This is the case of shooting the middle man. Apple has nothing to do whatsoever in between China government and NYT besides as a provider of NYT contents to Chinese consumer, and yet they take the blame like usual. Just see in near future the media of 2 countries will shift all the blame to Apple. The best action Apple could take right now is comply. Complaining to either sides will result in more damages to Apple than otherwise.
According to the Times their bureau in Beijing wasn't aware of this request. Did Apple inform the Times before they removed the app?
I think the reason it bothers some (including me) is Tim Cook talks about Apple's commitment to human rights yet has he ever spoken out about abuses in China? It's easy to do it in the United States where there really are no consequences. But are there any examples where Apple hasn't bent over a backwards not to upset Chinese government?
Shame on Apple. Shouldn't they try to make the regulators work a bit harder to at least produce some evidence that an violation indeed happened? Apple is walking down a very slippery slope. I wish Apple can put up a fight when a fight is called.
Interesting that Apple is being condemned instead of the NYT. Instead of fighting for itself, it is blaming Apple. Well, the NYT will earn a lot of money from clicks on articles tarnishing Apple for obeying Chinese law. Taking the word of the NYT about what happened is stupid. We have no idea what Apple did or did not do before removing the NYT app. Trusting the NYT to tell the truth is foolish.
We can all read between the lines. They exposed the cozy relationship between apple and china and they paid the price. Simple... I find it nauseating however, how apple quickly bends over to accommodate China's requests but willfully drags their heels when dealing with our govt. I'm curious where apple will draw the line when it comes to China's requests. When they ask for a backdoor?
I'm not sure what you find nauseating. In the US, Apple has legal rights, in China it does not. In the US, opposing the government when it goes against your values is patriotic in China it can be a death sentence. Challenging the government in the US is legal, challenging it in China could potentially kill all its manufacturing.
what I find nauseating is all the US companies that in the midst of the healthiest economic boom moved all their manufacturing to China to begin with in the hopes of selling to a large market essentially killing the US economy.
Labor may be cheaper, but you've essentially given up all your trade secrets because the Chinese government doesn't protect foreign investment. Insiders rip off Apple, beat Apple to the market with a cheap knock off product, and then sue Apple for knocking off their knock off products. Crazy. Further, unlike in the US, the Chinese heavily favors local companies and makes it very difficult for companies like Apple to compete.
Further, many of the Chinese manufacturers who manufacture US products manufacture cheaper knock offs or outright counterfeits essentially using their insider status to effectively compete with their US customers.
Back in the US, Amazon knowingly sells Chinese counterfeit products further displacing US companies.
Meanwhile, the Chinese benefit and the US economy suffers so much so that so many people were desperate enough to find it necessary to vote for somebody like Donald Trump for President.
Somewhat interesting that Apple, at a Chinese Government Request, would remove an app that NY Times probably had to hire a team of translators to manage. We'll never know if NY Times wanted to challenge China directly in a court of law. Apple already chose a side. By doing this, Apple effectively shut out the press (And NY Times Newspaper) from the world's largest market (and country), with 3,000,000,000 people.
But when the US wants an iPhone unlocked, Apple denies that request. Perhaps it's time to "Think Different" on how large and influential a company should be allowed to be.
Your view is unrealistic. In the US, the government asked Apple to do something 1 that it couldn't do without considerable effort, and 2 didn't want to do. By not agreeing to the FBI request, Apple risked nothing. Apple was never legally required to comply.
In China Apple was legally required to comply. Apple had to shut down its book store in China for carrying books in Hong Kong the Chinese government didn't like. Not complying could have made Apple shut its entire App Store, perhaps require it to cease sales of phones, expose executives to jail, and maybe effect its Chinese manufacturing. Essentially it could potentially put Apple out of business.
My two cents... From a long term perspective, if standing up for human rights, freedom of information and fair trade are important to Apple, then having a presence in China is key. If Apple continues to put great products and services into the country, even in an edited form, they accomplish a greater infusion of their values than if they just raised a middle finger. Times will change. China will slowly change. It isn't fair and it isn't right, but staying accomplishes more than leaving. I expect President Trump to test the boundaries of US / China trade and labor relations. We'll see.
