued in battery and how well it performs both in terms of battery life and it's lifespan.
I won't be getting one for a whole host of reasons but even if I wanted a MBP, I wouldn't be able to afford one.
The 31st is the date to watch. We might see something in the earnings call that could shed some light on sales, if only indirectly.