This is the case of shooting the middle man. Apple has nothing to do whatsoever in between China government and NYT besides as a provider of NYT contents to Chinese consumer, and yet they take the blame like usual. Just see in near future the media of 2 countries will shift all the blame to Apple. The best action Apple could take right now is comply. Complaining to either sides will result in more damages to Apple than otherwise.
So google was wrong to pull its search engine out of china?
On what grounds should a private company ignore a foreign country's laws? Only the US military gets away with that.
Right. When apple gets an order to turn on the Mics, Cameras of all iPhones in China they should comply. Capitalism does not care about morals, human rights, just how much money it can make.
Shame on Apple. Shouldn't they try to make the regulators work a bit harder to at least produce some evidence that an violation indeed happened? Apple is walking down a very slippery slope. I wish Apple can put up a fight when a fight is called.
Why you are calling it a fight? If china's doesnt want New York Times's app then whats wrong in that?
Correct. and When china tells twitter to ban all trumps tweets when the trade war starts, twitter MUST comply
Shame on Apple. Shouldn't they try to make the regulators work a bit harder to at least produce some evidence that an violation indeed happened? Apple is walking down a very slippery slope. I wish Apple can put up a fight when a fight is called.
Interesting that Apple is being condemned instead of the NYT. Instead of fighting for itself, it is blaming Apple. Well, the NYT will earn a lot of money from clicks on articles tarnishing Apple for obeying Chinese law. Taking the word of the NYT about what happened is stupid. We have no idea what Apple did or did not do before removing the NYT app. Trusting the NYT to tell the truth is foolish.
We can all read between the lines. They exposed the cozy relationship between apple and china and they paid the price. Simple... I find it nauseating however, how apple quickly bends over to accommodate China's requests but willfully drags their heels when dealing with our govt. I'm curious where apple will draw the line when it comes to China's requests. When they ask for a backdoor?
IIRC Apple representatives testified under oath to Congress that no government in the world had tried to make Apple to create a less secure version of its software before the FBI did. China asking Apple to censor content from public distribution is bad but it doesn't risk users' privacy and security the way backdoored software would.
Perhaps but I don't recall reading it. In any event it's most likely true.
EDIT: Ah, found it. They didn't testify under oath to that, but did say pretty much the same thing in a letter to their customers. http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/
The New York Times challenged China, now they see what happens. I am pretty sure that in China the goverment is able to access iPhones content one way or the other, even if Apple wouldn't admit it, they have to comply with the local laws.
Judging the complete and utter BS the NY Times spews out I think Apple should pull it from the US store too. I can see why China doesn't want it in their store.
You, and the three people who upvoted you (as of the time of writing), clearly fall into the category of "the ignorant are ignorant of their ignorance."
While I may not agree with some of the opinion pieces on the NYTimes, their reporting is very factually solid and if they make a mistake in their reporting they are very quick to have an ombudsman investigate and publish an independent response. Don't think that anyone has shown up and fired a gun off at a pizza restaurant based on fake news articles in the NYTimes.
While I may not agree with some of the opinion pieces on the NYTimes, their reporting is very factually solid and if they make a mistake in their reporting they are very quick to have an ombudsman investigate and publish an independent response. Don't think that anyone has shown up and fired a gun off at a pizza restaurant based on fake news articles in the NYTimes.
It's truly sad to sad to see what people's standards for credible information have become, especially when they're fed by the likes of Breitbart- and Buzzfeed.
As you say, the NYT -- as does any credible news outlet -- gets some things wrong, but for the most part, their reporting (as is the reporting in the WSJ, The Economist, The Guardian, and Washington Post) is superbly fact-driven. Do they all have agendas? Of course. Does that sometimes distort the reporting? You bet (e.g., NYT and the UVA/Rolling Stone case; WSJ and the Clinton Whitewater deals; The Guardian and their reporting on Apple; The Economist and their bias towards free borders and globalization). But I'll take any one of them, any day, over the utter trash that proliferates and caters to the ignorati, especially online.
Judging the complete and utter BS the NY Times spews out I think Apple should pull it from the US store too. I can see why China doesn't want it in their store.
You, and the three people who upvoted you (as of the time of writing), clearly fall into the category of "the ignorant are ignorant of their ignorance."
While I may not agree with some of the opinion pieces on the NYTimes, their reporting is very factually solid and if they make a mistake in their reporting they are very quick to have an ombudsman investigate and publish an independent response. Don't think that anyone has shown up and fired a gun off at a pizza restaurant based on fake news articles in the NYTimes.
Not sure if physically attacking and beating Trump supporters are in the same realm, but more harm was actually done in those many documented cases. Individuals are still responsible for acts of violence they choose to commit, no matter which "news source" they credit (be it Breitbart, NY Times, Huffington Post, CNN or whatever) for their ignorance.
...I find a bit baffling. Not sure what I said to warrant a personal attack. And if it wasn't meant as a personal attack, I apologize in advance.
It was not meant in the least as a personal attack. Not in the least. I was replying to a group of people that made the outlandishly ignorant claim that a century-and-a-half old, globally respected, carefully (as best as they can) fact-checked, no-drama, consequential, ombudsman-driven publication like the NYT could be so casually dismissed as a bunch of "liars." As I recall, you quoted and upvoted that post. In any event, looks like it has all been removed, so not only can someone not follow the thread, it's all moot.
As an aside and regardless of my politics or beliefs, my post on this topic would have been identical if this blog was about the WSJ or The Economist, both right of center publications, rather than the NYT.
...I find a bit baffling. Not sure what I said to warrant a personal attack. And if it wasn't meant as a personal attack, I apologize in advance.
It was not meant in the least as a personal attack. Not in the least. I was replying to a group of people that made the outlandishly ignorant claim that a century-and-a-half old, globally respected, carefully (as best as they can) fact-checked, no-drama, consequential, ombudsman-driven publication like the NYT could be so casually dismissed as a bunch of "liars." As I recall, you quoted and upvoted that post. In any event, looks like it has all been removed, so not only can someone not follow the thread, it's all moot.
As an aside and regardless of my politics or beliefs, my post on this topic would have been identical if this blog was about the WSJ or The Economist, both right of center publications, rather than the NYT.
Comments
I think the reason it bothers some (including me) is Tim Cook talks about Apple's commitment to human rights yet has he ever spoken out about abuses in China? It's easy to do it in the United States where there really are no consequences. But are there any examples where Apple hasn't bent over a backwards not to upset Chinese government?
what I find nauseating is all the US companies that in the midst of the healthiest economic boom moved all their manufacturing to China to begin with in the hopes of selling to a large market essentially killing the US economy.
Labor may be cheaper, but you've essentially given up all your trade secrets because the Chinese government doesn't protect foreign investment. Insiders rip off Apple, beat Apple to the market with a cheap knock off product, and then sue Apple for knocking off their knock off products. Crazy. Further, unlike in the US, the Chinese heavily favors local companies and makes it very difficult for companies like Apple to compete.
Further, many of the Chinese manufacturers who manufacture US products manufacture cheaper knock offs or outright counterfeits essentially using their insider status to effectively compete with their US customers.
Back in the US, Amazon knowingly sells Chinese counterfeit products further displacing US companies.
Meanwhile, the Chinese benefit and the US economy suffers so much so that so many people were desperate enough to find it necessary to vote for somebody like Donald Trump for President.
I find that nauseating.
In China Apple was legally required to comply. Apple had to shut down its book store in China for carrying books in Hong Kong the Chinese government didn't like. Not complying could have made Apple shut its entire App Store, perhaps require it to cease sales of phones, expose executives to jail, and maybe effect its Chinese manufacturing. Essentially it could potentially put Apple out of business.
EDIT: Ah, found it. They didn't testify under oath to that, but did say pretty much the same thing in a letter to their customers.
http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/
As you say, the NYT -- as does any credible news outlet -- gets some things wrong, but for the most part, their reporting (as is the reporting in the WSJ, The Economist, The Guardian, and Washington Post) is superbly fact-driven. Do they all have agendas? Of course. Does that sometimes distort the reporting? You bet (e.g., NYT and the UVA/Rolling Stone case; WSJ and the Clinton Whitewater deals; The Guardian and their reporting on Apple; The Economist and their bias towards free borders and globalization). But I'll take any one of them, any day, over the utter trash that proliferates and caters to the ignorati, especially online.
Also, the original post containing this:
...I find a bit baffling. Not sure what I said to warrant a personal attack. And if it wasn't meant as a personal attack, I apologize in advance.
As an aside and regardless of my politics or beliefs, my post on this topic would have been identical if this blog was about the WSJ or The Economist, both right of center publications, rather than the NYT.